Burnout Team Talks Multiplatform Development

The burnout paradice devs talk about Multiplatform Development, the differences between ps3 and xbox360 Development and Internet fanboys on the crash FM podcast

[Daz]

From the developers them selfs. If you dont like what they say get off this site lol.

[Meus Renaissance]

I always assumed the 360 had a more powerful video card. You learn something new everyday! I'm saving this MP3 file for reference in the future in debates.

[The Killer]

what u said is the ps3 processors r powerful and limited ?
how will a normal processor be more flexible more than cell? and in wat way is the cell limited? what i read is cell is very powerful at distrubution parallel calculations so how is that restricted? and what does 360 processors can do that the cells in ps3 cant do?
about the graphic card i know the 360 has more RAM but everything else its not more powerful than RSX, plus we all know also the Dev pointed out that RSX can use a lot of help from the Cells and since the what they can do with the cell at this point is so little i can see the graphics of ps3 games will get improved till at least 3 years from now!!

@drewdrakes

would u be so kind and explain to me what is the general purposes of the CPU's other than calculating as fast as possible and as much as possible?

[drewdrakes]

Cell is a math beast but cant do much general purpose. The Xenos IS more powerful then RSX. Just looking at shaders the RSX has 24 parallel pixel pipelines and 8 vertex. The Xenos has 48 general purpose (can do both vertex and pixel).

Edit to above: Well you pretty much summed it up. But unfortunately the Cell can only do that with math.

I was looking into using the PS3 as a server, but it just doesnt have enough RAM. You are only allowed to access 256MB, the other 256 is video RAM. Plus anything you have in RAM has to be passed to the local store (256KB per SPE, and each SPE CANNOT read other SPE's local store) of the SPE that is going to do the processing, they dont have access to the main RAM, although this is rather easy to get around. All you have to do is set up a data struct on the sending and receiving ends and all will be well, but that still sucks to have to do.

[Zuhk]

I am currently at work and cant listen to it. However i'm sure it has something to do with how powerful the 360 is compared to the PS3.

[Meus Renaissance]

The PS3's processors are more powerful than the 360's yet are more bottlenecked with sophistication so it limits what they can do with it. The 360's processors however are more flexible and so they can be as creative as they like with it, and so the end products between the two are comparable.

The Xbox 360's video card is not more powerful. It's a myth. But, again, due to complications they're restricted with the PS3's one. However, because it has those powerful processors, they can use some of the SPU's to help with the graphical output, so once again, the end product is comparable.

Basically, the PS3 is technically more favourable but because of the sophistication of the architecture, that isn't open to them whereas with the 360, it is, they can mould their designs how they like. So in this case, muscle doesn't mean strength.

So they speak of the positives and negatives of each console, which when compared, don't show any clear winner. But I suppose the negatives of the PS3 aren't really concrete as that can change in a few years. However, when testing Burnout on both platforms, they realised there "is so much power to be untapped by both" that you won't see either peaking any time soon.

[ThaGeNeCySt]

good summary Meus.

[Daz]

Why as he got disagrees he ask for help. i know his a fanboy, but thats not a fanboy commet, so there not need to press disagree.
some people these days.

[tethered]

@ Daz

Quoting Zuhk:
3 - Can someone give a summary as to what is said?
I am currently at work and cant listen to it. However i'm sure it has something to do with how powerful the 360 is compared to the PS3.

Its because of that last part. You see the fanboy remark?

[Daz]

so if he said how powerful the ps3 is compared to the 360 it be ok with you. To me thats not a fanboy comment.

You didnt understand it did you and you took it the fanboy way.

SO each time someone says compare to something there a fanboy ok, thats what your telling me it looks like.

[poos3]

dont worry crition is garbage dev and they said the 360 is more powerfull

[MaximusPrime]

lol at Zuhk (formally known as Zhuk)'s moronic comment.

PS3 is more powerful than xbox. Burnout Paradise is another example why PS3 is powerful.

Thanks for the summary, Meus.

[tethered]

@ Daz

Its a fanboy comment because he sates his opinion as a fact without even listening to the PodCast.

He just assumes he is right.

[heyheyhey]

@poos3

im not sure who is more retarded- you or mesh1

anyway criterion made the burnout series (obviously) and black which are both stunning games (they made others i think) and is it just me or were they the ones who created the legendary renderware engine? im not too sure....

anyway they did not say the 360 is more powerful- they said its easier to use, but that will change with time as devs get to know the ps3 architecture better and sony provide them with good kits to unlock CELL power

anyway im glad a dev finally sorted out that "inferior GPU" myth- the RSX was made especially for the ps3 by nvidia and it is great

[IamTheStorm81]

Setting aside the technical side of things, as an owner of both, I can honestly say I've been far more impressed with the PS3's offerings then the 360's offerings.

Games like Uncharted, Ratchet and Clank, Heavenly Sword and Lair, look better in my opinion then do the 360's big titles like Gears of War, Halo 3 and BioShock. Mind you this is also in one years less time.

Looking towards the future, Killzone 2, MGS4, Final Fantasy XIII and Resistance 2 are blowing me away, but I don't see much coming for the 360 that competes on a graphical level.

I'm not going to pretend that I know the technical side, but when I look at what games I'm playing and how they look and how they sound, there is, to me, a noticeable difference between the two systems' offerings. The latest games on the PS3 look fantastic, and the games soon to be released look unbelievable.

As a gamer and not a game developer, it's beyond me to argue what system is better. I would be lying if I tried to make that argument on the technical side. That being said, the PS3's games, in less time, have impressed me more then the 360's games in more time. Looking towards the future, this trend seems to continue, and the gap between them seems to be growing.

Your preference to the art style plays a big role in what you think looks better, but for my eyes the PS3 has the best looking games yet, namely Uncharted. Both systems have some great looking games, but Uncharted eclipses them all, in my opinion.

[hazbaz]

*claps* Bravo.

[TheExecutive]

I think you need an 8th bubble

[Daz]

Nice opinion but my opinion is that i think not all ps3 game you list look better.
But i buy the games because i like them not because they look better then the other platform.

Someone dont like my opinion what happened to free speach.

[ohhthegore]

exactly

[titntin]

Absolutely, I also have both machines and generally prefer the PS3 stuff too.
I am a game developer (though I'm a technical artist rather than programmer), but I am well aware of the bennifits of parralel programming. Right now, the technicalities of the two machines show that they are pretty balanced. However, over the next few years - there's more potential muscle to be unlocked with the PS3.

I'm excited by the prospects for both.

[tethered]

They say what I have been saying for a while now.
Get both.

If you can't afford both, start saving a little here and a little there and over time you will be able to buy both. You owe it to yourself.

[kingnick]

Basically they said go with the console that has the games you prefer and to a lesser extent the controller you prefer. They said the consoles are close enough technically that it shouldn't be a deciding factor unless you really want Blu-ray.

[Salvadore]

I wish more developers would start doing podcasts.

[ichimaru]

great summary. and i do think both of the consoles are far from reaching their peaks.

[mistertwoturbo]

The most unbiased podcast ever released.

Shows that the 360 still has some potential left over. While also proves that PS3 games can be on-par with 360 games given the right circumstances.

[CrazzyMan]

PS3 CPU Cell is MUCH MORE powerful, then x360 CPU.
Video card is almost on pair with x360 video card, well in reality, RSX do better in shader operations:
68 billion shader operations per second theoretical maximum ( ((5 ALU x 24 pixel pipelines) + (2 ALU x 8 vetrex pipelines)) x 500 MHz ) for RSX
vs
48 billion shader operations per second theoretical maximum (2 ALU x 48 shader pipelines x 500 MHz) for Xenos

And now, the most important part.
PS2 had only 4mb vram. That means, PS2 games looks amazing thnx to CPU.
So, expect to see MUCH MORE amazing games on PS3 in near future.
Well,. Rathcet, Uncharted, GT5P already look amazing.
PS3 FTW! =)

[kingnick]

The 360's unified shaders are far more efficient to utilise so there's little if any difference in realworld software.

[CrazzyMan]

yeah, BUT it depend on who is making games.

Just look at SQUARE they UTILISE FULL console POWER, no matter what this console is.
PS2, or DS, or PSP, or PS3 - they always showing AMAZING results.

for multiplatform games is more important the easiest way to get performance, BUT when you create EXCLUSIVE games, you have time to explore the architecture and use IT FULL POWER.
That`s why PS3 exclusives will be always better then x360, because ps3 has MUCH MORE potential to use in RIGHT hands.

If you disagree, show me better graphics in x360 then in FFXIII in RPG genre. Graphics which look like CGI. =)

[kingnick]

That's may be because a lot of what has been shown of FFXIII is CGI, SE love to misguide consumers by making the bulk of their trailers/promos CGI.

Mass Effect is currently the best existing RPG graphically.

[2 cents]

I own both consoles as well, and i also think that ps3 seem more next gen than the 360. There`s something about the games, it`s hard to put my finger on it but it just has more next gen feel to them. I only own 4 games for the ps3 thou, against 24 for the x360, mainly due to recent aquisition of the ps3. The x360 has let me down many times in 2 years whille the ps3 keeps impressing me with every day. It`s my honest oppinion.
Planning to get a wii in the future to get my gf into gaming. Hope it`ll work, fingers crossed.

[4cough]

That whole podcast seemed like they were trying to justify the ps3 "ROFMSL"

Ohhhhhhhh the RSX is just as powerful as the 360s..........but the RSX has to use the cpu to make it comparable but its just as powerful. LAUGH MY FACKING BUM HOLE OFF.

The killer was them at the end saying the ps2 was capable/powerful as as the original XBOX, WOW just WOW.

[Xbox is the BEST]

like this dev trying to sell his game on the PS#3. Let me see Burnout made on the Cell and ported to the 360 and they look pretty much the same but the 360 has slightly more color not by much thou. Mark Reign said that UT#3 for the PS#3 look better that Gears, he was lying. When the Rage engine games come out look out. 360 FTW.

[onyxbox]

rsx was designed to take advantage of the spe's it's in the architecture, the IMB paper show's this design goal clearly. If developers don't take advantage of the design then we don't see the benefit.

In overview I think the idea is that the SPE's can help a slightly lesser GPU work a lot smarter and by introducing greater efficiency in what and how you render PS3 can produce a much better overall performance.

[kingnick]

The RSX is largely a stock PC part from a processing standpoint, only the bus system (designed to provide better GPU<>CPU bandwidth) is largely different.

[OpiZA]

We've only seen the tip of the iceberg in terms of what both consoles can achieve.

If you don't think the PS3 is going to perform considerably better then you're delusional. The same applies for the 360, if you honestly don't think the 360 has just as much untapped power, well then you can't be helped ;)

The 360 was easier 2 dev for because it's similar in ways 2 develop for the PC. Now that most dev's understand the PS3 architecture this seems to be an obstacle of the past

Now we find it's not a case of Xenos vs RSX, 360's cpu vs The Cell or Shared mem vs Seperate... it's now a situation of this dev team vs that dev team. It's more of a human issue (and all those common human problems such as Man power, talent and of course money).

If you can see it in this way, then perhaps you'll approach this hobby we all share in a less fanboyish manner. And possibly save you money for trips 2 the doc for high blood pressure ;)