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DragonKnight

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The Sony Defence Has Gotten Out of Hand

First it was defending the lack of Backwards Compatibility, next it was defending the pseudo "remakes" of PS2 games on PS4, and now it's the worst defense of all. Defending PS4K, a.k.a. PS4 Neo. This needs to stop.

For the sake of simplicity, this blog will assume that the PS4 Neo is actually happening even if Sony are not talking about it at all. In fact, the very fact that they have said absolutely NOTHING about it is a great indication that it's happening.

Sony is making a really stupid move, and really stupid people are defending said really stupid move.

I've seen lines like "It's for PSVR to have better performance so it's great" and "People who wanted PSVR already were already accepting of the fact that it wasn't as powerful as HTC Vive or Oculus Rift, so having a PS4 Neo hurts no one" and even "If you can't afford one, it won't impact you anyway since PSVR will work with base model PS4s anyway."

All of these comments HAVE to be from young gamers who know next to nothing about gaming history, and/or are really blind defenders of Sony just because it's Sony and they can do no wrong this gen.

PS4 Neo is a bad idea because all incremental, .5 like console updates are historically bad ideas.

The absolute best (or worst depending on how you see it) example of this is the Sega 32X. Do you remember the 32X? I'll provide a link for a more thorough explanation, but I'll summarize as well.

The Sega 32X was a .5 if you will. It was a piece of hardware that attached to a Sega Genesis and it had extra power to boost 16bit games to 32bit games. Pretty much exactly the same concept as the PS4 Neo, only it was an attachment and not an actual console re-release.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...

The link above has information that should apply to this situation as well, specifically...

"Journalists were similarly concerned about Sega's tactic of selling two similar consoles at different prices and attempting to support both, likening Sega's approach to that of General Motors and segmenting the market for its consoles."

Segmenting the market is the biggest concern of all. It SHOULD matter to all of you, it SHOULD matter (and indications are that it does) to developers.

A PS4 Neo will create development hell. Costs of development will increase as the developers will either have to choose to make only a base PS4 game, or make two versions of one game for what is essentially one general platform.

If developers make two versions of one game, then sales will be affected because the user base will be segmented between those WITH a Neo and those WITHOUT a Neo.

Eventually developers will treat the difference, if they don't already from the start, between PS4 base and PS4 Neo in the same manner as they have treated cross gen development. That is to say they will not develop base PS4 versions any longer because it would be financially stupid to do so. This will have the obvious consequence of forcing consumers into a position of having to buy a PS4 Neo because the base PS4 simply won't be getting the newer games. It's not the base couldn't get the newer games, from a technical standpoint it should be similar to how lower spec'd PCs still get games but underperform compared to higher spec'd PCs. But, why would a developer want to bother with that and come away with less money? Why would a publisher even ALLOW for that at all?

And yet the blind defense of anything Sony does still continues. It's this kind of defense that breeds complacency and arrogance. The same kind of complacency and arrogance that led to Ken Kutaragi's quotes about the PS3. The same kind of complacency and arrogance that plagued the Xbox One's early launch. Do you not understand this?

Stop defending Sony when they make a stupid move. I assure you that calling them out on their B.S. WILL NOT mean Playstation goes away forever. You can help to make the brand better, as evidenced by how MS felt with the launch of Xbox One and the backlash that ensued, by voicing the very correct negative opinions about B.S. moves.

PS Neo is a bad idea. It's a bad idea for PSVR because it will segment that userbase, and it's a bad idea for games in general for the same reason. If Sony wanted a more powerful VR experience, then the thing to do is release a 32X style attachment specifically for the VR device, not a whole new console barely into the PS4's 2nd year.

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DonkeyDoner1882d ago (Edited 1882d ago )

well 32x has it's own exclusive game and neo dont so...
all development hell you're talking about no just no, all dev gotta do make it ultra and 60 fps that's all i ask,if they can create a multiple patch after release(the witcher 3)why cant they put a little effort to it??

DragonKnight1882d ago (Edited 1882d ago )

Neo doesn't yet exist to have its own exclusive games. But if/when it does, you'd better believe it will have its own exclusive games. What makes you think developers want to spend more money making multiple versions of one game? They won't. They'll make the better version and say screw you to the base PS4. Why wouldn't they?

DonkeyDoner1882d ago

no sony wouldn't allow that,did you even read that?

DonkeyDoner1882d ago

also with this you dont have to wait for another "remaster" bullshit
oh wait maybe that's why devs are unhappy they cant make more money from it or they cant make fun "console are weak" anymore

t-hall7851881d ago

@Kudo this is all speculation. So even if it does come out who's to say they won't allow that. The rumored gpu has double the compute units so if this is true I can't see why devs wont take advantage of that.
And even if they don't, is the ps4 now gonna get watered down ports from its big brother? A lot of things to consider.

XtraTrstrL1881d ago

"Why wouldn't they?" Maybe because the install base of the base PS4 will always be insanely higher than the install base of a PS4.5. Developers are about making $$$, not supporting the strongest platform, otherwise PC would always rule. So, it'll be the opposite of what you think, PS4.5 will get just the default upgrade it gets for running the software on the stronger hardware in most cases, while the base PS4 will still be the lead platform.

Ravenor1880d ago

It's an x86 PC, running the software at different detail settings and resolutions is not two versions of the same game.

FamilyGuy1880d ago

You sound ridiculous, "All of these comments HAVE to be from young gamers who know next to nothing about gaming history" Your assumptions make YOU sound incredibly young.

Why would a developers ignore 40 million+ current PS4 owners over something like 1 million or so Neo owners? The idea is completely absurd on its own but you're ignoring the Neo rumor proclaiming that Sony won't allow Neo-only games. As far as developers are concerned, they wouldn't be "making two games". It would be one game on a regular setting and the setting turned up to high when that game was inserted into a PS4 Neo.

TFJWM1879d ago

@DragonKnight "what makes you think developers want to spend more money making multiple versions of one game?"

Why do developers make games for the Xbox One then? It has ~1/2 the install base and is weaker than the PS4. By your logic there is no reason for them to spend money to make a version to run on it...

OG PS4 is going to have a large install base for a long time so why wouldn't they keep making games for it.

Yetter1878d ago

as of now, the internal document that leaked that actually coins the new console as the 'neo' states all PS4 neo games must run on the base PS4. I'm more worried that they will run like totally crap on the base PS4. We already have an example of this, this generation. Hyrule warriors on the old and new 3DS. The old version is almost unplayable

LackTrue4K1878d ago (Edited 1878d ago )

@t-hall you're answer to all this is "speculation",
And you give you're own answer to all this Is, you're own (large speculation about the issue)

Stop playing the victim if you don't plan on buying it.

Let's all agree to wait for E3!

donthate1878d ago

Most likely what will happen is developers will support the original PS4, and say screw you to the PS4K/Neo. When and if, the PS4K/Neo becomes the majority, they will shift over. If this experiment fails fantastically, Sony won't do it again. If Sony does nothing, they risk consoles falling far behind other technology.

So this doom and gloom is merely that.... The market will work itself out.

1877d ago
TomRL1877d ago

What logical sense would it make to completely ignore a platform with identical architecture and 40 million users

IamTylerDurden11877d ago

Do you read all the literature? No exclusives, only a resolution/fps increase, no different than playing a pc game on normal or Ultra.

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Deadpooled1882d ago

Seems like the Last Guardian missed another console cycle ;)

DragonKnight1882d ago

Sony wouldn't allow that? They'll have no say in the matter. Also, Sony has said NOTHING on this matter, what makes you think you know what they will and won't allow when all of this is still currently hypothetical?

kraenk121882d ago

Did you even read anything of what was published?!

joeorc1881d ago

@kraenk1212h ago
[Did you even read anything of what was published?]

What published Documents? All we have heard is such and such person has leaked Documents.

What's funny is it could very well be just a prototype.. Not even a retail release.

These documents that they claim to have means someone broke NDA if they in fact have them..if So Sony could in effect change their mind .seeing how there is more anger than happyness about this .

1) if these documents were real leaks Sony would not be very happy about this you can bank on that.
2) I doubt they are going to be very happy with GiantBomb over this so doing something like that burns bridge's.

ninsigma1879d ago

Of course they'll have a say in the matter. It's their system so they decide what gets put on. They already have review processes that happens before they say a game is OK to release. This is all hypothetical talk based on rumors so we may as well discuss what the rumors have to say as apposed making stuff up and wildly speculating.

Pogmathoin1875d ago

Nice blog... Gets those children in one spot......

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DragonKnight1882d ago

Are you going to provide me a link to an official Sony source or are you taking Giantbomb at their word?

kraenk121882d ago

There are several sources who have all confirmed the same thing. Sony isnt stupid. They won't fragment their user base.

DonkeyDoner1882d ago (Edited 1882d ago )

"Sony seems committed to keeping the NEO and the original PS4 player bases connected. As such, there will be no NEO-only games, and Sony will not let developers separate NEO users from original PS4 players while playing on PSN"

http://www.giantbomb.com/ar...

seriously read carefully
and sony not forcing you buying this

*edit :sony not dumb as MS

joeorc1881d ago

Exactly @DragonKnight
There is no official source..all there is a [claim they have a leaked documentation]

If those Documents exist , I'm prerty sure people would just love to see them..So if they have been leaked to be real.. What if Sony does not go ahead with such a PS4.5 would those so call documents get posted than?

Its all on the sites saying its real to prove their claim , not on Sony..Sony does not have to follow through..and it would serve these sites right if Sony does not..then the gamers journo site loose its credibility. Not Sony.

yomfweeee1878d ago (Edited 1878d ago )

It's been confirmed by many sites.

If you're going to assume Giantbomb is correct about the Neo (which you are), you can't then pick and choose what parts they are right about.

And yes Sony can say no exclusives and control it. You can't put a game on their system without their approval.

donthate1878d ago (Edited 1878d ago )

You mean the same word you are assuming about PS4K/NEO existing and therefore writing this opinion piece?

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DragonKnight1882d ago (Edited 1882d ago )

Several sources confirmed that the PS4 would have similar DRM to the Xbox One before it launched. Sources are not Sony. The existence of a PS4K doesn't lend credence to the idea that Sony are not stupid. Sony lets a lot of stupid things happen as it is.

Edit: Giantbomb is not Sony and that won't change no matter how often you quote them.

Edit 2: The "you're not forced to buy it" argument is not an argument. That's basically laying down and accepting it.

DonkeyDoner1882d ago

oh you're trying to bring old shit without real source,ok let me tell you what MS did back in 360 days remember early models 360 suffers from RROD about 54% of xbox 360 total owner,they gave us a return policy,BULLSHIT,after that guess what??they release a new model console and says "hey guys this one actually works!!"

FanMan1881d ago (Edited 1881d ago )

"Sources are not Sony". Exactly, yet here you are using other sources to further your argument but when other people bring up the same source it's suddenly not aloud? Even though it's looking pretty likely, we don't really know if this is actually happening.

Also, how about you make your point without calling people blind fanboys. I assure you that there are people out there that genuinely don't see anything wrong with this. Just because they disagree with you doesn't make them a blind fanboy just like your stance doesn't make you a Sony hater.

IamTylerDurden11876d ago

You are so blindly fanboy on this. It's just like pc, not a big deal.

Yetter1878d ago

Yes as simple as File>SaveAs>60fps right??

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corroios1882d ago

Dude comeback from the clouds and wait for the official confirmation. So much hate. I know that the dude that wrote this «news» must be one of those that all this generation is waiting for something and waiting and waiting and waiting...

DragonKnight1882d ago

When you can make a coherent comment, I'll be here to reply.

FarEastOrient1881d ago

@DragonKnighht You've been going at Sony for years now, why not wait for information before inventing more information and counting them as facts.

Nicaragua1882d ago

Your making out that there is a huge effort and expense for developers to support two consoles when that would not be the case. It will likely be the same game with different graphics options - just like the PC, or even like TLOU remastered and Infamous SS which both had variable graphics options.

The 32X comparison doesn't stack up as it required completely different media and development techniques.

DragonKnight1882d ago

Dude, devs have already said exactly what I've said about Neo on twitter. They're already counting costs for multiple versions, time, planning, etc.. And they aren't happy about it. You're also ignoring the fact that the base PS4 won't have these "graphics settings" so it'll necessitate 2 versions because what reason would Neo users have to mot use optimal settings while base users can't make use of it?

The 32X did not require completely different media. You docked it to the console and it essentially had the same function as RAM. This meant either developing 32X specific games, or not. Devs opted out in favour of PS1 and N64 but if you think there won't be a segmented userbase with the Neo, then you've forgotten that history is doomed to repeat itself, especially when people or companies refuse to learn their lessons.

LetoAtreides821876d ago

A game that works on the 32x can't work on the Genesis, and Genesis games don't benefit at all from the 32x being attached. If Neo's backward compatibility is true then PS4 games will work on the Neo and every game playable for the Neo can be played on the PS4. Your comparison would therefore be a very weak one.

IamTylerDurden11876d ago

R u joking? Costs? PC games do it. It'll be way cheaper than developing for PS3/PS4. PS3 development will cease and PS4/Neo will take over, it'll be much easier.

kraenk121882d ago

Yeah..ensuring the PS4 us future proof is a bad move....keep hating, I'll keep defending.

DragonKnight1882d ago

How exactly are the 40+ million PS4s currently out being future proofed?

kraenk121882d ago (Edited 1882d ago )

It's easy..Sony is still gonna support it with the same games. A lot of people are gonna sell theirs to people who don't need 4K and the extra power -> expanding the user base immensely. A lot of people still are gaming at 720p, they don't even need a PS4K soon. The normal PS4 is still gonna be sold for 250-300 $ which will as well expand the user base with amazing games like Uncharted 4 running perfectly fine. Choice is everything.

DragonKnight1882d ago

A) You can keep saying "Sony is" all you want but Sony haven't said anything.

B) With or without Neo games would still come to the PS4, there are 40+ million PS4s out and Sony wants money. Money is what future proofs consoles, not a .5

C) You just proved a segmented userbase.

D) You're making justifications. "People still game at 720p" is not an argument in favour of Neo. It's an argument in favour of poor standards at worst, poverty or lack of time at best.

Finally, the fact that you keep insisting these are all Sony's words proves that even when Sony said nothing at all, you'll blindly accept even rumoured moves by them no matter what they are.

kraenk121882d ago

To C)

It would only be segmented if there were PS4K only games.

Goldby1879d ago

@Kraenk12

Problem with people is when you give them too many options.

We have the PS4, Xbox1, WiiU and PC

if people dont like sony, they can go with another one and vice versa.
/If people like sony, they choose the PS4
but what if someone likes sony but can't afford to upgrade from the PS4 to the PS4.5, why would they save up their money for the PS4.5 when soon enough the PS4.5.1 comes out, followed by the PS4.5.2. what is stopping that gamer from never buying a console again because all the games work on that console. with every upgraded consoles the Devs will eventually build a game specific for that. Unless they are owned by Sony, and even then. i could see ND in an argument with head hanchos about how they new ideas can only be done with the upgraded hardware. after all if that wasn't the case, my old college laptop could run QB right now if it had Win 10....

There are people who just bought a ps4, or even worse the uncharted ps4 only top find out oh that game can be played better on this version of the console. their mindsets may be something like this "i guess we should have told you that before you spent 500 dollars on the console and game. oh well." and to those gamers, that is a slap in the face.

There will be the people who upgrade with every iteration, but those wont overcome those who choose now to never update their console because "every game will be backwards and forwards compatible." guess what, sony just lost out on $400 every few years from alot of people. lets say one 10Million of the 40 miliion decide to never upgrade again, thats 4,000,000,000 they are losing out on every few years. and unless they have some magical leprochaun that can grant them money and wishes, it would be very difficult to give reason for a company losing that much just on sales, not including constantly having to use new and more expensive parts.

SKullDugger1876d ago

The answer is they are not.

IamTylerDurden11876d ago

DKnight is such a biased person. They are the same games, development costs will be less than they are now with PS3 support. Everyone gets the same content, it just run more optimally on Neo.

It will raise gaming standards across the board, help pc games.

It will lower PS4 prices significantly and ensure the format is supported, considering both Neo and PS4 use the same games.

It will widen the user base thus providing more money for game development.

It will provide another option for those with 4K TVs and expendable income.

There will be a trade in program.

It will not affect the quality of regular PS4 games.

It opens the door to upgradable hardware on console, which is a must atm. 8 yr cycles are dead, tech is moving too fast, this is the future. PS5 will have an upgradable gpu. It's not a bad thing to have options.

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1882d ago Replies(3)
maniacmayhem1881d ago

You are exactly what DragonKnight is referring to in his blog.

How is Sony making PS4 future proof? By releasing ANOTHER PS4 with higher specs?

So many on this site celebrated their PS4 for being the "superior" console and touting how buff their console was compared to the competition. Now all of sudden most of these same people are claiming to be okay with having a weaker console if the Neo is true.

The hypocrisy is mind boggling. I love how you also state that a lot of people are still gaming at 720p and that 30fps is okay. I guess the X1 isn't so bad now when it comes to resolution and performance.

GMR_PR1879d ago

"So many on this site celebrated their PS4 for being the "superior" console and touting how buff their console was compared to the competition. Now all of sudden most of these same people are claiming to be okay with having a weaker console if the Neo is true. "

This.

kraenk121876d ago

Your logic is flawed. Due to the fact that games will always be released for both consoles that move actually enhances PS4s lifespan. It's a great option to just have the additional possibility to upgrade some day and not lose one game, no, even be able to play the enhanced versions right away! That's what makes PC gaming so great and has now reached consoles with their uniform x86 technology.

freshslicepizza1874d ago

we all know consoles are slowly becoming a lot like the pc model and from my years of pc gaming i am completely fine with it. what pc gaming does is it allows the user to decide through investment how they want their games to scale with performance.

so tell me what is worse, having a generation that is on hold because as technology advances the consoles can't keep up so they either hinder technology all together (pc games getting dumbed down) or the consoles get inferior games like we have already been seeing that can't even do 1080p?

we all know it's the developers decision whether to make games like driveclub at 30 frames per second or scale resolutions back in uncharted so they can keep the effects up. so what is the problem with allowing playstayion fans to either upgrade so they can play at what their bloody high def tv is made for and the fluidity of controlling the game or to keep supporting the old ps4 as well?

personally i think this bold new move if it's true is because sony wants to use the playstation brand once again to push a new medium, ultra bluray.

what may end up happening if this takes off and will upset a lot of people is a model much like the cellphones. people don't need to upgrade each year but eventually you will be forced to. not to the latest model but move up. for example you get new hardware every 3 years but you don't have to make a jump until 6 years. which coincidentally is the averege life of a console.

time and again console gamers are either afraid of change or make a big hoopla and song and dance of the worse case scenarion and it ends up being not as bifg of a deal.

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IamTylerDurden11876d ago

K12 is right, both Neo and PS4 use the same games and thus you can be sure that as long as Neo is supported PS4 will likely be supported as well. It actually will extend the lifespan of your PS4. It's simply a positive.

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