NowGamer: Ex-BioWare dev, Trent Oster explains how fan negativity could have attributed to Muzyka and Zeschuk's departure.
Mass Effect 3 wasn't nothing compared to the original or even the second one, so it was deserved negativity if you ask me. That said, it was probably EAs fault, not Greg or Ray's, since they wanted to fleece as much as they could out of the series.
It was probably more a combination of things, I'd like to think the Dr's had a thicker skin than that. They're creative people, they must have had negative feedback before.
... didn't they have a failed female novel-writer that was responsible for that!? Anyway, I just picked up Mass Effect 2 this week for PS3. I'm hoping I'll like that, cause I stopped about halfway through the first game.
@yi long It was a combination of things. People find it easier to single some one out as the course of the problem Most people attacked Casey Hudson and the writer. Some people made theories that they shut out the rest of bioware and forced this ending to be made, when in reality everyone at bioware was fine with it. So when people reacted it effected everyone there Another problem was how fans reacted. We all know about that shitstorm with the cupcakes, the lawsuits, etc More people just kept insulting them, singling people out and just acting like asshats, without telling bioware what they wanted to see, and those people outnumber those with legit criticism. Most people complained about the dlc and the ending rather than actual things that would have improved the game I guess the doc couldn't take more, because when you get that much hate from three games in a row they probably just gave up
EA/Bioware ruined the Mass Effect franchise by being greedy/wanting to attract the shooter crowd
What are you even talking about. The shooter crowd? Mass Effect has been Mass Effect for the past 5 years. The trilogy is and always will be one of my favorite franchises of all time. I'm sure millions around the world would agree with me. Why? Because Mass Effect has always been Mass Effect. We're not talking about Resident Evil here. While people had every right to complain about the original ending to ME3, Bioware did what was necessary and fixed it.....Yet people still complain. What will it take to please you people?
I dont see how it was ruined by shooting . The focus was clear from the get go . They just got rid of the excess baggage that only a few cared about for the franchise . It's not at all similar to Dragon Age going from semi tabletop rpgs to dynasty warriors in two games .
Yi-Long i think you should have wait a little more for the ME trilogy pack
They deserved to receive death threats because the ending of their game wasn't good? Bro it wasn't just negative comments, people turn of them and behaved like maniacs and it was more than just a small vocal group that was sending them death threats. You combine that with all the crazy groups that was attacking them because they put gay and lesbian relationships in their game and you have a pretty big mess.
Yeah, as disappointed as I was with the writing and the ending in the third one, the only monsters here were the fans, I've gotta say.
The needless addition of multi-player clearly sucked away efforts from the single-player. ---12
multiplayer wasnt THAT bad for their first attempt i think,i had fun but yea...much more could have been added if multi was not in
More like selling out and being told to keep smiling for the press , while pretending their games are deeper than jrpgs , was too much for Greg and Ray
And of course you need to mention jrpgs because ONLY this genre is better... And that is also a proof that me 3 is a great game.
You obviously dont even know what i'm talking about . There was an interview where they openly criticized jrpgs and final fantasy in particular and were coming off as very arrogant . ironically they got criticized soon enough for the same things they were discussing in said interviews with me2 and dragon age 2 . And a bit further with me3 .
I think that Bioware games have been dropping in quality for a long time now it's a far cry from the Knights Of The Old Republic/Jade Empire days. Whether that is because of EA or Bioware I'm not really sure.
I don't think it's been "a long time now." I'll admit that Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 3 and SWTOR seemed to be...um....tainted by corporate finger-poking, but up until these last couple of years I still absolutely loved everything they were doing. The first Dragon Age was a GREAT game.
I wasn't too impressed with the first Dragon Age, It was infinitely better than Dragon Age 2 though. It was a good game but I didn't enjoy it like Knights Of The Old Republic (that game was boss) I just thought the graphics really let it down and it annoyed the hell out of me not being able to go in the water and having to go around puddles lol it sounds stupid and probably is but it just really annoyed me. I might give it another chance actually its been a while since I last played it.
What these devs need to realize is that we gamers own them. If we say jump, then jump; end of story. There are no "ifs," "ands," or "buts." Their occupation is to serve us gratefully, regardless of our actions. If that's too much, then too bad. This isn't the job for them.
Harsh but true. The market drives the producers.
You guys are just relentlless. You just don't know when to quit. These developers are humans with feelings not some robots that have no feelings. I don't understand all this rage over a game.
... that has all the potential to be GREAT, yet gets ruined by incompetent decisions, and/or greed, ruining many of what once made it great. Look at Ninja Gaiden 3. Look at the new Splinter Cell games. Look at Tony Hawk. Look at Colin McRae/Dirt. Etc etc. People invest a lot of money and many hours in these franchises, and have a lot of love for them, so OFCOURSE they'll speak out when a developer/publisher starts ruining the franchise.
So if I was disappointed with a game I am allowed to send death threats? (bear in mind that im refering to what the title said as "fan negativity" which isnt limited to criticism of their product). I think that now that its been said that WE are to blame for them leaving Bioware we dont like it. After all gamers can never do wrong right? Itz dem durn corpurationz! The more we use the same excuse the more we believe its true for every situation...
Cry me a frickin' river . Those arent guys that happily were in their corner of the universe making their games with their sweats . At some quite early point , they became very arrogant and public persons . That their mistakes , public speechs and statement , and a failed game project (old republic online) is snowballing and catching on to them enough to wear them out is 100% on them .
Same here man, these comments are exactly part of the reason they left the gaming industry. Just look at the comments bashing them and yet these comments mainly have agrees to them. These guys received death threats and everyone acts like it's no big deal.
Sure why not lump the criticism here with the death threats -_- . That's ridiculous , most people here that have issues with dont even bother doing more than venting HERE , instead of directly contacting and harassing devs and gaming figures . It's even actually healthy for some to vent steam once everywhile , over obsessing over such minor things . If anything , are some of the "let's kumbaya hug" folks even as much fans of Bioware than some of the "whiners" ? Were they all even there for their Black isle/interplay collaboration days or At least the Kotor/jade era ?
Please, go buy a old Bioware gem called Jade Empire, play through that, then play through Mass Effect 3 and see how much the word "RPG" has changed to Bioware's eyes. It's not just about the game, it's the absolute lack of quality that they decide to put into a game, deciding to leave minimal RPG elements in an game that's classified as so. It's a slap to the face for people like I who have been fans of Bioware since the beginning, and the fall of a once great developer will now go down in history as the cause of either greed, lack of care, or EA's death touch.
JE is a really bad example for an RPG. The story was also pretty bad. It was fun and had great characters though.
Every job comes with criticism. You have to deal with it. And on an unrelated note, EA sucks
@steve30x If someone expects me to pay for something, and it turns out disappointing or sub-standard, then they deserve criticism. Mass Effect 1 was great. Mass Effect 2 was disappointing Mass Effect 3 was an improvement on #2 until the ending. I don't agree with threatening comments, but criticism, especially in a creative field of work, should be expected. I'd have more respect for the guys if they had just turned around and said 'screw you, it's the game we wanted to make'. Instead they have cut and run!
Yup I was expecting loads of disagrees and negative replies to my comment because those who disagreed and gave negative comments only care about themselves and dont care about others. Greed is all I see in those disagrees and negative comments. @ SageHonor : I read the negative replies and I see people not caring about the feelings to the developers especially Gohadouken and Yi-Long.
" because those who disagreed and gave negative comments only care about themselves and dont care about others. Greed is all I see in those disagrees and negative comments. " So people who disagree with you dont care about others and all you see is greed? Very narrow minded and ignorant comment.
Yeah, because criticism is the same as being as selfish as toddlers right? Get over it. ME3 was trashed because it sucked. No one is defending the losers who made death threats, in fact I'm pretty sure that we all pity those people for having serious mental problems. That said, criticizing products we spent our hard earned money on is our right as consumers. If developers who become public figures can't handle that, then they got in the wrong field or should have stayed indie.
@ DragonKnight : You might have spent your hard earned money on buying the game but the developers also spent their hard earned cash on creating the game so that you could play it. It goes both ways you know. They didnt create the game for free.
@steve30x: So? In the real world that's called doing your job. They don't make games for free but they don't make games for fun either. They want us to look at their game and say to ourselves "this is a game I want to play, this is a game I'm willing to spend my money on." Do you know how that happens? By making a good game and not taking the userbase that made you successful for granted. You have to present a reason for people to give you their money, and if you make something people don't like you have to understand that they don't like to part with money they worked hard for in a world that is unforgiving. What you're implying is that just because they worked hard to make the game people should buy it and be happy about it, regardless of its quality or if it lives up to the expectations the developers themselves created for fans to have. That's ridiculous. This isn't grade school. You don't get a gold star just for trying. This is survival of the fittest. You want to succeed and thrive, you damn well better make sure that people are happy with what you're offering or you won't get far.
For all of you so called compassionate act , i see quite a narow minded attitude , especially when calling out other by names . Like said above , those arent people in their corner of the universe being bullied . They had some very public statement made , made themselves very demonstrative persons and actually openly criticized other studios and publishers . It's no wonder it can backfires as soon as you have a misstep . Either way you guys need to stop pretending that their retirement has to do with fans pressure , when everything hints at very corporate related in nature decisions . They sold their company to the highest bidder , wich transforming it obviously , one of their own big project just failed commercially and critically , and they werent in total control anymore . Hence they left to get their freedom back .
i'm probably going to get cruxified for this but i think their all a bit overrated
Quite the opposite. I give bubbles for comments like this one
I think your comment is fair.
Then they should have involved more in ME3 to avoid the fan reaction.
Bioware stop blaming the fans for everything, you have no one to blame but yourself for killing franchises, letting fans down, and not caring about anyone except the presidents in your pockets.
You have to have thick skin to be working in any industry where your work is viewed by the public. I don't blame them for leaving though, the combination of both fan reactions and EA must've been a pain in the ass to deal with. That being said... This is was happens when a game series that's heavily based on story and choices replaces its writer during the last game. There's some great things in the story that it gets right (ex: Garrus and Shepard's citadel scene) but there wasn't that magic that the first two games had that really made a lasting impression (ex: ME1's race to the Citadel and ME2's suicide mission).
Actually, i believe the writer was already replaced in Mass Effect 2. At least that's what i read. Walters took over that part.
nope. "..he was lead writer of Mass Effect 1, 2" http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...
The two Doctors left due to their relationship with Electronic Arts, not negative fan reaction. Ray and Greg are professionals who have contributed a lot to the games industry... being professionals, am positive they probably took criticism from the fans and learned how to better take care and handle future products. I am sure the two (or individually) are planning to open a new company. When Bioware sold-out, the company gave-away its independence and flexibility of doing things. The regret the Doctors have is selling their baby (Bioware) into slavery... EA will work this child to the ground; once they have run her dry, she'll be buried like she never mattered.
This! They didn't do anything illegal to have any external reaction affect them but an internal one, within the company would definitely be another story altogether.
Misleading title and partial speculation article to try and get shit stirred up.. The doctors didnt leave because of mass effect fan negativity.. stop the conspiracy B.S. Maybe they left because they wanted to. In an industry like this, you will face criticism. ( Mature and Immature combined ). What's important is how you react to it. Blaming fan negativity wont do you any justice
“Ray surprised me,” explained Oster. “I had him pegged as an EA lifer. My thought was the Ray agenda was to first usurp Frank Gibeau and then later John Riccotello as CEO.” ^This doesn't sound like someone who quits because fan reaction.
I don't care what sad little kid on here says but here is the reality and if you can't handle it then your still a little kid with a lot of growing up to do. IT'S THEIR GAME, THEIR STORY and THERE EXPERIENCE TO GIVE!!! Bioware did not ruin it...you are just acting like children who can't come to terms that things in life don't always go your way! The only mistake that was made on Bioware's part was the ending and that was because they made a promise to the gamer that your choices would play a critical role on the story...making it so your story was yours alone. In the end they gave us a story that was the same for everyone which means they failed to deliver on that promise. If you make 3 stellar titles and make one mistake it's okay...but you GD kids on communities like here who complain because you didn't get your way are what's really ruining the industry and making great developers want to get out of the industry. At the end of the day it's the internet gangsters who ruin gaming for everyone and when the day comes that you finally destroy gaming I hope some big man comes along and junk punches each and every one of you! Rant over!!!
While I agree BioWare can do whatever they want with their product and much of the rage went overboard, people like you rub me (and others) the wrong way. You say BioWare didn't ruin it, but then admitted they made a mistake in the ending. How is that NOT ruining the game to some degree? What if a fan of the series thinks the ending is one of the most important parts of a story and is designed for closure? What if that ending is flawed and he is disgusted at BioWare's attempt at closing the story he so enjoyed, leaving major plotholes, to boot? I am sure you didn't expect BioWare to stoop to this level of writing a poor ending for a story with better potential than that, right? Somehow he is automatically a little kid with issues growing up for thinking BioWare dropped the ball? It is people like you that make me question myself for being a gamer. Next time, shut up and think before opening your damned mouth.
@sega Messing up on an ending does not translate to a ruined game and only an adult would know that. Its the ride that matters not the destination some times.
Using "adult" as a badge of honor and "kid(s)" as an insult makes your point irrelevant and makes it obvious that you are far more immature than the people you're disparaging.
@lucid Yeah im more imature than the people who feel that they are so entitled hat they have the right to tell an artist that they ruined their own vision...yeah I know Im talking to a child here.
If so, they should recognize that the majority of gamer voices on the internet are extremely negative. Forums and gaming sites comment sections are largely cesspools of vitriol. The majority of gamers, those positive voices that you don't often hear, are too busy enjoying games most of the time.
If you don't think the debacle of ME3's ending and fan reactions didn't have a part in their decision to hang it up I think you are just fooling yourself. I think it wasn't just the fans though... I think it was more the pressures from EA on all games and ME3 was just the tipping point. These guys did there thing well, enjoyed it early on but had to have come to a realization that there was more things they wanted to do than deal with bitching corp suits from EA and crying fanboys. I wish them well in their new endeavors and thank them for what they gave us.
They were only ever the "money" anyway. The talent, the people who actually did someone rather than just sign the checks are still there and working.
i didn't have a problem with any of the games
I love each and every one of the mass effect games. The original ending of 3 bothered me but the extended cut fixed it for me. It's funny, I remember when 3 first came out almost everybody complained how terrible the ending was because of how incredible the rest of the game was. As things progressed and people started just bashing and hating because apparently that's the cool thing to do on the internet, all the sudden the whole game sucks and now the whole damn trilogy is ruined....luckily I have my own mind and opinion, the mass effect series is one of my favorites of all time
i agree with you, except for the original ending (that was indeed, stupid) the whole ME3 was incredible, and the new ending is enough to satisfy me... even so, the first ending was SO bad imo, that i can't find myself playing the game again, like i did with 1 and 2 (played each more than 20 times). if it wasn't for that poor ending (worth of other M) the game wold be a 10/10 for me
biowares last AMAZING games were Baldurs Gate 2 SoA and Neverwinter Nights 1 their last really good games were jade empire and KotOR their last pretty good game was mass effect 1 and dragon age origins (on pc at least, console version of DA was a disaster) everything else has been very meh
And There You Have it Ladies & Gents.... This is what happens when EA buys your studio, takes away your creative vision, and enforces you dumb down your product for the sake of the masses. Ironic really, considering if they provided a QUALITY product it would have yielded even bigger sales, and better reviews.
Are we supposed to feel guilty that two pretty horrible games got a bad reaction?
ME3 actually wasn't horrible; it was actually pretty good with the only real flaw that was significant was the Reapers seemingly being replaced by Cerberus as the main threat and how the ending itself was/is presented. The only thing that made ME3 as a whole "horrible" is the fact that the devs falsely advertised the game while making promises they knew they weren't going to keep (Casey Hudson's "No 'A, B, or C' ending" and how all prior choices would have real weight).
ME2 was the better game. I still think that ME3 had the best story. But eeeeeeeeverything was so stripped from it that the rest of the game suffered.
Sigh.. i think that is something what we all forget when we flame and blame about a Video game, right? The Devs are humans, like we are. They have feelings etc. Of course it feels bad to a dev, when the whole internet bashes your game to the ground. On the other hand... yeh, customers have the right to blame and flame a game they gave their money for? Hmm... sad topic tbh.