We shouldn't stop people from jailbreaking if it doesn't infringe our own rights!

I think we are at a sort of impasse: how to respond to such things as piracy and jailbreaking and such.

I’ve been called every derogatory thing because of pure speculation as to where my stance actually is on this issue. If you care about little else than to defend your favorite gaming company like some kind of blind fanboy, then I suggest that you turn back now, because I’m not going to validate anyone’s POV just because they want me to. I’ve never done that before, and I am not about to. I meant what I said back in 2008 about Microsoft, and I’ve done so now.

What I will do, however, is to clarify as to what my stance is on this. This may be a little long, so those that are going to do the TL;DR spiel can leave now, too.

For one, what sparked this is someone complaining about an ad that appeared on N4G that had something to do with pirated PS3 games. As I have ABP installed on Firefox, I have yet to see this ad, but while N4G is responsible for a lot of the bad things that happen on this site (with the whole “kill all the hackers” being one of them), they are not here. This is because the advertising agency responsible for the ads is a third party. They choose what to run. Of course, once found, N4G can tell them not to, but they cannot be aware of every single ad. That’s outside their immediate control.

As for the ad itself, I understand the site’s general stance on piracy. That goes without saying. However, those that take an anti-piracy stance just because of blind fanboyism (or those that side with those like Hotz and Anonymous for the same reason) are doing it wrong.

I took Hotz’ side on the CFW issue, and did not regret it in the slightest. Hell, I was even one of them that donated to him (five bucks). This is because of my stance.

What is it? It is that, as long as it does not infringe on anyone else’s ability to enjoy their system the way they want to, and as long as you don’t hurt their right, they should be able to enjoy their system however they please. If you want to install CFW onto your PS3 to play homebrew games (whatever your definition of that may be), then be my guest. You’re not stopping me from playing Gran Turismo 5 in any way. Hell, if you find a good HB game that you think I should play, then by all means, convince me to convert to the dark side for that one. There SHOULD be competition in the gaming industry, and Sony should not be scared of the homebrew community (and yes, PS3 homebrew games do exist. Just use Google and stop being lazy). Hell, even if it is a SNES emulator you’re playing with, I don’t care (hell, who HASN’T used SNES9x or MAME?). As long as you’re not infringing on my right to do what I want to do, and as long as I’m not trying to stop you from having your fun, then why should I stop you?

It’s obvious that homebrew has not hurt Nintendo’s bottom dollar, so I’m not sure why one site claimed that Sony SHOULD stop people from playing homebrew games on the PS3. If you are allowed to play them on the PC, then why should you stop them from playing them on the PS3?

I’m not saying you should be allowed to cheat online and screw up player rankings, or that someone should be allowed to access personal information about you that can be used for identity theft, or anything like that. People try to equate one with the other because they know that if they do that, they have the excuse to blindly follow whoever it is that is saying that you shouldn’t be allowed to do such things. They would never have to actually explain what is so wrong. All you have to do is scream “piracy”, and they will rush to your defense before they even know what the subject actually is. Hell, why should they care? They’re only blind fanboys! Why do they even NEED a reason to follow you?

But not everyone who is anti-piracy is so because they are blind fanboys. That’s another way of confusing the issue to benefit their point of view because of their insecurity of being able to validate their POV with actual facts. If you call out either them or their savior company, you’re playing for the other side, and no opposing POV is safe, civil or otherwise. Neither are those that would support Hotz’ POV. You think he was trying to enable piracy and cheating? How do you know that he was or wasn’t? He said he wasn’t, and there was nothing actually proven one way or another.

So this is where I am at on this issue: if I were to install CFW on my PS3 and never again take it online at all, and then install something from PS3 Homebrew on my PS3 (or, GASP, install Linux on my PS3), but never touch PSN on that PS3 again, does that stop you from doing anything you want to do on your PS3? Does that constitute piracy on my end? How does that hurt you or Sony? I’m not trying to be a smart ass. I’m just asking legitimate questions that the blind fanboys seem unwilling to answer in a civil way, if in any way. Hell, even IF I install SNES9x on it and play Super Mario World on it, is that something that stops you from enjoying your games in any way (and think about how you answer that, too)?

I ask this because this site is getting things completely confused. The blind fanboys are trying to confuse things because they WANT us to think the way they do, and the rest of the site seems to just go with it. I wouldn’t be as upset about it if it wasn’t so many of us doing this, but unfortunately, there is that many unwilling to stop taking things so personally.

I disapproved of HipHopGamer’s way of showing that he disagreed with Hotz’. Seriously, HHG, you resort to a rap like THAT just because Sony was the target? I thought of you better than to resort to cheap…oh, wait: “Uncharted 3 coming to 360!” My bad, you WOULD resort to cheap shots against Hotz (after all, that’s how you’ve built most of your career). Then again, you weren’t alone: the name calling started here, as well as the “kill that f**k” BS began there, too. So why am I just blaming you for acting like some hysteric, blind fanboy?

A day or so ago, there was a Bitmob parody article saying that the author was who brought down PSN because he accidently slept on the PS button on his controller. Of course, it was meant as a joke to be funny. However, the amount of people willing to bash it because they didn’t find it funny was outlandish. It was as if the article hurt their feelings. They took it too seriously and/or too personally, and went so far as to judge the type of people that WOULD find it funny. The Bitmob article did one thing successfully, if nothing else: shown us just how much we have been overreacting about anything regarding the PSN issue. The reactions to it on this site prove to me that they were hurt that they got exposed. Of course, they were exposed before when they cheered Anonymous being hacked! That showed me the real reason they were against Anonymous and Hotz: they drank Sony’s milkshake!

Note that while I don’t condone how Anonymous went about proving their point (anyone who thinks I did is an idiot), I can see what their reasons were: to show Sony that they were upset about their stubborn stance on whatever it is they are trying to prevent. To be honest, I’m not sure if I would want Anonymous’ help, but seeing as how they’ve been on the right side of certain fights (their fight on Fred Phelps comes to mind), it’s hard to not at least consider the offer if you're with a similar stance as mine.

Again, I’m not saying that we should suddenly condone piracy and cheating. I’m saying that as long as it doesn’t hurt me or you, then why should I be that concerned about stopping you from doing whatever it is with your system you want to do? YOU bought it, and it’s in YOUR house, hooked up to YOUR television set. Why should I care if you want to play that homebrew game on your PS3? I’m able to separate the good from the bad. I don’t know why no one else on this site can, but I am able to do so.

Hell, I’m not even sure why people are bitching about the OtherOS lawsuit. Sony told those people that they wouldn’t touch it, but they did, and then possibly lied about why they did it (playing the piracy card in the means of garnering support for the removal when that was not the real reason). There are people on this site that are saying “well, no one used it”. Sony felt enough people used it to make such a guarantee, and plus, if you didn’t care about it, then why do you care enough to make the proclamation that it shouldn’t be reinstated. You didn’t care that it was on there before, yet you’re damn sure wanting Sony to fight to make sure it stays off your system. Again, “I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE”!

So yeah, that’s my stance. The TL;DR version of it is this: I am not against fighting piracy as long as we know that there are several interpretations as to what piracy even is, I am against stopping people from doing things that they do in the privacy of their homes when it does nothing to infringe on our right to do anything we want to do, I don’t know why we have to prove everyone right about this site’s “fanboy cess pool”, why we didn’t care before but we do now, or why we are constantly unable to separate one argument from the other, or why we have to take everything so personally and fuel the hysteria constantly.

Hopefully, that clarifies it.

Oh, and finally: someone posted a blog about that ad and used a pic of the ad as their blog pic. It showed a gold PS3 controller. Personally, I’d jump on that ad’s offer just for the gold controller. I don’t know about any of you, but that controller looks freakin SWEET!

[Christopher]

Piracy infringes on all gamers.

Executives make decisions on what games are made, what aren't, how much to invest, and what platform, and more based on the potential sales. Piracy adversely affects sales.

It's easy to say "I don't pirate and I still play the games that are made" and act like you're not affected. But just because you don't see how it affects you doesn't mean it doesn't. Even if you ignore the fact that DRM, DLC, online passes, the price of games increasing with each generation, and similar changes are also due in part to piracy.

[JD_Shadow]

Yeah, we get all that.

The question was if, one, homebrew equates to piracy, and two, if we are able to separate the bad from the good.

You completely ignored the point and said something we already went over.

[ZombieAssassin]

I don't believe homebrew is piracy but it can cause a couple of problems...the main being people would create programs to cheat and of course people will use them online. Trust me as someone who played PSP games online it ruins it big time and pretty much kills of the communities very quickly.

I don't think people will ever separate them though because sadly jailbreaking is mainly used for piracy, yea some will use the cool "apps" people would make and do things like watch any kind of video format and such on their product but for the most part I'd say it's used for piracy.

[Christopher]

Actually, you called out jailbreaking, which allows both homebrew and piracy.

As far as does homebrew equate to piracy? Only in so far that enabling homebrew enables piracy. You can't have one without the other. So, the point of one or the other is a moot point, IMHO.

[JD_Shadow]

You can't, however, blame one for the other, which is what is going on here. Everything can be used for bad things. Hell, I can use a knife to cut a steak in order to make it easier for me to eat. I can also use that very same knife to stab you in the heart. Because it's possible to do the latter, should I be disallowed from using it for the former?

What about web design? I can make a child pornography site if I really wanted to. Does that mean I shouldn't be allowed to make a gaming site or anything else because I would have the capacity to make a very idiotic decision?

Hell, if we judged things based on what COULD happen, we wouldn't have much to even do except twiddle our thumbs.

So how does your logic make it feasible to prevent one thing because it COULD do the other?

Remember, too, that some people on the internet were claiming the very same thing about the iPhone jailbreak before that became legalized (I know how much people hate the PS3 jailbreak being compared to the iPhone one, but work with me here for a moment). That it could lead to piracy and thus, it shouldn't be allowed to be possible without a sea of lawsuits and arrests. Obviously, that didn't happen, at least not in such a high mass that it warranted a second thought.

@BobbbyLight below (because I'm not wasting a bubble on that):

"I'm sorry, where are all the kick-ass, must have homebrew apps? Because I haven't seen them."

I stopped reading there. You obviously didn't read the part where I demanded that you use THE GOOGLE if you don't think they exist. Stop being so goddamned lazy and do some research before you post, because you obviously didn't!

[Christopher]

***You can't, however, blame one for the other***

I absolutely can. Every single hacker who jailbreaks knows with 100% certainty that they are also allowing piracy through their actions. Sure, they themselves are not doing it and may speak out against it, but they gave the keys and security codes of the house to those who do pirate.

It's like you're saying that a gun manufacturer doesn't know their guns will be used for criminal purposes. They know they will and they still make them.

[JD_Shadow]

"I absolutely can."

No, you can't! You dodged half of the point I was even making. You keep dodging things and/or ignoring half of what I say for some odd reason.

I'll say it again: if I have a knife and that knife could be used to kill someone, does that mean I should not have the knife to cut a steak? Hell, I could stab you as soon as you give me the knife, so should you take that risk? That person 100% knows that giving me that knife opens things up for me having that possibility to go psycho!

So, just because it opens it up to piracy/cheating (and piracy is possible on the PS3 even without CFW), does that mean we should completely restrict and target homebrew?

I don't understand why people are constantly, still, saying it opens it up yet saying that you are guilty until proven innocent!

[Christopher]

***No, you can't! You dodged half of the point I was even making. You keep dodging things and/or ignoring half of what I say for some odd reason.***

I'm not dodging anything. You just think the rest is worth debating when it has no importance on my opinion. Perhaps if you had a worthwhile argument to make, I'd reply to it.

Do I blame hackers who edit the software IP of others to enabling piracy? Yes.

Do I think this means hackers should be sent to jail, prosecuted, and penalized for creating homebrew? No. What they are doing is, typically, not illegal and most of them do not enable piracy.

Would I love to see laws change to put restrictions on what hackers can do with regard to the modification of software IP that isn't theirs? Absolutely.

This is my opinion, something you have no right to tell me I can't have. Also something you should really see what I am saying instead of adding in that you think I mean anything other than the "blame" of actions made by others against a group of other individuals.

I have no need for the rest of your arguments, they are incomparable to a process which enables others to perform impossible to track illegal actions.

***I don't understand why people are constantly, still, saying it opens it up yet saying that you are guilty until proven innocent!***

No one said this. What you're interpreting is someone saying they blame those hackers who have enabled piracy. That does not equate to blaming all hackers since not all hackers have enabled piracy. Once you enable piracy, I blame you.

[JD_Shadow]

First, where did I ever say that you didn't have the right to that opinion. I was saying that you were missing half the argument I was making (which is probably not relevant to yours because it's a different argument; it's as if you read a different blog than what I wrote). If it sounded like I did, I apologize, as I didn't mean to come off that way (yes, I am passionate and blunt with my opinions).

What I'm saying is this: when you talk about the "dangers of piracy", you're preaching to the choir. You're telling us things we've heard and/or agree with already. I think there are too many different interpretations of what piracy is to just make an opinion without considering all the arguments, but you're not saying anything we haven't already heard.

What I'm trying to say to you is that you can't just go and say "oh, this guy jailbroke his system, so he's pirating games." You're saying that they know that it enables piracy, but does that mean that they WILL do what it is said to enable? Maybe they DON'T know that it enables the other side of things. That's what my analogies are trying to say: that we can't just restrict things just because of a possibility. That's like accusing someone of something they haven't even done yet. Of course, this could be you thinking that I'm telling you that you can't have that opinion, which is not what this means. This means I disagree that your assessment answers all the questions raised. We know it could enable piracy, but so does the PC. Should we ban people from using PC's, too?

My points are relevant and "worthwhile" to your comments because they point out the things that you fail to bring up that, if you had done so, you might have a better understanding of what it was that you were answering to. Plus, you accuse me of telling you to shut up, yet you type out that first line of "if you had a worthwhile argument, I might reply to it!" Sounds more like it's something that you don't have much of an answer for (if you do, please give it) and are trying to cover up that you don't have one. Of course, I'm just assuming based upon what you've said so far, and I could be wrong for doing that. But since you've falsely accused me of saying that you have no right to say your piece, I feel like turnabout's fair play.

Again, you have every right to have that opinion, but it's also within my right to respond with my own and disagree with yours just as much as you have with mine. It doesn't mean I am telling you you can't have that opinion. Of course, if you were saying something like "hackers should die of cancer" or something like that, then yeah, I might have a problem with THAT.

My opinion is that, as long as you're not hurting anyone else or doing anything that would be deemed illegal when you jailbreak something, then they should be free to do that. The things you mention are nice, and would be nice to have, and we COULD have them if Sony would stop trying to believe that jailbreakers = automatic pirates/cheaters without even the slightest clue or care as to how their actions are affecting everyone instead of the select few they say they are targeting (and THEIR definition of pirates might not be OURS).

I commend them for trying to out the people who want to steal our credit care info. That's all well and good, and it would be all good if they would just stop there, but they have had a history of NOT just stopping there. What they are doing is targeting everyone, and their blind sheep go and support their favorite company no matter what as their mouthpiece. It doesn't sit right with me because I thought the Sony faithful were smarter than to just blindly follow the leader.

[BobbbyLight]

I'm sorry, where are all the kick-ass, must have homebrew apps? Because I haven't seen them.

Homebrew is such a lame excuse to crack a system. People understand that when they are buying a 360, PS3, PSP... whatever, that the intention of the console is to play games and access whatever networks of content they are made to access. They are not made to be hacked so you can run a cool screen saver or so you can play a video format that does already work with the console.

On top of the fact that nothing useful seems to ever come out of the homebrew scene for consoles (Except X-Box Media Center), we know that the vast majority of people who jailbreak do it to play pirated games. Pirated games equates to more DRM, higher prices, online access codes and whatever other thing has been thrown out there that is screwing honest customers while the pirates have a field day.

Bottom line is this, not all electronic devices are open source. If you want to develop software, that's what the PC is for. Don't buy a PS3 and try and turn it into a PC, it doesn't help anyone.

[rob6021]

When I look at the killer homebrew apps I might want - emulators and media players - they're both basically piracy; emulators have few legal roms you'd want to play, there's not a lot of point in playing mkv files other than watching pirated movies. Cheating apps are no good if there's not a solid way to keep them from being used online - or unfairly earning achievement/trophies.

The appeal of piracy is certainly there, but there's a point where you have to keep it from happening or the game will not be able to profit. While I'm no fan of copyrights, this is how our world works - profit drives everything. We're a long ways from establishing a working alternative model for creating these huge games without the budgets they have. Maybe some day programming will be easy enough for everyone to do it and all games will be shared creations - we're not there yet we need lots of coordination and huge teams to do this.

[Otheros00]

They do affect you. When you open a console to homebrew it enables you to modify the game files and cheat. What made you think people won't pirate if the have the option to pirate? Cheating is NOT part of piracy. Even if there is no piracy there is still cheating if the system is open to homebrew.

[The Dixie Flatline]

I'm of two thoughts on this whole thing; yeah in the past I would have no problem with people moding their consoles or the such. However, today with all of the consoles being connected and monetary transactions going on online it has opened up a totally new area of concern for me personally.
While I'm sure that you are one that uses such custom firmware for only the noblest of purposes, can you vouch for everyone else? That's the problem with CFW, there is no one policing it, keeping individuals from harming others' experience and their investments. With at least Sony controlling the firmware I am at least somewhat assured that I will not have something bad happen to my investment when playing online.
I have one question for you since you seem to be vouching for people who use CFW: if these people "just want to play their homebrew offline" then why are so feverishly trying to work around Sony's block on them and get back online with their modded consoles?
I'm not at all against the hacking and the using of consoles for your own use, but not all of these people have the same motives as you do. That is why a lot of people are against them and the fact of the matter is that you cannot guarantee that all of them would not use that CFW to either cheat or hack others' consoles and PSN accounts.
I remember a while ago when my brother-in-law was playing his Dreamcast online and had his VMU hacked and almost had his game saves destroyed. I personally do not want that to happen at all with my PS3, if that's what you want, then when it happens to you don't come back crying about it.
I completely understand where you're coming from, but without someone to police the online aspects of these increasingly connected consoles it leaves the normal users at the mercy of those who hack their machines. I for one understand the dangers of letting people who hack their consoles online; will inevitably start preying on those who are on the up-and-up. In my opinion if you hack your console then stay offline; Sony, Microsoft, or whoever the manufacturer is has every right to keep you off of their service and has the responsibility of protecting the users of the service.