Xbox isn't wrong for charging more, they are wrong for having nothing to charge for

Xbox's planned, then abandoned, price hike for online membership has irritated the internet, but not for the right reasons. No one will ever enjoy a price increase. But the real problem on the part of Microsoft is the consistent lack of worthwhile things on offer in exchange for any quantity of our money, having cannibalized their core brands and refused to invest in ambitious or noteworthy new IPs. Join us at GreenDragonCVR for a discussion of what a healthy relationship of video games and business might look like. Also featuring the fantastic Resident Evil VIII Maiden demo (Resident Evil makes an interesting counterexample to MS franchises: still made by the same people making a very different sort of game, while Halo is made by different people making the same).

[Daddy-Like]

I can agree with this. I love the brand and have invested heavily game-wise. My one annoyance is the lack of first-party games.

They have promised many titles, but it never seems to actually happen.

[TheProblem]

I don’t think anything could justify a 100% price hike

[GamerRN]

Thankfully it was reversed and free to play was taken out of the pay wall

[Godmars290]

@GamerRN:
Only because of backlash. Something they should have known would draw backlash. Something they knew enough to remove the f2p requirement to soften their BS.

[IGiveHugs2NakedWomen]

@TheProblem

Exactly

[gamer7804]

While I disagree with the gold price hike the article is wrong, atleast for gamespass. Day one first party games on gamespass , Minecraft dungeons, hive busters on day one and halo infinite coming this year on the service along with tons of other third party games is def worth charging for.

[Livingthedream]

The gamepass price of admission is fine, but their proposed Gold increase is ridiculous. They're two different things.

[MrNinosan]

When you said Day One first party, you didn’t need to add Minecraft Dungeons and Halo Infinite as they are included in that.

I bought Series X in hope to believe all the hype about Gamepass, but shortly after, I realised I still get more and better for a lower price with PSNow.

Now I’m stuck with Game Pass for 2 years, so I hope the money was worth it when those 2 years have passed.

[gamer7804]

@MrNino How do you get more with psnow? All ps3 games are streamed and there is no day one ps games

[SpineSaw]

@gamer7804
If only those "Day one First Party games" were must have, must play games but there not and I don't see a day when that changes even with Microsoft buying more gaming studios and producing more games. They maybe day one on GP but they will be multi-platform and one day in the $5 bin and maybe at that point be a must have game.

[gamer7804]

@spine that’s your opinion on what is must have though, halo Mac collection and gears 5 with hive busters are fantastic. Minecraft dungeons is also a blast especially if you have kids

[343_Guilty_Spark]

You don't get more with PS Now

[Teflon02]

343

Actually you factually get more with PS Now. Like, literally google the quantity lol

[gamer7804]

@teflon. Oh you are talking number of games so quantity not quality whether visually (streaming only for ps3) or day one first party. Got it.

[gamer7804]

@raul that’s pretty much what I said. They listened to feedback from the hike and realized it was a bad move and rectified that as well as the free to play games aspect. So it’s a win for Xbox gamers.

[CaptainHenry916]

I guess Microsoft ain't making enough from gamepass 😁

[RauLeCreuset]

The "annoyance" and the problem is how they conned so many into believing moves made to further Xbox's financial interests were pro consumer and about giving options, only to try blatantly undermining one of those options to the point that Live Gold only users would effectively be forced into buying a bundled Live Gold and Game Pass service they didn't want.

[Livingthedream]

The increase doesn't make sense at all, I subscribed to game pass and have about about 2 1/2 years left because I converted a whole lot of gold into gp ultimate. I'm thinking a lot of people did something like this. Got three years of GP for about 100

[gamer7804]

It’s good they listened though rather than just sticking with a price hike whether it’s for a subscription or new games no?

[RauLeCreuset]

@Livingthedream

It makes sense if you consider the blatant money grab would have affected a smaller community of gamers if what you said is correct. The potential for success increases when the number of people impacted is reduced. It's not so much about getting people to pay more for Gold as it is pressuring them to join those of you paying for GPU.

@gamer7804

No. You say "they listened," and that's the spin they're putting on it. It would be more accurate to say "they tried it." It doesn't take listening to know that a 100% price gouge and locking F2P behind a paywall are taking advantage of consumers. The only thing they listened to was the level of backlash to determine whether it was safe to proceed or if they should bide their time while playing the F2P card to regain the pro consumer narrative by not doing something they obviously shouldn't have done or considered doing and finally doing something they should have done 15 years ago.

[piroh]

Sad but true, my X1S is full of dust i should clear it off once in a while. The last time i played it was when Forza Horizon 4 launched, btw great game. Since then no reason to turn it on

[rlow1]

I agree their hasn't been alot to get excited for. But they have invested heavily in studios. So I expect them to reveal new ips in the future.

[GreenDragonCVR]

Hope so too! We are looking forward to Avowed. Even the Medium looks interesting. Its cool what they did with Gears Tactics too. These all just feel like sidenotes to the main MS show (of cloned games and sub offerings).

[Pricey]

Just wait for e3

[SullysCigar]

And for the IPs they've bought to release on all platforms to recoup acquisition costs...lol

[rlow1]

@sullycigar, trolling along I can see, definitely not surprise to see you putting a positive twist on things. I can agree they will bring most games to their ecosystem, but I'm not sure what you mean by all platforms. If your talking the Playstation Eco system, its a far flung possibility. To imply that they are so desperate for cash they would do anything.....keep smoking.

[RauLeCreuset]

Right? Such balderdash. Xbox doesn't want money. Sully's talking like we're only having this conversation because Xbox just tried pulling a fast one to force Live Gold subscribers to either pay at least twice the cost of the 12-month subscription or shell out even more for the better valued GPU. The idea that Xbox might seek to recoup the costs of acquiring 3rd party IPs that were previously reliant on PS sales by continuing to sell them on PS is so far fetched as to be unworthy of consideration.

[Silly gameAr]

Probably IP's that were already in the making before MS bought the studios.

[RazzerRedux]

It was wrong per se, but it wasn't smart.

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

The backlash might have curbed this, but I'd be fearful of GamePass now that we know MS is capable of hiking the price of subscription services willy-nilly.

[RauLeCreuset]

Some of us already knew that, but you can't tell some people, and still won't be able to tell them even after MS tipped their hand.

[Unknown_Gamer5794]

I'm getting flashbacks of 2013's DRM fiasco. They retracted that after backlash too, but in both cases, I don't get the sense that they did it out of any sense of guilt or wanting to deliver the best, most consumer-friendly product possible. I always get a "sorry you didn't like our idea, sns" vibe. It's pretty obvious they only react to backlash because it would be far more costly for them not to. So, good on the consumer. Clearly, if we want a better Xbox we need to continue to make them fear the consequences of not doing better by us.

[kneon]

I don't know that they will ever get it. The price hike wasn't something somebody thought up the day before, it was weeks or months in planning and there were likely dozens of people involved, probably more. And all that time, with all those people, nobody had the sense to say that it was a stupid idea that would only backfire? Certainly, someone knew it would be bad but didn't feel they could do anything about it. That points to a problem with the corporate culture.

[kayoss]

@kneon,
have you been in a meeting with a bunch of stakeholders and upper managements? A lot of the times, these upper management and stakeholders sits in the office and talk PR to their sponsors and their potential investors. They dont know whats going on in the lower levels. So when you go to a meeting with these bunch "KIA (know it all)". There is nothing that can persuade them to change their minds. Because when their decisions backfires, its the lower level people who are used as a scapegoat.
For example, im an engineer and i automate manual processes. When i go into a meeting with these clowns, its like talking to a child who's just wouldnt take no for an answer. I will present to them data, examples, models, etc to proven to them that what they wanted cant be done. they will literally ignore an hour of facts and say, "just make it the way we want it." So i have a habit of recording and noting all my meetings so that when it backfires, i cant be blamed for their stupidity.

[Knightofelemia]

Series X is still going to be my second choice no first party titles to make me say ok I need a Series X over a PS5. I don't want Gamepass crammed down my throat when I try and renew my Gold. Things might change once they gain control over Zenimax later this year as it stands PS5 is my first choice.

[Destiny1080]

phil could have upped it by 20 bucks and xbox gamers would have told us that it was getting better for the last few months and is well worth it, they would have felt nice and cozy inside knowing that xbox live was getting so much better and more premium

you blew it phil

[Kilua]

I think it's a fair point, but i don't completely agree. This wasnt a price increase, it was a price explosion - even adding some content wouldn't have justified it.

[IRetrouk]

Both are wrong, one was, one still is.

[blacktiger]

I prefer stadia if you can resell purchase game to anyone,

[Godmars290]

They just weren't planning on charging more, they were going to be charging twice. That's a one hundred percent price increase *WHILE* requiring a paid sub for f2p games.

The only good thing that's come of this is making f2p actually free to play on Xbox after nearly three console generations.

[SullysCigar]

Imagine how much money they've scammed out of idiots by charging them just to play Fortnite, which is free everywhere else.

It's just scummy.

[gamer7804]

I’m not sure you grasp what the word scam means...

[Father__Merrin]

The brand is devalued now as ppl believe you can buy all games on PC. No one likes a price hike but what they tried was anti consumer they will loose customers over time Spencer needs out ASAP he's done nothing

[RauLeCreuset]

The brand was devalued when they tried their power play with the launch of the Xbox One. Say what you want about Phil, but he knows how to keep what's left of the Xbox base on the hook. Those core diehards he can get to go along with just about any position Xbox adopts.

Xbox lost the console war. Their new business strategy is console agnostic. The Gold Live price gouge would have only affected their console gamers. I suspect they had the "free to play" card ready to play in anticipation of the backlash they received, knowing from everything else their console base has allowed them to get away with that they could regain their pro consumer reputation by pretending to listen and eliminating the F2P paywall as a mea culpa.

[SDuck]

Anyone remembers Scalebound? I feel like Xbox could've had something good with that one and decided to cancel it

[Godmars290]

By some counts that was MS effort to cripple finically Platinum Games in order to buy them. That they deliberately introduced production issues, were willing to sacrifice the game, so that they could take over the studio. Effectively ruin the dev team, create bad blood within the studio, in order to get ahold its already existing IPs.

If that's true then it explains a lot.

[Sitdown]

And still, someone from Platinum Games is on record saying they would be open to resuming development. Either all you just said is a ridiculous story, or those individuals didn't learn from the last time. I know which one I believe.

[Godmars290]

@Sitdown:
Would think the example of Rare shows that MS is more interested in acquiring than knowing what to do with them.

[Sitdown]

Do you know the story behind the cancelling? Or say least the prevailing story?

[Godmars290]

Pretty sure I provided the "prevailing story": MS actively sabotaged production as part of a takeover bid. Other than that what was being shown was not actual game play.

[Chocoburger]

I bought an E3 Scalebound T-shirt off ebay last year. I love Platinum Games, and refuse to forget about it.

Just one of many legitimate reasons why Xbox has been a sinking ship since 2013.

[SullysCigar]

I think they're wrong on both counts.

They need to BLOW US AWAY with value in order to gain trust and that's gonna take LOTS of time, given their track record. They really have zero clue.

[boing1]

It's so obvious they did it on purpose to gain in the eyes of gamers. 'We are listening to you. Here, have a cookie.'

[potatoseal]

That's BS. Occam's Razor suggests they messed up.

Listen. Why did they remove the ability to buy a 12 month sub in July last year? It was in prep for this.

Why did they bury the fact that 6-months would be $60 and put it at the very end of the article. While have the cheap $1 and $5 increase at the very start of the article?

They also pointed out that people who were already subbed would have no increase. Yes, at the start of the article. Making it seem like 'no big deal' to all their loyal and hardcore fans.

There is no way they planned this, in the way you're suggesting. Even now, people are still pissed that they even tried. There is a large percentage of fans that now have a bad taste in their mouths over this. That is not going to go away any time soon.

The last time MS did a massive 180 like this was at E3 for the Xbox One launch. They also said they were listening to the gamers etc etc. Did they do that on purpose too? Was it all planned? NO. It wasn't. It hurt them. Just like this, albeit somewhat smaller mistake. This has hurt them. The only plan that was in place was to increase the price and take minimal damage. It back-fired. They were getting too much blow-back. They did the 180.

[boing1]

Well, if it wasn't planned, then I would love to meet the person who genuinly thought 'Let's double the entry price, people will love it!'.

[Flawlessmic]

Meh, just buy a ps5 and switch and your set for your gaming needs for atleast the next 2- 3 years.

Buy a xsx in 2-3 years time when its cheaper and all the newly aquired studios actually have released games, the games ms announced are not coming out anytime soon guys. Late 2022 at the earliest is my best bet before we see some decent exclusive output from MS, and even then the jury will be out quality wise as these exclusives will have a lot to live up to too considering sonys offering and the fact xbox owners have had close to jack shit to play for a few years now and still have a few years to wait.

[oakshin]

I don't like raising the price if they don't have too and they obviously didn't are they wouldn't have back tracked in a matter of hours it's great they aren't doing it and free to play on xbox will finally be free but microsoft sucks

[Nuclearmoon]

With their planned price increase xbl gold would have been more expensive than game pass ultimate which includes xbl gold. They are trying to boost ultimate subs by reducing the price gap between the 2 services. They still are trying to push digital only.

[Minute Man 721]

Behind closed doors everyone is behind digital only. Sadly the younger gen will embrace it

[Einhander1971]

I have the XB SS playing gears 5 and hivebusters at the moment. But nothing else that interests me really. Really like the Xbox brand but for gods sake let's have some quality new ips like gears. Luckily I have a ps5 as well, plenty to look forward to.

[Minute Man 721]

Why they tried.....Netflix, HBOmax, NBA League Pass all over $100 for yearly subs. But just to play online should still be $60. X1 reveal and gamers voted with their wallets. This market "We" have the power to dictate

[Shikoku]

Statement like the title of this article are the reason MS now wants 60$ for 6 months of live now when it used to be 60$ for 12 months. Like when will the cost become too much for you people start saying or realizing you're getting screwed ?

[Applejack]

I get what you’re saying but they already backtracked the price to the standard $60 a year.

[moriarty1889]

Agree as well. Nothing new but old bc games and third party. MS spent all that money over the last few years and still have yet to deliver anything. It’s like they don’t want to create anything new just keep sequels coming to the same main franchises. Hard to justify paying more for less.

[waverider]

They need to make more money. That simple. And a lot more. The Gaming division isnt reaching what they need. Its easy to see that nothing change in the marketshare. Microsoft isnt growing. Their strategy failed, the cheaper and most powerfull. Week after week is selling much less then the competition. Things arent a lot worse in terms of numbers because of pandemic.

[fonduktoe]

It'd be nice if they could finally offer something besides progressively worse Halo and Gears retreads this generation. Not looking good so far. Don't understand honestly why anyone would choose Xbox over Playstation but to each his own I guess.

[CrimsonWing69]

But doubling the price!? Has any service doubled its price before? Also, why during the pandemic would you decide to do this?

[DaveZero]

This price hike isnt even happening anymore and to add to that all games for gold free titles will be able to be played without gold itself.

[DaveZero]

The Article couldn't be more wrong.

Simply put, if you pay for something and get use out of it, it is worth the price.
The person who wrote this must be a fan of the other side, it's the only time these articles ever pop up on N4G. God knows why a Sony fan would write such an article when they have no invested interest in xbox and to put it another way, why on earth are they always so concerned over what everyone else wants to do on xbox rather than pay attention into there own stuff.

[GreenDragonCVR]

not an article, but a podcast! nice job paying attention! we are not fans of any corporation. We just like good video games.

[Thundercat77]

The thing is that this was a calculated and well though strategy that was approved by many included Phil Spencer. They though they could go with it clearly. Giving the fragile state and last place of Xbox in the market and the huge success of the PS5 over Xbox series x, they can't afford to have a mass backslash like they did so they practically had to reverse their plans ASAP.

[Bender6502]

All completely moot really since price hasn't been doubled and, in fact, new feature has been added whereby - F2P is just that. And without the need for gold -better late than never I guess.

Still, price hike announcement panicked me into buying two years of gold for £98.00 on Amazon, which I then added to my existing gold. Fortunately though, I was then able to immediately convert that Gold balance to ultimate Game pass @ 1:1 monthly ratio. Result? I now have Ultimate until start of 2024 for about £120.00 - just about the proposed increase of the gold yearly subscription! So, ironically, and despite my initial annoyance at MS for being totally dumb, the process may just have worked out in my favour, even more so because Gold has been returned to it's original price anyway.

TBH though, I wasn't before, and I'm still not, the biggest fan of subscription services, Gamepass or any other. However, I am very picky about what games I buy. At least now I can try all these supposed AAA & AAAA before I shell out cash.

[RauLeCreuset]

No offense, but it sounds like they got you.

You were initially annoyed, but now you're over it because they didn't go through with it after massive backlash. And hey, look, they did this thing with F2P that they should have done over a decade ago and could have done at any time independent of saving it to use as damage control. You're admittedly not the biggest fan of subs, but the panic they created caused you to rush to reup Gold for 2 years at the current price, which you immediately converted to GPU, so now you have GPU until 2024.

Wasn't pushing people over to Ultimate the point?

[Chocoburger]

Spot on accurate. Some people here are so delusional that they don't even comprehend their own thought process. 😬

[Bender6502]

Yep! Absolutely it was, and it worked in my case. All I'm saying is that I have to buy gold anyway because I need to have on line option, don't want to pay, but have to -currently
at least. Which may I say, is also the case on the competition so some of you guys blasting MS for that need to look closer to home maybe?
My point? Well, given it appeared there was going to be a price hike my first instinct was to get Gold as cheap as, for as long as, before price of cards went up. Now doesn't that sound sensible given the above scenario?
Now, I've been honest with you, I'm not a fan of such services especially when it's free on PC.
Given the potential situation though, I did what I considered to be the smart thing to ensure I had Live going forward- at the current price.
The game pass thing is just extremely fortuitous, because had the price of Gold remained doubled, the conversion rate for Ultimate would not have remained 1:1, I can assure you of that.
No disrespect, but many of you guys are blasting MS because, well, it's MS. Yes, that messed up, but at least they reversed their decision. I can think of at least one company that is messing up far worse recently and not listening, but hey, you ain't gonna hear that one, are you? Stones and glass houses ring any bells? Enjoy your gaming guys.

[RauLeCreuset]

That's a whole lot of deflection, conjecture, and whataboutism for something you acknowledge to absolutely be the case.

[BlaqMagiq1]

Both things are wrong and only idiots would defend this.

[Germaximus]

This such a sad and pathetic way to defend a terrible company.

[spwittbold]

Imagine being the guy who says "stfu" every 10 seconds in this Podcast. Someone 10 mad.

[zarbor]

How many ways does it have to be said and constantly proven that MS XBOX team need smarter people in their building. They just don't get it on a number of things. Why would anyone think they can raise the price without giving value or at least perceived value to the customer? Its like they don't believe consumers have options and they have no competitors. These folks are delusional or they are desperate since the math must not be adding up for GamePass.

No real first party exclusives yet. No advantage over its direct competitor. But somehow they expected gamers to pony up, no questions asked. The least they could have done was waited until they have must have exclusives. Just geniuses.

[Chocoburger]

I said yesterday on N4G that the entire marketing team needs to be fired.

Since 2013 its felt like the marketing team is purposefully tanking their own company.

[Hugodastrevas]

*is

[Sophisticated_Chap]

Xbox is wrong for charging more. In fact, their online service should be free to use, just as Steam & Origin are free and just as it was free on PS3. They can make money on voluntary Game Pass subscriptions, as well as games, DLC and perhaps home screen themes and such. Back in 2001, when the internet was in it's infancy, it was understandable to charge for an online service, but today, the internet is a fact of life, so it makes no sense to wall off this service. At least it's free on PC, and the reason its free, is because they know the service would never survive otherwise. it would be nice if console player showed a little intelligence, and start to push back on this policy, by not renewing their online subscriptions.

[Ristul]

Even when you're right, you're wrong 😂

Its a pity team Xbox made paying for online the norm, trust in Microsoft to find new ways to nickle and dime their loyal costumers.

[Bender6502]

Agree with your comments, but the reality is different isn't it? I don't know your platform of choice, or maybe you're multi plat like me. But whatever, if you game on console it's extremely likely you have a subscription. Interesting that you mention PS3 though. How did that work?
Enjoy your gaming.

[FlavorLav01]

Amen. Been awhile since Xbox has had anything to be truly jealous of for non-Xbox owners. A non-evolving Gears and Halo aren’t holding up the brand like they used to, and we still don’t have concrete dates for ANY AAA titles in the pipeline. Gotta bring SOMETHING to the table 1st before you go price hiking on folks. Amateur/greedy move IMO.

[blacktiger]

That's what you get for liking cloud instead fighting the right to sell digital games

[343_Guilty_Spark]

Gold yea.

GamePass they have plenty.

[QuePasa87]

They're wrong for both

[RoseSapphire]

They're actually wrong for having had a price in the first place which caused Sony and Nintendo to follow suit.

You're paying for the ability to connect to the internet you already pay a service for. Any servers they provide, be it for their store or general use, or within the games itself should be subsidized by those same features. You buy a game, that purchase helps pay for dedicated servers. They want to sell more games, they invest in quality servers for their stores. It's pretty simple.

This isn't the same as paying for a membership to Costco or Sam's Club.

[vw1303]

Agree. Already for a decade.

[DFresh]

B.S.
If I’m paying for the internet I shouldn’t have to pay to play online.
Though if I’m forced to pay to play I like the model PS Plus is doing.
Offering free games every month.
Selection is good.
Only really play two online games anyway which is Overwatch and Ghost of Tsushima Co Op.
I’m still upset that the Uncharted Nathan Drake Collection didn’t come with MP/Co Op.
(Uncharted 2 was the best. Uncharted 3 was good. Uncharted 4 MP/Co Op is trash.)

[Jaces]

No, they're wrong period. If Sony did this I'd cancel right away. PC gaming for online only from then on.

[UltimateRacer]

It’s only because Microsoft know that they can’t sustain Gamepass at its low price so even with them backtracking on the price hike they’ll find another way to rip of its consumers perhaps even hiking up the price of gamepass itself on all platforms.

[Dwarrior]

Not enough F-bombs.

Christ, are these guys tweens?

[GreenDragonCVR]

Only in f**kin spirit

[Tyrant 8 RDFL]

Suggestion remove the price for XBOX live. The $60 a year we were putting towards live we would then most likely put towards game pass. I would rather pay the price of 2 games for a year of a gaming service where I can play a bunch of titles. Just wont if im paying for 2 services

[gold_drake]

im not sure if a 100% price hike can justify anything really. and i dont think even hardcore fans want that to happen.

[FanboysKiller]

Maybe they just , at the moment , can't comprehend their vision for the future like e.g. one of the DRM benefits , the
family share of owned digital and physical contents.

[DJStotty]

Looks like a quick U-turn, what better way of advertising xbox live gold than announce a "price hike" just to denounce a day later.

I would not be surprised if they announced it just to get everyone talking about it, it has definitely had the desired effect lol.

[XBManiac]

Maybe in two years Xbox Game Pass will have one big title every month, in the same way as Netflix, Disney+, HBO+, etc. But... yes, now it is expensive for what it offers when you compare real prices of games on its cathalogue, second hand and friend's games. Worse if you compare prices with Steam, Epic Store free games, GoG and other shops.

[LucidIllusion]

Pathetic really