Disliking is Not Hating

So, I've been a member of N4G for a little over two years, not hugely active, but browsing every day and commenting occasionally.
In that time it has become apparent that any negative comment, be it mild and genuine or harsh and abusive, results in the same conclusion.......Being labelled a hater.

I was under the impression that being able to comment on a story was to, how shall I put this........Oh yes, to comment. Yes, I will gladly agree that some out there take things too far, but can we all agree that it's not just the overly negative remarks that are a problem but also the overly positive? Polar opposites if you will. Or what some might consider The Fanboy and The Anti-Fanboy. We have extremes that are as annoying as each other and usually neither are aware they are one.

Where am I going with this you may ask, truth be told I'm kind of winging it so bare with me. The problem I find most distressing is that everybody in the middle with the tiniest sniff of a mildly, inoffensive and largely observational comment is now automatically labelled a hater. It gets worse, sometimes with capital letters.....The horror!

I don't think anybody of a sane mind could actually hate a game, look up the definition you may get this - to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest. Bit over the top don't you think?

So, to the meat of why I'm writing this......There are games, peripherals and hardware that I am not in any way interested in owning at this time, by which I mean my mind is open to change. You could call it a dislike if you want to label it but it's certainly not hate. There are game franchises I used to love and would not have a problem doing so again if unwelcome elements were not present. Despite all of this I will comment on a story I have an opinion on that I would like to share, even if it's negative. What would be welcome is if any replies were not automatically "You're a pathetic hater, if you don't like it what are you doing here?",or the now common "Hater's gonna hate". I'm sure we're all capable of sensing a genuine anti-fanboy, which I would recommend disagreeing with, troll voting and ignoring but if you're not sure how about engaging in a debate to further educate yourself and the commenter with a differing opinion, you never know, a common middle ground could be found and this website may well improve it's reputation. I am aware that this is near impossible for a fanboy or anti-fanboy, but try it, grow up a little bit, you might enjoy it. It's got to the point now that I've devolved into leaving sarcastic comments because I despair at the lack of intelligent conversation.

I'd like to end with this.......Everybody is entitled to an opinion, you don't have to agree with it, but you should always respect it. But by all means ignore the extremes.

Oh, and please don't assume that all I do is leave negative comments, quite the contrary, I just had to get this off my chest.

Damn it! I thought I was done.......I would like to add that popular franchises, I'm not singling any out, can and will be disliked, believe it or not for genuine reasons that a good number of people will dismiss, ignore or otherwise defend to the death. They are not disliking them to be cool, not the adults at least.......I hope. Now, if you found this post offensive, please go ahead and keep it to yourself......Only kidding, I'd like to hear some opinions, sensible ones of course.

[INehalemEXI]

2 years ...all of a sudden you activate beast mode huh.

[Emilio_Estevez]

Where's the dislike for blogs?

Just kidding of course, you hit the nail on the head.

[MacDonagh]

I agree with this blog. I've only been here a short time and already have six people who ignore me which is fine I guess. If you have enemies; it means you stood up for something.

[Megaton]

*disagree*

*bubble down*

*reported for spam*

Welcome to N4G.

I've received angry PMs from all the major fanboy food groups. Nintendo fans because I don't believe the Wii U will be the greatest console and console launch ever. Xbox fans because I don't care for Halo, Kinect, or XBL Gold fees. Sony fans because I think the Vita is redundant in an age of mobile ubiquity.

It's best to laugh at and ignore the angry responses to your moderate opinions and dislike of dislike-able things. There's nothing you can do about it, and they're guaranteed to arrive sooner or later. Irrational keyboard warriors patrol these streets night and day.

[SeekDev]

But mobile can't equate to the power of a handheld gaming device. After all, mobile is for social use and on the side gaming, and handheld gaming devices are aimed at gamers where the social features are on the side.

*I wasn't the disagree, I agree somewhat with the rest of your comment*

[Megaton]

That's the only really big difference (that and better controls than mobile). Minimally better graphics for the time being. That won't last forever, though. New phones come out a lot more frequently than new handhelds, and we're already a long way from Tetris.

Thing is, though, how many people wanna spend several hundred dollars on a new gizmo just to pay a couple dozen more for a 5-hour portable Uncharted when they can just drop a couple bucks on Angry Birds and play that for hundreds of hours on the go?

They're competing for the same pocket space, but I think their offer is weak. Sony has always focused on "console experiences" for portable, but I think they've always overestimated the demand for such a thing. If I'm trying to kill time on the road, I just want a quick distraction, not something I'd wanna play on a big screen while sitting on my couch.

When I had a PSP, I played through GoW:CoO once and found myself just thinking about how much better it would have been on a console. The game I played the most on there was Patapon 2, and when that got stale after a couple months I just sold the thing.

Maybe I'm just not their target audience.

[SeekDev]

I agree, you're not their target audience, and neither am I. When I'm out, I'm not looking to game, I game at home and that's all really. Others are different and like to hardcore game on the bus for 40mins, I need a longer sitdown personally.

[awesomeperson]

I don't know how you're getting so many disagrees.

Sure mobiles can play games, and there are some very neat apps out for mobiles. When it comes down to it, most people will find that if they truly want deep, polished games, then a portable gaming system is the way to go. Not a mobile.

I admit mobiles are brilliant for when your on the go, or on a short trip, commuting etc. But other times on a bit of a longer journey, a portable system is much more enjoyable.

That been said, it does seem that handheld gaming devices will have increasing amounts of trouble versing their mobile counterparts. Mobile games are become better and better, and have a huge enjoyment factor, and sometimes, an ease of access that handhelds can't quite live up to.

[SeekDev]

Ya win some ya lose some. That is the way of N4G. I do find it weird that so many think mobile is for hardcore gaming, but those are opinions and I'm alright with that. I simply have an opposite opinion.

The graphics difference between mobile and handheld (mainly Vita) isn't minimal btw. Far from minimal.

[Ben_Grimm]

I agree with you Megaton with your mobile take. Some people on N4G just can't seem to understand this. They can't understand why or the reasoning some folks prefer mobile over the Vita.

The Vita is a great device but it is not necessary to most when they have cheaper options or a device that games and does a lot more in their everyday use.

They keep saying that mobile phones cost just as much or more than the Vita. Which maybe true for some mobile phones but what they don't realize is this mobile phone will be used a whole lot more than a Vita. In fact it will ptobably be used 80% more than any dedicated gaming handheld.

@SeekDev
I don't know anyone on N4G that thinks mobile gaming is for hardcores. Even though there are hardcore games for mobile.

[ZoyosJD]

Any thoughts on the whole overreaction to disagrees. I just thought that there should be something on that as well.

[SilentNegotiator]

I agree. People really over-react to getting disagreed with.

[SilentNegotiator]

zomg look at all these disagrees! I hate dis site!!!!

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[Fez]

It's funny when people state an opinion and get disagreed with and then go off their head thinking people won't let them have an opinion lolz.

But phantom disagrees when evidence and reason are used are soooo annoying. I was on n4g's footie sister site 11x2 discussing an offside decision. I quoted from wikipedia (lol maybe not the best but it wasn't an academic comment :P), pointed out the time in the video where a helpful white line across the pitch was shown and who's body parts made them offside... and still I got some disagrees from blinded Man United fans. No explanation as to why I was wrong, just disagrees. I don't think that's an overreaction... it's the same as the loser ending a discussion in real life with "hmph, well, you're still wrong and I'm not going to change my opinion *walks off with nose held high*". Infuriating.

Some video game fans are a lot like football fans, you can lead them down a logical path but they won't accept the conclusion if they don't like it. Many are also extremely biased without even realising it.

[coolbeans]

It's amazing to see how often edits made by disagrees changing everything about their statement or just making it worse for them:

-Someone makes a well-made critical statement against one of the big 3, receives disagrees, then literally curses at others in an edit. A shame they fall victim to that.

-Another would be posters replying with an inane statements then (while sitting on their throne of judgment) quickly ostracize everyone disagreeing with him/her as being in "that group" in an edit.

In the end, I guess some still need to understand the agree/disagree isn't necessarily a right/wrong dichotomy. Others may see truth in that statement, but may simply disagree with how you're presenting it. Or they may respectfully disagree with your side of the argument yet still reach an understanding of where you're coming from.

[ZoyosJD]

This is a perfect example situation. My original post has 1 agree and 5 disagees as I see it now.

Some people would at this point just go off in an edit or reply cursing everyone.

Or the "Whats with all the disagrees?...fanboys."

Yet, I realize there are three well thought out replies on the subject (particularly yours) and to boot each in practically agreeing directly.

Personally, I believe that their removal would stimulate more cognative responses that are more in line with the topic.

[smashcrashbash]

I think that if you don't like something you should at least keep it to a minimum how much times you say it. I dislike Kinect but I don't jump on every Kinect article saying how much I think it is a bunch of junk. There is this guy here called Mike Cosgrove and every single article about PASBR characters he has to list what characters aren't in it and how he doesn't like the new Dante and wants the old Dante and how it doesn't have enough PS1 characters .

It is fine to give your opinion but you have to realize if you give it too many times you start to sound annoying. Giving someone a negative view of themselves for instance is fine but if you tell the person the negative thing constantly without fail it leads to anger and frustration. I think that is why sometimes you are labelled a hater because you constantly jump on the situation every time it comes up.

I personally dislike the fact that every Mario game gets high scores no matter how bad it is. I played New Super Mario for the DS and it was one of the worst Marios I have ever played. But I don't jump in every Mario article and say that. Sometimes I think people are so eager to give their opinion that they don't realize that they have said enough. I even understand. I understand why people prefer the old Dante over the new Dante in PASBR but if you feel you need to say it thirty times especially when it is not up to you that is when I get annoyed. The company won't change Dante especially sine Dante doesn't belong to them. I don't mind if you have a different opinion then mine but if you jump onto every article without fail repeating basically the same point you made each time only with a few different words and phrases I may just start thinking you are a hater even if you are sincerely concerned or have a point.You have to understand that there will be people who don't like your opinion whether you have a good point or not.

[user5467007]

and theres you in every other PSA article defending the crap out of it bashing peoples opinions down.

Your the type of people Flatbattery is talking about in his blog. Do I say when commenting on an article "Oh and by the way I don't like smashcrashbash comment above"...no I don't

Thats the problem with people like you, even though these people who comment have opinions you get so p*ssed off that someone dosen't have the same opinion as you that you decide to comment on them DESPITE that user not targeting their comment at you, merely the game or developer the article is talking about.

It comes off as being immature and even being a personal attack on the user your commenting on, I mean you've just mentioned me in your comment and was nasty about it was there any need for it, it's sly an two faced. Hell you even went as far to send me a PM one time to explain how much rage you felt over my comments....I mean wow, come on

Fact is people say the same comments all the time for a number of reasons. It's a commenting site it's how things work, fair enough if they were copy and pasted directly in each article but they arn't.

Hell sometimes it's because you think an aticle isn't going to get approved, say your comment on another related article only for the previous article to be a hot topic.

If people can post possitive comments like "Love it because..." or "This game is great because..." all the time on related articles then why can't the negative ones be posted...again this is what the blog is talking about

You whine about other people and say the same crap on all the PSA articles, you do it aswell just in a differn't way with a differn't opinion. So in a way your a hyprocrict, people like you seem to think that other people can't have an opinion if its not possitive, I don't yell at you for liking the new Dante for example do I....nope. All my comments have been rpelied to by you running your mouth, hating. I've probably posted once on your comments...thats t

So stop being such a hypocrite and chill your beans...although I do thank you for being a prime example of what Flatbattery is talking about.

[Ben_Grimm]

I agree, people on here who call out others who are not even present is a very cowardly act. I know a few *wink* n4g posters who make a bad habit out of this and then in the same breath say they're being stalked by the users they rant about.

makes no sense at all.

[Mike_Tha_Hero]

I like this site's concept, but it really is the bottom of the barrel when it comes to journalism.

The comments are usually fanboy circle jerks, making me not even want to discuss the stories.

[Bladesfist]

I think it is fair to say that the biggest group of fanboys on this site are the PS3 fanboys. I posted the other day about the vita saying I do not believe it's sales are a giant conspiracy against Sony, It is just people who want more games and got downvoted and flooded with a list of games I have never heard of.

"Of course the Vita is "dead", it's a Sony product afterall.
It would still be called dead if it sold a billion units, that's just the way the media are nowadays. Sony hate has become a fetish for a lot of websites." Loads of agrees.

"There is no conspiracy. People want more games on the damn thing." Loads of disagrees.

Everytime I say a good thing about Sony I get agreed with. Everytime I say something slightly negative about one of its products I get disagreed with. I really wish this site would get a bit mature so instead of fanboy voting we could have actual discussions and debates.

[AtomicGerbil]

In my experience it's just as bad on any Microsoft or Nintendo article, I'm a little inclined to think that with the whole "full of Sony fanboys" belief it could well be a case of hear it enough times it must be true.

I could very well be wrong but my take on the whole subject is this - If this site is full of petty Sony fanboys where are all the Microsoft bashing articles, the front page should be bursting to breaking point with them.In reality they are rare.

Sony is dragged across the coals on a regular basis, and recently so too has Nintendo. While I'm not condoning the behaviour don't you think Sony and Nintendo fans have little more reason to be defensive.

There is unlikely to be a conspiracy against Sony, but you see why people think it.

[beerkeg]

'If this site is full of petty Sony fanboys where are all the Microsoft bashing articles'

Well that's actually something you can use as evidence that it is infested by Sony fanbois. The most popular stories will likely be based around Sony, and that includes the stories that bash Sony.

The Sony faithful will rally to the cause at any given moment. Just look at the hottest stories, it gives you an idea of what is what on n4g.

EDIT:As for your blog, I agree. If you make a remark on n4g, if it is seen as negative, no matter how honest your opinion may be, you will see the disagrees flow in.

Oh well, the system is flawed. Very flawed, but until a rival site comes out that does what n4g does without those flaws we are stuck here.

N4g is the best place for gaming news I've found, and while the community posting aspect of it has a quite ridiculous system that stifles conversation, it still provides that news.

I find better converstions to be had from the sites that make the articles. You can comment on many of them without the problems to be had here.

Every cloud has a silver lining and all that.

[Ben_Grimm]

"If this site is full of petty Sony fanboys where are all the Microsoft bashing articles,.."

Go to any Kinect article and you can see mods working overtime because of all the trolling and hate going on. Xbox sales is the same way. There have been just as many doom articles for Nintendo but they hardly get any action UNLESS it's a WiiU is as powerful as PS3 article.

Now I'm not saying that this site doesn't have its xBox or Nintendo fanboys but it is very obvious that the weight of the Sony fanboys is heavier than the other two.

[A-Glorious-Dawn]

People like to call N4G the home of the Sony Fanboy.
It's a bogus defense argument though.
There are indeed more Sony fans, or fans of Sony on this site than of any other platform.

Notice that I didn't say fanboy.
one can prefer Sony over any other platform and not be a fanboy. The word itself gets thrown about a lot, and it mainly used as a last defense when someone is about to loose an E penor measuring contest.

In fact, many communities have more Sony fans than others these days. There is less trolling on a lot of sites I have been involved with, that's for sure. Go look at the comments on IGN or on some of the other articles sites that have been submitted. You will see the same trend as here, N4G is not some random isolated gaming community, It mimics many communities around the web.

[smashcrashbash]

That is a bunch of BS. That is just something people say when people don't jump to say Sony sucks every second like they want them to. If I go on any Microsoft or Nintendo article and say anything negative about anything I will get an avalanche of disagrees just as fast. Try to go on any Nintendo article and say that you think the new controller for the Wii U looks bulky or that Halo is being milked in a Microsoft article or try to say that Pokemon or Mario are getting tiresome or that Nintendo is becoming lazy with their sequels or even point out the low scores New Super Mario 2 is getting or even say that Microsoft is copying Nintendo with their new devices. Come back here with your missing bubbles and say that again.

[coolbeans]

What I've begun to consider is how often we could be mistaking 'fanboys' with just simple 'fans.' It's not really impossible for truckloads of people on here to have a favorable disposition with Sony simply because they grew up, or are growing up, with their favorite franchises being exclusive to that brand. Once they were to see some of their ugly business moves however, I wouldn't be surprised to see most of those posters fairly criticize the company.

When you look at the amount of "Sony hate" articles with a fresh pair of eyes, you get an inkling that so many of them are sensationalist.

In the end, I suppose it's really going to come down to the articles you dive into.

[A-Glorious-Dawn]

I mentioned this above before I saw this comment.

I totally agree, people bunch everybody into fanboy category when most people are simple fans.

It's ok to have a preference, people forget that. But a fanboy is categorized by the disposition to blindly follow the company even when they are not doing things right.
Commenting saying you like something can be mistaken for this, usually by those with a disposition to hate everything a certain company does, even when it's baseless and illogical.

[Fez]

Good blog.

I'm not a fan of the response to those who comment "I don't care about x". This is a legitimate comment to make as it just expresses that you're not a fan of the subject and won't be buying it. You're basically expressing your opinion.

The response is usually "well you must care if you bothered to come in here and comment". But it is possible to care about the discussion of a subject but not the subject itself. I mean how many times do you chat with you're friends about something you all don't like and aren't interested in?

I must say it is pretty useless to just say "I don't care" without any reasons so this is one of those instances where both comments are pointless and just use up the precious internets.

Dislikers gonna dislike.

[LightofDarkness]

Absolutely agree, and I've pointed this odd phenomenon out before. It also pertains to a wide variety of things, particularly in the music business (which is where these kids get it from).

It's simply a means of shirking off responsibility for your own shortcomings (or those of something/someone you love) and blindly ignoring any criticism whatsoever. But the reality, more often than not, is that people have genuine criticisms and observations that are not being pointed out to wound or demean, but in the hopes that they will be considered and used to refine things for the better. Dismissing criticism so flippantly is disrespectful, and gives the impression that you think whatever is being criticised (be it your favourite thing or you yourself) is beyond reproach and already perfect, which is RARELY, if ever, the case.

It is a disease brought on by the "self-esteem" craze we had in the '90s and so forth (people with low self-esteem should just assume an elevated sense of worth despite not accomplishing anything, etc.).

That said, there are some genuine "haters" out there, that is, those with an irrational hatred or dislike of something. No amount of rebutting or clear logical reasoning will make these people see things any differently, and it usually is down to a lack of understanding coupled with the will to resist any kind of further understanding (that would be the part that differentiates the ignorant from the wilfully ignorant or "hater" types). For instance, I've noticed there are a few such people who enter numerous PC gaming articles just to tell everyone they're elitists and "entitled" etc. Same people everytime, and it's clear they're just there to bash PC gaming and the people who enjoy, for whatever reason (I'm going with inferiority complex coupled with narcissism somehow).

But yes, it is a cancer that is pervading society as a whole, the belief that one's works are beyond criticism from others is a troubling prospect. How can things be expected to become better over time is nobody is allowed to recognize their flaws?

[Captain Tuttle]

Fanboys are sensitive.

News at 11.

[poolsharky27]

Somewhat related to the blog:

In regards to games, going on message boards and official game forums you will find a lot of people 'hating' and disliking the game and certain aspects. These people always get called out by the blind people who love the games and see no faults. Generally these people who are 'haters' love the game/franchise and are complaining because they want it to be a better experience.

'Haters' generally want whatever it is they are hating to aspire for more bigger/better things. They want to like/love the game. And in my opinion it's usually the fans/lovers of games who lower their expectations and still claim the game is awesome that are the ones actually doing a disservice to the game by blindly liking it. !!!!(FF13 or Diablo3 come to mind)!!!!

But that's just one breed of hater, and of course there are exceptions, blind haters/opposing product haters/I hate everything haters.

Anyways.. I'm just rambling here now.

[InTheLab]

I blame pop culture, specifically, the Chappelle's Show skit about R Kelly pissing on young girls. "hater gonna hate...ballers gonna ball". Now, as funny as that was, it started a phenomenon of the misuse of the word "hater".

Where did this word come from? Wayyyyy back in the early 90's, hip hop culture coined the phrase, "player hater" (not just "player", which has been around since the 40's and has multiple meaning depending on the era). What is a player hater? A player hater is someone that is jealous of the "player" and hates that person for no logical reason aside from who that person is, or what they possess, whether it's women, clothing, jewelry, etc.

ex1: You've had a crush on a girl since you were kids. She's with some dude that you know is out cheating on her. You do your best to break them up by telling the girl how much of an ass the guy is and why you so much better for her than he is. You are a player hater...

"Don't hate the player, hate the game..." Remember that bulls***? You probably don't if you were born in the 90's

Now, over the years, the phrase has shifted and simplified to "hater" and it's meaning has been twisted by younger generations that don't take the time to understand the culture behind the word....but it still resembled the core concept of the phrase prior to Chappelle's show making it popular again.

ex2 and most common use of the word "hater": You're in a beat up Accord and you see a guy driving an exotic sports car. The first thing the hater will do in this situation is give reasons why the guy in the sports car is a piece of shit, despite knowing very little about that person....or tell you how sports car guy is compensating for something. We've all seen the compensating joke...the person that invented that joke is a hater.

So today, a hater on the internet is pretty much someone that has a differing opinion that just happens to be negative. It drives me nuts every time I see it. "HATERS!!!!"..." ;HATERS GONNA HATE".

It doesn't stop there. You know what I hate to see more than the misuse of "hater"? The word "mang". Good god these kids sound so stupid using misusing slang from a culture they'll never understand. It's not mang, it's MAIN...as in Main Man. "What's up Main?". Not sure where this Mang s*** came from but I just assume it's from a bunch of kids that heard it in a few rap songs or some tv show and thought they were hearing "mang".

annnnddddd...I'm done with my old man rant now...

[born2live]

Just a few days ago I saw someone asking if the BestBuy Blowout 2.0 was also announced in Canada, and the poor guy got so many disagrees, I just couldn't believe it. What is wrong with the N4G community? it's like everyone is 15 again... or are they?

[Soldierone]

It's just something you get used to here. Sometimes the haters get to you, or hit you by surprise, and you end up getting mad, but you can't really let it do that. People are sitting behind a computer screen, of course they act tough and douchy.

You just gotta be honest, and tell your opinion. A lot of people will tell you theirs and have good conversations with you. It might be 3 comments of "your stupid!!!" then a 4th one of "well here is my opinion" and thats the guy/girl I'll talk to. And not everyone will agree, but a lot will. Plus I find the "haters" amusing, they do everything to prove you wrong or their opinion as fact, and fail to do so. It's even funnier when they PM you because they are afraid to say it publicly.

I agree entirely with the "you don't like it so your just a hater!" crowd, its annoying. Don't like a Sony game? You must despise Sony. Dont like the latest COD? Then your just trolling COD articles. Its like, really? I praised the last COD but MW3 sucks, end of story. lol

[IHateYouFanboys]

when a site is run by fanboy votes and/or fanboy moderators, thats what you get. unfortunately, n4g is both.

i received a 7 day ban for a comment that i made, and the comment that the moderator wrote on my restriction was, and i quote:

"blah blah blah, have another cry."

during that ban, approximately half way into it, i lost 4 - yes you heard me, 4 - bubbles. i hadnt posted for ~4 days, and i lost 4 bubbles in 1 single hit, and it doesnt take a genius to figure out who took them away.

the bubble system on any site is not the best solution, and especially not on a site like this where all it takes is to get on the bad side of one over-zealous fanboy moderator and you lose all of your bubbles, never for them to come back.

[NotSoSilentBob]

But the Bubble system does prevent people like from only posting negative comments in an article about something you obviously hate. IE you hate Sony/PS3/Vita and all you post in, are those articles and all you post is anti-Sony comments.