Has Sony Hired EA To Market Features Or Something?

Hey how's it going everyone? Been awhile since I posted a blog and my foray back into it is to call Sony out on their B.S. along with all the blind, moronic people fainting at what ISN'T backwards compatibility.

What the hell is wrong with all of you? This isn't backwards compatibility, it's an extension of the "sell you back games you already own" mentality that was born from remasters, PSNow, and PS Classics. All I see are screaming fangirls drooling over this because "ERMAHGERD Dark Cloud AND Rogue Galaxy!"

YOU HAVE TO BUY THEM AGAIN! Unless the games are $2, any other price is too high just for stupid trophy support and HD upscaling. There's only so much you can do with upscaling in PS2 games, it won't look like an HD remake. This is ridiculous and SHOULD NOT be supported.

"But it's an option, and options are good."

It is, but it's not a good option. It continues to add to the precedent that we're stupid and will buy, or re-buy, anything. It proves that companies, even ones with the now laughably hypocritical slogan of "For the Gamers", are first and foremost "For the Money" and not above pricing anything, even features that should be free.

"But it's good for people who don't own these games."

Ok, true. But then why punish those who do by making them have to pay for the games they already own just for stupid trophies? These games come from the days where they had their own "trophies" if you will. Built in objectives that were optional but added to the fun of the game. Adding trophy support gives you nothing and yet you're willing to pay for it?

Why the hell is Microsoft, MICROSOFT of all companies, now doing something actually for the gamers with their version of BC considering Microsoft's general history as a company and the way the Xbox One launched? Yeah, that's a dig at MS, but it's still true. Did you ever think that between MS and Sony this gen, it'd be MS doing BC the right way?

I own Rogue Galaxy, I'd play it on my PS2 if it didn't recently break. Why can I not put my Rogue Galaxy disc inside my PS4 and play it?

BECAUSE THEN SONY WOULDN'T GET PAID THAT'S WHY?!

And there are people all over the PS Blog right now foaming at the mouth over this. Why? What the hell is wrong with people?

You know, I have a history of antagonism with the PC gaming community, but today if they were to say "console gamers are so stupid" I'd have to agree with them. Hell, it may not work the best but PC has PS2 emulation that does what this PS4 emulation will do and you don't have to pay for it. Sure, you need a beastly computer to run it well because Sony made the PS2 just as architecturally alien as they did with the PS3, but assuming you already have a decent rig you can be playing Rogue Galaxy in higher than 1080p right now and not pay a cent.

This kind of move sounds like something you'd expect from EA. It's laced with greed and appeals to the weak willed, the suckers, and the people with more money than sense. Sony is nickle and diming us all with this, and you know the games will cost too much. Hell, the PS1 Classics without trophy support cost too much. I'm expecting these games to cost $12 to $15, no joke.

DO NOT support this. DO NOT thank Shuhei Yoshida for this insult. Because that's what this is, insulting. This is not BC and anyone claiming that it is is an idiot. This is greed. This is worse than remasters of games that aren't even a year old yet. This is unacceptable.

$hame on you $ony.

[Concertoine]

The PS4 plays dvds, so i dont see why it wouldnt be able to detect PS2 games which exist on that format. Like the xbone, all it would have to do is detect what game it is to allow you to download the emulated version.

To the point of HD upscaling, you guys would be surprised how good PS2 games look outside of the console. The PS2 had an infamously awful, grainy picture compared to all three of its competitors, even the Dreamcast which had a VGA output. So you could play PS2 games upscaled to 720p or even 1080p on a PS2 with some conversion cables, it was just the PS2's poor video signal which bogged it down. So i doubt the HD transfer was a large amount of effort warranting these prices.

Developing the emulator itself was definitely not cheap, but i can guarantee you that the 360 emulator was way more difficult and expensive. To this day there is no running 360 emulator on PC, even the PS3 has one that will start.

MS was smart enough to realize that only so much money can be made off of old games, so they are reaping the benefits of it as a free selling point for their new console, as opposed to profiting directly from those old games.

[DragonKnight]

There is no reason. PS4's architecture is pretty much the same as a mid range PC and PC has a FREE PS2 emulator that can read DVDs so there's really no excuse for the PS4 being unable to do so. It's a B.S. argument being made by apologists.

[joeorc]

@DragonKnight + 1d 1h ago
There is no reason. PS4's architecture is pretty much the same as a mid range PC and PC has a FREE PS2 emulator that can read DVDs so there's really no excuse for the PS4 being unable to do so.

Well 1st off no doubt the disc play emulation I doubt is really the problem, as you said.. There is two problems.

With psx emulators now on mobile phones & PC's is there really such a need for it?

The point is home grown Emulator developers can release their emulator charge money, but do not have to worry about license issues with the iP Holder.

Top it off as you stated Consumers can just play them on PC anyway. At this point Sony has to jump trough all of these hoops for really amounts to spending money on a feature for fan service when Kaz was belt tightening anyway. The PS3 lost a ton of profit from the PlayStation Subsidiary part of their company. Out sources a Emulator is of course an option which may be in the cards. But again if an IP hold now has the chance to resell a game with added trophy support to gain extra money they will.

I think it has more to do with the idea Sony is not generation of enough profit for them the way it was in the past it seems the net return was more good will over profit.

I think Sony has changed more to being more of a better ran Business. Now that is of course not good on the consumer level for note or better freebies, I just see it for the reality that it is.

Sony playstation subsidiary is in direct competition with a xbox that is in a Division of Microsoft who can outspend & qiite a bit out profit Sony.

To say that Sony is not looking for PlayStation as a business to gain more net value worth as a top priority is I think to lean topbeing that case.

Every indie studio, every Japanese small studio or publisher that would want to make profit from back catalog games I think is looking at such an option open to them, Sony does indeed have a patent on this added trophy function and I think they want to leveraged that assets more.

While again I under stand where many gamers are coming from, I think Kaz is getting pressure to show more profit from playstation than what they are generating now. As a Head CEO he has no choice but to at least try.

Its bad for consumer's but good for the business.
Its not an excuse, I would say its more about the reality of the situation. When one company is swimming in money and profit,, and the fat cats on walstreet and analysts keep pointing out why Sony is not generating enough profit, Sony's CEO is trying to increase Sony's evaluation to allow Sony to be able to keep PlayStation making new games come to the platform be that new iP's or older iP's with new added functionality to allow developers to gain profit off their work that they gain no money from an Emulator the gamer can just boot up on a PC or smartphone anyway.!

[washd123]

have you ever used the pcsx2 emulator? even on a mid range pc it has performance issues and that's on games that even work. It's not easy to emulate something especially something like the ps2 which had proprietary hardware. It's enough work for one company just to make sure those games even work correctly. Adding trophy support is another not so easy task.

I will agree with people that there should be some sort of way to credit people who already bought these games digitally on the ps3 but complaining about this and acting like it's such an easy feat to accomplish is ignorant and entitled. They don't owe you anything.

[Yetter]

There is no reason why it can't other than Sony has opted to not support this

[BillytheBarbarian]

I may be wrong but I feel like the X1 is just a suped up 360. I believe it was built already able to run 360 games from the get go. They just initially wanted to make money off of it but because X1 isn't selling like Ps4, it was a quick way to get a leg up on Sony. Xbox one, Xbox, 360, and Dreamcast all run similarly. Windows dx11, dx12, and whatever they are up to now. When working on home brew games it was simple to write and convert code from Dreamcast to Xbox to 360. It was usually less than 80 lines of code. Which is nothing. I read what I had to do to get a game running on a PS3 and I just walked away from that mess.

Sony just made the PS2, PS3, and PS4 so different from each other they painted themselves into a corner and now they're hoping gamers will accept this pay service.

[Concertoine]

I've thought about this too.

It seems impossible to make such a good 360 emulator unless they planned it from the get-go. But at the same time the xbone and 360 have totally different architecture between PowerPC and X86 so it couldn't have been easy.

On the flip side we have the Nintendo method, just putting a wii or gamecube inside the damn thing. It doesn't allow for any fancy resolution or framerate increases, but if the game runs perfect and for free and on its original format...

[ABizzel1]

I get both sides, but I don't really understand Sony on this one.

I understand emulation cost, but it also cost MS to make the 360 emulation and they're doing it for free.

I understand that these PS2 games are basically quick remasters via the emulation, but is it really that costly or time consuming to put the game through an emulator that then renders the game at higher resolutions, with better fps, and better post processing when there are emulators that do the same thing made by people who don't have a multi-billion dollar corporation backing them, and again for free.

I don't understand how we can search through our PSN history and see all the games we bought since PS3's inception, yet Sony can check at least our digital history and let up download the games to our PS4, considering MS does this for free.

And even if the money is really that important, I can't understand for the life of me the pricing of these PS2 games. I could see $9.99 at the absolute max which gets you 6 PS2 semi-remasters for the price of 1 full PS4 game while also being able to upgrade your PS3 versions for $1. But even then that doesn't make much sense when Everyone else is doing it for free.

Nintendo's free
Xbox free
PC emulation free and offers the exact same features

Why is Sony charging for this?

[Gazondaily]

Man all I'm asking for is for the ability to chuck in some PS2 discs in and boom.

Tbh, if Capcom vs SNK is out in the digital market, I'd buy it. It's not an ideal solution and no where near as good as what MS are doing but its either this or the total waste of time that is PS Now.

[DragonKnight]

Yeah. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't tempted to give in to this because of DVR possibilities and being able to play some games I never could, but at the end of the day there is no legitimate reason to not allow PS2 discs to be read and played. The games themselves aren't being changed, the emulator is doing all the work.

Hell, Sony could eliminate the trouble by offering the emulator itself as something you can buy separately with all the bells and whistles and just allow for the game discs to be read, but that wouldn't make them nearly as much money as slowly rolling out PS2 games at $15 a pop will. And if our experience with PS1 classics is any indication, we'll be getting some truly terrible games well before any really great ones. These first 8 are to attract attention, after them expect nonsense like Ridge Racer or Tetris Worlds.

[pompombrum]

Capcom vs SNK is out on the digital market, well Capcom vs SNK 2 is on the US PS3 store, even supports arcade sticks too.

[magiciandude]

Excellent blog DK. I support it 100%. This shows how $ony really loves their gamers. Yeah, no. They only love them for their money just like EA. Paying for PS2 classics you bought on the PS3's Downloadable Store again? That is really shameful of $ony. But then again, $ony screwing their long times fans has been expected. I've caught on what $ony has been up to with their change of focus for the PS4 a long time ago, and it seems others are catching on as well. But hey, the sales, why should $ony care about their long time fans?

[DragonKnight]

The same replies will result. Supposed compatibility issues, "it's an option", and I'm waiting for the "this is good for people who could never play these games" excuse.

That's all these are, excuses. Sony is wrong on this, period. The issue of BC is a win for MS this time because they're doing it right. The trophy support and up-res and all of that could easily be done by the emulation software itself in conjunction with the built-in PS4 firmware. These games aren't remasters, not remakes, they're just rereleases using pre-existing features. That's not worth $15, not by any stretch.

[joeorc]

The issue of BC is a win for MS this time because they're doing it right. The trophy support and up-res and all of that could easily be done by the emulation software itself in conjunction with the built-in PS4 firmware.

Its always a win for Microsoft, why they do not have to worry about licence fees for IP holders for games running on a PC emulator that people release on Windows..

IP holder cannot issue a cease & desist against Microsoft because its not a problem for Microsoft.

In the case of the Xbox they do.
But as you pointed out.

"and PC has a FREE PS2 emulator that can read DVDs so there's really no excuse for the PS4 being unable to do so"

So sony has to spend further money just to have a functionality on the system, where home brewers make emulator to run on a rival platform anyway?

Its like this: Sony is looking at it this way, when both companies valuation of what a product platform is worth.. Ask gamers which is worth more .

PlayStation or Xbox? It always ends in , well if Sony's playstation is such a big platform why is it that Microsoft makes more profit than Sony.

After a while like a new CEO taking over you could imagine they are getting tired of valuation of the platform being & taking 2nd fiddle to the "large profit generation" Microsoft gets for xbox

Besides the way many look I would say it has not hurt Microsoft gaining traction on Sony in the North American market being profit driven company right?

[memots]

you would.

[itsjustexuma]

Sony isn't the only one getting paid, the studios and companies that made the game get paid too

[DragonKnight]

Sony's feature, Sony's choice of implementation, Sony's B.S.

[HammadTheBeast]

Why are they getting paid again for the same game?

[Aloy-Boyfriend]

I'm not paying for all those games again since I have none to begin with. I'm not into PS2 emulation that much, but I'd buy Tenchu 3, ape escape, and some others I missed. I don't see the issue with them being $15

I agree PS2 disc should be able to work, but this issue isn't affecting everyone. If you care so much about this why don't you post this on PSblog.com or send this link to Shu? Complaining on N4g won't make them listen, just saying

You PC gamers quote was unneded. PC gamers all the time trash console gamers for whatever reason because they think they are superior to anyone. It's like they laugh at us having toyotas while they have Ferraris. They are the true bully of gaming. What matters most is having transportation, not luxury. That said, I'm having so much fun playing U4 beta and many games I own on console. To hell with spec and superiority. No matter what they'll still shiit on us while gaben also gets away with many bad decisions and talk all because Steam is a monopoly.

[Aloy-Boyfriend]

By any means we shouldn't be called stupid because we still have the option to not buy them. I'm not stupid to re-buy something I already own and many aren't either. Again, I have no PS2 games lying around, so you can expect me to buy some games I missed. Am I stupid for that? Considering Sony doesn't own all PS2 games, you can expect devs getting some money back from this hence why they are $15, which is a good price imo. Don't lile it? Doesn't suit you? Don't buy it. If you have a collection of PS2 games and want PS4 be able to play them? I'm with you. It's wrong, but that doesn't bother me at all.

[DragonKnight]

I'm sorry but it's very stupid to rebuy something you already own, especially when you're rebuying it for no real benefit and the option for having it free is available. You're being an apologist for a feature that's clearly nickle and diming everyone. There is literally no legitimate reason why PS2 discs shouldn't be allowed to work, and there is no justification for charging $15 for trophy support and shareplay since the games themselves aren't what's making trophy support and shareplay possible, the ps4's firmware is. It's triple, possibly quadruple dipping and it's wrong. Anyone that supports it is wrong, and rebuying something you don't need to rebuy is stupid. There's no opinion in there, it's fact. Take any other product and try saying the same thing. Would you rebuy a toaster because it came out in a different colour? Would you rebuy a car because the new windshield wipers clean off water better?

[SegaGamer]

I'm sorry DragonKnight but you're just ranting. You have an opinion on something and if people don't agree with it you call them stupid.

You make a giant blog but when people reply to you you just get aggressive.

[DragonKnight]

"I'm not paying for all those games again since I have none to begin with. I'm not into PS2 emulation that much, but I'd buy Tenchu 3, ape escape, and some others I missed. I don't see the issue with them being $15."

So then why should the fact that you never played them mean I, who owns games like Rogue Galaxy, have to pay for a game I already own? I paid $60 for Rogue Galaxy, should I have to pay $15 for trophies and DVR support that is part of the PS4's built in firmware which I paid $400 to access already when I bought the console?

"I agree PS2 disc should be able to work, but this issue isn't affecting everyone. If you care so much about this why don't you post this on PSblog.com or send this link to Shu? Complaining on N4g won't make them listen, just saying"

Yes it is affecting everyone. By supporting this method of pseudo-BC, you're showing Sony that they can literally resell you anything, multiple time, and you'll buy it every time. This wouldn't be an issue if Sony allowed for PS2 discs to be read, but they aren't and they never will. The bogus compatibility excuse is just that, a bogus excuse that doesn't hold up when you see that PC can literally do the same thing for free. PC and PS4 are architecturally nearly identical, there's no reason why one can do it and the other can't. I'm posting it here because I want to, I have the option of posting it here, complaining on PSBlog, and tweeting it out to Shu, what makes you think I shouldn't post it here? What if all I wanted to do is talk to other gamers?

"You PC gamers quote was unneded. PC gamers all the time trash console gamers for whatever reason because they think they are superior to anyone. It's like they laugh at us having toyotas while they have Ferraris. They are the true bully of gaming. What matters most is having transportation, not luxury. That said, I'm having so much fun playing U4 beta and many games I own on console. To hell with spec and superiority. No matter what they'll still shiit on us while gaben also gets away with many bad decisions and talk all because Steam is a monopoly."

If you knew anything about me, you'd know that I'm normally the last person to ever be on PC gaming's side, but there are some instances where you'd be a fool not to see what's right in front of you. PC can do everything this "feature" can do, it can do it better, and it can do it for free. There's literally no excuse for Sony to charge for this when PC can do it for free. Hell, throw in a capture card and you have limitless recording potential as opposed to 15 minute DVR clips. It's just the facts.

[SteamPowered]

You had me up till you needlessly threw PC gamers out there. The fact that you hate PC gaming because....stuff. You didnt even say why you hate Pc gaming. Just that you are a "PC antagonist".

Maybe just focus on your platform of choice, rather than dragging others into your Rant of The Week.

[Software_Lover]

PC gamers don't trash console gamers because "they think they are superior". Most PC gamers are console gamers also. PC gamers trash console "only" gamers because most of them argue back and forth with each other over stupid $h!t, especially when it comes to performance. Add to that, SOME console gamers keep saying you need a 1500-2000 pc to play games at decent settings, which just starts a tongue lashing.

I play on consoles and PC (when I find the time) and there are advantages to both.

[SteamPowered]

If I could buy extra "Agrees" I would spend them all on this post.

[DarXyde]

I'm not okay with this, but the more I think about it, the more I come to understand it. Again, it completely sucks that I can't revisit my old games on disc, even if they did not feature upgrades.

Then I consider that this is passive DRM, passive in the sense that it's completely optional. When I think about it, I was someone who bought an awful lot of his PS2 games used or came into secondhand by family and friends just giving me their games. That doesn't at all help publishers and developers. This does. But for all we know, I do not at all represent what most PS2 gamers did. Did most buy used? I don't know, but it's definitely pretty harsh to charge supportive gamers $10-$15 for a game they already bought at full price back in the day.

Sony can make this right at least partially IF they are willing to reactivate the servers on PS2 online games such as SOCOM or Resident Evil Outbreak. Unlikely, but it's one incentive.

I've decided to reframe this situation and take it for what it really is. It's not backwards compatibility. It's literally just like the Devil May Cry HD Collection, Ico Collection, Jak Collection, Final Fantasy X|X-2 HD Remaster, etc., etc., only on PS4 instead of PS Vita and PS3.

The backlash is caused because it's being seen as backwards compatibility. It's a modernized version of your old games, as it's been since PS3.

[Rookie_Monster]

Awesome blog Dragon Knight. Totally agreed with everything you had just preached. Sony is ripping its fanbase off.

[rainslacker]

"I own Rogue Galaxy, I'd play it on my PS2 if it didn't recently break. Why can I not put my Rogue Galaxy disc inside my PS4 and play it?"

Because it isn't licensed to do such a thing.

Easy answer. Doesn't require a blog that only regurgitates your comments in other threads on the issue which people already responded to.

Sony isn't reselling you a game you already own, they are selling you an "improved" version. If you want to discuss if the improvements justify the price, that is a sensible debate. But this bickering and whining over not getting what you feel you are entitled to is just sad and immature.

I would love to have BC on the PS4 as much as the next guy. Full BC in fact. But I didn't buy the PS4 with the expectation of that being available. I didn't buy Rogue Galaxy, or any of the other 1000 or so PS2 games I have with the expectation to be able to play them on every PS system ever released. As of right now, I can play them on the various PS2's I have tucked away in a box somewhere, or I can play them on my fully BC PS3, which I brought at launch. If my PS3 ever fully breaks to where I can't repair it, I will get another one that is fully BC compatible for convenience if PS4 doesn't offer it. I would do this, because I am a routine purveyor of retro games, but if I weren't, I wouldn't bother.

At no time, will I demand that Sony make a feature available that they never promised, nor will I whine about it's lack of inclusion. I will behave like a rational adult, and simply send along my request that the feature be made available because it's something I'd like to have...the same thing I've done since before the PS4 released when I sent a note saying a full deluxe BC enabled PS4 may be an option for them to pursue at a premium price.

Sony has taken nothing away from you, and if you're PS2 has lasted this long, and if you still play Rogue Galaxy after all these years, then I think you have gotten your moneys worth, and it would even be nice of you to want to support developers and publishers as they make new content available to you.

Sony isn't offering BC right now. Simple as that. Once you and other people come to understand this you can go about getting what you want in a more appropriate manner.

If this whole thing means so much to you, and you are that desperate to play Rogue Galaxy, send me your damn address and I will send you one of the many perfectly working and cleaned up nice and good PS2's I've collected through my repair business over the years. Heck, if I can find one, I'll even install a boot chip so you can boot Japanese games easily with it. I won't offer a full piracy mod chip, I'm morally against that nowadays, and don't think I have anymore anyhow. If you are that into these old games, allow me to do you that service, and I will do so for the low cost of you stop complaining and instead try to be a voice of reason that you can be in addressing the issue in a dignified and responsible manner. If you prefer, I can simply repair the one you have as well. Heck, you could probably do so yourself as all the repairs are well documented on the internet with plenty of tutorials.

Edit: one last thing.

How is what they're doing now any different than when they offered PS2 classics on the PS3? Did they give away free digital copies to PS3 owners who didn't have full BC consoles if they happen to insert a PS2 disc that was available on PSN? Was it a problem then? If not, why is it a problem now?

[DragonKnight]

"Because it isn't licensed to do such a thing."

Copout argument is a copout.

"Easy answer. Doesn't require a blog that only regurgitates your comments in other threads on the issue which people already responded to."

1. Copout. 2. Wrote the blog before the comments. 3. Can write a blog about whatever gaming related topic I like and doesn't require anyone else's pre-determined criteria for what is appropriate to write a blog about.

"Sony isn't reselling..."

Yes they are. The game is literally the exact same, the PS4 itself is doing the "improvement"." Not to mention that previous playstation BC was able to handle the "improvements" for free, or did you never use PS2's BC or PS3 Phat's BC? Uprezing and framerate improvements were done natively in PS2 and PS3 Phat, trophy support and shareplay is part of the PS4's firmware. The games are not being improved by the devs.

"I would love to have BC..."

Expectation for BC is not the point, or the problem. It's that now that Sony has teased a form of it, they teased the WRONG form of it. Especially when their direct competitor offered more out of the box FOR FREE than they did. That's the point.

"At no time..."

A rational adult knows a cash grab when it appears. A rational adult doesn't try to prevent others from voicing legitimate gripes no matter how many times and in how many places they do it. I never asked for BC, but you're damn right I'll call Sony out on their cash mongering when they implement this insult.

"Sony has taken..."

The "support the devs" argument is a non-argument. They made their money off of these games when they released way back when. You're trying to support triple dipping over a decade after the fact. We are not getting new games, we aren't even getting natively improved games, we are getting the exact same games being "improved" by software that is free on the PC and free from Sony's direct competitors. The XBOX 360 had devs too, are you trying to say that MS and all the Xbox One owners making use of its BC are guilty of not supporting developers?

"Sony isn't offering BC right now.."

Voicing complaints and not supporting cash grabs is the appropriate manner. It always has been, it always will be, feel free to click the back button and not read said complaints.

"If this whole thing..."

Thanks but no thanks. Some things are a matter of principle. There's more at stake than the simple ability to play Rogue Galaxy. These companies continue to set terrible precedents backed by apathetic or apologetic gamers who don't see that they are ruining things for everyone, not just themselves.

Have a good day.

**EDIT** PS2 Classics is just as bad. Why you can't see that not simply allowing people who already paid for a game to play said game when you clearly have the capability to implement that ability is baffling.

[rainslacker]

Copout on licenses...maybe, but it's the truth. Whatever you feel you are entitled to is your own perception and nothing more. It sucks, but that's the way it is.

Copout on your whining...2. sorry didn't know that. Still you seem to regurgitate your whining over and over like it somehow validates it by repeating it numerous times. 3. Yes, you can write a blog about whatever you want. Never said you couldn't. Just questioned what you hope to achieve except to look like an entitled brat. I gave you the reason plain and simple why you couldn't do what you asked, but you call it a copout, and won't accept it. Your acceptance of the issue isn't my problem, it's yours, but accepting it for what it is allows you to address it properly.

"sony isn't reselling" reply

Nope. Reselling would imply that they require you to repurchase that physical copy of the disc. That is THE ONLY thing you brought. That physical copy. That is THE ONLY thing you are entitled to play. You are ONLY entitled to play that on approved systems. The only approved systems for THAT PHYSICAL COPY are the PS2 and fully BC PS3's. If they allow you to play it on new things, or offer things to play it such as MS solution is on their good will, which they have not extended at this time.

I used PS2 and PS3 BC extensively. You should know this by now, but I am a huge retro gamer. I play older games more than newer ones, and I find my phat PS3 to be extremely convienant, and I enjoy using it for the improvements it brings to the game. It does all this passively, much like the PS4 emulator, but at no point do I recall achievements being added to those games while playing them on my BC enabled devices. Trophy support is part of the firmware...OS actually, but how those trophies are tracked through the game software is determined by the game. The game sends a command to the OS to update any trophy information for the game. The emulator provides this function for the emulated game. With the patent being used, the emulator interprits data changes within memory to determine if some trophy variable needs to be uploaded. This is done through the emulator, and is a seperate function from the game itself. It is entirely new code, and has to be programmed specifically for each and every game that utilizes it. It just does not happen randomly, and there is no way to implement it across the board because someone has to come up with the trophies, and then someone has to program how those commands will get sent to the system.

In this, it's probably not best to try to assert to me how exactly these things are done, because I'm pretty sure I know much better than you. My second internship I was responsible for programming the trophy/achievememt code into the game. The publishers are the ones who determine what should be added to the game. It is not within Sony's rights to determine such a thing for a 3rd party publisher, nor would any publisher agree to giving Sony that kind of control without their input. they pay for it somehow, either doing it in house, or outsourcing it. If you have information that states otherwise, please provide proof, because I know of no instance where Sony, MS, or Nintendo, would simply do something like that for free. They didn't wrap PS1 classics for free for publishers so why would they do the more extensive trophy stuff for free? Sony may do the work, but they are certainly charging for it...also known as outsourcing for the publisher. Nothing is free in business. Ever.

[rainslacker]

"Expectations"

Teased it? No, they said they were releasing an emulator for PS2 classics. Sony has stated every time when asked that they were not offering BC. Point blank in fact. They didn't leave it up to interpretation as far as I'm aware. I've seen a lot of comments, and a lot of fan boys trying to equate this to BC, but that's not Sony now is it. If you got caught up in the hype, then that's your problem, and your trying to blame Sony for your lack of understanding.

What their direct competitor does is rather moot. Sony may feel the pressure to offer something to compete due to what the competition does, but that has absolutely no bearing on what they offer now, nor your rights to get free software because you feel you are entitled to it.

"Rational adults"

Never said you couldn't recognize that. Doesn't mean you have to partake in said cash grab, and doesn't mean you can't express what you want without bringing in these arguments that are based on your own misconception of what Sony has offered. Again, Sony never promised BC, you assumed it would be made available.

"Support the devs"

Great, they made the money. They spent more money to bring you these improved versions. Or the publishers did rather. You feel that because you spent $50 10 years ago they should forever support DLC for said game? That's a business paradign which will ruin the industry and you know it. If you feel you haven't gotten your moneys worth after all this time, then sell the game, cut your losses, and move on. If not supporting the industry doing the work because you feel you are entitled to everything for free is your thing, then I'm going to be blunt, the industry just doesn't want you around. I know it's hard to hear since you are the consumer, but people who think like this are leeches which suck profitability out of companies because you demand compensation which you were never promised. It happens a lot, and it's a cost of doing business. If you've ever worked for any retail business or restraunt, you know exactly what kind of person I'm talking about...those customers who demand everything under the sun, and pay the least amount possible, and if you worked in those industries, I know exactly what you thought of them, because I thought the same thing. That is exactly what you sound like, and that is the exact approach you are taking to this whole matter. I know of no industry which offers free upgrades over time to their consumer unless they charge an exhorbitant price up front, and even then it's limited in it's application or restricted to some sort of plan where you pay more than the initial amount.

"Voicing complaints"

Sure, expressing your criticisms, and even suggesting what you feel is proper ways to go about it is appropriate. Demanding, accusing, and making assumptions on why things the way they are is not. Your whole blog reads like a child throwing a temper tantrum, and the best way to handle that is to ignore the child. Letting companies know what you want is appropriate. But doing so in a manner which insinuates they MUST DO THAT, is not. You can make more reasoned arguments than you did in your blog. You can express the same things without the hate. I've seen you do it. That is proper. This blog is not.

[rainslacker]

"Matters of principal"

Uh huh. Didn't you say BC wasn't important before this gen started? Pretty sure you said it's a nice feature, but hardly worth concerning yourself over. I said the same thing. You're only mad now because you don't get it for free. Something which was never promised you. Somewhere in your mind you have decided YOU MUST REBUY the game to be able to play it, but nowhere did you consider if you actually had to. Your principals are out of whack, and most of that is because you feel you deserve something you did not earn nor pay for.

If you feel I am an apathetic or apologetic gamer, then I question if you even payed attention to anything I've said in the past 5-6 years we've been commenting to one another. I stand on matters of principal and fight for what I feel is right for the gamer on here probably more than 99% of the people here. But never, ever, would I feel I am entitled to demand or dictate to these companies what it is they should do. I express my criticism, express the possible ramifications, make my arguments on why I feel that way, then don't support practices I don't approve of. Without fail I have done this through many a critical issues in gaming over the last decade, and I will not stop now. If I seem apologetic now, it's because as a matter of principal, I do not like people behaving the way you are because of some self entitlement on the way things should be because of whatever reason you can muster to feel superior.

Stop the hyperbole, rationalize what Sony is doing, and consider if what they're doing is truly a disservice to the gaming industry and consumers, or if it's just something that isn't for you because you don't care to partake in the action. There is a huge difference between disliking something, or having no interest in it, and it being cause for making it a matter of principal. The only principals at play here are which one offers a better solution to playing older games, and neither of this is critical to the success of the gaming industry, nor is it critical to the player in the long run. Sony was not wrong when they said the feature was not that important, because for the vast majority of consumers, it is not. Sales of this gens hardware should prove that, and plenty of gens went by when BC wasn't even a consideration.

[rainslacker]

PS2 classics

Why is it just as bad though? It's easy to say it's bad. But why? What possible bad outcome can it have for the industry or the gamer beyond not being able to play old games on newer systems? If that comes to pass, what are the actual ramifications for the long term to the industry and the consumer other than the inconvienance of having to keep older systems, or having to spend more money? And finally, how much impact is either of those going to have on the industry or consumer at large considering BC is a rather underutilized feature in the grand scheme of things.

I can see why it's baffling to not allow it. I can even agree with some of the reasons you state they are doing it. What I disagree with is your assertion that it is somehow anti-consumer, and that it is forcing you to do anything. What I dislike is that you assert your reasons in a manner which isn't productive.

Competition may sort this all out in the end, but people need to get their focuses right on the actual topic, and stop with trying to equate PS2 classics as Sony's solution to BC. Lots of people use many of the same arguments for PSNow, and you were always correcting them on it. But now...you are acting the same way they are. Think about that. Analyze each and every argument of yours, and then change emulation to PSNow, and see how they are the exact same argument.

Sorry to be so harsh, but I know you are capable of doing better in expressing these kinds of criticisms, and we don't need more of this crap, we need more of the rational to get people to demand what is actually achievable.

[DragonKnight]

I think it's hilarious that you call me a whiny, entitled brat for this blog yet you write out an entire book worth of replies to defend Sony on this. I'm not going to respond to everything, I'm simply going to say this.

1. PS2 and PS3 (initially for PS3) had full BC for the previous gen. None of the PS1 or PS2 games that could be played utilizing BC were licensed to be played on the devices making use of BC. You have no argument and are simply being an apologist.

2. The factual amount of work that any of the publishers (read: PUBLISHERS, the devs aren't doing anything) have done for this amounts to the following.

Sony: Hey, can we put this PS2 game up for sale on our PS4 store?

Publisher: We want $____

Somy: Ok.

And then the game is put up for resale. Absolutely no work is done to the games. Any work that is done is done either by Sony's emulator, which if we follow your logic is just a repurposed PS3 emulator which means the costs to Sony are nearly non-existent, or the PS4's firmware, which we pay for when we buy the console. So you're defending publishers being paid for literally doing nothing but saying "sure."

Your attempt to believe that trophy support is tracked in game is laughable. The games do not have the ability to to initiate trophy support, the firmware simply checks for certain flags in the game and that is how trophies are tracked, not by the game but by the firmware. **EDIT** This is strictly the case for older games which can't be patched to have trophy support put in. Sony did patent a method of trophy support for older games remember?

3. Your notion that there is a difference between owning the physical copy and owning a digital version is also wrong. Ever heard of the rules for software backup? If you own a physical copy of a piece of software, you are legally entitled to digitally backup that software and use that software digitally because you paid for the software on the disc. Sony are reselling software you already own, with no improvements made in the code just by their own proprietary software that you can't buy. So yes, Sony is reselling games.

Finally, I challenge you to show me how much money a publisher spent to say "yes" to Sony to put the exact same game they already made on their store. Because if you think that the publisher did any work to their games for this you're naive. That logic would have to carry to the PS2's BC for PS1 games and the PS3's BC for both previous consoles and we all know that thousands of games were not suddenly improved for the launch of the PS2 or PS3 to make use of the "improvements" those console's BC brought to past games.

You're being an apologist, a bigger whiner than you claim I am, and part of the problem with the industry.

**EDIT** I want to reiterate that BC, in general, is not a big deal/necessity. But since Sony has chosen to offer a version of it, then the method they've chosen is the problem, not the inclusion or exclusion of it. In general, I don't care about BC, but I'm not going to give a clear cash grab a pass. I didn't for remasters, I didn't for PSNow, why would I for this?

[joeorc]

Bingo!

"and PC has a FREE PS2 emulator that can read DVDs so there's really no excuse for the PS4 being unable to do so"

The point in how the emulator works in conjunction on every game has to be done on a game by game basis.

Its not random nor is all trophy's randomly generated.

[rainslacker]

1. Maybe you didn't know, but publishers had to approve for their games to be used on that software emulator on the PS3...exactly like what MS did. The reason being is that Sony does not have a right to circumvent their own copy protection for games licensed by publishers to use on that particular system. MS software emulation...same thing on 360 and X1. There is a file on the PS3 which can be edited to enable more games. Works similar to PSP games on the Vita. Sony got around this with PS1 games, and later PS2 games on the PS3 by including the hardware needed to run the games. Every PS3 still comes with the hardware to run PS1 games, they only removed the emotion engine.

2. You know this? You don't even seem to have an undestanding of what's being improved on, so how can you in any way say that this is how it all goes down? That is entirely assumption on your part, and no, those trophies do no just magically appear because Sony wills it into existence.

The game is not put up for resale, it's put up for sale. Again, resale and sale are two different things, and the PS2 classic is not the same product you brought 10 or more years ago. Again...it's as simple as that, no matter how you want to try and twist it towards you being owed something. No matter how much I may want exactly what you are asking for, this point can not be refuted.

Trophy support itself isn't tracked by the game itself. It's tracked by the system software. Same with achievements. The game itself simply sends flags to update the trophy information to the system. That's how it works. That's why you can gain trophies across various save files for games which do not have a master system file. Older games, by the very descriptive patent which Sony released do this by not altering the original game code...but by monitoring memory to initiate those flags. That is going to be done by the emulator, not the software itself. That has to be programmed by someone, along with creating the trophy list itself, along with creating the text contained within, along with going through the certification process of having those trophies, along with making the artwork that accompanies those trophies, along with the costs of getting a new ESRB rating. It DOES NOT just magically happen because Sony asks if they can do it. That is the most rediculous argument in all your assertions. Someone does some work, someone is paying for that work to be done, and you are paying for that work when you buy the product.

3. Yes. I know the rules for software back up. Did Sony remove your right to back up your software? If so, I suggest you contact a lawyer, because that is illegal.

However, legally, directly for Sony and Nintendo, and by precedent for everyone else, these same publishers are in no way obligated to provide you with that back up, nor are they in any way compelled to provide you with the means to play that back up. Never has this been the case. Name me one instance where this is the case. They are within their rights to prevent you from using that back up, but they are not in their rights to prevent you from playing the back up with means that aren't directly released by them. However, a judgement by the court has also said that they are within their rights to deny you the right to use any software should you use such means because the negatives outweigh the positives. This however is not set out in case law, and has yet to be put into precedent.

Kudos though, I haven't heard the back up argument since my pirate days...not that I equate your reasons for using it as piracy.

[rainslacker]

Again, Sony is not reselling you software you already own. They are selling you a different version of that software you already own. If you can't see this distinction, then the whole argument is just lost on you. Maybe this will help. Are we entitled to get the GOTY edition of a game for free just because we brought a game on day one? Since the overwhelming answer would be no, I have to ask, how is this different? These releases have more content, presented better, which can be equated as not much different than a GOTY edition.

I can't say what a publisher will have spent on allowing for emulation. But logically, if it's as simple as you say, wouldn't publishers be chomping at the bit to have it done? If it was free, and as fluid as you say, wouldn't the PS2 classics be more popular with publishers than MS solution since there is no expenditure on their part, yet nothing but gain from possible sales? but that isn't happening. Right now, it's rather minimal what's out there, and even with the PS3, there weren't tons of classics available. I'd imagine the bare minimum would be around 50-100K to release a game this way, not including any marketing should they do it. Licensing IP's or copyrighted material alone could cost more than that in some cases. That's based on the fact that someone has to be paid to create this trophy set, someone has to be paid to test the game in the emulator, and Sony has to be paid for compliance testing. Yes, it is that complicated. Sony may make parts of that process more fluid, but never can I even fathom that they are making it as easy as your example above.

[rainslacker]

That being said. No, I am not a bigger problem in the industry. Here's a cold hard fact. Developers and publishers are moving away from engaging with the community because of the types of self-entitlement that you present in your blog and comments. For a developer, nothing they do is right. No matter how awesome they make something, no matter how hard they work, they are scrutinized, criticized, and have every word in their comments picked apart to serve this vitriolic, hate filled, cynical, and self-entitled community. This concept is the exact thing that springboarded Leigh Alexanders article about gamers being dead, and while it went wildly off topic from that, I can at least agree with her on that one single salient point that started the whole thing. If you think developers and publishers are happy to put up with this constant abuse, and have hate flung at them borne from entitled assumption then you are way way off base.

You have every right to express what you want, and every right to express how you want to express that. But you are not free from being called out in how you express that. I am not defending Sony on a matter of principal, I am standing up against the entitlement which you are representing. You claim that your coming at this from a matter of principal, but at no point have you made any kind of principal known. Everything you say is a matter of entitlement. Every last hateful and assumptive word.

Today, I was spending time with colleagues, watching football, and I brought this topic up, and how I got into it with a forum goer and just how entitled gamers are in certain things, and these 20-30 year veterens of the industry all pretty much said, "Glad to see you now see why we don't bother"....paraphrased of course. Every last one of them saw me as overly idealistic in my viewpoints for the past year, but with your comments, you've only shown me that none of this is worth my time or effort. No one cares what I have to say about any of this stuff, and developers don't really care what you have to say. They appreciate those who can make their arguments or express their concerns with respect and rational reasoning, but those voices are too often drowned out by people who write the crap you've written with this blog and replies.

So I'm done discussing it. I'm leaving all this hate behind. Both for my professional sanity, and for the sake of enjoying the games again. May be best for everyone really. I welcome you to pat yourself on the back though along with everyone else while you blame developers for deciding to ignore you because you can't approach these topics the way they should be....which was the whole point of my first comment.

Edit: I may have been off on the details of my PSNow assumption, and you didn't support it, but I never once recall seeing you equate it to BC, nor say you were entitled to it for free.

[Lukejrl]

Two theories....

1) The BC of the ps2 and the phat ps3's basically had the previous system(s) guts inside. This allowed them to get past the licensing issue because the games were licensed to play on their native hardware. So regardless of what the console looked like, it was being played internally on a ps1 or ps2. That is why when ps3 went slim they went to software emulation, which they either did not realize the licensing issue or simply paid anyone who complained because they already advertised it. Then they even removed the software emulation most likely because of the licensing problem.

2) Because of this licensing garbage, which I would simply get around by using lawyers to license to the company only and not a specific console under that company if I could, we have no bc in ps4. To manufacture guts for old ps1's and ps2's would be expensive. So we would be using 100% software emulation for both systems and thus licensing issue.

Just my thought on why they can't simply release an emulator that reads discs without jumping through the hoops xbox is doing. Still they should do it, and open up all the ps Classics to Ps4 store. Some money is better than no money to the companies who made the older games

[rainslacker]

Theory one is mostly correct. The PS2 and PS3 had the prior gens hardware inside to allow the BC in the way you speak of. It wasn't actually emulation, but running on the original hardware, and that allowed it to be perfectly legal.

For the software implemented BC in the 80GB MGS version of the PS3, they left the bios on the system, although I don't know if it was the actual bios or done through some sort of emulation. Parts of the PS2 still remained within the PS3 though. When other versions came out after that, it contained none of the PS2 chipset, although I'm not sure of the bios, and the emulator had to run purely through software. The software emulator did require approval by the publishers, but the emulator wasn't 100% to begin with, and Sony either gave up, or publishers weren't biting on allowing BC for whatever reason. That'd be my guess anyways.

It's possible the PS3 couldn't handle a fully functioning emulator given how the CELL operates, but any assumption on my part would be pure conjecture and not based on even half the details.

Part 2 you are also correct, it comes down to licensing issues. I doubt lawyers would help get around it, as publishers would be careful about how they allow the license early on, and I'm sure much of it was pure boilerplate...otherwise Sony could simply be more of a OS provider and possibly release a PC version of the emulator which would be perfectly legal. Anyhow, most licenses I've seen for console games have specifically stated it's approval for specific hardware. I'd imagine MS is the same, and that's why they now need publisher approval for any title that has BC. With the 360 emulation though, there are digital versions available for sale which means the publisher can still sell those games on the new hardware, so it's pretty much a no brainer to allow it unless they have some other financial interest involved...say a remaster or collection coming in the future. On top of that, MS can't simply distribute the digital versions because they feel like it. I would imagine that the publishers weigh the benefits of getting those extra sales on the X1 as worth giving away free licenses to those who have brought the game already, since they are unlikely to buy it again.

I'd imagine Sony could also offer something similar to MS in this regard, and don't see why they wouldn't even if it's just a basic non upgraded version, but at the same time, there isn't a huge collection of digital PS2 titles to distribute. PS1 titles though may be a completely feasible way to go for ones that have a digital release.

Some of the reasons why this isn't free is most likely due to licensing, although it can be argued that Sony could still offer it for free like MS does. There may be other issues invovled as well beyond the licensing. And of course, it could just be Sony cashing in. No matter what it is, fact still remains that BC is not available on the PS4, but it's possible to buy some improved PS2 classics.

[FAT MAN GO BOOM]

This is funny... why all this hate.... did anything get written like this when Nintendo has been doing this well for the last 2 generations.

why is it Nintendo gets a pass but it is sony that is the devil...

Sony is a company they are there trying to make money like any other company. now the awesome thing is if you don't want to pay for that classic game... break out your old console and games and play those...

That said the Majority of gamers have already sold off their older consoles. So why should sony offer something for free to them when they don't even own it any more....

I bought a ford once... does that mean ford should allow me to drive any of there older models when ever the hell I want for free...

Entitlement... that is what is the problem. You are not force to pay anything... get your older systems out and play those games if not.. pay for the convenience to play those old games... at a fraction of the price they used to be...

[wellard]

I dont think its fair to say Nintendo got a pass. Just have a look at the sales figures for the wii-u. I think its fair to say that they got no such thing as a free pass.

[maniacmayhem]

Why is it that whenever Sony is getting criticized people have to bring up Nintendo?

Nintendo also offers free BC with Wii and free online, how come no one is talking about that?

"So why should sony offer something for free to them when they don't even own it any more...."

Oh, you know this for a fact? I love this plain and simple generalization that people come in to defend Sony. Instead shouldn't you be asking why Sony doesn't offer it for free?

"does that mean ford should allow me to drive any of there older models when ever the hell I want for free.."

A better comparison would be, you bought a ford, paid it off but then decided to buy another car, now Ford is charging you more money to drive the older ford car you paid off. Does that sound fair?

"Entitlement... that is what is the problem."

Willing to bend over and accept anything, that seems to be the problem. Sony can do no wrong and if anyone complains about it their entitled. Be happy handing over more money to to a global company raking in millions a month.

[joeorc]

Or they can just pop in the ps2 game on their PC DVD drive.

"and PC has a FREE PS2 emulator that can read DVDs so there's really no excuse for the PS4 being unable to do so"

That's always how Microsoft has played it in the PC market..

Play "your" software on "our" Operation System..is:

We make "your" software "our" software.
That's exactly why the freaking game console market was made in the first d@mn place, but here we are again..

Now Microsoft's bringing in the PC windows OS into the Living room again..just like the Media center PC.

Look at it this way this says it all does it not.

"and PC has a FREE PS2 emulator that can read DVDs so there's really no excuse for the PS4 being unable to do so"

I sold my system..but please make your new system play my old games just like my.

PC can already do with your Software!
Its the same d@mn thing, its not about keeping software open its about making walled gardens in console gaming, but at least Sony unlike Microsoft is not trying to monopolize the entire d@mn garden.

Microsoft again does not have to worry about license fees for those emulators that home brewers make for their Operating system.

Sony Doesn't..many gamers say why buy a PlayStation if I can just run an emulator on PC, So Microsoft has Backward compatibility on playstation 2 & playstation 1 software without having to lift a d@mn finger or pay out any license fee top it off they just talked about streaming from PC to Xbox one.

Do you and others not see this?

Its the same thing over & over again You cannot compete with a company that has in the console place as a market where if its Xbox + PC releases is seen as a = Microsoft exclusive

Where is if its
PlayStation+ PC is counted as a loss because its on a windows platform also.

When home brewers can screw over your platform like that what's Exclusive than?

Thanks for playing , but all your " exclusives" are " really " our exclusives.

At least by doing it this way makes the older exclusive unique.

[garrettbobbyferguson]

"Entitlement"

Why yes, I do feel entitlement. I want these companies to fight over who gets my money with better feature; Not tell me to suck a fat one and pay more money to play old games. A single generation of backwards compatibility should be the standard now at least. Sony is the only company not offering this. Whereas Nintendo allows BC to the Wii and Microsoft is offering BC to the Xbox 360. Meanwhile previous generation Sony was the only company to REMOVE backwards compatibility. But remember Sony are:

#4theplayers

[rainslacker]

Here's the problem though. There are two things at play here.

There's the side which is a philosophical debate on whether a company providing what is asked for in this blog as to whether those things would be helpful to Sony and the publishers in the long run, and how that would benefit the consumer as a whole, both now and later, along with some other stuff the publishers have to consider, which would be less important to us as gamers. You allude to most of those things.

Then there's the side which condemns the company because they do not get what they feel is justly deserved from the original license they purchased.

Dragon's blog falls squarely in the latter, and most of the more salient points in the debate are being ignored in favor of this more entitled mindset.

Some of the things you bring up are entirely relevant to the whole debate, and if the blog had been about that, my other comments in this thread would have been much different. But to me, having some divine right to be given access to these things is not really something that should even be debated...at least not in the way it's being done now.

[ginganinja]

Where the f*** are Sony pointing a gun to your head and saying 'this is the only way you can play Rogue Galaxy, et al, from now on?'
You still have the same options you previously had, using an old PS2 - for which the game was written - or the original PS3 (which including extra chips and COST MORE).
Sony are saying that this is the best way for them to offer the chance to play some old PS2 games on the PS4. It's not something to get mad about, it just is.
Maybe there are technical issues which would make 'stick the PS2 disc in the PS4 and it works' unreliable, and rather than face patching it several hundred times and having their support centres face have to answer thousands of 'why wont my copy of Dragon ball Z : budokai tenkaichi 2 work' calls, it's more straightforward to do it this way.
After all that, I'm going to sit down and watch my copy of the original Star Wars on VHS... Goddamnit Sony!! It wont even fit into the slot on the Blu-ray player!
Oh, well, I'll console myself by listening to my old Vinyl LPs, and... WHAT...!

[joeorc]

Microsoft
Xbox+PC = one single platform now

Sony
Playstation is playstation
Exclusives are supposed to be that right?

Some home brewer makes a d@mn emulator and makes it for what main OS?
So as a company how do you fight that?
Do not make it easy to duplicate something exclusive for the IP holders software.

The home brewer does not have to spend money to licensed IP rights, he does not have to get permission.
He does not care or needs to care.

Does Sony care about their gamers anymore?

What trying to keep their exclusives, you know exclusives? To make sure the software stays that way, the PS2&1 already have Android & windows OS emulation for those disc's already..so why even bother?

To give back to the fans who support them all these years? You can look at it as Sony not giving anything back and turning its back on the consumer, well that is your right. But the fact remains Sony is trying to keep exclusive Software exclusive , than to worry about fighting to spend money on emulation software that already can be done not just on Windows OS but Android OS also.

I mean how many PS1 & PS2 iso's have already been dumped already anyway on the freaking internet anyway?

"PC has a FREE PS2 emulator that can read DVDs so there's really no excuse for the PS4 being unable to do so"

Hell Microsoft gets more good will out of Emulation backwards compatibility for playstation software than even Sony does..

Lmao

[TwoForce]

@DragonKnight Look I understand, but this is obvious. Remember, they did confirmed the PS2 games coming to PS4. But they never did said The BC. That's what i thought in the first place. Remember Star War Bounty Hunter on PS4, the game had trophy, 1080 p and 60 fps. So i knew it was not going to be free. They did the same thing with PS3. The reality is that not everyone can't be please the decision which company had made. We are not leaving a world where everything can be free, peaceful, happy and friendly place. We're living the world of unknown where there are unpredictable thing can shock you, scare you and made you cry and upset. There are paid and free. I don't against their choice or defend it. I did that a long time since i was 19. I lost my trusted friend after he found out about me involed the campaign which i can't tell you about it. But it hurt me so bad after what i done. So i'm not involve the justice and righteous or coprate BS. I'm done.

[Roccetarius]

And now, Dragonknight, you see the side of the coin i've been against for quite some time now. Well, at least you see it with some more opened eyes. People will do almost, if not anything to defend their decision to do this, and not question why they didn't do what you suggest.

Microsoft may be in the right on this issue, but make no mistake, the console manufacturers are in this for nothing but their own companies.

The PC is much more open in nature, but unfortunately it also comes with its compromises, due to DRM software like Steam, Origin, Uplay, etc. GOG sells digital games, but you can save them externally and install them at all times.

Remember when i linked to the PCMR Reddit? That page is there to educate people, and make them see just why those manufacturers hold us back. A common misconception, is that you need a monster to play games, but that's not true in this day and age.

[1trillindividual]

You realize ps2 is/was 2 generations ago. You can buy a ps2 for dirt cheap now and just play the games on your tv if it's really that much of a problem. I understand you have your opinoin and you want things this way. Seems just like for the majority and a younger crowd. We can play ps2 games for cheap, nobody is calling this backwards compatibility. These are HD upscale with trophy support and as a consumer we/you don't have to buy it. Also it would be the same thing if Microsoft had the original xbox games they'd want money money from it to. At the end of the day it's a business, you have options and choices.

[Christopher]

*** nobody is calling this backwards compatibility***

Actually, lots of people are. Which is sad.

[Christopher]

I hate how people call this BC.

And, I agree, they could do software recognition of a disc and enable the download of the title with the emulator container on each game (exact same thing XBO does right now). Why won't they do it? Because there's more money in doing it this way and they feel that people will otherwise hunt down used copies rather than giving them and the publishers more money.

It's so sad when Sony forgets how they got to be #1. It wasn't by watching their profit margins and delivering ports and remasters. It was by giving the players what they wanted without attempting to make a buck out of every possibly turn.

[MrBeatdown]

Not sure why this "I already own it" thing is such a big deal here, but isn't an issue when it comes to remasters.

Nobody pooped themselves when Rockstar asked $60 for a PS4 version of GTA, even if you had the PS3 version. Why is it such a big deal when you have to pay $15 for San Andreas?

Are we going to do this with every game that isn't cross-buy now?

[gangsta_red]

"Why is it such a big deal when you have to pay $15 for San Andreas?"

Because now people are starting to realize that it's getting ridiculous to have to hand over another $15 dollars for the same game.

[MrBeatdown]

If it really was "the same game", people would just play the versions they already own.

[gangsta_red]

"people would just play the versions they already own."

That may be convenient for some but not all. I have Rogue Galaxy, Mega Man Anniversary, Grandia III, and the last FF all for PS2, but no PS2. Having PS4 play these games would have been a heaven sent.

It's the same game in the sense that there's no other added mode, design, levels or characters for most of these remasters. Same game with a higher gloss of paint.

[MrBeatdown]

When I bought San Andreas for PS2 in 2004, I didn't expect all future versions to be made available to me for my convenience.

Same game*

*with a higher gloss of paint.

So, not the same.

[gangsta_red]

I also didn't expect a company to make PS2 emulation available and then to be charged to play my games again. I guess life is full of surprises.

An apple painted blue is still an apple.

*Same.

[MrBeatdown]

You keep pretending they are identical. You conveniently dismiss the differences to pretend they are the same, just to justify your entitlement. If it's all the same to you, stick to the original version. Your convenience isn't Sony's problem, and was never promised to you when buying your first copy of the game or a PS4.

Do you do this to every company? Planning to demand free Blu-Ray, DVD, and digital copies of Star Wars just because you have it on VHS?

I wouldn't eat an apple painted blue.

[gangsta_red]

No one is dismissing anything. You're just not saying how they aren't.

You keep goin on and on about just play the original as if it's that simple (and CONVENIENT) for everyone. Then throw in buzz words like "entitlement" and now all of a sudden you're automatically right.

"Planning to demand free Blu-Ray, DVD, and digital copies of Star Wars just because you have it on VHS?"

So wait, now we're comparing completely different media formats? If I have an old DVD I expect it to play on a new DVD player...or is this not expected from any company? Am I being too entitled asking for convenience?

Would you eat green eggs and ham?

[MrBeatdown]

You compare painted fruit to video games, but have a problem with comparisons to movies? Really?

If that's too extreme of a comparison, I already compared these "same games" to remasters. Hint: both are video games. Hopefully that's a more appropriate comparison for you, much like your painted apples.

And good news! If you have an old PS2 game, it will play on a new PS2. That would be a perfectly reasonable expectation, and I certainly would not feel that you are entitled for requesting such a feature. Hope that helps.

[Z501]

"Your convenience isn't Sony's problem, and was never promised to you when buying your first copy of the game or a PS4.

Do you do this to every company? Planning to demand free Blu-Ray, DVD, and digital copies of Star Wars just because you have it on VHS?"

THIS! THIS! THIS!

What happens when the only VCR in your house dies? You buy another, right? We didn't/don't demand Toshiba put VHS playback in CURRENT Blu-ray players, do we? ... But Sony "You have to"

Total ENTITLEMENT mentality.

[kagon01]

Off topic. The where games that where supposed to be released for the PS3, but then $ony decided to make them exclusive for the PS4 or Vita(inferior to ps3 in specs). The reason they did that is not because the PS3 is old. They did that obviously to have more paid PS+ subscribers with their "new" console.

Each year gamers will have less and less choices...

[freshslicepizza]

this is where nintendo deserves some credit.

[Apocalypze]

So does Microsoft.

[Apocalypze]

PS4 is PS4 if you want to play PS2 games go buy a PS2 if you do not want to buy the games again , plain and simple. Sony fans are the most bitchy people i have encountered so far.

[2pacalypsenow]

Im pretty sure its the Sony fans who are defending Sony's emulation tatic

[2pacalypsenow]

Who cares Sony is trying to make money, they don't need to give us an emulator anybody that really loves playing ps2 games or will spend time playing them already has or should have a Ps2 console. As long as it doesn't affect the Ps4 I don't care. Damn Sony for trying to make money right??