Fallout 4's New Third Person Perspective Kills The Story? Perhaps not.

I stand corrected. I have been made aware of info which makes much of this post void. However, if you like, you could read this as a hypothetical piece.

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The issue of perspectives in games are often argued over more then any other aspect. People seem content settling on the fact that some like platforming games, whereas you like RPG games. When we talk about First person vs. Third person perspectives within a certain genre however, that seems to make or break games.

My concern is this: Having watched the new Fallout shelter trailer (which includes Fallout 4 footage), the game no longer maintains a first person perspective when interacting with other characters (like Piper). *[EDIT: Yes, it does. I have been made aware that it is possible to switch views]*. Whereas it used to in Fallout 3 and New Vegas. Instead it employs a Third Person perspective which actually displays your own character head-on as well. The main problem is that it is these interactions with characters that tend to serve most of the storyline in Fallout. Thus, If these sequences are not immersive, then the story could be much less compelling.

The problem with this is that my philosophy, and I would say many others, is that sequences like what I described above tend to break immersion. There is a specific reason, for example, Gordon Freeman does not talk, and that the cut-scenes in Half-Life are all incorporated into real time game play. This strategic design choice aims at making the player embody the character you play as.

The fact is that there are also many people who may not share the same philosophy. They may feel that the third person perspective achieves a different level of immersion for them, that they can see their character. And Fallout 3 and NV did a great job in including the ability to switch perspectives from First to Third during gameplay, to please everyone. Fallout 4 will continue this. But when interacting with characters, every (applicable) trailer has displayed this third-person perspective.

Finally, as a result of this break in immersion, story is greatly affected. In Fallout 3, I didn't just feel like I was "playing" as the Lone Wanderer, but that I was "experiencing" truly being the Lone Wanderer. This perspective made the story of finding your father all the more compelling and touching. Will people who share this philosophy enjoy the story in Fallout 4, if it employs third person cut scenes?

Some finishing comments... I have no doubt that Fallout 4 will be great "fun" to play, just like the last few games, gameplay is not my concern. The idea of immersion during dialogue sequences, and consequently, story, is changing with Fallout 4.

(I deliberately left out Fallout and Fallout 2, as they greatly complicate the issue of perspectives. I am assuming that Fallout will continue to be produced as First-Third person games.)

[Derekvinyard13]

Was just thinking about this the other day, I've been replaying fallout 3 and love the way you can talk to people. Some of the responses you can tell people and absolutely hilarious. Not sure if that gonna feel the same with someone actually saying it.

[TFJWM]

Really depends on the voice acting. If done well it would be even funnier just like a good joke delivered by a good comic is always better then reading it

[AndreR]

i dont have the patience to read. That is what i love about The elder scrolls online, that everyone is talking.

[gyggyg]

I hope you enjoyed reading the post!

Agreed, the voiced protagonist remains a problem. But, I could imagine there's a (small) chance Bethesda makes the voice optional (disabling it).

Do you think they are heading in the right direction with the disembodiment of your character?

[FalloutWanderer2077]

I have some of the same concerns and I'm eagerly awaiting FO4 regardless of some of the questionable design decisions, I will obviously reserve judgement until I've had the chance to go hands-on when the game finally releases (SOON!) I have also brought this topic up a few times and I have either been down voted or pacified by "Howard already said we can talk in FPP, TPP or just walk away"

I will remind you however, in case you're unaware or that you've possibly forgotten. If we are to believe what Todd Howard has said, and going by experience from previous BGS games, we are supposed to also be getting FPP dialogue not just this TPP cinematic camera angle(s) that IMO, I'm hoping they are showcasing for the sake of the voiced protagonist and the much more cinematic dialogue changes they have implemented.

As you have said, they have yet to truly show us what these encounters would look like in FPP. The closest that we've gotten to that is when the PC talked to Codsworth, we see the Mass Effect-esque dialogue wheel but what has worried me is that as soon as the PC picks the response, we immediately see this new TPP camera angle.

Now, again, I'm hoping this is all for showcasing and not exactly what we have to look forward to. Honestly, it would be a huge mistake on BGS part and I imagine a good portion of fans would also dislike this change, rest easy, we do not have long to wait!

The more options the merrier! Player freedom and choice is paramount, for BGS games in particular. If they do something like this, there will be an outcry, you can bet on that.

[gyggyg]

Thank you for reading!

For your reminder however, I was under the belief that in previous games, if you approached a character in Third-Person, that it would automatically switch to the first-person when you engaged in dialogue. You can try finding videos of this to make sure. In other words, there was no Third-Person dialogue sequence, it was always first person (as in, the camera solely on the NPC).

If you are right, and there is now a First and Third person dialogue system, then that would be great!

Lastly, I hate to see people downvoted for voicing a concern. I, like you, will reserve judgement until release, and am sure Fallout 4 will be a blast to play, but I still have this concern as it affects the story and immersion.

[FalloutWanderer2077]

That's what I meant, in past games we have always had FPP dialogue, so I'm hopeful that all of this TPP cinematic camera is merely for showing it off as a new feature. If not, and we're stuck with TPP no matter what for dialogue, then I'm gonna be majorly disappointed. That's why I mentioned what Todd Howard stated at the presentation during the Codsworth exchange, we will have both FPP, TPP and if we want, we can leave any conversation at any time or shoot them in the face if we choose! etc.

We can supposedly converse with more than 1 NPC at a time as well, multiple conversions at once kinda thing. It's a rare instance and not necessarily something they encourage consistently but it's still possible.

That would be without a doubt false advertisement as far as I'm concerned if FPP dialogue was not in the game. At least we don't have long to find out!

BTW, you're welcome. I enjoyed the read and as I said, I share most of your worries.

[Liqu1d]

Didn't Bethesda say you have an option between 1st person or 3rd person in conversations?

[gyggyg]

Thank you for bringing this to my attention, I stand corrected. It's tough to tell when all of the footage shown has it in third person.

Thanks for reading!

[Aloy-Boyfriend]

I think there will be only the 3rd person perspective when having conversations now that the character finally has a voice. Bethesda could have implemented an option to mute your character and use 1st person perspective, but so far there's no indication of that

[hirobrotagonist]

Agreed with Liqu1d

seriously why are people bitching about this? Todd Howard stated you could switch between either perspective. Learn to read.

[gyggyg]

You can view my reply to Liqu1d above to see my response to that. However, you could have gotten your point across in a much more respectful way.

I was voicing a valid concern, not whatever you called it.
My concern was based on the belief that there was no switch available, based on trailers.

Finally, I know how to read, I simply was never exposed to the information in the first place.

Thank you for reading.

[FalloutWanderer2077]

Maybe you should learn how to read pal. I get exactly what the OP is saying. Every bit of footage we've been shown has forced this new, TPP cinematic camera angle dialogue system. Regardless of what Howard said, lets see it then! That's all I'm asking for.

The closest to FPP while being engaged in any form of dialogue is when speaking with Codsworth, if you go back and watch that part again, as soon as the PC chose their response , all we see is this new TPP camera angle.

It's pretty easy to understand why some people would be curious wondering where the footage is showing the classic FPP dialogue. Also, animations and a whole bunch of other aspects will look fairly different compared to TPP. I'd love to see how these conversations play out in FPP.
(Ideally before the game ships)

[BillytheBarbarian]

You could always switch views and adjust the camera up close or far away. I like 3rd person primarily. I go to first person when picking up items so I don't steal something or grab some useless bowls or junk.

I use the same tactics in Skyrim and Eldee Scrolls Online. Been doing it since Morrowind.

[Aloy-Boyfriend]

He's taking about the camera perspective when having conversations

[InMyOpinion]

Would be a really weird design decision if it was true.

[vickers500]

Have been worried about this myself ever since they announced your character will have a voice. I'll wait and see, but it is something to be concerned about.

[Dan_scruggs]

Wait you mean the completely optional third person conversation perspective that you do not in any way have to use as stated by the developer. Totally ruined.