If working overtime on AAA games is the only way to succeed, 'then the industry deserves to die'

Summerfall Studios co-founder David Gaider speaks in favor of industry unionization and his studio's four day work week.

Dwarf Fortress co-creator Tarn Adams blasted execs behind layoffs as "greedy, greedy people."

[H9]

Well with people it depends on which studio are we talking about, Rockstar can hold a live execution and someone will say "I also got executed in my job it's alright"

[thorstein]

I can't stand that excuse. Greed is greed. It earns hundreds of billions in revenue.

[Eonjay]

This whole tantrum the writer seems to be on is pointless. It mean Helldivers 2 is pushing 10 million sold. Its not some huge AAA production and yet... it is very successful. Same can be said for a game like Palworld. We have lot of example of non AAA games moving a lot of copies and getting interest. Like look at the Survivors games.

So you don't even need to be AAA to be a success in the first place. So the worthiness of the industry was never in the hands of the AAA to begin with. Sure we can all agree that forced overtime is not a good thing. But that isn't good in any industry. Like look at the health industry....

[thorstein]

@Eonjay

He's quoting people in the industry. There may be some ranting near the end but it mirrors the sentiments of those people making great games.

And I think that's the point. The big boys need to die off. At one point EA could fit in one room. Same with Activision.

The essential idea is that greed is what is costing people their jobs, not work ethic, not any buzz words, just greed.

But you're right about AAA. There are great games out now.

[GhostScholar]

Yeah we should all just get part time jobs with no insurance or benefits……that’ll teach the man to stop demanding and expecting hard work from its employees

[DarXyde]

Don't think anyone is not expecting hard work from employees. But things like mandatory overtime are absolutely ridiculous.

Also, I don't know why you say "insurance or benefits" because insurance is a type of benefit, but ok. Either way, tethering insurance (typically health/vision/dental) to employment is asinine. Very recent history where workers on strike lost health coverage for their families during a strike.

[senorfartcushion]

It's weak men who try to help enforce old rules

[sushimama]

Sometimes developers want to work overtime because they are passionate about what they're creating. No one should be forced to do it, but it shouldn't be frowned upon. Keep crunch going for those that want to do it, but don't ostrasize others in the dev team for choosing not to.

[GhostScholar]

I’m so tired of this argument. I hate to break it to you people who still live in your parents house, but in the real world people work overtime. I’m a coatings technician and I work 70 hours a week to take care of my family. I’m so sick of companies getting ridiculed for expecting hard work from their employees. When I hired in to my company they made it clear there would be overtime and I agreed to it so it is what it is. The attitudes of people born in the last 25 years is everything that is wrong with our country. How about instead of getting paid nothing to be an advocate for laziness and government support of everyone who has “depression” you actually do something productive.

PS

If you’re so appalled at these companies then stop buying their games.

[andy85]

True it's your choice but you shouldn't have to. Back in the day you could work a 40 hour week and provide for your family. Now a lot of the time both people are having to work and still struggling. 70 hours working, commuting and then sleeping, people must hardly see the family they're providing for. Work to live not live to work. It doesn't sound much of a life.

[thorstein]

Your company is exploiting you. You're missing 30 hours from your family. They'd rather see you than what you earn.

Your company should be paying you more. I've got bad news, they won't, not when you'll do the job of two people for the price of one.

You're also ignoring all the people who do work hard but don't get compensated fairly for it. You're also ignoring how corporate profits have soared since the 1970s but salaries have stayed flat whilst pensions, Christmas bonuses, hour long paid lunch, two weeks+ paid vacation have all disappeared. You work longer for less.

It's not laziness. If a company wants to pay the minimum, then they get the minimum.

You just don't know what you're worth.

[solideagle]

if you are getting paid for that overtime, sure but free overtime is just Evil. I can do 1 hour of free overtime but 40 hours vs 70 hours is bit too much!

[senorfartcushion]

Even one is too much.

[senorfartcushion]

I work far less hours in order to take care of mine. Are you sure you're not doing something wrong?

[Profchaos]

The entire industry just seems like a problem is been eating itself since lockdown ended globally thinking that this infinite growth was forever and making investments on the back of that.

Now everyone's back to their normal lives games are still popular but since people can get outside they still obviously decline.

During lockdown globally people were playing live service titles constantly as a form of socialising now that's not as needed and despite still being popular they are declining yet every publisher is banking heavily on them. I don't play live service games much but during lockdown like everyone else I played warzone with friends every weekend for hours on end as a social activity

I'll be honest this last few months I've spent far more time playing earthbound on NSO for the first time than my ps5 which I haven't really touched since Spiderman 2 and re4 VR late last year. To me this generation feels like an everlasting dry spell broken by the occasional good game but followed by another long stretch of nothing.

Point is these live service games seemingly take more resources and manpower to develop they rely on crunch and exhausting employees to breaking point with a traditional game that ends or slows down at launch but a live service game that's where it only ramps Up

[CrimsonWing69]

Wake up. Lots of businesses and corporate jobs deal with overtime especially when it comes to deadlines. Shut up with this bullsh*t.

[WolfSeed]

Says some blue haired feminist. STFU

[senorfartcushion]

Says some weak virgin mofo.

You stfu.

[thorstein]

There's literally quotes from 2 people in the description.

And why would being paid what you earn be less because a feminist said so?

I think you won gold in mental gymnastics.

[senorfartcushion]

True

[Tankbusta40]

Like anything in life its a time management issue. Games get announced years in advance...little goes on but "hype videos" etc....then the release date gets nearer and everyone goes "oh shit we have screwed around for three years...now we actually got to make a game"

If you start a project with a clear and concise plan, this wouldn't happen

[Psychonaut85]

The industry as whole, no. But I’d definitely be ok seeing the AAA space get a hard reset. But it probably won’t cuz the suits don’t actually give a f$&k about games and will just keep trend chasing. Which you can’t do, cuz trends change every year or two and AAA games take like 6 or 7 now. Then Warner Bros thinking the lesson from Suicide Squad is that AAA is too volatile, even though they literally just had a massive success with Hogwarts just shows how f$&king obtuse the top brass is at these companies. They don’t give a sh!t about their target demographic, much less their employees.

[Fonsecap]

People work overtime when there isn't enough people to do the job and the established deadlines are unreal, having said that I think the problem is that greedy companies with a greedy administration want to do more with less people and less time, so yes I agree that AAA gaming must die, but not because of overtime work(we know why this happens) but because the state of the games released in the last few years is shameful and the live service games are just scams disguised as videogames.

[Murdability]

I have to work overtime. I like my job. I like money. No need to kill it