GTA5Cheats investigates whether the above message is a possibility for Xbox 360 owners of GTA V and looks at some of the potential solutions given the limited data capacity of DVD9 discs.
I'm cool with switching discs for RPGs, it's what I grew up having to do... Any other game type feels weird to swap discs on. Microsoft pretty much has to go with the blu-ray format for next-gen.
True, I think FFVII back in the day was like 4 discs. Didn't kill it for me. Blu-ray is a certainty for the next Xbox!
FFVII was 3 discs, FFVIII and FFIX were 4 a piece. I actually liked switching discs on RPGs. It gave a real sense of progression. :]
It's a great workout for 360 owners... Make sure to take some protein shakes after this P90 Swapping Disc cardio
Bluray not needed. joke
But then again, the PS1 days were quite a while ago.
That's because the capacity at that time (usually for FMV sequences) were needed. With the standard blu-ray such issues were immediately abated. If the DVD was available on the PSX era, I doubt anybody would have this argument. After all, who has heard of a multi-DVD game on the PS2 era?
I didn't mind changing discs on an RPG. But I remember having to do so on Grand theft auto 3? was a pain in the ass having to swap discs when you went to the final island and when you left the island.
@DigitalAnalog Star Ocean 3: Till the End of Time had 2 disc.
Dont Forget Sony owns the patent for blu-ray, which means microsoft would have to pay sony royalites if they choose to use blu-ray. Also they need sony's permission to use blu-ray and sony can say no.
No, the Blu-Ray Disc Association is the developer and licensor of Blu-Ray technology. The BDA is a consortium of several different companies. Granted, Sony is a part of the BDA, but they are not the sole controlling party.
If 360 owners don't mind, then it doesn't matter. Just like cross game chat doesn't matter to PS3 owners. If it doesn't matter to the owners, then it shouldn't matter to the detractors.
Gotta love blu-ray, the last game i can remember having to swap out disc was The Legend of Dragoon(loved that game) which was 4 discs.
Switching disks did give a sense of progression, it felt like you had just completed a 'chapter' of the game or something, and you where about to play the sequel. Remember Squall getting stabbed through the chest then 'switch disk' and wake up in a prison? Remember Cloud handing Seph the black materia and **** going down? Still, that is an old trope I think from a different era. Like game manuals...it's just nostalgic now instead of actually being useful.
Xbox really doesn't want to do that, since a share of every Blu-Ray disc gets sent right to Sony, since they have ownership. But maybe Microsoft will find a way around it? Either way, I'm definitely getting this on the Ps3, staying true to the exclusivity that used to be GTA and Playstation. Plus I won't have to change discs :3
And dvd does not? Just asking I'm not sure.. I know they also help to develope dvd.
Nah I get that they didn't want to switch to Blu-ray because of Sony. Though they're kind of backed into a corner now. They pretty much have to go with Blu-ray at this point. They tried HD DVDs and that didn't work out. Trying to have a new format just won't do now.
You act like Microsoft and Sony are mortal enemies and never do business together. You realize that there are Sony products and services on Xbox 360 right now, right?
but as a data format it could be beneficial for MS. think about it...if Ms went with the hddvd for games it would satisfy two things. a higher capacity format for developers and a format that isnt common enough to have to worry about piracy. HDDVD failed as a movie format but it is still a viable data format due to its capacity and use of the same blue laser as bluray. And technically it isnt a new format.
@darthv Even if they took that path (which I always assumed they already did) they would still be short on space. Assuming game files get bigger next gen it would continue to be a problem. Blu ray stores between 25-50gb and hddvd maxes out at 30. 30gb is plentyyy this gen but I imagine that changes next gen with better physics, AI, textures ect. Also a selling point for the ps3 was that it was the cheapest blu ray player when it came out. Prices have dropped a lot but it would certainly still add value to the next xbox
So what? As if Sony doesn't do the same thing. Walk into a Sony store at your mall or in the city and what will see everywhere on their laptops? Windows 8 if it means getting your customers the best possible expirence company's will bite the bullet, and I'm sure Microsoft will do the same or be bashed for having a next gen console that needs 4 discs to run one game.
Microsoft supports digital versions of all of R-Star's games. I might wait a few months extra for a 1080p 60 fps collection next gen. that is if backwards compatibly isn't announced by the next 2 weeks.
@inmusicutrust, Physical size Single layer Dual layer 12 cm, single sided 15 GB 30 GB 12 cm, double sided 30 GB 60 GB 8 cm, single sided 4.7 GB 9.4 GB 8 cm, double sided 9.4 GB 18.8 GB http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... HDDVD can have up to 60GB. With further revisions I am sure they can get higher. Just as Blu Ray can now hold more than 100GB. Standard disc size, XL 4 layer 128.0GB http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... Not saying MS should use HDVD, but it would be a viable option.
@peoplewhoaretalkingaboutHDDVD S HDDVD is dead. Period. it's not a "viable option^"
@FragMn I really don't know much about all this so sorry if I'm wrong but if its dual sided they still need to switch discs so it's essentially the same as having two discs. Thus it has 30gb valuable to the player. More than that and they have to change disc still even if that only means flipping the disc. Dunno if I'm right on that or if they can put in a reader on both sides of the disc somehow
Microsoft didnt develop DVD, either. Think on that and get back to me.
They wont care. They need to get Blu-ray or Xbox 720 is dead out of the box.
@SoundGamer Someone who actually has a clue. People act like MS won't use Blu-Ray because Sony helped make it. Look at Sony Viao laptops they all use Windows, and guess what Sony pays MS to put Windows on that laptop.
Grand Theft Auto was never, at any point a PlayStation exclusive.
@darthv72 You're completely right. And the fact is that HD DVD didn't really "Lose", they were out spent by the blu ray disc association when they went to warner and bought their exclusivity for $500 million. BUT, the fact is that BD AND any other format on the market now is already obsolete. The 6tb Holographic Versatile Disc ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... has been around for over 5 years but no one is developing it for mass production for some reason. Probably because streaming and Digital distribution will kill physical media before a new format can gain a foothold. but it is what it is. LOL
I think going BD would be the simplest solution. If Microsoft wants a 1 box solution as it will also play BD movies. However, the dual sided thing gives another option. If they could design the Nextbox to read from both sides simultaneously then they could essentially double the read speed of the disks negating the need to install data to the HDD. This would be cool also if Sony did this for the PS4 as that seems to be a limiting factor.
@Gamer Muzz i think you need to learn what the word obsolete means. Yes better products do exist but they aren't cost effective or even required for any public use and won't be for quite a while.
@travel guy, not having a bluray drave at all is more likely than not having an hdd, MS wants to sell games online(because you don't have to pay to produce the disks/manual s etc and also MS becames the publisher so they make even more money. Also theres dlc too. Anyway MS may still go with dvd and stick everything on the hdd like a pc or maybe even its own version of bluray for piracy reasons and I
Have us humans gotten so lazy to where it's now soooo difficult to swap a disc? Gee wizz I remember the 4 disc Final Fantasy games. There's always something to argue about on this site I swear. If it was all on one disc, we'd have articles like "One Disc? Are they leaving out features for GTA5"?
the year is 2013. if we still have to swap discs in this futuristic day and age then we have felled our ancestor and dont deserve to carry on the human species name.
Linear RPG =/= Open World Action. Although it was epic in FFVIII , the disk art was also cool.
cool very cool.. i love the disc changing bring but memories of my young day playing Final fantsay 7 disc and it show if your near the end of the game or half way
At that time we didn't have the choice but now ps3 gives us choice and when it comes to choice you have to choose wisely otherwise you will be considered dumb.
Who needs Kinect? Just release MGS4 on the 360. Konami: Metal Gear Solid 4 on the 360 will give you a workout. Seven discs! Konami: But if you do happen to have Kinect, you can now crawl and roll around on the ground for advanced stealth gameplay.
Hahh true. I wonder how MGS4 would work on 360. Impossible I think. 7 is too much.
If MS isn't using disks with high capacity next gen than all 3rd party publishers should drop support Whether people want to admit it or not but xbox360 held back many games because of its disk space, no need to reply to me saying how it is when it is It's already rumored that next Xbox uses blu ray so I hope that's true, MS made a mistake this current gen by not using a better disk format
I remember having 5 (or was it 6?) discs on my PC to play the original Baldurs Gate.
Switching discs in a game like an RPG is one thing, where disc swapping can happen between levels. Swapping when it actually interrupts your gameplay in an open world, that's different. That really will crap on the experience, as you'll feel limited to the city you're in rather than feel like you have the ability to roam freely. kinda kills the whole sandbox vibe.
Imagine going to airport in los santos flying to another area * insert disc 3 * , then when you arrive realize you need to go back ... Im sure the map wouldnt work like that but still horrifying thought
If anything they would just split the story dialog and event scripting between discs, and have the entire world map on each disc. The problem with that is that you require a lot more space on each disc, meaning you could be looking at 3+ discs instead of just two, depending on the size of the game.
The story dialogue really doesn't have that large of a memory footprint though. You can compress MP3 stream to remain at near-CD quality and still only take up about 1MB per minute of audio. We're not talking about thousands of minutes of audio being used for storyline parts. It's all the textures that make up that open world that would have trouble fitting onto the disc. GTA has never really used FMV, opting for in-game cinematics instead, so that isn't an issue. The scripting is just a bunch of animations, which take up even less room on disc than the audio does. That all runs off the euphoria middleware, probably along with some mocap data. I just don't see that adding up to enough to warrant being put on an extra disc. I really don't think trimming the storyline audio and scripting to be on different discs while keeping the entire world map on one disc is going to free up enough space to do what they need to do. There's 2 most likely scenarios in my head right now. 1: They simply design the game world to be small enough to fit on one disc, and put extra content like multiplayer, maybe certain vehicles, and areas that you are not allowed to freely fly to at any time on the other disc(s). 2: They chop up the entire game world onto multiple discs and require a HDD install to play the game.
Of course they will. The Wii U did and they are also a Sony competitor. There's no other viable option (no HDDVD is NOT a viable option, it's a dead and buried format)
@busytoad Sony does not own the patent for blu-ray, Blu-ray tech is controlled by the Blu-ray Disc Association which includes Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, and Samsung. MS can just will just end up going through one of the other companies. But yes they will have to pay a licensing fee to the Association which Sony is a part of. Sony can not say "NOPE SORRY MS, NO BLU-RAY for you" MS just has to get the tech from LG, Samsung ETC
Did RDR take up
Original RDR was one disc I think, GOTY was two discs. Don't have the exact data sizes though I'm afraid (suppose torrent sites would know).
I don't have the exact numbers...
I beleive the RDR was originally around 6-7GB on a single DVD.
After the numberous DLCs, I think they added more than 2-3GBs.
Making the final GOTY edition close to 10GB.
This just from rough recollection.
According to the PS store RDR is 8368 MB and GTA4 was 10.3 GB.
Well sucks for them but what can you do.... I'm glad if it's true because I know that Rockstar hasn't dumbed down GTAV for gamers who have a PS3 or own both consoles.
LA Noire on the 360 was 3 discs , therefore GTA V on 4-6 discs on the 360 isn't that unrealistic.
It is ridiculous though. Thank god for blu-ray. That's all I can say.
Yea, it's a bit much. But for people who only own a 360, they have no choice if they want to play the game. Suck for them, but it's worth it if you want to play it.
Agreed. @Maria "LA Noire on the 360 was 3 discs" Thanks to a CRAAAAZY amount of compression. LA Noire was actually supposed to have a WHOPPING SIX DISCS. lol http://www.computerandvideo... Seems like when you (actually know how) and go ALL out on developing solely for PS3. Game data gets HUGE, (if first party games are anything to go by as well).
Part of that large file size is also due to the fact that BD games do not need to be compressed, which speeds up loading time. Unfortunately this is offset by the fact that it takes longer to load from a blu-ray disc. It also allows the developer to store multiple languages on the disc so they don't have to press several configurations before shipping worldwide. Not saying that PS3 exclusive games aren't actually larger in size, just that it's not always about content.
as long as we'll be able to install it to the hard drive and only use one disc, I'll be ok with it. Although, Microsoft probably won't allow that...
Don't Microsoft charge a fee if you use 4 disc? I read that somewhere just cant remember.
I thought they charged a fee for each extra disc.
Correct. Any game up to 3 discs there is no extra charge. Once you have to use 4 discs MS charges a fee, its why you see devs trying to get the games down to 3 discs with heavy compression (FFXIII, L.A Noire, etc....)
@Simon I think you're right, 4 discs is the max..I remember reading that MS charges a royalty fee on every disc after that. Still, just install a multi disc game to your HDD, less of a hassle and saves the laser from overuse. I just wish Sony would allow games to be fully installed to the HDD and not just install data.
Hopefully 4 of them are install discs and the other 2 are story mode and multiplayer x)
L.A Noire was only massive due to the facial tech they used, the faces were basically 360° video files.(look up some of the tech videos) Although most games nowadays use real time cutscenes (scripted real time events/movements with cinematic camera angles) in terms of disc usage, Video files>Sound files>Map files map files aren't even that big... Thats why skyrim is only 3.8gig install on 360 (no patches or dlc) However i wouldn't be surprised if GTAV is on 2 discs
Skyrim is only 3.8 GB because it is all compressed on the HD. It also uses a very different system for generating a lot of what you see in game, which is why it doesn't take up much space. GTAIV, uncompressed on the PC, is over 14 GB. That's just for the base game, not including stuff for EfLC.
LA Noire was 3 discs simply because of the facial animations.
I like what Halo 4 did, one disc for install and one disc for playing
seems to be the most logical choice.
That would be assuming the game is under a certain GB. If the game is gonna be 40, 45 GB then you are still gonna need more than 2 discs.