Why '8' for MGS4 is such a hard cookie to swallow

8 is a pretty good score. So its not about 8. Its about when you give a game an 8 over something that is considered as the game's strength. Imagine you give BioShock a 5 just because its atmosphere is too creepy? or you give Call of Duty 4 a 3.5 just because its campaign was too scripted, or you give Gears of War a 5 just because its environments had a gritty look.

MGS4 cutscenes are long. Fine because they flush out more story then most games. Ok you don't like cutscenes fair enough, can you skip them, yes you can, so is it a flaw? I don't think so. If they aren't forcing something on you then how come its a flaw. Forcing six axis motion controls on you in Lair was a flaw, but if they had included analogue stick support, can it then be considered as a flaw?

The game story is too complex? So what? Did you hated the movie Prestige to have a lot of twists or did you hated Fight Club for having WTF moments? it has a complex story in an age of video games where there is hardly any story in games, you are bashing it having a story? A story which is followed by several hundred thousands gamers to this date. A story which is dated back to the 80s. and you are bashing this game on its story. Is it a bad story, the reviewers won't say that its a bad story. Its just to complex for them.

The game has long load times and install time. So the game has long load time and install times, that means the game uses the HDD. Have you seen the videos? the game is down right the best looking game, with insane character models. Simply look at Snake's hairs.

Eurogamer had any specific reasons to cut 2 points? hhmmm... May be they didn't like MGS series on the first place, then they shouldn't be reviewing it, because they will be biased.

Lastly wasn't MGO bundled with MGS4, so it should be included in the review. But no they don't and most probably say, hey no multiplayer, so no replay value.

8 is a good score only when you have some points to deduct on. At one stance these journalist claims that games and video industry are merging into one medium and on the other end they say that the game sucks because it has cutscenes etc.

[Alexander Roy]

Why can't you - and some others as well - stop that score crap? Read the reviews. Look at the pros and cons. Everybody, that honestly thinks that mere numbers can represent somethings worth, is a moron. If Gears Of War got 0.2, would that mean the game is different from what it would be with a score of 10? Besides that point, every review is subjective. It is ONE PERSONS opinion on something.
Homework: Go through the internet, look up every game you didn't buy because you thought the score was too low. Then, read the reviews and think about what they state, ignoring the score. If you are done, mourn all the nice experiences you could have had if you weren't stupid enough to base YOUR opininon about something on SOMEONES opinion.
-- Note: If you read the reviews for the sake of the review and don't skip until you see the score, the above was not directed at you.

[n4gzz]

well, It wouldn't sell as many as it sold. Not even 1/10th of it.

[Alexander Roy]

You just completely missed my point.
I talk abou the game itself. If OoT got 1/10, does that make the game any different from what it is? If Dr. Jekyll and Mr Hide would have gotten 10s, would that have made it a good game? Just because someone doesn't like a game doesn't mean everybody else has to as well. The truly sad thing about this isn't that there are scores which some think are unfair, but that so many people are influenced by just numbers and the opinion of some person who may have been paid to alter the score as well.
Now disagree and flame me all you want, at the end of the day I still will be the one who enjoyed games you didn't buy because of scores.

[LJWooly]

What you're saying is that, no matter what scores the game gets, we're still going to end up with the same quality game, right? Because if that's the case, then I agree with you, but everyone's too busy complaining about the state of gaming journalism and how it's in a shambles to consider that.

Although, there is one magazine that annoys me, and that's EDGE. They're the self-proclaimed harshest magazine out there, yet they gave Halo 3 a 10, and MGS4 an 8. Wth? They gave an 8 to Shadow of the Colossus and Psychonauts, too. I honestly think they just have awful taste in vdeogames.

[Alexander Roy]

Thank you LJWooly, finally a smart person here. Yes, that is exactly what I mean.
Concerning the journalism in the gaming industry: You are right, loads of people start complaining right now, kinda like it is a trend, a cool thing to do. I always thought that scores aren't needed, just like in school. I s*uck at math, but that doesn't mean I am bad when it comes to calculations - I got my D's anyway. The thing is that there were so many hyped games recently (Halo 3, GTAIV, HAZE to an extent as well), that, when you read the reviews and then play the game, just make you shake your head. Yes, GTA4 was good, but did it really deserve all the 10s, seeing all the stuff it lacked? I can't say anything about Halo 3 because I never played it, but from what I read on the internet, there are people that liked the game a lot, but wouldn't give it a 10 either. Some reviews were bought, companies paid lots of money, bribed. If you ask me, that has always happened and always will. Just compare the reviews - the thing that most of them comment are the ones to most likely beeing true.
About EDGE: Well, maybe they just have a very special taste in videogames. I know a lot guys who don't like MGS because the story is "too much" for them. On the other hand, I don't like RE4 as much as the average reviewer. Now, I won't say they got bribed since I don't have any information about that, so maybe it was just some gigantic coincidence that those games all got that score.

[LJWooly]

Thanks for that, bubbles for you. If anyone knows about complaining, it's me (being a Brit) but I really can't see why so many people are getting worked up about this at all. Why do people even let reviews decide what they play for them in the first place? The only people getting worked up are the MGS fans, and if they need good reviews to feel good about the game, that says a lot about them. It's not like EDGE and Eurogamer "desecrated" the game, and, as you already stated, it isn't going to change the end product, one bit. All it'll change is the game's Metacritic score, and that doesn't mean squat.

Also, when I said EDGE had awful taste in games, I should have said "I don't agree with EDGE's taste in games". Just trying to stay subjective :)

[Alexander Roy]

Thanks a lot, I'll return that favor.
If you look just at this blog here, you can see the whole picture on a smaller scale - well, sort of I think. Look at all the disagrees I alone got for stating that scores are pretty senseless. I won't complain because I got disagreed with, but it shows that people DO care about that little number at the end of a wall o' text. I think it has to do with that "mine is much better than yours, because..." mentality, which is part of the human nature, apparently. Best example is the ongoing fight for which one is more powerful, XBox360 or PS3. People shout numbers at each other, most not knowing anything about what they say (what average guy can explain FLOPS? ALU? XDR memory?), but it makes them feel good. Ever heard someone say: "I need a new mobilephone, mine doesn't have enough memory."? Same thing. I am at the point where I believe that there are people out there who just buy games because the got more than 9.0 on IGN or somewhere else, so that they can tell their friends they "only have the best games".
I got what you meant with EDGE and I tried to choose my words as best as I could. But, what some don't want to understand and which is true for every game's score: If you take a reviewer who hates a genre/series/game and make them review just that, no matter how "professional" he is, he will still slag of points here and there for the simple fact that he didn't enjoy it.

[LJWooly]

Exactly, my friend. The only thing regarding this subject that "annoys" me to any degree at all, is reviewer bias, but even that really doesn't matter in the big picture, not one bit. I've never gone by reviews, I've much preferred to ask my friends what they thought of a game, and I usually get a far better idea of what to expect from the game, than Iever could by looking at Metacritic or Gamerankings.

As for the statistic battles... ugh. Now that a lot of 360 fanboys seem to have left the site for whatever reason, and it's now predominantly PS3 fanboys, there's less reason for them to fight, and therefore that crap's calmed down a little, but people still feel the need to let numbers define their gaming experiences. Whatever happened to thinking for our bloody selves? It's sad, but maybe that's just another downside to the "mainstream" direction this industry seems to be going in...

[Alexander Roy]

Sadly, I've gone by reviews to some extent. Out of all games, it was GTA4 to open my eyes, but that doesn't belong here.
I could come up with a lot of reasons why some fanboys left the site, some of which would just make me like one of them, but from a point that is based on thought and not on personal preference, I'd say that some of them were just fed up. I'd disagree if someone said they became more mature, because if they were, they would stay and just change in what they say. Aside from that, I don't have an explanation.
What bothers me way more than fanboys, though, are those fools that have avatars like Hitler or the flag of the Nazis, sometimes in conjunction with a console. Problem here, these things happen in the open zone where it can take ages for a mod to take car of that. That must be one of the most extreme ways of not thinking yourself and just blabbering what others said. I didn't read "Nazisoft" here just once and I report them everytime I see it, but apparently, that doesn't help.
I already said that some time ago, but people really get increasingly stupid the bigger the group they are in. It just takes one moron to turn a whole mob into a shouting crowd, maiming everything in their way with their "intellectual" power, creating fads all over the place.
I just wonder why it's mostly XBox360 and PS3 fanboys/girls that act like that. The reason why some people hate a console is just cute sometimes, you'll hear things like "the XBox360/PS3 was so overhyped". Well, what isn't? The only thing I hear from what you can call Wii fanboys, occasionally I might add, is how much Nintendo revolutionized gaming with the DS&Wii. Plus, I have never met a "casual gamer" that started a flamewar.

[LJWooly]

Well, to be fair, the vast majority of Wii owners are computer-illiterate old age pensioners and 4 year olds, but I shan't degrade into 'fanboyism' here :)

And yes, I hate when these silly fanboys think the liberal use of the word "Nazi" is intelligent, especially when it's used in regards to a fictional console war that exists nowhere but in the minds of delusional fanboys.
Not only that, but when fanboys of Company X make allusions to the relation between Corporation Y and the Nazi/Communist party, or vice-versa, they show very little evidence or example with which to back up their claims, making them essentially non-sensical, which further serves to show the maturity of these kids, as they exhibit next to no knowledge of the delicate issues they're attempting to tackle.

What makes me laugh heartily the most though, is when these opposing fanboys label each other "Xbot" or Sony droid", completely oblivious to the fact that they are the very definition of that which they criticise. The degree of hypocrisy these fanboys are guilty of is mindblowing.

In fact, the whole concept of fanboyism is extremely questionable, at best. Why on earth would someone defend a huge, stinking rich multi-national corporation? Do they honestly believe said corporation has done anything to deserve their loyalty? Do they think that, if a representative of this corporation came across them being attacked on a forum, they'd step in to help? No, of course they wouldn't, this company sees them as nothing more than a "customer", another sales statistic. I think that, on a subconcious level, they've convinced themselves to believe that their favourite corporation actually cares about them, on a personal level. If that's the case, then that is just beyond sad.
If it's as simple as, "I bought their product, and therefore I shall defend them", then that also brings about some questioning about their level of intellect, and of course, ignorance.

But, I can sit here and moan about the nature of the N4G community all day if I want, but that would be hypocritical of me, as I recently criticised others for, in my own words, "complaining about the state of gaming journalism and how it's in a shambles". So, I think I better shut up now :)

If I could give you another bubble I would, since you're cool.

[ECKOo9]

I agree with almost everything you said here except for one thing. If a game has long load times I believe that the reviewer can knock the score down. The only thing that I am angry with is the fact that all the reviews that gave it an 80% all pissed on about how long and complicated the cut scenes are. If you are to mentally handicapped or ADD to sit still during some of the best story driven short movies ever than let someone else do review you dip s****. What's really sad is that people in this day and age can only sit down and pay attention for thirty seconds unless of coarse it's got boobs or bloody heads flying to and fro. I think it's nice to see a game that really cares about a strong story plot and dynamic, interesting characters. Can't wait for the game.

[Alexander Roy]

Been quite a while since somebody called me cool, but thanks anyway. :)
Well I tend to agree with what Yahtzee said in one of his videos, most people only have the money to afford one console and then defend their console by all means to justify that they chose this one. All the games that won't come out for their console are crap just for the hell of it, every superior port becomes like winning a fight in a war and sales are means to show just how good your console is.
I completely agree with you on that defending it like that is senseless thing. There is a difference between recommending a console or a game to someone and to put someone down because he doesn't think what you bought is awesome. I sometimes wonder if every fanboy/fangirl gets mail for their birthday, the company thanking them for the advertisement.
About the intelligence thing: Well, I don't want to offend somebody, but every one that can't admit that their console has flaws is crazy. Even the XBox360 and PS3 could be improved just by upgrading the availabe RAM to, let's say, 1GB. The Wii could need a HDD and so on.

[LJWooly]

Yeah, I own and prefer the PS3 to the other available consoles, but I'm not going to delude myself. There was, let's face it, barely anything to play on the thing for a while after launch. As for the RAM thing, well, I'm not a developer, but Insomniac, Guerrila Games and Naughty Dog don't seem to mind it :)

[livespawn]

a review is a person's OPINION witch may not suit YOUR opinion and different reviewers are entitled to their own opinion just the same as you are. i know that a lot of people complained because some MGS4 reviewers weren't fans of the series and such thus why the 8. i think that it is good to once in a while have a reviewer who isn't into that style of game because it dose reduce some bias towards it compared to a die-hard fan (thats just imo), and it will help those on the fence who maybe aren't fans get a different perspective from the review .but instead of us bickering about it we should be embracing MGS4 for what it is and be playing it(12th yay)

[Gun_Senshi]

Edge and Eurogamer said the following:

- great AI
- multiple ways to approach the missions
- great controls
- great shooting
- too complicated story for newcomers
- lengthy cut scenes
- simplicity of some objectives
- the game isn't what it could have been or should have been, but no reason is stated
- game doesn't appeal to reviewers who didn't enjoy MGS2's ending (refers to himself)
- score is apparently better than in new hollywood movies, fitting in perfectly with action
- Liquid Ocelot is a superb villain
- maps are a trifle small
- game encourages explorative play by hiding items in every hidden corner
- the arsenal is humongous, you can build different Snake over and over again
- again, there are tons of different ways to play
- Drebin points are a proper way of incorporating weapon collecting
- Otacon is being described as a gaming (non interactive) revolution, due to the way he looks and acts, he's called a star of MGS4
- iPod is a great addition, especially for fans
- this game is made for fans "...If you sat in lockers while footsteps came and went, or basked in codec conversations without once checking your watch, MGS4 is your just reward"
- using mkII is essential for stealth gameplay
- amazing visuals, only flaw is that textures look significantly worse up close

Edge Scans:
http://www.n4g.com/gaming/N...

Edge and Eurogamer are same persons

Eurogamer contributors include PC Gamer, Games TM and Edge magazine writers such as Oliver Welsh (Edge), Kieron Gillen (PC Gamer/ Edge), Jim Rossignol (PC Gamer/ Edge), John Walker (PC Gamer), Simon Parkin (Edge), Alec Meer (PC Gamer), Richard Leadbetter (Mean Machines), Dan Whitehead, Keza MacDonald (Games TM), and David McCarthy (Edge, MCV), as well as former GamesIndustry.biz editor Rob Fahey. Additionally, a number of regular contributors to the site write under pseudonyms (such as Egon Superb).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

So if you read the review. The score did not match with review

[Britjadg]

an 8 rating on ign = impressive bordering on great.
(i know ign gave mgs4 9.9)

but my point is that an 8 all depends on EDGES rating system.

personally i think a numbers a number as you say, its the written review that counts and i think edges written review was pretty good. too much stock placed in a number - i know why its done, for comparison / get a rough idea of the calibre of game, but its still shoddy IMO.

[livespawn]

sorry, thats what a friend told me. after reading your link i see now thx

[Truplaya]

reviews are a matter of opinion, dont read too closely into them. MGS4 will be an amazing game and will surely get 10/10 from other reviewers.

But....

I hate cut scenes, and i never pay attention to the story in games, i just wanna play the game. I may have knocked a pount off in a review for over-emphasis on story (its a game not a film remember). This does put me off MGS4 a little but i will still be getting it.
Previous MGS games did a shoddy job of not being able to skip cut scenes (the radio, the last boss on MGS1) but im sure they'll let me skip these supposed 90 minute cut scenes. If not, i'll return it and go rent a film.

[ind1]

story is a huge part of MGS4..

if you don't follow the story, then really its just like watching a movie and not listening to anything being said but just watching the action parts.

really doesn't do it - i think you should stick to games like Halo 3 and gears of war.

[OLD MAN]

turn the tide of the game sales war, INDEFINATELY

[LJWooly]

Metal Gear SOLID 4. Metal Gear is actually an older series, but same base storyline.

[KingKirchner]

THANK YOU! This is what I've been saying too. People have praised Bioshock and Uncharted (well, not Uncharted so much because it's PS3 exclusive, but that's another story) because they offer a cinematic movie like experience in a game. Yet they can't even compair to how well the MGS franchise blurs that line.

That's always been one of the major appeals of MGS to the fans, is that there is no line saying "this is a game" it's more cloudy as to whether it's a game, or an interactive cinimatic experience. That, IMO, is the biggest appeal of the games, yet it's being portrayed as a con.

[lonestarmt]

totally agree. What that tells me is that they had the wrong person review it. They are missing the point. ITs like sending me to review sex and the city and me saying the game was to girly and had to much stress on fashion. I hate that stuff, but thats the very reason why someone whole likes that show, well likes. Its like saying speed racer was to animeish. lol.

[Awesomeo3000]

the gaming industry needs to move away from using reviews as if it was the bible it is the opinion of one man alone in the end we need to go out there and play the games ourselves. also its not anyones problem that the story is too complex for newcomers this game is for the fans and if u havent played the others u def should its worth the time.

[rockleex]

Do you see any respectable news reporter giving their opinions when 9/11 happened? Nope.

When you do a review, you're not giving the audience your opinion. You're supposed to give them the good and the bad. The end score should be reflective of how great the game was... not whether you LIKED the game or not.

Opinions don't belong on reviews. Of course, if something is done poorly, or some things don't fit in... then you can point it out, and deduct points according to how much effect it has on the game. That has little to do with opinion.

If you read the reviews, MGS4 was praised like God 99% of the time... but then at the end, the game receives 8/10. Does that reflect the quality of the game? Or does it reflect the reviewer's opinions?

I think nowadays, reviewers tend to use their opinions to determine a game's score. All the great things or bad things in the game doesn't matter anymore... only whether they liked that game or not.

We don't want none of your opinions. That's up for the individual to decide. All we need to know is the quality of the game, whether it reached the goals it set out to achieve, whether there are some annoying flaws, etc. That's all we need to decide whether a game deserves our time.

If reviewers want to express their opinions, go do that on a blog! For the reviews, we just want to know how good the game is!

Hell, as you can see, some people don't even know what a review is supposed to be anymore.

[LJWooly]

Um... news reporting and videogame journalism don't share a whole lot in common.

[Alexander_Roy]

rockleex, you have read a review before, eh? doesnt look like it. show me a review without subjective undertone and ill show you someone taht doesnt lie.

[mike_mgoblue]

MGS4 has received the disappointing review score of only 8 out of 10 by Edge, Eurogamer, 360 Gamer Magazine, GameCritics, and others.

Other reviews in magazines and newspapers have rated Metal Gear Solid 4 with scores as low as 6 out of 10! I think it's safe to say that MGS4 ended up being an even bigger disappointment than Devil May Cry 4. After all, a review score of 8 out of 10 isn't "bad" but it won't win any awards or sell any systems.

Metal Gear Solid 4 has been reviewed and it has received a disappointing score of only 8 out of 10 by Edge.

Here is what Edge had to say:

Metal Gear Solid has always been a story of duty in the face of obsolescence, and if this is really it for Kojima’s chapter – and who knows, maybe the entire series – his duty has been fulfilled. MGS4 is not the game it could have been; nor is it the game it would have been had the series grown with the benefit of hindsight; nor is it the game it should have been if you believed that early trailer.

Kojima has, of course, admitted to the game’s failings. The greatest is the size of its maps, each venue split between several zones, themselves divided by loading screens. So your objective, rather than something tangible and relevant, often becomes just a marker on the HUD which doubles as a reset point for enemies, making escapes unduly easy. And it creates a sense of restlessness, allowing you all the time you want to explore but giving the levels little space to explore themselves.

Technology aside, the problem is that MGS4’s agenda, unlike that of its predecessor, is not its own. Not content to just rekindle memories of Metal Gear, the game insists on physically revisiting them, veering this way and that, back and forth in time, the fates of its characters wrenched in improbable directions. An entire game could (and someday might) plug the gap in Raiden’s backstory, the Patriots’ one-time pet project returning as a Frank Jaeger-style cyborg ninja. And while few would begrudge the return of Metal Gear Solid’s classic bosses in the animalized form of The Beauty And Beast Unit, the shadow of MGS3’s Cobra Unit looms large.

That game felt like a dialogue between Kojima and the player, a determined blend of action, cinema and podcast. In contrast, MGS4 feels more like a genie struggling to find enough goodies in the lamp, slave to the demands of everyone but itself.

......................

And look at what Eurogamer said at the end of their review:

You're sorry to see Snake go. But should you be? Guns of the Patriots is a frustrating, fractured game that turns Metal Gear Solid's world upside down several times over, but never changes it. It just burrows deeper into what fans love and detractors hate than ever before, and it will make few converts. It's a crying shame, given how many genuinely classic gaming moments there are here, given the countless exquisite creative touches, but Metal Gear Solid 4 is its own worst enemy. You could not ask for a funnier, cleverer, more ambitious or inspired or over-the-top conclusion to the Metal Gear Solid series, but it's definitely time to move on. We love you, Snake. Don't come back.

[mike_mgoblue]

I'm not saying that Metal Gear Solid 4 is a "bad" game...I am simply saying that Metal Gear Solid 4 has received review scores that are significantly lower than Sony, Konami, and PS3 fans were hoping for. Therefore, Metal Gear Solid 4 is a disappointment.

MGS4 is the sort of game that a lot of people will rent now that it has received such mixed reviews. I decided to cancel my preorder of MGS4, and the person I spoke with on the phone said, "Another person cancelling a preorder for Metal Gear Solid."

Edge isn't the only place to rate MGS4 with a score of 8 out of 10 or lower. Eurogamer also rated MGS4 with a score of 8 out of 10. 360 Gamer Magazine UK rated it an 8 out of 10. And GameCritics also rated MGS4 an 8 out of 10. I saw reviews on TV that gave it a score of only 3 out of 5, and a newspaper rated it as low as 6 out of 10.

That's why, in my opinion, Metal Gear Solid 4 really is the biggest disappointment of the year.

[Closing]

You don't even have a ps3, and you've been posting the same spam all day.

Mods please block this fake account at least from the gamer zone.

[lonestarmt]

http://megacritic.com/games...

http://www.gamerankings.com...

its real nice that you picked out the worst ones. Sorry guy, but your totally wrong. Look at the links. In fact many sites and magazines have given the game perfect scores and ign gave it 9.9. Its kicking ninja gaiden II arse. So one could say NGII was a bigger failure. Sorry, would say nice try, but it wasn't lol

[solid_dwayne]

If MGO is included it is only fair that it be reviewed with the game it was done for GTA4 and that game got a Full 10 from ign.com
this is what IGN HAD TO SAY

10 Presentation
From the opening videos to the end credits, the attention to detail throughout Guns of the Patriots is astonishing, setting new standards for production values in games.
10 Graphics

The visuals in MGS 4 are as cutting-edge as you can rightfully expect from the latest videogame blockbuster, boasting as much style as technical expertise.

10 Sound
The surround sound effects are stunning, having actual in-game effects, from using birdsong to detect enemies to choosing your own tunes.

10 Gameplay
Guns of the Patriots is the definitive MGS, taking stealth mechanics to new heights and throwing in so much more that you just have to discover it for yourself.

9.5 Lasting Appeal(WTF)
Aside from the fact that the cut-scenes bear repeated viewing, you’ll want to play through MGS 4 again and again, simply to unlock ever more exotic weapons, items and player rankings.

These people are crazy
This Game deserves nothing but a SOLID 10

[Presentist]

You people haven't played the game yet, and you're criticizing people who have played through it for doing their jobs?

Shut the f*** up, stop complaining, play the game when it comes out and grow up.

[X]

It's ok that they rate the game how they see fit. To think that everyone will like MGS4 perfectly is to be foolish. I know I will enjoy the game because 1) I am a fan of the series 2) I know that if it's by Kojima, I'll most likely enjoy the game. You, the gamer, must decide what the best games are. For me, it is the game that brings me entertainment that is the best. My instincts tell me that MGS4 will be a experience I will enjoy now and years from now when I replay it again as a trip down memory lane. No score can ever change that.

[N2NOther]

"MGS4 cutscenes are long. Fine because they flush out more story then most games. Ok you don't like cutscenes fair enough, can you skip them, yes you can, so is it a flaw? I don't think so. If they aren't forcing something on you then how come its a flaw?"

If the story is important to the game, then in order to get the story, and thus part of what you paid for, then you are forced to watch them. Skipping an easter egg is one thing. Skipping chunks of story integral to the game making cohesive sense, is entirely another. How many GOOD films have parts of the film that are skipable? Where you can fast foward to the action, as it were.

This may not be a flaw to you, but I can definitely see it as a flaw to others. I absolutely loathe MGS2 because of the cutscene/gameplay ratio.

And why is this hard to swallow, anyway? The game isn't even out yet. If you're not predetermined to love it, then there is always a possibility that you might agree.

[SpikeSpiegel]

They are just opinions.. Nothing more. If giving MGS an 8 is a hard cookie to swallow it is because you are giving someone else's opinion way too much power over your own. That and if it is such a hard cookie to swallow, then maybe you should try drinking some milk. **lol**