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Jinxstar

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Remakes. Are they worth it?

Remakes. What is it about remakes? Gamers want all kinds of old games remade. Final Fantasy 7 is a big one. Recently I have also heard Metal Gear Solid 1, Killer Instinct, Resident Evil 1 & 2, Golden Eye, Almost any other Final Fantasy title and Zelda: Ocarina of Time. While I will give you that these are all classic and good games. I personally see little to no reason to remake them.  However let’s go through the reasons why gamers want a remake and why it might not be such a good idea.

What does it take to create a good remake? While I will go into games later for now let’s go over other things people in general have wanted remakes of… The formula for a remake of any kind is nearly impossible to get right. Cars, Books, Movies, Music, Fashion… The list goes on and it feels like people ask for these things all the time but when they get them modernized or “Remade” critics, fans and everyone who wanted them turn their backs and call the director/ actors/writers/artists and say things like “Morons. A monkey could have done it better”. Let me give you a few examples outside games that might open your minds a little. The Ford Shelby GT500. While critics vary on the quality of the machine most would say “For the price get a classic and rebuild it”… People had wanted it remade for a long time and the hype surrounding it was incredible… However it could never live up to the classic that is the 69 Shelby GT500… No one is really buying them either. Many other cars like the VW bug or the Camaro fall into a similar slot of remakes that don’t do well…

How about movie or book remakes. Some can be remade with a fresh coat of paint fairly well. Usually these are Zombie movies or horror. Lately there are some comic book movies that have done fairly well but diehard fans of comics(Like many here are for games) nitpick and ridicule the little things “Nick Fury isn’t black” or “The Hulk got hit by a gamma bomb not a stupid laser” Or my favorite “The freaking spider was radioactive and NOT ’biologically engineered’ *grumble grumble”… Very few other genres can be remade well and are considered classics for a reason. Look at Romeo and Juliet. The book revolutionized the way play writes thought and changed entertainment the world over. Now look at the 1996 remake… There were a few people who liked it but for the most part it was mocked and shunned as an insult to the classic. Anyone who has read a book and then seen the movie usually gets the feeling they “Missed the boat” or “OMG I can’t believe they left out X,Y or Z thingy” hence they “Sold out” and “Failed at movie”… When it’s usually much more than that.

I could go on for days but in truth remakes are very rarely accepted the world over no matter what medium they come in. You all know this to be true. Remakes are very hard to do right period and why they are avoided like the plague.


Remakes done right.

There are very few remakes that have been done well. What does that mean? Critical acclaim? User interest and sales? Well I feel it means a number of things but mainly keeping the core ideas precise while expanding very little in the right areas… The only 2 examples I can think of recently in games is Bionic Commando rearmed and Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo HD Remix. They weren’t perfect and they had their flaws but overall I feel the time/effort and added content made them worthwhile. I also grew up on the originals. It was a fresh take. I thought the dev’s did great jobs but I am in the minority it seems…


BC Rearmed has qualities unlike other remakes which have been shunned in the past. The Developers wanted to make sure they got the timing of the arm hook and everything perfect. They did a good job while expanding on the bosses in a unique way.

SSF2THDR was done well. There were very few things added. They were added to balance the game even more so. The concepts were taken from Tournament masters and the game was overseen by a tournament champion as well who is a brilliant mind when it comes to game design and philosophy.

However many people disliked these games…

Rampant moaning everywhere like someone had personally offended them with their B.O.

Remakes done wrong.  
Many gamers want a game “Redone”… Most of the games they want aren’t even that old. Why does it need an overhaul? Is it broken? I can give a few examples of games which have been remade and failed. The game that has probably been changed and challenged more times than any would be Tetris. A masterfully thought out idea which has seen more changes then a runway model… While adding things like bonuses and speed and “ZOMG I CRUSH YOU POWER” in versus mode… Adding different things to it usually doesn’t improve the game because at its core it’s best when left pure. The best Tetris is simply the original. It can’t be improved upon and any changes are “Gimmicky” at best. It would be like remaking chess. While I have seen some pretty cool versions of chess nothing tops the original. Asking for a remake of chess is simply insane. Instead why not ask the person who came up with the idea of perfect balance, strategy, puzzle, insight and everything else to expand and make something new? What would be wrong with that? Why would you want Chess 2.0 when you could have the spin off or something else instead? Something totally new and original from the creative mind of a genius…   Why they shouldn’t remake it.   Look, the truth is gamers are a very very hard bunch to please. These developers need to justify to us that 65$ is worth it. Quite honestly most gamers get incredibly up in arms over change. Let’s use my favorite example of recent times. Diablo 3. This game is not even a remake. It’s a sequel but fans of Diablo and Diablo 2 went completely crazy when the game took on a “Brighter” atmosphere. It’s not as dark and dingy as it once was and many people blamed influence of World of Warcraft “They want the kiddies to play” or they blamed to creative design team “Sell outs” and a huge storm of crap rained down after the first screens were released. With blame going every which way and fans really pissed off. The team came out and basically said “We want people to see what they are killing. The dark atmosphere of old was basically a way to stream the game faster and we have moved beyond 1999”. 

Prince of Persia(2008), Pac Man (Adventures in Time), Bionic Commando(2009), Bomberman(XBL) and Super Street Fighter 2 HD Turbo Remix(2008) are a few current examples of “Remakes” or just new versions… Call it what you will… that flopped pretty hard. They were all asked for by the fans and they got remade… Fans went crazy and condemned them for the most part… They either “didn’t hold true to the original” or had “Outdated simple controls” or “The team that designed it had no clue what the original was about” or “Was way too hard”… I could go on but I feel I made my point. Think about other “Remakes” you have seen and how they fared… Probably not well…

Why we shouldn’t ask.

I know many of you don’t want to hear “Final Fantasy 7 does not deserve a remake” but truthfully it doesn’t. Why should it get a remake? What does it fail in that it needs to be remade? What does it lack that should be changed?

 

Think about what you would want to see(I will use FF7 as the example but apply it to your game. Think about how it could all play out). Mostly updated graphics right? Well why? Is the old game horrible looking? Can you not see what’s going on? If the development team did change FF7 and made it more serious instead of cartoony how many people would be mad? If they made it off the wall cartoony how many would be mad? If the backgrounds were less rounded and bright and more sharp and dark what would they say?… If they made it look like advent children how many would say “Uninspired company/team” or “The actions and cartoony nature don’t suit the serious characters” because the script did have many cartoony ideas to it… There would be fan boy hate and venom spewed across SE’s name by every person on the internet. How they “Don’t hold true to the original idea”… You get the idea.

Better controls you say? Better combat? Well FF7 is a great game. I beat it in Japanese the first time I played it and I don’t know a single word in that language. I just did trial and error and eventually won.  The combat even then was a little bland honestly. Summoning the “Knights of the Round” was cool but completely bland for about 3 minutes after you hit X… So would you want SE to change the controls for their remake? Change the combat? Make it more like Final Fantasy (Fill in a number here) or more like some other RPG as an example? No matter what they changed to this people would be outraged. Change it from turn based to real time. Change to a karma system. Change to a more strategic system, Combo system, Rage system… There is no winning and if they keep it the same people will complain and say they were lazy… Or that it feels dated… Which even at the time of release it kind of did. If they changed nothing why even do a remake?

Change the sounds/color scheme/story/characters… Change nothing just add a few cut scenes or some content… This would all end just as badly as anything else.

Seriously ask yourself “What would I want them to change? What does the original lack that I want to see changed?” Then realize that 95% of the fanboys out there think you’re a moron and that what you want changed was a core mechanic of the game and blah blah blah. Then ask yourself “What would be the true benefit of changing the original? Is it broken? Is it really that old that it needs a makeover?” You’ll probably realize you feel as I do and that its fine the way it is.

What we should ask for.

Well this is a good question. Someone asked me once “Why not do a Bionic Commando Rearmed style remake of FF7?” I didn’t have much of a reply at the time. Honestly though who would this benefit? The fans? They already own in on PS1 or PC. The people who never got a chance to play it? Well they can either buy the downloadable release or an older version.   So what I feel we should ask for is another take on it. Maybe take the FF7 story and use another group that were working behind the scenes to help Cloud and his gang. They were hidden out and followed them secretly from place to place planting treasure chests and helping take down monsters from behind and helped out without “Team Cloud” knowing… This would go back to FF7 and give another perspective. This would expand on the teams concept. Anything changed or updated would not really be arguable.  It would be a win/win. Do a prequel. Do an epilogue. Do an alternate story line. As long as they don’t mess with the original then I am happy. They won’t mess it up. They won’t hit the crap storm and fail like so many others have. Just release FF7 for download. Up scaled to HD and that’s it.

Doing a full remake would take a lot of time. Many resources and quality/creative people would be forced to be uncreative and useless to rehash a decade old game… They should revisit the story and characters just like advent children did. Why redo something when the team could be making something new, creative and fresh instead. We already have FF7 do you really need a remade one? How long before we want a 3rd remake of it? Why waste the time when we could be seeing something better?

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ZombieAutopsy4080d ago

I want a FF7 remake but not until next gen.

Jinxstar4080d ago

I'm not saying it would be bad... I personally would just like them to revisit the story in some other way...

ZombieAutopsy4080d ago (Edited 4080d ago )

I hear you on that one, i would like a continuation of the story but i wouldnt complain one bit if it was just a straight up remake.

Hell itd be nice if they remake Crisis Core, FF7, and Advent child all into one game for the next gen.

kwicksandz4080d ago

Anyone who argues against a goldeneye remake deserves 0 bubbles, gamerzone ban and an ignore IMO.

starvinbull4080d ago (Edited 4080d ago )

Quite frankly the elephant in the room is the fact that 90% of your reservations are unfounded. Why? Because SE have already made a real-time demo and that in itself has led to most of the fan demand for a remake. Everything visual was dealt with in the RTDemo.
All combat changes would be needless for 1 reason, Materia.
FF7 from the ground up is intricately embedded with the idea of Materia, Mako, Lifestream so the Materia system would have to be kept in and no fan would say otherwise.

Really what most fans want from a FF7 remake and feel free to disagree but what they want is for FF7 to be made visually modern. The style, the music, the settings could all be improved upon but kept authentic. The RTDemo pretty much did what I wanted from a remade FF7 and I haven't heard anyone else counter that point.

Why do people pay good money for films on Blu-Ray that they own on DVD or VHS? They want to have the same experience enhanced.
Why do husbands not object to their wives getting boob jobs or house fire victims not complain when their 27 inch tele is replaced with a 42 inch tele on the insurance?

Your argument is that if you enjoy something you should never change it, there are numerous examples where that rule simply doesn't apply.

Jinxstar4079d ago

Starvinbull

"Quite frankly the elephant in the room is the fact that 90% of your reservations are unfounded."

Unfounded? How so. I feel I backed up my reasoning with a great number of examples and reasons why... How is that unfounded?

"SE have already made a real-time demo and that in itself has led to most of the fan demand for a remake. Everything visual was dealt with in the RTDemo."

And because fans want something that means they must do it. Fans wanted diablo 3 and then shunned blizzard for the art direction they took. Fans want a lot of things but taking creative people and forcing them to rehash old content in a "New" way without making it "New" is entirely unreasonable in my eyes...

"All combat changes would be needless for 1 reason, Materia.
FF7 from the ground up is intricately embedded with the idea of Materia, Mako, Lifestream so the Materia system would have to be kept in and no fan would say otherwise."

So what your saying is "Change nothing"... So why do a remake... The only ting you are saying so far is you want a graphical update... Seems like a total waste of talent. That and the fact that the older visuals of the blocky characters made it more comical.... Is it all about graphics?

"Really what most fans want from a FF7 remake and feel free to disagree but what they want is for FF7 to be made visually modern. The style, the music, the settings could all be improved upon but kept authentic. The RTDemo pretty much did what I wanted from a remade FF7 and I haven't heard anyone else counter that point."

Ok... So it is all about graphics... A huge waste of time when something new could be made. A huge waste of talent when something new could be made... Kinda sad that its so important to people to see the characters in more detail instead of getting something entirely new and original...

"Why do people pay good money for films on Blu-Ray that they own on DVD or VHS?"

I don't know anyone who does this. Maybe the super rich or people who are super tech heads or something. But thats just their thing like buying comic books with different covers...

"They want to have the same experience enhanced."

It's a small minority who would really pay for that minor upgrade... Thats just it though it's an "upgrade" not a "Remake"

"Why do husbands not object to their wives getting boob jobs or house fire victims not complain when their 27 inch tele is replaced with a 42 inch tele on the insurance?"

Ok I've gone with you so far but you've gone from remakes to alterations and insurance fraud.... It's not the same.

"Your argument is that if you enjoy something you should never change it, there are numerous examples where that rule simply doesn't apply."

My argument is not that at all. My argument is that it's very hard to do right. My argument is that what enhances something for someone detracts for someone else. Like I said above... YOU think it needs a graphical update I think the graphics made it comical and enhanced the experience for me. It made it a cartoony and more lighthearted story with serious undertones. Big bulging containers round edged buildings... It was much more enjoyable to ME then a serious straight edged look may appeal to YOU.....

My argument is that we can not agree as gamers on what makes a good remake not that "Nothing should ever change"

@Kwicksand

"Anyone who argues against a goldeneye remake deserves 0 bubbles, gamerzone ban and an ignore IMO."

I don't think it deserves one. I'll take Modern warfare or uncharted anyday over a goldeneye remake...

starvinbull4078d ago

There's another flaw in your repost. That is that you say the blocky charm and unrealistic looking graphics made it charming and true they did. Square did their best with the hardware available. Would they have done more if they could? Just look at any of the cutscenes in FF7, they're breathtaking.

Cloud Barret and the gang all struggle to hold onto the highwind as a giant earth beast comes towering out of the sea.

Did they imitate the blocky look in these cut scenes? No! They opted for a more realistic look almost advent children like. Would they have made the whole game in this style given unlimited resources and hardware capabilities? almost certainly.

To use a quote "if a little is good, a lot must be better, right?"

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 4078d ago
Tony P4080d ago

I don't have a problem with remakes. I don't actively promote them or seek their (re)development, but I'd buy a good one.

Making a good remake strikes me as difficult. On one hand you have to be true to what made the game great in the first place, but then you can't make only minor updates like graphics. And you have to make the game attractive to today's market even though the game might have sold/reviewed favorably in the 90s. And to me that means changes. Maybe changes the original fans, people clamoring for the remake in the first place, might not like.

Meryl4080d ago

yes its a hard balance thats why s-e refuses to do a re-make, they don't want to spoil ff7.

starvinbull4080d ago

I think budget has more to do with it. They would undoubtedly sell 6m+ yet to outlay the money required is quite frankly beyond most companies.
This generation they have stopped trying to make epics and have focused on smaller less innovative games. None of which had a good press so far.

thor4079d ago

The reason people hate remakes/sequels in general is purely down to nostagia.

When they first played FF7, they thought "WOW this is sooo awesome, the 3D graphics, the story, the gameplay mechanics WOW". Now during the design process of FF7, there are many decisions that they made on a whim that could easily have gone the other way, but you'd still have loved the game anyway.

For example, they could have decided that KOTR were too powerful and put their damage at half of what it is normally. Thousands of decisions about how much damage different things should do, how much time it takes to charge up materia, level up were made during FF7's development.

But now think what would happen if they remade FF7, and KOTR did half damage. Can you imagine the uproar from fans? Waaa waaaa KOTR are USELESS now you POS can't even remake the game properly IT'S SO SIMPLE how did you F*** this up so badly this is the WORST GAME EVER.

Yet that same decision could have been made during the original development and the game would have got the same rave reviews and reception.

It's a similar reason why fans of most games always think "hmm the first game was the best, after that they went downhill". No - it's just the nostalgia factor making you think that. In fact, the graphics, controls, immersion, balance & fun is greater in the other games, and if you'd played those first you'd surely think they were best.

LexAnders4079d ago

Thank you for bringing back those memories Thor.Yes it was truly awesome back when FF7 was first release.We just could not believe the cutting edge graphics.As for the story and gameplay,well it was just another well done Square hit.So why do a remake of a nearly perfect game you ask?Well I think most of us fans would buy a remake or"like Jinxstar said it" an enhance version of the game whit only the graphics updated for the ps3.Granted this is just a fantasy,simply because it would probably cost more to do than the profit they would make.But enough of FF7,I wanted to share my opinion on one remake I bought on Ps store.The name is TMNT turtles in times.I think I can safely assume that any one who owned a Snes played this game.This is the way a remake should be done,nothing was touch on the story and the controls.As for the gameplay still the same except for the online feature up to four player and an alternate game mode,and they manage to update the graphics leaving this "cheesy" aspect we could feel playing the game back then! Ps:yes i know its not the Snes remake and there is little change "boss" to the game but i still stand by what I wrote,even if the people and reviewer said it was total c**p.
Lex saying: have a good day et jouer jusqua ce que vos pouces saigne!

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