edgeofblade

Contributor
CRank: 5Score: 32540

Natal: Flagrant Inaccuracies

Posted on an article about the PSN Eye Kung-Fu game:

"True it's not 3D mocap
but with this tech and the PSMove it can fully be just that.

The point I was making was that Natal claimed that placing the player into the game was not possible on any other system. Yet here it is on the PS3 before we have yet to see it done on Natal... other than the faked marketing vid."

Yeah, and the PS3 "Only Does Everything". Way to go with the double standard. No matter what Microsoft over-promises about their tech, Sony has already done the worst possible over-promise right there. Unless... you know... you took it with a grain of salt like any other rational person would...

You're not getting it. This is NOTHING like Natal. Not even close. To say this is "doing it before Natal" is an insult to the collective intelligence of gamers everywhere. This is like a kid asking for a Wii and their parents bringing home one of those knock-off, battery-powered plug-and-play games from China.

This tech in the Kung-fu game merely subtracts the background and extracts a 2D image of the player, then does some pretty lite analysis to determine poses and moves moving on a 2D plane, much the say way you would do DSP on a voice to extract words. What it does with that image is quite impressive... but not anything better than what's already been done with EyeToy and 360 games like In The Movies, also with the same 2D camera.

Natal is a 3D infrared camera that can natively detect depth. If it were a display technology instead of an input technology, it would be "holographic". If you've seen Minority Report, it's like the protagonist's home videos. The Move wand can only do 3D position because the size of the bulb on the wand is a known value. That's still a single point in space. On the other hand, Natal can generate an entire array these points in space, like a tessellated (wrinkled, draped) sheet covering the scene.

Move... which in MY personal opinion has much better gaming applications than Natal thanks to having an actual controller component... STILL does not natively sense depth the way Natal does. I'm more interested in and excited for the Move, but I can't stomach the flagrant inaccuracy with which Natal has been portrayed in these articles.

Watch this video from 1:17 and tell me if the Eye can do that: http://www.gametrailers.com...

madmonkey05088d ago

Ther was an add on that did the exact same thing as natal on the SNES. its not as good as MS make out.

i watched your vid, and yep it is still pretty much the same as playstation eye

edgeofblade5088d ago

*facepalm*

So, the PS Eye can take a 3D image of the room it's in?

Godmars2905088d ago

You do know that the "Kung-fu" at one point was going to be multiplatform, right? Its a 3rd party game that Sony just happened to get exclusively. Then again, MS might have rejected it because its too "primitive" in terms of what Natal fully has to offer.

Not that there's been anything offered in regards to what natal can do as far as extracting and replacing backgrounds. That much about just hasn't been shown.

edgeofblade5088d ago

Actually... the 360 would be able to do this with the webcam they already have. But I agree: Microsoft probably told them no because it would muddy the perception of Natal with the public.

Natal doesn't need to extract and replace background images from a 2D image. It does one better. Look at that vid and look at where the body is shown as red against a white background. It's reading in your body positions from a 3D infrared camera. Anything that's not your body is excluded from the process of mapping your body to the in-game character.

This is NOTHING like Natal. The difference between Eye and Natal is like the difference between a smart 2D TV and a holographic projector from Star Wars.

I'll say it once again. I think Move has better applications for gaming, but ultimately Natal is a cooler, more advanced technology. Not necessarily better... either one.

Godmars2905088d ago

Sorry, but where is the proof that backs up that statement? All that's truly been shown of Natal is a prerendered gamefield with the transparent and generic outline of a game character. Not even an XBL avatar muchless the silhouette of someone actually using it at the time.

I mean, you can't even bring up evidence that the original Xbox video camera is capable of translating those effects because as far as I'm aware there was never a video editor muchless a games made for it. Unlike the PSeye.

Move is nothing more than an add-on that gives the PSeye a precise tracking option as well as depth. That's what a game like Kung-fu LIVE prove. That it was named Kung-fu *LIVE* suggests that it was made with Natal in mind.

crapgamer5088d ago

Natal is one of a kind. It's new tech, not only is it the biggest gaming technology this year, but Microsoft has said it's the biggest computer technology coming this year. Voice commands, scan items into it, it learns from you. It's amazing. I am looking forward to it. I am happy that MS didn't go with a Wii Knock off, because I wouldn't have bought something like that. I am glad they went with something more. I mean what started out as the best hard core gaming console has now turned into a great media device as well and this adds to that. I cant wait.

thor5088d ago

Voice commands, scanning items, and "learning" is anything BUT new technology. Mobile phones 10 years ago had voice activation. Ever heard of barcodes? And the ability for a computer to learn is PURELY a software thing - and bearing in mind that no computer has come close to passing the turing test as of yet, I severly doubt that any Natal game will make any sort of breakthrough.

The only "new tech" Natal has is depth perception, which allows it to be a more accurate PSEye. Quite a bit more accurate, but that's all it is and you've been misled by faked demonstrations I'm afraid.

Trroy5088d ago

Actually, the Move does detect depth very accurately -- that's what the glowy ball is for.

In a sense, Natal detects a "depth field" -- it knows that one part of an incoming image is closer or further away from the camera than another, whereas the Move only detects a "depth point". The Move's depth accuracy is considerably more refined, but it is just that single point.

The real question for MS is... can that field of depth information be utilized for interesting gaming purposes, or is it just additional info, without any real purpose?

Jack Klugman5088d ago

great post and its a great start at countering some of the inaccuracies that are floating around.. move is faking its depth of field and i would hardly call it refined.

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