Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order's Ridiculous Explanation for Forgettable Hero

Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order's director gave a ridiculous explanation about the game's utterly forgettable white, male protagonist. Here's why he's not drawing any interest.

[coolbeans]

*Sigh*

I don't mind where Luke Luby is initially going in critiquing that bad defense. No meaningful amount of SW fandom would lose 'connection' with Kal were he a non-human protag. We've seen cartoons as early as Droid Adventures showing that shouldn't be a legit worry. But onto the terrible fumble(s) in the rest of the piece...

-"Believe it or not, he blamed Rey - the current lead in the cinematic trilogy - for filling the franchise's glass-ceiling quota."

I don't mean to be picky but selecting a word like "blamed" should be saved for quotes which aren't as pedestrian as this. He's obviously intending to emphasize a contrast here. For example, out of all the big-name, blockbuster-level SW entries since the Disney acquisition you have these characters: Rey, Jyn Erso, Han Solo. So, his quote has more going for it when considering it in this context.

-"Of course, this principle conveniently didn't affect previous games in the franchise.

Luke and Anakin Skywalker were the protagonists in the first six Star Wars films, although there were few female leads in the games. Maybe the developers thought they would be alienating too many people with a female protagonist?"

But Asmussen & Respawn weren't responsible for previous SW games!!! That's a key thing you're ignoring in order to get this oh-so-subtle jab about gender politics. How can you lay that bulls*** at their feet? God...the smarmy attitude on display as this piece closes off annoys me. Prepping to be disappointed based off...a cringe-worthy quote made by the creative director during an interview? Buzz off with this hyperbolic nonsense.

[OB1Biker]

It's true, his explanation is cringe worthy. I d like to play as an alien, no doubt. I guess what he meant is it's not easy to figure out what type of alien people would like? I can see journalists complaining the alien would be too lizard like or too white, or too small etc

[coolbeans]

No, his quote essentially boils down to "we didn't do an alien protag b/c we feared that would ALIENATE the player." Like I said, I have no beef with anyone calling Stig out for that bad rationale.

"I can see journalists complaining the alien would be too lizard like or too white, or too small etc"

Do you mean journalists as a collective here? B/c I think you're acting in bad faith if you believe that's what they'd latch onto. Regardless of color or size, an aesthetically interesting alien design as a protag would get near-universal praise imo.

[ReVibe]

The way I see it, I would prefer to play as a human because it's a relative conduit to how diverse the galaxy is. I think it's more exciting to have all the wondrous people and races around me to be something different than me.

This is the meaning of diversity and tolerance.

[carcarias]

Imho, the cringe-worthy thing is that any explanation is needed at all. Games makers and their publishers make games based on all sorts of reasons, profit being the main one. If they want to play it safe, I don't blame them and they shouldn't need to defend it.

Anyway, I agree with you wholeheartedly about the personality/writing being the key to making a character special.

[0hMyGandhi]

Yeah, it's not like some of the most popular games ever made had you play as a dragon, a bandicoot, a Lombax and his robot sidekick, a thieving raccoon, a bear and his bird friend, a family of monkeys, a foul-mouthed squirrel and a well-dressed gecko.

[OB1Biker]

I just mean he tried the easier, safer way (human vs alien) to please everyone and avoid comparisons with the movies (male vs female) . That's what I get and I don't blame him. He did say he was interested in the idea so maybe the decision was not his alone. Anyway it's not the look that matters but the personality.

Edit
And yea I don't have much faith in gaming journalism that think that being white Male is a problem

[coolbeans]

Oh sure, it definitely wasn't solely his choice to make. But regardless of how many were involved, it still comes off as...weird to see that kind of disconnect between an artist and fanbase. No doubt millions would buy/rent a SP Star Wars covering Chewy's adventures between Ep. 3 & 4 too.

-"Anyway it's not the look that matters but the personality. "

Yeah, I really hope they pull off Cal's arc.

[Dspdspes]

And on top of that, I am a white male.....

I am definitely thrash :)

[got_dam]

SJW culture has gone WAY too far already. Vocal minority.

[TK-66]

"Luke and Anakin Skywalker were the protagonists in the first six Star Wars films, although there were few female leads in the games. Maybe the developers thought they would be alienating too many people with a female protagonist?"

Female protagonists don't alienate people from Star Wars. However, when they're bombarding us with boring female characters, like they have been recently, then It's definitely alienating. Rey, Jyn, Rose, Holdo and Iden have all failed to deliver an interesting protagonist. Iden was marketed as the ideal soldier for the Empire who was fully indoctrinated and loyal. But, she then becomes a rebel less than half way through the game, lol.

Whoever they have on the Star Wars story team have zero talent in world building and story crafting.

[OB1Biker]

What? Hes... 'white'? And..and...'Male'??? Eww
Maybe give him a chance?

[Juiceid]

Erma-Gawd! No way! Gather the mobs, face masks, and molotov cocktails and riot!

[Juusterey]

No
I'll judge on skin colour and gender
not by playing the game

[Sciurus_vulgaris]

I was actually surprised that Fallen Order had a male lead. Kathleen Kennedy, the head of Lucas Films has been pushing film leads and oddly female “empowerment” in Star Wars.

[Battlestar23]

Female leads in star wars have apparently started the apocalypse oh i would what will we do.

[Inzo]

Maybe not the apocalypse but certainly the downfall of Star Wars.

[AngelicToucH]

Hope this article is not serious or we are dead as species.

[Bathyj]

The amount of stupidity I've been reading lately, maybe it's time.

[Hungryalpaca]

This is so damn racist and sexist. They’re literally judging his character based on his skin colour and sex. We know next to nothing about him yet.

[Chaosdreams]

"Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order's director gave a ridiculous explanation about the game's utterly forgettable white, male protagonist."

Switch white with black.
Male with female.

Yeah, doesn't sound good does it?

[rainslacker]

Except a black female protagonist would be praised for being interesting, even if it showed the exact same depth of character in the previews that we've seen from the white male protagonist.

It's really a strange thing, considering that Star Wars, at least the movies, has never dealt with issues of racism or sexism. I guess there is the droid oppression used as a loose allegory, usually presenting a few awesome stand out droids. Something the Solo movie made into something cheesy and stupid with it's attachment of current SJW politics.. But I digress.

[Atom666]

In much of the EU, the Empire was always presented as very anti-nonhumans. They enslaved and oppressed entire planets, had xenophobic leaders, and all sorts of interesting stuff that would be FAR more interesting to explore than what we actually see today.

That's something that may or may not have been retconned with the new canon though.

[Kran]

Is everybody forgetting there already was a Star Wars EA game with a female protagonist of a different ethnicity?

Iden Versio?

And she didn't exactly get the "best" reaction:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...

(Yes, its wikipedia but its all I got)

[ShadowWolf712]

@Atom That's still a thing in current canon. One of the novels, Aftermath, makes specific reference to a former Imperial officer who caught one of his Troopers with a book teaching one of the alien languages and broke his fingers as punishment. Then told him he'd gotten off easy compared to what their commander would have done to him.

[rainslacker]

I think the character herself was not criticized too heavily. As I recall, it was still just one character from a squad based scenario. The game itself received a lot of heat, but not because of the character. Maybe I missed out on that part of controversy if it existed.

[spicelicka]

The issue here is shoving race and sex in every goddamn thing. This whole article and discussion could be possible by just talking about how an alien race would be MORE interesting instead of how the white race shouldn't be there.

Playing as an alien race would make it more interesting to me, but playing as another human race or female would make no difference to me, and this is coming from a non-white person.

[Chaosdreams]

*nods in agreement.

[carcarias]

Well, yeah. You have to look at customer demographics when you're selling a product, and that's what it is, a product. Most games aren't meant to be politically motivated social messaging.

Apparently the Dishonored 2 dlc that starred a black lesbian with a disability sold very poorly despite reviewing very well. Publishers and devs take notice of that sort of thing and I can't blame them. It's just business, whether the journos like it or not.

[DillyDilly]

How do we know the hero is forgettable when no ones played the game

[rainslacker]

I forget. All those white males look the same to me.

Always fun to watch people talk about how bad racism or sexism is, while also exhibiting the exact same behavior they're supposedly trying to speak out against.

There really was no reason at all to talk about the characters race, or gender. The fact it's even a subject that's somewhat addressed by the dev means things have gotten out of hand, because why should a dev be asked why the character was made a certain way, when that certain way is nothing out of the ordinary. No matter how these questions are answered, they're always framed in a way to cause upset and bring undue attention upon the person answering it....usually in a negative way. Devs should just say, "because we wanted to", and leave it at that, regardless of what the gender or race was. It's all that matters. They don't need some fanciful reason.

[Kabaneri]

Its Ian from Shameless how is that boring? These writers are mad that the protagonist isnt a lesbian black chick.

[rainslacker]

Is he forgettable because he's a white male protagonist? Or is he forgettable because he's not well written?

While I know some assumption can be made as to how a character might be in the final product, it seems rather premature to assume that this character is forgettable on a narrative level.

When I remember characters, it's not typically because of their race or gender, and if that's the only thing worthy of remembering them by, then chances are, they're probably not very good characters to begin with.

I'd say as of right now he's not drawing any interest because people are not trusting of EA to deliver. They videos shown so far don't seem to have him be Jedi enough, and the story in general seems weak. Again, that may be premature assumption, but it is a perception that some people have. EA also hasn't marketed this game heavily as of yet, so interest is going to not be as strong as it will be later....especially if it turns out to be a good game.

The last thing I want to see though is the game being downrated because of the race and gender of the protagonist. I'd much rather a game be measured on it's own merits, and if it's a good game, give it the rating it deserves. EA may be evil incarnate, but they won't change if there is no way to show them that they'll get credit for the good things they do. If it's always damned if you do, damned if you don't, then there is no reason to change, and it'll take a major shift in how people spend their money to make them change.

[phoenixwing]

my complaint wasn't the narrative it was the fact that the enemies were so simple and easy. something which i've come to realize is a wish on my part that star wars games had more difficult AI. Just seems odd nowadays with our advancement in technology that we would have some braindead waves of ai that take turns to fight. I just expect more out of my games nowadays. When i was a kid i never questioned or wanted such huge challenges but now that I'm older i want the full package out of a star wars game.

[NiteX]

Well Star Wars has been all about having forgettable characters in their movies so Respawn figured they should keep up the trend.

[DillyDilly]

The Disney Characters are forgettable but The Original trilogy characters are still beloved to this day so what are you yapping about ?

[ReVibe]

Notice how the people who crusade for tolerance and diversity are the majority of people that make racist, sexist remarks. They think the "white male patriarchy" owes them the right to everything. Subhuman behavior.

[SamPao]

And you are on the oposite side doing exactely the same "clap clap"

[SamPao]

@Da_Ocsta counter it with reason. You are creating extremists everyday if you counter it with the same stupid force.

[0hMyGandhi]

"Suffice to say that it looks like Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order will deliver another disappointing entry to the legendary franchise."

Wow. I'm not a huge fan of what we've seen so far of this game, but this is waaaay over-the-top.

[Nitrowolf2]

“Forgettable hero”

Did I miss the release?

[SegaGamer]

Seriously, people are weird as hell these days.......well, I say people, I'm not sure the people in the media are actual real everyday people, just deranged morons living in a fantasy bubble.

In my whole life, I have never once gone into a game thinking so deeply about what skin colour or gender a character is going to have. What the hell has happened to gaming? In the past, I would just play my games and have some fun without real life political issues getting in the way, but these psycho's are out to ruin it.

These journalists care more about skin colour and gender than the actual games these days. How about focusing on something that is actually an issue, like microtransactions. That right there is an actual serious issue in gaming today, not s***** gender and race politics that normal everyday people don't give two s**** about.

[Inzo]

Why the f#*% is this question even being asked? Would this be asked if it was a black guy or a white whaman?

Hey Luke Luby! Learn to code.

[Juiceid]

Im no programmer, but would it be that difficult to have a character creation? I can see the cutscenes being tricky, however I’d think there was a way.

[Juusterey]

Not every game needs a character creator

[carcarias]

Nonsense article.

1: Race shouldn't matter, just good writing. That's what makes a great, memorable character.

2: The game hasn't come out yet so how can anyone judge? Unless, of course, the person in question is relying solely on appearances.....which is dumb beyond belief. I guess journo school forgot to teach its students the old saying, 'Don't judge a video game character by their race'. Or was it something about books? I never remember :)

[skyrimer]

"utterly forgettable white, male protagonist" says journalist.
But if the dev said "yet he's gay", then suddenly "what a magnificent choice of main character".

I'm so tired of people judging everyone but something NOBODY CHOOSES. Nobody has chosen to be born male, female, gay, hetero, white, black, rich or poor. We should be judged by WHAT WE DO. How we treat people, if we're respectful and kind or the opposite. Those are our choices that define us and we should be judged for. It always amazes me how people from minority groups allow themselves to be defined by their race and sex. Breaking news, that was given to you by your parents, it's sad that the only important thing that defines you was never your own choice.

[bujasem_89]

i actually like the character more than starwars from shameless dude is a good actor

[Orionsangel]

The generic white hero. Only white people can save us...obviously.

[tinchotin]

A person is not forgettable or memorable because of skin color or gender

[REBORN71]

I think the main protagonist should be a male Indian - the representation of indians in popular culture is non existant - its really impossible to find any male indians in porn or any other serious arthouse endevours on screen. The gaming industry would benefit from being the first and Star Wars universe is the perfect vehicle for it and a male indian as a main character is totally fitting.

I think we should start a petition maybe that way we can get the developers to stop behaving like dinosaurs and get on with the modern times.

Obliviously its too late for this game but there is still hope that we collectively could change the history and just maybe convince the developers of ghost of tsushima to implement an Male Indian as the main protagonist. I realise the game is set in faudal japan but who is to say that there could not have been an badass indian trained by the ninjas.

Whos with me on this one?

and yes i am aware of this webpage and saddend that you didnt get it before visiting it https://www.sarcmark.com/

[warriorcase]

What a terrible nonsensical take. You even used a twitter post to support the position that is literally itself next to nothing as well. People care about interesting stories mixed with fun gameplay. If the character is poorly written then it wouldn't matter if they were a disabled Ethiopian female because a bad character is a bad character regardless of sex or race.

Stop being sexist and racist in order to argue something being sexist and racist. No ones buying what your selling.

[AK91]

I mean the only thing ridiculous here is this article.

[BrettAwesome]

I'm a white man. Everybody must hate me. I am evil. I torture slaves and eat children and rape orangutans and exotic trees.

[Mister_Wolf]

Why the fuck does race and gender enter into everything nowadays?

[Juusterey]

"utterly forgettable white, male protagonist. Here's why he's not drawing any interest"
Don't even need to read any more to see why you think this way

[Aaroncls7]

"utterly forgettable white, male protagonist" lmao how woke do you have to be to write this type of garbage headline?

[FITSniper]

It's only a "forgettable" hero to those who are too woke.

[Donnie81]

The guy isn’t that bad. I’m more concerned with the overall game being good. I bet you would prefer the main character be a lgbq illegal alien right? Oh excuse me “ migrant”