Wait, are we religious in here?

I've always thought of gamers as atheist. Probably because I was of the impression that gaming nerds are also to some extent science nerds. Certainly I am. I certainly didn't think there were gamer theologians, at least not any considerable amount, given the quarrels certain Christian/Muslim environments have had with gaming over the years.

What changed this perception of mine was another silly top 5 article, entitled "5 craziest religions in gaming". I thought it would do for a fun 10 second read/scroll and decided to browse through it. And, apart from my initial disappointment that the treasure worshipping penguins of FFXII wasn't mentioned specifically, I looked at the comments section here on N4G. The first comment was, and I quote

"To me all religion is crazy, be it in games or real life."

Which really is what you'd expect to see on any gaming site. And while I don't necessarily fully agree with it myself, I expected it to be one of the more agreed upon statements you can make here on N4G. Boy, was I wrong. There were actually more disagrees than agrees! Only slightly more, I'll give you that, but I was surprised to see the disagrees in double digits for an article that didn't reach too many degrees.

This comment was followed by the typical "overkill" statement, in which the person answering is waaaaaaay more serious than the person who wrote the initial comment. And I quote:

"fact is, only an ignorant would say so. you can't say "All" unless you learned enough about all religions. i'm not saying enough for you from where you're standing but enough to fundamentally understand a religion in order to develop an objective opinion instead of a subjective thinking.

in another word, think outside of the box."

I would usually be kinda rude against this sort of commenting, because it demands everyone to nit-pick their comments, but let's put that aside for now. This got a lot of agrees, because it's so politically correct, and then someone said
"same could be said about the big bang theory its just crazy"
and got FAR more agrees than disagrees. Now, arguably my reply to this comment is just as overkill as the reply to the first comment, and I probably did overreact, but I'm a bit surprised to see other people letting that one slide. Are we not all Neil Degrasse Tyson fans in here? Do we not all have a picture of Michio Kaku on our walls?

Furthermore, there were actually several people in the comments section who took rather radical stances in favour of religion. I'm not going to say I'm against religion per se, but I just didn't expect that to happen on a gaming forum is all.

Now, far be it from me to comment on the intelligence of the N4G community. I don't think that has much to do with this, I've always thought of gaming communities as a diverse bunch of Ron Paul fans, Obama fans, conspiracy theorists, Friedman fans, Hitchens fans, Krugman fans and soforth, but I just never quite expeted many of us to be religious. Maybe the six religious people on N4G commented on that article, maybe they're trolls (in which case I'd say some of them appeared very serious), but I have to ask some questions.

What's your opinion of gaming communities and religion? Are you religious? Are you a creatonist? Are you a science fan? What's your experience of religion in gaming communities?

And for God's sake... let's keep it civil.

[Chaostar]

Let me just post a pic that is not only relevant here but also in the British/American AC:3 controversy articles...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.aka...

I cannot stress enough the need for a revolution in the psyche of every human being and such revolution cannot be brought about by any external entity, be it religious, political, or social.

Now I'd just like to lighten the mood with a fun George Carlin quote...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.aka...

Thanks for reading and not bubbling down just because you disagree :)

[TopDudeMan]

That is so true.

I myself abandoned my Catholicism years ago. One day I just asked myself if I really do believe in what I'm being taught in school R.E. class and my answer was that I just didn't see it. I didn't see how going to a "holy" building once a week made you a good person.

I think some people need it, though. Some people need the motivation of having an afterlife to keep them going and that's fine, I'm not judging anyone for thinking that way, as it gives them hope in a sometimes cruel and brutal world. It's human nature. I for one only believe in what I can see and explain.

Edit: oh, and good blog post, OP! :D

[GameGuy]

So, you believe life came from nothing?

[TopDudeMan]

@GameGuy, that statement is so ignorant.

I just stated that I don't believe we were created by an omnipotent being.

I don't know how the human race was started, I wasn't there and neither were you. But I have a pretty realistic notion of how it wasn't started.

[thorstein]

@Gameguy,
Can't you creationists come up with a better argument. You do know each and every creationist argument against evolution has been debunked right?
We evolved. We know we evolved and we have empirical evidence that we evolved. If you want to claim your god (sorry not sure which god you follow) put evolution into motion... fine by me, that doesn't harm anyone. Denying a sound scientific education does.

[mynameisEvil]

@thorstein
Every argument against Evolution has been debunked, hmm?

I have one question. One. A very simple one.

How did this mass/matter/whatever evolve? By that I mean, how did it get there so that it would eventually evolve.

It had to get there somehow, didn't it? The same could be asked of Creationists of God and for that, I have a response: When we die, we will discover is there truly is a God or not. If there is, ask Him how He got here.

Well, kind of my two cents being thrown in.

[HammadTheBeast]

I find that religion is very acceptable, but it is important to keep on your own terms. Don't go around criticizing others on their beliefs, focus on your own. And with the way that so many religions are twisted and portrayed because of minorities within that religion, the world is pretty messed up.

[coolbeans]

but I have to disagree with the first half of his quote. It seems...a bit desperate to contort a term like 'violence' to also meaning a human's natural drive to define himself/herself, whether through geographical, religious, or other means.

Separation, and the independence in defining yourself from others, has basically caused the same amount of physical + mental harm as a forced unity; history can vouch for that.

[SeraphimBlade]

Well, I'm a Catholic, but I'm very moderate. eg. I believe in evolution (which is completely okay with the Church.) I'm also a lot more socially progressive. (gay marriage? sure, why not?) In fact, the separation of Church and State is very important to me. (name one theocracy that ended well)

I think what's important to understand about my beliefs is that I'm well aware that I could be utterly and completely wrong, which is why I don't force my beliefs on others or expect others to share them. The people I can't stand are people who DO act that way. (and people who group me with those people) The same goes for acknowledging that there is a dark side and negative potential for any set of beliefs (or a lack of any.) It's all in how people perceive or use those ideas.

On the subject of gaming and religion, Dragon Age: Origins is FANTASTIC example of religion in fiction. It has its born-agains, its crazies, its moderates, its progressives, and people that just didn't buy into any of it. The organization of the Chantry does both good and bad in the world. I really relate to Lelliana in it, whose faith adds meaning to her life, even if she doesn't fall in line with all of the chantry's practices.

[Hufandpuf]

Same here. I'm raised Catholic and even though I went to a Catholic school, it's not like I live and breathe the Bible. I'm just a regular guy just like everyone else. I don't impose my views on people, and I don't argue with people over the internet about it.

The only thing I think EVERYONE should follow in religion is to BE A GOOD PERSON to the best of one's ability. You don't even have to believe in the bible, or church, just treat everyone with respect and everything's fine.

[Ducky]

Well, science and religion aren't exactly opposing terms. What usually pains me in most discussions about religion is how everyone throws science around, some thinking it to be their friend, others thinking it to be their enemy, while none of them actually know a whole lot about it.

Liking games doesn't really imply you're a science nerd, and I haven't seen any trend from the people I know. It was a stereotype two decades ago when gaming was seen as something a nerd would do. Ain't so much the case nowadays when everyone and their gandmas (thanks Wii) are gaming.

As for things being 'crazy', I really didn't find anything wrong with calling religion or the big bang theory (not the show) as 'crazy'. Firstly, because it's just an opinion and secondly, to me, something being crazy or ridiculous to believe doesn't mean it is false.
The wave/particle duality is crazy, yet it is accepted as true by most.

As for games, I like RedDeadRedemption's portrayal. From the priest in the intro to Dickens to MacDougal.

[thorstein]

I'm sorry, did you just call the Big Bang "crazy?" Lulz... that is a good one, but it looks to have been a typo?

I mean, you wouldn't call Einstein's Theory of Relativity crazy, or Evolution crazy or Elasticity or Gravity crazy would you?

[beerkeg]

That's not what he said at all. He said that calling something crazy doesn't mean it isn't true.

[jessupj]

The big bang theory is called a theory for a reason.

I could write an essay containing the numerous flaws is said theory but I'll just leave you with this little one...

Darwin said his theory falls apart if it is discovered that a single cell is of a complex makeup. And of course later we did discover that a single cell is very complex, contains hundreds of individual components and carrying out specific processes.

If you want to believe in the theory of evolution I respect that but please don't be so arrogant as to imply it is fact.

[goldwyncq]

I'll keep this to the point

Not all science nerds are Atheists as you've stated in your first paragraph. As a Christian I take genuine interests in science as well. After all, I believe that God created science itself to impart knowledge to us, to improve our way of life. You and the others made it seem like Science is a religion itself; something that opposes every facets of Christianity and other religions as well. Look, I may not believe in some of the scientific theories proposed but I don't believe that this planet is 6000 years old either.

Stop thinking that all Christians are anti-science.

[SilentNegotiator]

It's been said, but science and religion are only mortal enemy's in the heads of angry, indignant, one-minded or ignorant people.

I know creationism isn't invited to the science fare, but there are plenty of interesting theories and parallels out there. And that's all ANYONE has....theories. Science changes constantly....look at how many of Einstein's theories have been disproven lately. And they were theories that scientists OPERATED on and took as FACT.

I don't pretend to have a strong belief either way. I grew up in a religious household on one side, and as an American born within the last 50 years I had darwinism forced on me as fact (when other things are forced on us as being strictly correct with absolutely no substitutes or alternatives, we usually call that "delusional oppression"). It's very apparent that things like creationism are shoved out the door too fast.

I'm not going to get into a debate because I have no interest nor do I believe that this particular debate has ever ended well with anyone satisfied (unless they leave sniffing their own farts). But I will say this.....

Why would people of religious background not play video games? Unless you're talking about the Amish. lol

[GameGuy]

That's true. Saying someone of a religious background wouldn't play video games is like saying they wouldn't watch a movie, or read a book other than the one that is for there religion.

[Megaton]

I wasn't gonna reply, but people who pretend creationism is somehow a victim sitting on a legitimate foundation and is worthy of actually being forced into schools as an alternative to evolution drive me up the wall. You have to come to the table with more than "I can't explain it, so it must be God" if you want to be considered an alternative to a scientific theory with mountains of evidence in its favor.

As an open-minded agnostic, I don't think the idea of a supreme creator has to collide with evolution. "God" could have lit the match, and then evolution enabled the spread of life in wildly different directions. It's entirely possible that organic life is a combination of the two.

The problem is when you try to pretend creationism is science. It is religion through and through. 100% faith, built on an inherent lack of evidence. Teach it in your Sunday schools all you want, but it has not earned any sort of parity with evolution.

[pr0digyZA]

"built on an inherent lack of evidence"

I believe there is a lot of evidence to support a creator ie Nothing produces nothing as science teaches so how did everything begin?

Even Stephen Hawking, considered the best-known scientist since Albert Einstein, acknowledges "...the universe and the laws of physics seem to have been specifically designed for us. If any one of about 40 physical qualities had more than slightly different values, life as we know it could not exist: Either atoms would not be stable, or they wouldn't combine into molecules, or the stars wouldn't form the heavier elements, or the universe would collapse before life could develop, and so on...."

[raytraceme]

but prodigyza:

"...the universe and the laws of physics seem to have been specifically designed for us."

This could very well be said like this "we were created through the laws of physics." hell if the laws of physics were to be different so would we.

The question of if god exists is far from being answered. And to the argument of how did we come from nothing I could very well ask how did god come from nothing?

Science is very intriguing and unless we get into contact with a super smart alien race, then we won't be finding out answers for a very long time.

Then comes the question of religion. Religion was a way for people to cope with their troubles and fears in the beginning. Then religion was made for a way to control a population of people. Then religion evolved to trying to better ourselves. However know I see religion as a way to either: scam, belittle, and brainwash people into hating others.

[Megaton]

@Prodigy - There's no evidence of anything in that statement and creationists have made quite the obnoxious habit of distorting and performing selective editing on Stephen Hawking in particular. Assuming that quote is correct, what he said is simply an observation on the nature of our universe, not a smoking gun proving the existence of God. It is also presented in a way that ignores the fact that the vast majority of the universe is incredibly hostile to life, and that there could be multiple universes with completely different laws.

Again, I'm not closed to the idea that our universe originated from a creator. I'm simply against faith being disguised as science.

[Imalwaysright]

OMG i Cant believe that some people believe in creationism. Its astounding to me but i guess thats a north american thing.

[Chaostar]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.aka...

I hate it when schools try to "force" all these things on you as facts, I mean I never wanted to learn math or how to read and write. They spoon fed us all this 'evidence' and forced us to think critically, with reason and logic. I wish I'd just stuck to the first fairy tale I heard as a kid, I hear ignorance is bliss.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/...

Edit: Judging by the agree/disagree ratio, 360ice was right that there are more 'believers' on this site than you might think. However I don't want to perpetuate his stereotyping.

[coolbeans]

"Edit: Judging by the agree/disagree ratio, 360ice was right that there are more 'believers' on this site than you might think"

It's kind of pathetic to hide behind this as to why you might be getting disagrees. You and I both know there's a better avenue for discourse-especially in these types of threads-than to just hammer someone else with annoying sarcasm.

While silent did say he doesn't want to argue about this, that doesn't mean he can ignore that flashing "N" on his av forever. Detailed and inviting approaches to the conversation will go much farther than slander and random pics.

Weren't we meant to keep this civil?

[Chaostar]

"It's kind of pathetic to hide behind this as to why you might be getting disagrees"

Civil you say? Anyway this was not an excuse, just an observation.

Yes my comment was sarky but you can't advocate inflicting your beliefs onto innocent school children then expect not to have a heated debate about it.

Since Silent clearly stated he was only interested in slapping his opinion on this page and not discussing it, mildly mocking him was a way of tempting him into an actual debate. A trap you seem to have stumbled into instead and for that I apologise, no actual offence was intended, to you or anyone.

My "detailed and inviting approach" is right there at the top of this page, he chose to ignore it already.

As for the pictures, I don't see how they are random considering they reflect my opinions of the matter at hand very accurately.

So, anyway, Mr beans, what's your opinion? Evolution or creation and why? I think I deserve an answer since you have judged both my comments unworthy ;)

[coolbeans]

-" 'It's kind of pathetic to hide behind this as to why you might be getting disagrees'

Civil you say?"

...We can let the community decide in the end, but I thought that statement was within the realm of civility, given the comment that predates it. My comment doesn't boast any sort of slanderous retaliation against YOU, just your defense as to why you might be getting disagrees and acting as if your approach is without its own criticism.

-". . .mildly mocking him was a way of tempting him into an actual debate. A trap you seem to have stumbled into instead and for that I apologise, no actual offence was intended, to you or anyone."

If you believe THIS is/was the best way to invite well-mannered discourse for a sensitive topic then you, fellow poster, have already harmed your argument outright in the eyes of many.

-"As for the pictures, I don't see how they are random considering they reflect my opinions of the matter at hand very accurately."

My intention for the "Detailed..." portion was geared more towards arguments in general. Probably should have given that its own separate space.

-"I think I deserve an answer since you have judged both my comments unworthy ;)"

You're starting to jump the gun here. I may have disagreed with Krish (partially)/Car's statements and your general approach in your reply to silent, but that doesn't mean I thought these were "unworthy." Sorry if you got that notion.

There are posters who can legitimately disagree with the content, or a portion of the content, in your posts without having to go on some 'bubble down' raid (like you were suggesting in your first comment).

[Chaostar]

"...your defense as to why you might be getting disagrees and acting as if your approach is without its own criticism."

Again assuming my intentions was to defend my disagree ratio as if I somehow feel I shouldn't have been disagreed with is a leap I can understand you making on THIS site but not all of us are like that, certainly not myself. I pride myself on being open minded and I won't have people questioning this so condescendingly.

"If you believe THIS is/was the best way to invite well-mannered discourse for a sensitive topic..."

I never claimed it to be the "best" way only the way with the most chance of getting a response. More assumptions on your part. The plan was to tempt him out of hiding, I could easily have apologised to him and quickly changed the tone back to "well-mannered discourse". Now, I've wasted my bubbles defending myself from your, ever so slightly pretentious, assumptions.

"There are posters who can legitimately disagree with the content, or a portion of the content, in your posts without having to go on some 'bubble down' raid"

Of course there are, where did I say there weren't? However there are some that will try and silence your opinion should they disagree and the bubble vote system gives them the tool. Also like you said this is a "sensitive topic" people will be easily offended by conflicting 'beliefs'.

Since you seem to have danced around the question of your own opinion I'm going to assume you wish to keep it private, which I respect. However curiosity has the better of me, since you are usually very articulate and opinionated. If you are afraid to let people know here, I'd ask you to PM me a response, you have my word on discretion.

[coolbeans]

-"I pride myself on being open minded and I won't have people questioning this so condescendingly."

If you pride yourself so much in it, then it seems fair for other posters to constantly demand you show your open-mindedness on this topic and not use cheap measures in order to "tempt people out of hiding."

-"Now, I've wasted my bubbles defending myself from your, ever so slightly pretentious, assumptions."

I don't mean mean to be rude but... (this next portion is just my honest first reaction from reading your last reply ->) spare me and other posters statements over your bubbles to explain your case. If you're going to reply to someone with condescending tones of your own-especially when championing your open-mindedness with lines like "I mean I never wanted to learn math or how to read and write. . ." then should you really expect a different treatment?

Even YOU seem to admit that reply wasn't the best way to pursue an intelligent discourse, but the one with the easiest chance to getting a response. So you're more interested in hits instead of trying to produce enlightened responses? You could have just as easily responded with interesting sites or replies similar to that other posters above you, rather than slamming him with sarcasm and two pictures.

-"Since you seem to have danced around the question of your own opinion I'm going to assume you wish to keep it private, which I respect."

In all honesty, you asking that question came off as a way for you to dance around the main discussion at hand (for the plethora of obvious reasons I don't need to state) in my eyes. I don't have anything to hide: I'm a Christian.

Endnote: I'm not sure what else to state :P. Whether you want to save your last bubble for a reply on here and PM me is your decision.

[Chaostar]

This entire argument:

1. I make a sarky comment on the internet
2. You tell me off
3. I agree that it wasn't ideal but it had a point
4. You re-iterate, continue to 'tell me off'
5. I agree again and go into more depth
6. Again you hammer away

We could do this all day/night but as you pointed out, this is my last bubble.

In all honesty your whole argument reeks of personal distaste, not just for how I expressed it, which was obviously tongue-in-cheek, but also for what I actually expressed. Almost like you want my comment to be removed for 'personal attack' or 'offensive' because you disagree with what it represents. Now that you've let it be known that you're in fact Christian just makes it all the more fishy.

Anyway this discussion should have ended after I agreed the first time but by all means keep hammering away, you'll excuse me if I don't reply back again.

Edit: just gonna slap a few more pictures in here then at least there was a point to all of this...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.aka...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.aka...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.aka...

@ below

Keep swinging that hammer.

Calling me paranoid now too, conveniently breezing over the fact that just because you think someones intentions are "childish" does not make it so. I decide what my intentions are and nobody else, your ability to ignore them when I tell you doesn't change that.

OK, let's say I WAS acting completely immaturely with no reason other than to offend silent, for what possible reason would I defend my position from his knight in shining armor(you)? More importantly, why have you taken so much of an interest in trying to prove I was acting "childishly"? Really, what's in it for you? You've wasted all this time, for what?

http://amyletinsky.files.wo...

[coolbeans]

"Almost like you want my comment to be removed for 'personal attack' or 'offensive' because you disagree with what it represents. Now that you've let it be known that you're in fact Christian just makes it all the more fishy."

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-l...

And.....just like that you decide to take the witch hunt route. I've never advocated or hinted at the idea of the comment being removed, just changed from being a "trap" into something more intelligent that you're capable of posting. You don't create discourse from a sarky comment that's predated by a comment equivalent to someone putting their hands up to their ears.

In my opinion, replies in these special threads should be aimed to invite, not to lure.

-"Anyway this discussion should have ended after I agreed the first time. . ."

? You only agreed that it was a sarky comment (which anyone could have spotted). My entire point is that your intentions with that reply are as childish as silent's notion to not bother getting into what could have been an enlightening discussion.

[coolbeans]

-"conveniently breezing over the fact that just because you think someones intentions are 'childish' does not make it so."

Just..like claiming your intentions are 'legitmate' doesn't make it so either? This portion leads you nowhere. I've seen the extra depth you've given as to why you decided to make that sarky comment and still vehemently disagree that it should be considered a valid response (in this situation).

-"OK, let's say I WAS acting completely immaturely with no reason other than to offend silent, for what possible reason would I defend my position from his knight in shining armor(you)?"

First, I never stated that the only reason you replied to silent was to solely offend him. As you've stated before, it was essentially intended to trap him back into arguing.

As to what reason would you have for defending your weak position: I've been trying to figure that out in your last three posts tbh.

-"More importantly, why have you taken so much of an interest in trying to prove I was acting "childishly"? Really, what's in it for you? You've wasted all this time, for what?"

I will admit that my reasons aren't entirely unselfish, but my main reason was in striving to show just why the community's general adolescence should not be accepted on heated topics, such as religion. If we decide to take a step back and think about the correct approaches (which everyone is guilty of fumbling of ESPECIALLY ME) to these arguments, that revolution in the psyche of every human being you spoke of can have a chance of progressing.

Whether you care or not, I hope your future posts on these topics (regardless of site) funnel into something more constructive (with less pics). Even when agree/disagree or "Like" counters aren't going your way, you could still hold firm in knowing what whatever future posts you have "written in ink" was worth mentioning.

That ended with a lot of cheese, but I honestly think that general idea to you and all other posters was worth the time. Besides..........I type fast :P.

[JellyJelly]

This calls for a classic: http://www.google.se/url?so... http://www.justsaypictures....

[Tommykrem]

@Chaostar, Coolbeans
I have never seen a longer discussion about such a petty issue!
...And I've been on the Internet!

I think both of you are keeping it rather civil. Don't really see the problem.

[GameGuy]

I noticed that in online communites the envirionment tends to be very unreligious but after reading this article I came to the conclusion that a lot of gamers actually are religous but when it comes to online gaming they don't follow it. The relgion I follow is Christianity but at times when I'm online I forget, nobody is perfect.

[Aclay]

Not all gamers are going to fall within a specific stereotype. Just because a lot of us here are core gamers I don't think someone should automatically assume that most of us are atheists and/or are science nerds because I'm neither.

I don't consider myself to be that much of a nerd to be honest. I know I have a little bit of nerdiness in me, but just not anywhere close to a being a stereotypical "gaming nerd".

As far as religion: Am I 'religious'?(Praying a few times a week or before going to bed, Going to Church every Sunday, etc...) No. Do I believe in a 'Higher Power'? Yes. I'm from North Carolina, grew up going to church quite often and you'd be hard pressed to find many people who are Atheists in this region of the United States that grew up here, regardless if they are hardcore gamers or not.

Even though it's a little hypocritical, I believe in Evolution...but only when it comes to anything but Human Beings, like Animals and how they evolved over time. As far as us as Human Beings, I believe in Creationism.

I don't intend to get into some debate about religion and science from this blog either. I just found it interesting that someone would post a blog about this particular subject and I just couldn't help but leave a comment.

[Fez]

I'm trying really hard not to comment cos this is a gaming website but humans are animals. You must know this? We're mammals.

[jessupj]

But we're the only things on this planet that can be good or evil.

Moral consciousness is what separates us from the animals.

[Imalwaysright]

Tell that to the HUMAN babies that are born with tails. We are animals that evolved not only physically but mentally too. Were not machines and we abide to the laws of nature just like any other animal. Humans think that theyre special. We're not. The Universe is infinite and we're nothing more than a sand grain in it.

[Ricdog]

Indeed as a theist (somewhat catholic) I always thought of the gaming community (and the internet in general) as anti-religious and atheistic. Although this is not representative of my actual life. Since a lot of gamers I know for real are indeed religious, well maybe not church goers but simply believers.

I would however agree that typically if someone is into technology a lot then they might be into science as well. And being scientifically minded might lower the chances of being religious according to studies.

Religion in the gaming community is not too common, but the times it has interacted i've seen it being more sided to the atheistic ways. Assassin's Creed and EA's fake protests for Dante's Inferno come to mind.

[Games4M - Rob]

Religon as a personal belief is fine. Personally i think its a load of bollocks but it dosnt bother me what people believe in private.

Religon as an institution that gets involved in government policy, censorship, and education is wrong.

As for religon being intergrated into video games culture then its kind of absurd to link the two, you might as well ask what political views gamers have or what blood type they have - The answer will always be a total mish mash.

One thing i will say though is that most fanboyish rants tend to have the same kind of fanatical twang to them as religous comments in that people will defend "Their console" with tooth and claw and take genuine offence if you disagree.

[360ICE]

0_0 wasn't even sure if this was going to be approved, but waddaya know. I'm gonna try and keep my tradition of replying to everybody. But since I only have two bubbles that'll be tough.

@Chaostar
Don't know if I agree with Mr. Krishnamurti. I don't think equality is that much of a valor, even if it limits violence. Also, I think knowledge is best shaped through conflicting opinions and debate. No other process I've seen so far that has worked. But maybing I'm missing the point!

@TopDudeMan
Agree with that! Had a similar experience with religion myself. Also agree with GameGuy response.

@FatOldMan
Well, there are gamers, and there are gamers who are on N4G. It takes a certain investment of interest to be here, I believe. I just had the impression from forums that discussing physics was never very far away from the gaming world.

Regarding the 'crazy' thing, you're saying pretty much what I said in my reply in the article. So I agree :)

@goldwyncq
...I didn't really go as far as stating that gamers are science nerds. I just was of the impression that gaming nerds are to some extent also science nerds.

I certainly didn't mean to say that science and religion were incompatible. Hey, Jon Huntsman is a mormon technocrat. What more evidence do you need for science and religion living in harmony? ...Even though I think that particular case might have some cognitive dissonance involved.

@SilentNegotiator
Same thing here. I don't think science and religion are incompatible per se, I just think they are far too rare to see together. The vatican employs astronomers. What more evidence do you need of religion and science living in harmony?

@GameGuy
No, I think that it's fair to say that certain environments may be more prone to certain belief systems. Which was my though, that gamers weren't really too interested in religion or atheist. (not always, naturally)

@Megaton, Prodigy
Well, deism, as Hawking has at times thought of as a possibility to the universe's origin, has little to do with creationism. Creationism as an explanation for biological diversity demands a lot of faith. I'm sorry to say it, Prodigy, but Megaton is right. Evolution is very heavily backed up. Fossil records, isolated tests, simulations and the fact that evolution is evident in nature makes it more valid for science classes than creationism is.

@raytraceme
God didn't come from nothing, that's the point. He's outside the space-time continuum and doesn't need a beginning. Hawking is not a deist per se, but it is an idea worth taking into consideratio I think.

@Chaostar
Yeah, sucks to be right all the time :/

@GameGuy
Yeah, I'm thinking sort of the same thing

@Aclay
Any unfounded assumptions I may have, I keep to myself. Any unfounded assumptions I had, I like to call out ;)

@Fez
Haha, yeah. But it's all about human exceptionalism and so forth.

@Games4M - Rob
Yeah, I've always really liked the console war for that reason. Here, we are, getting angry, being passionate, saying stupid things, but doing no physical harm to anyone and not trying to influence politics in any serious sense. Angry and dumb, but tolerant. If that's not a celebration of human nature I don't know what is. ...

...And this comment is longer than the actual blog.
Oh, and thanks for reading everybody! And for feedback! It really ended up being more of a "dumb guy question" than an actual blog, this, but I think the results are intersting.

[TheFirstClassic]

I just typed out four big ass paragraphs right here, then my stupid computer restarted itself for some reason. Piece of crap, well, now I'm pretty pissed. So I'm just going to leave out most of what I typed and just say a few things.

One is that anyone who insults another person based on religious or political belief is an idiot and a bigot. It's obvious as to why they are a bigot, but they are also an idiot because they are using a horrible method to convince somebody they are wrong. The best way to convince someone they are wrong is to guide them to the conclusion, not to insult their intelligence and dignity. In fact, it drives them back into their beliefs and they become more defensive. But usually when people behave this way, they are doing it to boost their own ego, not to help another develop their beliefs and philosophies on life. They want to feel right, and to feel like they are better than others who are too stupid to share their beliefs.

From another angle, some people are too sensitive about their beliefs. I have no problem with debating with people, as long as it is done in a sensible manner. I understand why some people get defensive, but if there is truth to be found we won't get anywhere looking for it if we keep being so emotional about it.

That said, kudos to everyone commenting here. It's nice, suprising really, to see everyone keeping pretty calm. I was nervous to even look here, thought I would find a lot of ugly comments, but I didn't.

Edit: Well, I will state just one personal belief. I believe in a God because I can't see any better explanation. All things material come from other material correct? All physical things came from physical things before them and so on and so forth until what? Look at the big bang theory. In the beggining, there was one particle which expanded into the universe, but where did that particle come from? Something cannot come from nothing, so there had to be something outside of the material world right? Maybe the creation of the universe didn't involve any deity, maybe it is just beyond our comprehension, but then it would make more sense to be agnostic than atheist to me.

@Chaostar, there is obviously no getting rid of different religions and political beliefs, but we need to change up our ways of thinking, that's for sure. I always laugh when I hear two people talking about their beliefs with each other, because it's a carbon copy conversation of two other people with different beliefs. How smart they are and how dumb everyone else is. Things need to change. But I doubt they will. Humanity always has been, and always will be, horribly flawed.

Also, I don't get how some Christians are against evolution. The Catholic Church actually supports it, or is at least ok with it, because the Bible is meant to reveal spiritual truths, not historical ones. It seems kind of hard to deny that the earth wasn't made in six 24 hour days.

[Kinect]

Holy shit , so that was the incomplete post ? thank God ur pc restarted wew

[TheFirstClassic]

@kinect well I originally meant to make it a lot shorter but I guess I ended up retyping most of what I originally typed lol.

[bwazy]

Must.... Not.... Comment..... UGH!

[Tuxedo_Mask]

Everyone is different. You shouldn't go into any place expecting anything of anyone because you just might be wrong. That isn't necessarily a bad thing if you're willing to learn from other people, whether you agree with them or not.

Your beliefs are your own and if they're strong enough they won't be swayed by others, even if you listen and learn about the beliefs of others.

People should respect each others' beliefs and if someone wants to change what they believe they should be allowed to without ridicule.

Of course, if the beliefs of one person call for the destruction of another that is unacceptable, but those kinds of people exist too.

[thorstein]

Great blog post, man. I would like you to understand one thing though: Poe's law states:

"Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of fundamentalism that someone won't mistake for the real thing."

I stopped believing in any gods when I was 8. I still believed in Santa however because there was empirical evidence (at least to an 8 year old.) None for any gods.

[MySwordIsHeavenly]

I am a Christian.
I am a scientist.
I am a gamer.

[jessupj]

Me too, not really a scientist though, but am very interested in it.

I'm just a normal guy that likes games and I respect other peoples views that differ from mine. In fact my best friend is an atheist.

What I really hate is the fanatical Christians that shout from the highest mountain that everyone are sinners, their way is the right way, casting judgement everywhere they go. They make a very bad name for people like me and then no one respect my view.

I actually got into a bad fight with one of those on the street. It was funny to see them shutup very quickly when I pointed out all the flaws in their views and behaviors and when I said I am a christian. Quite satisfying actually.

[TheDivine]

Science proves God in my mind. People state the big bang as proof we were not created but what caused it? How did matter come from nothing and explode into the universe and planets and stars? It acually reinforces the bible. God said it and it was so, from nothing to something. The bible acually describes the universe the way it is. It says God stretched out the heavens like a curtain or blanket which is how scientists understand our universe. The laws of physics and science dont disprove God, he wrote the laws!

How did we come to be? Imo athiests and evolutionists instead of accepting the most obvious answer go to great lengths to find ways to disprove God. The big bang came from nothing and made earth which happened to have primordial ooze which grew cells which grew into a fish that grew legs which turned into an oxygen breathing mammal which grew into a monkey and finnally us. That makes more sense than we were created? Everything made was created. If you find a complex computer would your first thought be how did this eveolve from plastic and metals into a complex computer? I would ask who made this thing.

Why would natural selection give us compassion? Why do people starve to make sure strangers eat? Why do we all have a voice in us telling us what is right and wrong? We have many testimonies of the truth of the gospels. Many eye witnesses that personally saw people raised from the dead, bling given sight, many who saw Jesus after he was ressurected. Some of his followers who saw these things went to their death because they wouldnt say it was lies. Only an honest man would be willing to die over that. Many people there when he died confessed that he was surely the son of God when they saw the events that happened when he died. Theres countless prophecies fufilled and coming true as we speak. Theres enough evidence that any jury would find that the bible is truthful.

Now following God has NOTHING to do with a denomination or sect. It has nothing to do with a church (although worshipping with others is good and a church is Gods place). It has to do with faith and following the commands of God. I personally think the catholic church is misled. I wont go into it too much but they do many things forbidden by God. People need to stop associating christianity with the catholic church and a church. Salvation and prayer is between you and God. Read the bible, follow the commandments, and believe that Jesus was the son of God and died for your sins.

The greatest commandment is to love your God with all your heart and all your soul. The second is love your neighbor as yourself. This is what the bible teaches.

Gaming is just a hobby we all share. We are all diverse and have different beliefs. I wont disrespect yours but i will try to convince you to read the gospel, give it a shot, and find out the truth for yourself. It is indeed a the living word of God and speaks to all of us who open our ears.

[FinaLXiii]

religion doesnt matter people just need to be open minded, have good sense of things and have faith on themselves.

gaming is mostly apreciated because there´s gratious violence in it just like many movies and i am thankfull for that to exist so that i can be entertained by it with no harm being done.

Just to think Romans were religious to the core and killed and tortured inocent people ( even children ) because those people didnt wanted to belive in god.

Its all a matter of good sense of things and no harm having a religion to back it up as long it keeps always with a good sense in mind.

[beerkeg]

When it comes to theories on how our universe came to be, I'd have to side with the scientists. To believe that humans came from Adam and Eve is naive, and I've heard from some religious people that humans have only been around for a few thousand years despite the evidence of bones from our distant ancestors being millions of years old, and bones from our own species being hundreds of thousands of years old.

But it's also the fact that religion makes humans out to be more than we are. The time we've been on this planet is a blink of an eye in the Earths lifetime. We are but one species in the entire universe, a place made up of an unimaginable number of stars and planets. In our galaxy alone there is likely to be many,many habitable planets for life and yet we think we are the sole focus of God?

It's the egotistical nature of most religions that I don't like. It's a case of we are right and you are wrong and if you don't believe in our religion then you will be going to hell.

And yet having said all this I do actually believe in God. It may not be the God in how it is interpreted to me by the various religions, but I do believe in God. It's hard to put my finger on why I believe, but I guess that is what faith is.

I don't have a problem with religion really, I just don't believe in what most religions tell me I should believe in.

As far as gaming communities goes I think your view was pretty short sighted. Gamers are still people, we have gaming as something we all have in common, but apart from gaming we are all completely different. To think that just because someone enjoys games means they are into science and have no belief in religion is absurd.

[360ICE]

@Everyone
See, this was what I wasn't expecting to see. People using the kalam God argument. I mean, you have to admit there are more people watching Dawkins videos on YouTube, than there are reasonablefaith.org fans, and so I thought that would apply to N4G. To some extent I guess that's still right, but there are certainly a good bunch of religious people here. Which is refreshing, really.

However, given the God argument I'd like to say it's not evidence for any theism. It's evidence for deism OR that something can come from nothing, which we've learned can actually happen in quantum physics.

@beerkeg
I feel like I've said it a time or two now, but my opinion is not that you can't have religion and science together. I thought that N4G and other Internet gaming communities were atheist environments. Of course that doesn't mean that there would only be atheists here, but I didn't expect such a strong showing from religious people. If you think it's absurd to think that a certain community can have certain beliefs, then you've set back years of marketing research.

Hope that clears it up, this was my last bubble. Please keep it civil, and please spare us sensitively

@Yes, actually it does. Creationism has to explain why biological diversity is yet so awfully similar DNA wise, and seems to be connected through fossile records.

Also, the greatest commandment is to love your God? I'd rather say love each other, and I don't think it ought to be a commandment either, I think it should be implemented in nature.

I've read the whole Bible actually, as I was raised in a catholic school, and I must say, some of the texts in there. Awful. I think that might have been what turned me away from religion in the first place. Other texts are very nice.

[Ricdog]

Kalam or a cosmological argument? I don't think I've seen anyone here put it exactly the way the Kalam argument states.

And neither is it support of deism, but an argument for theism. There really aren't any arguments for deism, given that its a sub-category of theism, besides the evidential ones of denying a God's interferance in our lives. But that is also close to what atheists say.

And QM does not show something can come from nothing. Only that certain events appear to have an evident cause for their movement. Something coming from nothing is a logical contradiction, and thus is and will be impossible to prove because its false.

[serial00]

Hope this is well be useful .

[Captain Tuttle]

I've seen enough people on N4G who evangelize Sony and the PS3 so, yeah, I'd say that some are religious.

[PirateThom]

Gaming, as a medium, has fans of all different backgrounds, social standings, colours, creeds and, of course, religions. It´s only natural that as gaming becomes more popular, it extends to a greater number of people.

I´m athiest, I wholly reject the idea of a god, but I don´t for a moment think religious people have no interest in games.

I´m sure there´s religious people who are into porn and death metal just as there are athiests who enjoy reading religious texts and listening to music written specifically for a church. It´s just the nature of things, our choice of entertainment can´t be determined on our faith or lack thereof.

[wwqq3d]

Yes, this should be right!