UK developer talks to PSU about Sony's next-gen console.
well how about PS2 backwards compatiblity? is that difficult because i have alot more PS2 games than PS3.
If ps3 systems required the emotion chip for bc do you think they will include it in a ps4? My guess would be either gakai or more digital downloads on ps4.
i'll just say this, if ps4 doesn't come with backward compatibility they can say bye-bye to a lot of their sales. i'd still buy one probably but it'd depend on their launch titles. i usually sell my current-gen systems when i upgrade to a next-gen system.
If it's a hardware issue, just design the PS4 where the PS3 can piggyback on top of the console and you can network them together, and use the PS3 hardware to play PS3 games using the PS4 interface... it's not that F'n difficult. You just have to have protocols so they can communicate. Sure, it's not the ideal situation, but it's better tan nothing, or rebuying digital copies of the games you already own.
They should make a system inwhich Sony followers through the years could somehow get something back when purchasing the new PS4. For example: I've owned PS3 since launch and bought numerous games and earned lots of trophies. Maybe those who earn trophies or set ammount of platinums can get free PS3 digital games as return when buying the new console on launch. Would be hell of a way to market the new console for PS3 owners.
@guitarded. That sounds like an excellent idea. Then you could always have the option of using either disc drive too. Two game choices or a bluray movie. The hard drive memory could be combined too.
"i'll just say this, if ps4 doesn't come with backward compatibility they can say bye-bye to a lot of their sales." I don't agree with that comment at all. In the past it was important but now it isn't. That one feature adds a lot to the cost of the console. Are you willing to pay from $50 to $100 extra just for that feature? Maybe Sony can have two models, one with PS3 mode and one without.
Id been saying it all along, next consoles wont be getting BC. Anyone looking to build a library, should be getting their games on the PC. I currently own over 150 games on Steam. Not a worry in the world about games not working. Hell I could emulate any console game in history (aside the PS3 and Xbox 360). @people saying they can keep their PS3 Well are you going to keep rebuying PS3 and PS2? also consider the amount of space it wastes.
@BrianC6234 I disagree, backwards compatibility is even more important these days thanks to the wealth of digital content that people purchase. Besides, the PS3 has a lot of quality games that we will probably never see sequels to such as Starhawk, Twisted Metal and Wipeout HD. This is thanks to the developers either being shut down by Sony (Sony Liverpool) or abandoning home console development to work on mobile games (Lightbox Interactive and Eat Sleep Play). I want to continue playing these games on the PS4 because the chances of them ever receiving sequels is pretty much zero. In the case of Wipeout HD, that's a digital purchase on my PlayStation Network account and if I'm using it on the PS4 why should I have to say goodbye to all the digital content that I've purchased? If I buy digital content on other services (say the Apple store) I don't lose access to that content when I upgrade hardware. So why should I lose all of my PSN content because I'm upgrading from a PS3 to a PS4? It goes against established trends and service that's expected with the sale of digital content. Besides, a lot of people can only afford to buy new consoles with the money they've received from either selling or trading in their old one.
... I'll probably switch over to Steam, cause I'm fed up with losing a complete library of games once my console breaks down and they're not playable on the next-gen console I bought.
@guitarded77 That is probably the dumbest thing I've read this week.
@ konnerbllb Care to elaborate genius? Since you have a much better idea.
Not true. The emotion engine can be emulated. It's not required. The European backwards compatible PS3s never had the emotion engine, neither does my PC which can run Kingdom Hearts, and just about any PS2 game perfectly through an emulator.
I'd pay up to $350 extra for a backwards compatible model. And I'm a student.
I'd actually guess that PS2 emulation will be feasible, the problem is that games could need support in the official emulator (like xbox games on the 360). Sony's tradition of complex hardware architectures makes emulation require more processing power (in general), the PS3's atypical architecture makes emulation awkward because of it's very split CPU resources into different cores which require specific application design (the OP-Codes to be run by the emulator have to be linear, so having 7 SPUs doesn't apply well to PS2 emulation) - no doubt the PS4 will either be able to brute force emulation primarily on one core it will have architecture very similar to PCs. The issue here isn't hardware (except for PS3 emulation) but man hours in Sony's development teams - the likely route would indeed be for them to use gakai for PS2 as well as PS3 games. Then again, they could do what they did with the PS3 and have the hardware embedded within the system. source: I've programmed for the PS1, PS2 and PS3. (it was in a university course and not within the industry, finger's crossed though)
I am cool with the Gaikai idea as long as we do not have repay to play our already owned PS2 And PS3 games.
I dont plan to throw my ps3 away, and after ps4 launches I intend to play ps4 games
and when your ps3 dies you're going to buy another one?
Well Sony will continue to make the PS3 for quite some time yet, you can still buy a brand new PS2 after more than decade. And the PS3 will likely be below $150 by the time the PS4 launches and will only go down in price.
"I dont plan to throw my ps3 away" That is a pretty retarded thing to say. You still hanging on to your PS2 as well? When PS3 was half way into its cycle people kept saying I have a PS2 so dont need BC (Sony defence force). So question is are they going to keep rebuying the PS2 and PS3. Also are they going to have 3 consoles sitting on their TV sets just so they can have all the BC. Also what happens when 4K tvs are out? PS2 already looks a jaggy mess on 1080p tvs, PS3 will look like a mess on 4k TVs. Even if PS4 did play those old console games PS2 and PS3 games running on PS4 would still be running at low res, which will look like a mess on 4K tvs.
... and if that happens 2 years from now, that's usually isn't a big problem, but when it happens 10 years from now, it IS a problem, cause it will be hard to find a new console. I remember my Xbox breaking down when the 360 had JUST arrived, and MS had already stopped manufactoring the old Xbox and they couldn't be found in shops here anymore, so I had to buy a 2nd hand Xbox, which had a faulty discdrive.
I've said it before, I'd pay extra if they included a version that had 100% BC in the system through hardware. May not be possible given the vastly different architectures of each PS, but would still be pretty cool to have it all in one place for the few hundred PS1, PS2, and PS3 titles that I have.
This one reason why I loved my PS3. I have been able games across all 3 PlayStation generations. Shoot, I only just played Metal Gear Solid this generation when they were about to release MGS4. I finally understood what I had been missing out on. I gripe about this a lot on N4G, but I hope some kind of system arises that ensures games don't have an effective expiration date. PC games, as long as the hardware meets the minimum, can play practically any game ever produced. This unfortunately is inherently much more difficult to achieve with the closed console systems. I just don't want games to eventually become unplayable because either the system has broken or the game is damaged. Digital may provide solutions, but also has its thorns.
PS4 WILL have backwards compatibility. How? http://ps3ultraslim.com/new... Combo chip. What else is needed for it?
Basically, You would need a whole PS3 inside the PS4...which basically raises the cost by more than $150. That's a problem. (Just wanted to add that the specific Nvida RSX GPU isn't absolutely necessary for B/C. It could be done with an AMD GPU with proper PS3 emulation subset protocols.....so that could help costs a little bit)
also Sony should just make a more expensive model with the ability to play PS1, PS2, PS3, PS4 Games & a cheaper model that justs plays PS4 games. An if they want to save money just make the expensive model a limited production run. i don't mind shelling out a couple more hundred bucks and have the ability to play all those games on one system. seems worth it imo, what does everyone else think?
I feel the same. I'd be willing to pay extra for a PS4 that has a Cell processor inside it to allow for backwards compatibility. I have no intentions of having both a PS3 and a PS4 under my TV, and if the PS4 is not backwards compatible then Sony will miss out on a sale at launch. Besides, console launches are always only accompanied by one or two decent games, and the first year always sees a shortage of decent games. If I can't continue playing PS3 games that I enjoy during this time, then why switch to an expensive console with a small lineup of worthwhile releases? I'd wait for a price drop.
Without backwards compatibility theyll miss out on my sale as well.
This will be a supply / demand problem. Everyone wants something like this till they see what the price is. Lets say a PS4 cost 350 (going off the Wii U), how many people are going to plop down lets say 550 just to play older games? These editions most likely won't sell and will go on clearance. At some point they will go out of production and cost less than the standard system and we would be back to where we started. Would be a lot cheaper to offer digital downloads. Sucks rebuying what I already own, but it might be cheaper in the long run.
I get what your saying, however there are probably quite a few people who would pay extra. $200 does seem a bit extreme though. PS1 could be achieved through software, and likely already will be, PS2 needs the emotion engine which is likely extremely cheap to produce, and the Cell chip isn't terribly expensive for them to produce anymore either. There may be heat issues though so it's hard to say. I'd say it would cost a lot more to have to rebuy those games for some of us, and I likely wouldn't rebuy most of them even if they were cheap because I don't really care for digital. However, that whole rebuying thing is why we probably won't see complete BC in the PS4. Sony and the original publishers would make a lot more money by reselling those titles as "classics" in digital form. Cloud may be an option however, if I can play them for free over the cloud by putting in my original disc, then I see that as a somewhat viable, although less than ideal, alternative.
You see the thing is you are low balling it the next ps will cost 400 at its lowest without any bells and whistles one with backwards compatibility would easily run for 250 more dollars and here's the kicker both ways ( any of the speculated specs are to be believed) Sony would still be selling at a loss
@Smashman I agree, but my point was more so... 550 is more than an iPad and a lot of money. While the real figure would likely be more, 550 is probably more than most people would pay regardless.
why not just make all ps1,ps2,ps3 game on every device with gaikai when ps4 comes out. This would be cool.
"why not just make all ps1,ps2,ps3 game on every device with gaikai when ps4 comes out." LOL you make it sound like it's soooo easy to do. Sony isn't even close to having every PS1 game on PSN, much less PS2/PS3 games. SOME games will be available via cloud, but not all. As for me, I'll just keep my 60GB around when I get a PS4. No problem.
Wow you really do live up to youre name logicwin, most people don't even realize they can keep their current system if they want to play old games.
Not everyone has enough HDMI inputs on their TV's to accommodate more equipment to be added.... Keeping older gen consoles hooked up to a TV may not be a feasible idea when looking for room to add the new next gen consoles. I think not having BC is a serious concern going into next gen. On a side note, I read that the new 720 will be using blu-ray...how will that work for BC 360 games? Sony and MS better figure this out, I for one won't be a happy next gen console buyer if there is no BC on either of the new next gen consoles.
@Lvl_up_gamer The 720 using bluray is not relevant to backwards compatibility since bluray drives read DVDs just fine. And if you run out of HDMI ports there are standalone HDMI switches, or better yet get an AV receiver and add surround sound. Even the cheapest AV receiver is better than the built in sound in a TV.
@ lvlup hdmi is one cable get off ur ass and change it like us old folks used to do
HD Collections for PS4 ;)
I do love me some HD remakes.:) However less than 1% of games actually receive them. For instance we're never likely to see a Final Fantasy 7/8/9 or Xenosaga HD remake.
but how about ps3? Arent they already HD? It doesn't make any sense to called them HD remake now would it :D
I play my PS1 games on my PS1, my PS2 games on my PS2 and my PS3 games on my PS3 so I've never had the need for backwards compatiblity.
Agree. I want my next gen console to focus on future games not the past. I can keep my older systems if I want to play those games. What a waste of time and resources.
You are the only PS3 person I know that STILL uses a PS1 to play games. I stopped playing my PS1 the moment I got a PS2 because of its BC.
I haven't used it for a long time, the last thing I played on it was Broken Sword and Command & Conquer I use it because my PS1 mouse never worked on the PS2. I still have a working Atari Lynx too. Wow lost of Disagrees didn't know so many people are offended by me keeping my old systems. Never said this is the way to go just saying its what I do.
Sony has patented a way to use multicore CPU architecture to emulate the Cell. With rumored APU and discreet GPU (rumored 8Series AMD ) I dont see how it would be impossible. Difficult, yes. Impossible, no.
Difficulty; no Marketing strategy; yes They're called "PS3 Classics" Prepare the lubes.
TemplarDante said, "Sony has patented a way to use multicore CPU architecture to emulate the Cell. With rumored APU and discreet GPU (rumored 8Series AMD ) I dont see how it would be impossible. " _____________________________ ________________ This must be brand new information, because the BEYOND3d guys last year said it wasn't possible at this time. . . . "Nothing currently available would likely be able to emulate the CELL with any reasonable performance... Without SPEs you're going to have a very hard time getting the kind of throughput they can achieve on highly optimized, vectorized code, even on some of the fastest desktop CPUs " http://forum.beyond3d.com/s... . . . . . . So if this is new information, Can you have a link for this please? If you can, I'll post it to the BEYOND3d forums. Thank you.
Although it would be handy to be able to play PS3 games on the PS4, I don't mind keeping the PS3 for that purpose.
that's not good. this confirm that the PS4 will not use a new version of the Cell.. instead it will probabily use the rumoured AMD.... F**K
I love the cell and all, loads of raw horsepower, but did you not hear the bitching the devs did this gen? They need a tuned drift car for a drift track of a PS4.. What they dont need is a American muscle car on a drift track. 800Hp without devs using it is useless. Next gen,the emphasis is powerful GPU, I dont mind 4AMD Steamroller cores and a 2Teraflop AMD GPU. With console level optimisation... just imagine... GTA 6 !
Not that I disagree, but if you can do the same with that American musclecar that you can do with a drift-tuned vehicle, it essentially proves you to be a better driver. And because the musclecar has more power, you've got the potential to put up better lap times if you manage that power correctly. Of course, it takes familiarity with such a beast, and not just a half-assed effort, but the returns can be quite impressive. Which is essentially what we have with the 360 and PS3. Of course, it still boils down to developers being able to USE that power correctly. Otherwise, we get what multiplat devs give us: a timid effort that's about the same as what they'd have gotten in the drift car.
Oh no! It's gonna be easier for the devs to make games! That's so bad!
it will be a stupid move not to have backwards compatibility
no BC? wow Sony once again will make all their fans buy the game twice if they want to play it in their new system. and all of the sony fans will be fine with this and defend their beloved comopany anyways. let me guess "if you want to play playstation3 games then keep your playsation3 hooked up" also, "if you want to play playstation 2 games then keep your playsation 2 hooked up you know what, i would prefer to play the games in one machine, and not have so much clutter thank you. this is bull!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am a game collector who enjoys playing older games from time to time, and unlike all of the sony fans, i prefer to only buy the game ONCE!!!!!!!!! it is amazing to me that all of you sony fans complain about paying a one year 60 dollar online fee to play xbox live, but have no problem buying sony games more than once. most of you guys here at N4G are a bunch of appologists and blind supporters of anything sony. All gamers should demand full BC in all of their systems.
"I am a game collector who enjoys playing older games from time to time, and unlike all of the sony fans, i prefer to only buy the game ONCE!!!!!!!!! " If you're a 'game collector' why don't you have the previous consoles anymore? Why didn't you buy the BC PS3 when you had the chance, or buy one right now on Ebay? Why do only 'Sony fans' buy HD collections when they are also available on Xbox and PC? Ever wondered why you even have one bubble left?
Unfortunately, such preposition doesn't bode well for "closed" consoles. Understand that every re-iteration would have very different sets of graphic cards, new API's and the like. The only way to achieve true BC is to add the original chip that can run the BC games. Probably why the Wii had the best BC is due to the fact that the hardware is merely an "overclocked" version of the GC. But notice you don't get the BC for that on the Wii-U? Imagine the case with a completely different architecture from the PS3 to the rumored off-shelf cards of the PS4. No.. it's either cloud gaming or "1080p/60fps enhanced editions" incoming to replay old games.
Nope, BC is really unnecessary. My PS3 is exploding the moment I get home with my PS4. Besides, I'm sure the vast majority of people would not use BC extensively. I didnt not play PS2 games on my PS3 and I'm not going to play Wii games on my Wii U (because Im buying Wii U games for it).
That's really the crux of the situation. While there is quite a vocal cry for BC the sad fact is that most people just want the newest and shiniest thing. I love BC, and would never give up my fat PS3 because it has it all in there(unless the PS4 has it all in there also). There's just more profit in re-releasing the games as remakes or collections than there is in satisfying a vocal minority in gaming. The fact most of these collections have done well this generation just means that the final nail is in the coffin for complete BC.
and M$ f***d us all thy just killed xbox1
One certainly cant rule out literally having the CELL in the PS4 for BC... afterall, its what Msft is doing in the next Xbox.. their going to have the Tri-core in the just for BC.
hump well that will hurt sales when the PS4 releases. A huge key point in sales next gen is going to be backward compatibility of both PSN games and Disc releases. Same with xbox. Nintendo already has an edge with all Wii games being playable on WiiU just like they did with Gamecube on Wii. A lot of people will not want to buy a new system with a large Ps3 collection and zero guarantee of playing it on the new system. Yes people could keep the old generation but the fact of the matter is most hose holds trade in the old for the new and only the few dedicated gamers keep all the old things. Hopefully this isn't true because Sony was already hurt this gen by taking backward compatibility away from gamers. The Ps2 games on PSN is dead with the water with no support from Sony and PSone games are well supported but with no disc backward compatibility it makes me nervous all the games I bought on PSN for PS3 won't go to the PS4. Common Sony show the world you can still rock the gaming industry next gen.
Are you mad because you had a huge DVD collection then had to switch to blu ray? If you want to play old games, keep your old system. Simple as that. It would be nice but Sony doesn't have to do it.
All blu ray players are backwards compatible with DVDs, the PS3 being a prime example of this. So unfortunately your comparison holds no weight.
^ what jimbobwahey said Blu-ray players are all backward compatible with DVDs and DVDS are still a very valid method of watching movies (though I don't prefer it). You clearly didn't read what I said, dedicated gamers such as myself and I'm guessing you will keep their ps3, 360, wii, whatever. However that isn't the case with 95% of people who play games will probably trade in their old system for the new one when it comes out especially because places like gamestop will do a trade promotion. backward compatibility is very much needed and will be a huge factor next gen. No one is going to want to spend 500-600 bucks on a new system without the guarantee of all their PSN titles and games being able to play on the next gen system. Your a fool to think otherwise.
Agree with summons once the next playstation is released my ps3 will be accumulating dust in the closet so ill probably sell it so backwards compatibility is a must for me even if I have to pay a bit more
Excited for gaikai and the future of all things playstation. Long live play.
Gaiken is a poor alternative to BC. Have you ever tried gaiken? The graphics are YouTube streaming quality and there's input lag...and of course you'll be paying to play games you already own. You people used to bash onlive which is basically the same as gaiken. Now gaiken is suddenly the greatest thing ever? ...haha smh
Totally agreed. Cloud streaming is bullcrap with the low quality and input lag and lack of ownership. When Gaikai goes kaput so does all your games. I'm sure blinded fanboys will just say "So what, I don't care about my games. They can take them all away if they go belly up, they don't owe me anything. I throw my money away gladly!"
Ignorance is bliss. learn about cloud gaming and input lag. Or pray that Google takes over the Western infrastructure for faster internet.