Sony Will Be "The Biggest Losers"? No

The blog post was dead but I had something to say in reply to Meus Renaissance.

Sony the biggest losers? PS3 has been outselling Xbox 360 since October 2007, it sold a lot more last year, it is more expensive, harder to develop for, got sh1tty ports, its PSN has less content than XBL, and the OS has had less features (until 2.4 comes out at least).

The reason people assumed this would be a year with lots of discrepancies between PS3 and 360 is because people thought all of the killer games were coming this year on PS3 and that there was nothing on 360. And while there could be more on 360, Microsoft announced a few more games and bought japanese timed exclusives which is not bad. On the other hand Sony delayed some games and cancelled others, not to mention Microsoft might drop the price and Sony might not. However, we're still halfway through 2008 and both Microsoft and Sony can make a lot of moves.

However, another reason people said 2008 is Sony's year is not because people think PS3 will outsell Xbox 360 2:1, but because this is the turnaround year and it has showed. Disregarding the specs like resolution, GTAIV was, according to many press outlets including IGN, a better game on PS3, whether because it had no pop-in or because they preferred the look of it.

Aside from GTAIV, PS3 got great ports unlike last year, including COD4, DMC4 and Burnout. Blu-ray won the format war. The Firmware updates on PS3 have gotten great and there are way more games to look forward to, even more than the ones that came out the last holiday season which were only a minor showcase of what PS3 can do yet they were great for the most part (except Lair). PS3 is getting a lot of games that were previously 360 exclusive, including Eternal Sonata and Bioshock among others, and now it appears that Bioshock PS3 will become the definitive version, with Home features, more content and perhaps an enhanced experience.

To top the year off there is still E3 and there will be a lot of announcements regarding Sony and Microsoft. And while Nintendo is outselling both, 3rd parties are not doing well with Nintendo. And while Nintendo might be making money now, who knows how much time will the Wii last for them. After all, their gamers aren't spending as much on the Wii, and third parties are getting tired of supporting the Wii. Check how EA is doing on a per company and per platform basis:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080514-eas-sales-figures-paint-a-rosy-picture-for-sony.html

As you can see, there are no big winners or big losers here. Nintendo might be selling a lot of consoles and their games, but without the support of the core gamer and third parties, who knows how much can the Wii last. Microsoft and Sony have very solid 3rd party support, and IMHO, while Microsoft and Sony have kinda gotten better and worse respectively for the rest of 2008 as it goes now, I think Sony is still gonna have a better end of the year, both in matter of quality games and console sales; Microsoft might just sell more software overall but the difference won't be as big as last year.

I think we can make a better judgment once all shots are fired and the smoke clears after the holiday season. There are plenty of price drops, game announcements and innovations to be seen, but your judgment on the entire console war is very shortsighted, especially considering that the outlook for 2009 and on seems very different for every contender.

With the uptake of HDTV, Blu-ray and tons of AAA games coming out in 2009 for PS3, it might just be true that PS3 will outsell 360 by a very significant margin. And while they may not catch up next year (360 will also have something, duh), the outlook seems better than that of the Analysts who predicted that would happen by 2012. Things are changing slowly, I don't even remember when the massive hate for the PS3 stopped, and while it still exists, there is a very positive outlook from people towards it, unlike the attitude towards Xbox 360, which reflects that its future might be bleaker than you can imagine now.

If Sony makes a profit, it won't really matter for them if they ended up in "third place". If we gamers get more games on 360 and PS3 than on Wii, we shouldn't care if the Wii was in "first place". It seems that this generation everyone will make a profit in different ways and all gamers will be satisfied. PS3 and 360 have yet to drop their prices to admissible levels, so perhaps that is what is holding them back and what is holding "next-gen" back, and perhaps the reason for why GTAIV and MGS4 didn't have huge effects on demand, since with those prices, people can still be on the fence. If the price becomes right, and the value too, Nintendo might have to react if people realize what the other consoles offer for just a little more. So again, it is still too early to tell the final outcome, except for the fact that there will not be a "BIGGEST LOSER".

And IMO, your statement " I think that's quite deserved so far from their overall performance in regards to the gamers and what we've lacked from them" can't be further from the truth, since Sony is the one that has made the most improvements ever since the console was unveiled, from the controller to the firmware updates; its only problem now is price and delays, all of which can be fixed with a little time.

Has Microsoft fixed their console? Will they ever? Has Microsoft gotten not only lots of variety of indie games, but quality games too? Has Nintendo even tried to appeal to the hardcore gamer? reduced the price of its console to meet its actual value? When will they meet demand? Will they ever make a remotely acceptable online service? Considering all of these, it is likely that the average gamer is still on the fence because no console can yet claim ultimate superiority on all fronts the way the PS2 did. So it is doubtful that there will be a "biggest loser", perhaps there won't be. In fact, Sony might just be a winner by now with the Blu-ray victory, Microsoft might be a winner by establishing Xbox LIVE as a leading edge online service and arriving at the profit line already, and Nintendo by reviving its console business, though all of them still have problems.

[Jack Meahoffer]

Buying a console isn't like buying a house or something... Does it really matter which console "wins"?

Isaac I've seen a lot of your brand worshiping posts on N4G and I just don't get it. Why do you care so much? What is missing in your life that makes you want to root for a corporation so hard? If the PS3 "wins" will that make you feel better about yourself because you were smart enough to pick the best console? I mean picking the right console out of three choices really proves something. If you picked the wrong one damn that would be terrible you would have lost a whole $400... Personally I'd rather get all of them and be able to experience everything. I don't want to have to talk myself into believing that I'm not interested in game coming out for the competing platform. Choice will always win. Competition helps all gamers. Hoping and praying on one console to win over the other will get you no where.

[Isaac]

Did you not read my entire blogpost? I'm not sure if I was clear or not, I thought the message was that no console manufacturer will win, and that only us gamers will win thanks to competition. I don't worship anyone, as you can see, my avatar is that of Bioshock's creator, a (formerly) Xbox 360 exclusive. As of now I have a 360 and a PS3. The reason I don't have a Wii is because I think it's too expensive for what it offers.

If Wii had a "gamertag" for each user and achievements for all its mini-games, and its mini-games were actually distributed over the net (because they are basically XBLA or PSN games, like Wii Sports) and had achievements, I would have more reasons to buy it. Why did Nintendo snub the hardcore gamer? I used to love them but when I heard it was barely better than a gamecube under the hood I felt betrayed. Even more knowing that Nintendo doesn't have new IP other than mini-games and that 3rd parties are churning out shovelware.

The reason I seem partial to Sony is because I think they made the best console ever from a hardware standpoint, not because I love Sony. They have delayed a lot of games and PSN features that should have been there on launch, but hey, at least they are coming and PS3 has evolved and turned around since launch. I think that is better than having hardware that can't be updated. Wii can't be updated to run games in HD with advanced shaders, 360 can't be updated to read HD-DVD or Blu-ray discs.

Is 360 getting blu-ray (or HD-DVD, I don't care) games ever or are games gonna be limited to DVD9 for an entire generation? Because PS2 had games that filled a DVD9 so that's unacceptable to me for a next-gen console. Hell, using discs is last gen, but at least not having to change discs in the middle of the game is useful too. Some games can't even be put on multiple discs, or do you imagine a GTA4 with multiple discs? No, it's open world, you can't do that, same with sports games, racing games, etcetera.

What pisses me off even more about DVD9 on 360 is that Microsoft is using its money to buy timed exclusives that would sell more on the PS3, especially since to me that gimps games in order to fit on a DVD9 and not otherwise. But at least games that come later on PS3 come out with more content; well, some of them.

That is why I prefer PS3 over 360, while many can't see it, Blu-ray to me is very important right now just like CD was for the PS1 era, DVD for the PS2 era, and what holographic storage should be for the next-gen (either that or streamed games, but again who knows how fast Broadband will grow by then).

Had Microsoft put HD-DVD and HDD out of the box on 360, it would have launched in 2006 but at least they would have had enough time to make it a quality machine. And if that was the case, maybe I would prefer Xbox 360, but again if that happened, 360 would not have gotten so many timed exclusives or stolen so many PS3 exclusives, so who knows.

Anyway, I think that Microsoft should wait to launch their next-gen console until broadband becomes so fast that neither games nor movies have to be downloaded, just streamed. If that is the case, it is very likely (though not a certainty) that Microsoft's machine will be the best as they're probably ready. But until then, I think the PS3 is the best overall package and that is why I prefer its exclusives, because I think they offer the most, and the online features are getting better.

When the Wii becomes very cheap, like $150 or less, I'll buy it. I just hate on it a lot because I feel betrayed by Nintendo like a lot of gamers since they turned their back on us. Their success is undeserved as they had virtually no R&D costs when compared to Microsoft and Sony. They repackaged the Gamecube, basically. And what is worse, since they have become so successful, they have not listened to one thing we hardcore gamers want, which pisses me off even more, since they think they are actually right. They could have still added the bells and whistles of a next-gen console but chose not to. The demand would have been even higher since gamers like us would have been satisfied with a unified gamerscore, and an avatar world like Home. The Wii could have been a much better machine, and it saddens me to think that when it's cheap and I buy it, it will still be an inferior experience.

Oh and don't tell me you're neutral man, You have 3 bubbles for a reason, so don't lie. I've seen you worship Microsoft, and hey, you might have your reasons like I do for my PS3, even though we both will get all consoles.

Game on

PS360WII:

While that is true to some extent and gamers that aren't stockholders wouldn't give a damn about Sony's bottomline, I think gamers have already won with all the experiences. However, I think people are passing a judgment too early and I still think we could see a turnaround for all companies. The game industry is very dynamic and a lot of things happen overnight. Nintendo became top-dog from underdog overnight and the reverse with Sony. Sony also turned the PS3 around overnight during GDC07. The format war was over with warner bros in January. The PS3 started selling very well in the holiday season. 360 had a pretty good start but after the 1 billion dollar insurance things have gone significantly worse for them.

IMHO, It's too early to know what will happen, but as gamers we have won already.

[Jack Meahoffer]

This blog and your reply seem fair and balanced although I remember seeing other comments by you seemed much more one sided. Didn't mean to be so "jerky" in my comment.

I just think all three consoles are good products. All three have ups and downs. It frustrates me when people spin everything in favor of their console of choice.

Think this site is just getting on my nerves or something. Politics and console wars. People so divided blindly spinning reality to fit their aims. Guess people being so hardened for one side of anything bothers me. I try to see both sides of everything and when people are so one sided it bothers me. Not that you are Isaac just people in general.

Anyway after rereading your blog and your reply I better understand what your saying. Game on.

BTW. I have 3 bubbles mostly becuase fanboys on all sides hate me. I'll admit when I first started at N4G I posted some flame fanboy comments. I'm not proud of that and I stopped. I've tried for months to be as fair as possible because I realized I didn't want to be one of the idiot one-sided fanboys.

[NO_PUDding]

And to be honest, that argument is stupid.

Why can't people have brand preference. Mine is based on relibility and innovation. Both of which Sony exceed at and Microsoft doesn't. In most aspects.

And Isaac is right in the end. No one will definitively win this console war. and you can ensure anyone will win the next one, BUT you can insure people will come in better places than others. And ofcourse those places affect the company's perspective on whether the business is worthwhile or risky, and then in turn requires your input as a consumer.

Brand worshiping is bad, but brand support and preference is great.

[Isaac]

Yeah I have made a few "fanboy" comments before, it just pisses me off to see people hating on corporations more than they worship other consoles, and when they criticize points like blu-ray or installation when I actually see them as strengths way more than weaknesses. The reason you see me rooting in favor of PlayStation is because I want 50Gig games, not DVD9 games.

If Microsoft has made the 360 compatible with triple-layered HD-DVD, then it wouldn't matter so much and I wouldn't care if PS3 games went multiplatform or viceversa. When Capcom cancelled their PS3 RPG in favor of Wii that was one of the worst things I ever saw, not because I'm emotionally attached to Sony, but because of how gimped the game will be.

I just wish all consoles were equally capable, and by that I mean that neither storage space nor lack of HDD nor lack of processing power limits the consoles. Sure, PS3 has its downsides, but as I said before, the hurdles can be overcome with (development) time, unlike the DVD9 and lack of HDD on 360, let alone the lack of processing power on Wii.

[NO_PUDding]

Personally, I don't think that Sony will ever make their platform easy to develop for.

There is such a market for the PS3, so it will always be bought throguh brand recognition, and by making their architecture strange, it creates a more competetive market for developers and forces them to udnerstand the technology, which in turn helps them learn it better than the 360. And not only that, but the ethic with the PS3 and PS2 then continues that it's all about working the console right, and then they squeeze every bit of juice out of it.

It;s clever, and I am sure it's intentional. At the start of this year, how many devs said they'd centralise work on the PS3, 5 or 6, that's how many, and that's just the start.

[PS360WII]

If Sony makes a profit, it won't really matter for them if they ended up in "third place"

That's exactly right but seeing how they were #1 for two gens in a row it would be considered the biggest loser even though there is no winning or losing if you end up in the black. This is just going with Nintendo owning with the NES and SNES then going south with the N64 and GC. If you ask people who owned PS1 and PS2 they would say Nintendo was the biggest loser rather than saying they still made a profit.

In the end it all depends on who is looking at it. One will see glory, one will see failure, and one will see a bunch of games from all companies.

[bama]

NES will crash in 1984? No. 1986? No. 1989? No. OMG its 1990 Nintendo is gonna crash just like Atari and computers will take gaming! No.

Year of Commodore/Amiga will be ______?

Wii Fad will end in 2006? no 2007? no 2008? no 2009? no

Year of PS3 2006? No 2007? No 2008? No 2009? No

Person A: But its a ten year life cycle Bama!

2016? NO!

Person B; But wait for FFXIII Bama!

Remember the Wonderswan!

Person C: But bluray Bama!

But digital distrubution!

Person D: But everything for Sony starts with Metal Gear Bama just look at PS1/PS2!

Lies. PS1 was huge because of a ton of 3rd part support from previous SNES developers. PS2 was popular from the start but had shortages.

Person E: you just want Sony to lose?! OMGZZ!!

Be realistic

Person F: Just wait until ______

Has this ever worked?

Person G: Just wait Bama your gonna feel dumb pretty soon! Arrogance and gibberish thats all you is!

And what do you think you are? At the end of this you'll see just how right I am.

[Isaac]

"NES will crash in 1984? No. 1986? No. 1989? No. OMG its 1990 Nintendo is gonna crash just like Atari and computers will take gaming! No."

How is this related to today?

"Year of Commodore/Amiga will be ______?"

How is the PS3 comparable to that? Did the commodore/amiga have a legacy?

"Wii Fad will end in 2006? no 2007? no 2008? no 2009? no"

Wow 2008 isn't over and 2009 hasn't started. The Wii is indeed showing lots of signs of being a fad, like its owners not playing it anymore.

"Year of PS3 2006? No 2007? No 2008? No 2009? No"

Nobody said 2006 or 2007 would be. As I said before, thay said it would be 2008 for many right and wrong reasons. But this year has indeed been a turnaround.

"Person A: But its a ten year life cycle Bama!"

"2016? NO!"

Wow, how deep. PS2 has been out for 8 years already and Yakuza 2 has yet to come out. PSOne was discontinued in 2005, more than 10 years after its launch. So yeah, just saying "NO" while apparently thinking you're being funny and reasonable doesn't make your claim valid.

"Person B; But wait for FFXIII Bama!"

"Remember the Wonderswan!"

Wow, so PS3 is now a Wonderswan? Yeah, a lot of people are waiting for FFXIII just like a lot were for MGS4 and GTAIV. There were minor surges in sales thanks to these games. FFXIII is not the only reason for buying a PS3, lots of games are coming out.

"Person C: But bluray Bama!

But digital distrubution!"

Digital distribution? That is way too far away. Blu-ray is taking off faster than DVD, so you're actually wrong.

"Person D: But everything for Sony starts with Metal Gear Bama just look at PS1/PS2!"

"Lies. PS1 was huge because of a ton of 3rd part support from previous SNES developers. PS2 was popular from the start but had shortages."

How is this related to my blog? I never said things would "start" with MGS4, things started in 2006, then they became better with price drops, then with better titles, then even better titles, then firmware updates, and then price drops... it's not just one thing, it's a lot of things. PS2 was initially hated like the PS3 and didn't have many games until after a year. PS1 did not have as much 3rd party support until long after it launched.

"Person E: you just want Sony to lose?! OMGZZ!!

Be realistic"

Be reasonable.

"Person F: Just wait until ______

Has this ever worked?"

Yes, it has. People waited, and the PS3 price dropped. People waited and games came out. People waited and GTAIV and MGS4 came out. People waited and Firmware 2.4 is coming out on wednesday. You're starting to look dumb now.

"Person G: Just wait Bama your gonna feel dumb pretty soon! Arrogance and gibberish thats all you is!"

"And what do you think you are? At the end of this you'll see just how right I am. "

I just proved you how wrong you are, no need to wait till "the end of this". You are generalizing all of the ignorant arguments as if everyone thought like that, you are oversimplifying, and you are actually assuming nothing has helped PS3 or that everything is perfect with the Wii.

Nice attempt at doing the Maddox, you failed though.

[cmrbe]

to determine really. There are alot of things people must take into consideration.

1. The console war is only in its infancy.
2. Only 25% of last gen gamers have migrated sofar.
3. Wii is the only console that has surpass its last gen userbase.

Let put things into perspective.
For Sony
1. The PS3 is selling at the same rate the PS2 was selling at this point in time in its lifecyle.
2. Sony is only just getting started with the PS3 with features and Games.
3. Unlike other consoles this gen. The PS3 is the only console with a Blu ray drive which will help the sales of the PS3 once the uptake in HD increases.PS3 is the only console that is HD standard.

For the X360. Things don't look good.
1. The x360 is nearing its 3rd year on the market(1 year without competition) and yet it still haven't surpass the xbox userbase. accumulated in 4 years
2. The x360 is getting closer to the mass market price and yet it still got outsold by the competition.

For the wii. Its still unknown the true impact of the wii until later next year. Wii is the unknown variable this gen. We already know that 3rd parties don't sell that well on the wii but the question of weather it will continue to sell at the current rate for years to come is doubtful. Once the PS3 lowers its price within 100 dollars. The sales for the wii will most likely decrease.

Again its still too early to say. All i can say is that the PS3 is in a very good position in the long run to dominate like the PS2 did and the PS1 before it.

[Product]

If NIntendo wii was a fad then wiifit wouldnt sell as much as it does a year and a half after the release of the wii.Get real people.Issac i have many friends who own ps3's that they dont play and collect dust because they are not into metal gear(which is the only game this year that is any good for ps3) all they use it for is bluray.and this is the case for alot of ps3 owners seeing as how what was the figure somwhere around 80% of all bluray players were ps3s in the world.Sony is lucky they bought of the studios they did to win the format war but in doing that just added to sony being even more in debt from the ps3.....3.3 billion i do believe forbes reported 3 weeks ago.

[bootsielon]

What the fvck? I am banned from my own blog? Stupid mods, I wrote a long ass reply and it got erased because suddenly I can't post on my own blog now you morons, I hate you so much I hope you die in hell!!

[Isaac]

Well, first of all you are speaking out of anecdotal evidence, which is pretty much a worthless sample of information (not to mention you're probably making that up since you didn't even bother to read the link I posted). If it was all about anecdotal evidence, I can tell you my friends use their PS3 the most for media and gaming, the 360 for a few exclusives since they had bad quality experiences, and their wii's are only used when they have parties, meaning once each three months. Also, most people on N4G utilize their PS3 heavily for media and gaming, not just blu-ray discs. A lot of people on N4G use their 360s for gaming and also for media on the marketplace. The Wii? Not so much.

For starters, the Wii is gathering dust in many japanese homes as it has been reported previously by famitsu. If that wasn't enough, developers in japan have criticized Nintendo because they're making garbage games for casual people, which may cause the market to crash again. Not to be outdone by that, aside from all the owners at N4G who just use their Wii's for messaging their friends in order to dust off the Wii once each while, there are countless of articles from dedicated video game websites hating on the Wii because of its sh1tty online service, whether because of friend codes or lag, not to mention its severe lack of original games and the debacle that is Wiiware.

Not only that, but as you can see on the link I posted above, there is little reason for developers/publishers to release games on Wii, since the moneymakers are mostly PS3, and also 360, i.e. NOT NINTENDO, which is why you mostly see "good games" from Nintendo on the Wii, too bad they're mostly mini-games where most people wouldn't care unless they had achievements (but Wii Online fails, so they aren't even planned) or old IP, where most gamers don't care anymore as they're tired of Mario, Metroid, Zelda.

Since 3rd parties will have been long sick and tired of supporting a console that doesn't even make money for them, they won't be there eventually. Nintendo will stop meeting their wanted margins, and they'll have to eventually make a tough choice: Release another gimmick, but that won't surprise Sony and Microsoft anymore as they were taught a lesson by Nintendo and will now be prepared; release a game console that actually appeals to gamers and has advanced technology aside from gimmicky "uniqueness"; or call it a day. After all, the market for the Wii will eventually reach saturation the way it did for Nintendo DS in Japan, and Wii will stop selling many games as a dated console with careless owners that were only driven to buy the product by impulse and hearsay and not by actual value.

PS3 sales are actually on the rise and also 360 sales to some extent. Their prices are too high and they still have a lot of juice left and new experiences to offer, something which can't be said of the Wii. Wii might keep selling to the same non-gamers, but it only sufices to see how much the Wii owner spends on it and you'll understand why gamers and 3rd party devs are a lot better with a PS3 and a 360. Wii's market will remain as casual as the cellphone market, so don't be surprised if developers keep making AAA games on 360 and PS3 while the Wii keeps getting shovelware. If that happens, Nintendo will be forced to launch a new console regardless of how much of market leaders they are, and PS3 and 360 to some extent will have a pretty long tail since they were built for the future of content on demand. Nintendo will have to start over with technologies they have no expertise with, while Sony and Microsoft will be profiting in a market that will hardly admit new contenders like Nintendo, i.e. the online gaming and multimedia market.

[bootsielon]

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