Jeff of Just Press Start writes:
"Let me get this out of the way first: I always THINK I’m going to love tower defense games. Usually, one of two things happens: Either I a) lose interest after a few turns, or b) after I play the first few rounds the difficulty ramps up to such a point that I can’t progress any further. This is always frustrating. Fortunately, Level Up Labs has come up with the perfect fix for both of these issues with the release of Defender’s Quest."
“A lot of people like to say ‘Piracy is theft.’ It’s not.”
Man, G2A must be incredibly bad, then. I keep seeing ads for them when I shop sometimes, and now it sounds like I'm glad I stayed away from them.
Nothing wrong with G2A. Pub is just pissed off they are not able to double dip.
All of G2As keys are purchased from other providers, who pay the publisher, who pay the developer. The keys are then resold by users on G2A. These moron dev/pubs are thinking that because they themselfs were not the ones to sell the keys to G2A, that they should be able to double dip and get payed twice for the same key.
If it really was an issue of credit card charge backs on sites like Humble Bundle, all the Pub would have to do is void the key with Steam/Origin, problem solved. They are making shit up in an attempt to get payed twice.
Now G2A is telling them basically the same thing i just said. Refusing to pay them for keys they have already been payed for, so they are acting like butthurt 10 year olds, telling people to just pirate. Pubs like this deserve to go bankrupt.
Somebody's got to defend these thieves. It is a fraud fueled marketplace that doesn't give a damn who they are damaging. Hey, join our shield program to help protect against scams and fraud that they actively know that is going on and yet if you want to be protected from any fraud you need to subscribe to the Shield service, rather than tackling fraud directly within their thieves den.
Was nice seeing Ubisoft revoking stolen and fraudulent Far Cry 4 keys bought from G2A then seeing people crying on forums knowing well that they took the risk buying dirty goods from G2A. Good to see coverage from people like Nerdcube, Jesse Cox, TB, etc calling them out.
How about all publishers go bankrupt, so then G2A dies as well because then there would nothing stolen to sell. Idiots have enough money to buy high spec PC hardware, but too damn tight to buy games legally or wait for a steam sale.
You are wrong. The keys are purchased with Stolen Credit Cards. But go ahead and support G2A. Only a matterof time before it becomes class action.
rocketpanda:
When you buy a physical used game in-store, you don't care if it is stolen. However, you do risk that if the game is broken and you don't discover it until after the return period, you are on the hook. That is one of the reasons why GS offers disc warranty as an extra feature. This is no different. There is no way for G2A to verify if the key was bought with stolen credit cards or not, nor is it really their responsibility. For all we know, those keys could be legitimate.
That is the sellers responsibility to revoke those keys. G2A gave publishers/devs an opportunity to revoke keys that are stolen. There is no reason G2A should be giving publishers/devs the opportunity to double dip or set the minimum price of their game.
This is completely counter to a free and capitalistic market on second hand sales.
I would rather support publishers/devs than second hand market, but I feel this steps on consumer rights.
@donthate
It is their responsibility to verify keys arent stolen before selling them on their storefront.
Would it be alright for a honda dealership to take a stolen car and sell it on their lot. OF COURSE NOT!
Now on to your solution of justwiping the keys. The issue is that not all the keys were sold seperately. Some may have been through any numerous bundles, so they would have to verify bundle packages with stores first to see if any were stolen. Now that itself its too hard because stores would have a list of ahipments that were stolen. The issue comes when that products leaves the store. What happens if you went and bought a game, and on your way home you were mugged. As far as the store is concerned that is a legal copy of the game. But now someone has your game and is selling it on G2A for 100% profit while the person who actually paid for it. Has nothing.
Then theres the credit card fraud. Not only online but in stores where people use stolen credit cards to purchase games. It takes in some cases up to 15 days after a charge was put through for the fraud investigation to begin, depending on how the peraon uses the card.
There are too many variables for a small team to find and verify all the keys within 3 days. It would be crunching time for a company like EA.
So what does G2A do? Tell them the only way to verify at that point would be to hand over the master list of keys for them to go over... Sounds a little fishy, why not justsend your copy of the keys G2A has sold to get verified, well that wpuld lose any chance of getting keys from the publisher for free.
Lastly they offer a 10% cut to publishers for anything sold on their site. Thats bribery. Instead of actually verify and look to stop the fraudulent activity through G2A, they just want to pay off the publishers.
450k worth of stolen games is worth as much as 450k 1dollar bills. Why is ok to steal games but not steal money?
The difference between places like humble bundle and G2A is that Humble Purchases the keys directly from the publishers. G2A doesnt. They are an ebay or kijiji of gaming.
If humble bundle gets a chargeback they know exactly which key was linked to the transaction that was charged back.
G2a just takes a commision of games sold on their website. They arent 1p year old cry babies. They are hard working artists ans programmers who have been robbed of almost half a million dollars.
Next time you have 500k let me take 450k and see how much of a butthurt 10 year old
Isn't Defenders Quest made by and indie developer, who publishes their own games? They probably don't have the cash to hire people specifically to handle the hassle, and can't afford to divert personnel to handle it.
FYI Using the phrase butthurt, makes you sound like a 10 year old.
No, actually.
G2A buys keys from 3rd parties and doesn't give a crap how the sellers actually got them. Many are stolen or "bought" with credit card fraud, and many others were bought in poor regions where the price has to be lower or nobody could buy them at all and then resold in regions where people can afford it.
There is a *reason* they can charge less than everybody else. The publisher/devs, quite often, are simply not making money off keys G2A sells. Not like, they can't double dip, like they're taking a loss on keys that were obtained illegally and bought by people who (unlike many pirates) actually would have bought the game in the first place. Not because they keys themselves cost the publisher money, but because getting 30 fewer USD dollars from sales in a region where they're relying on that 30 bucks does.
You obviously have no idea how G2A works, but it's a comment section so I won't bother explaining, long story short, they're screwing devs in the ass, especially smaller ones. And charge backs are not a myth, but I guess you must be shopping there so you're biased anyway.
It's not double dipping since the devs don't get paid in the first place when a lot of the keys come from the use of stolen credit cards that get charge backs.
And you can't just magically disable a small set of keys since you aren't informed which are legit and which are not legit. And key purchases happen on steam as well.
You literally have no idea what you're talking about, I've used G2A in the past, but they definitely traffic in stolen keys.
Very well said. Basically wanted to say that but there's no need for that :D. 10/10
PSN Plus and XLive Gold monthly freebies work with the same cycle.
The situation here is pretty complicated. You can't say the people who are buying the keys from these grey market sites are committing theft, because the keys are in fact being bought by someone and then resold for a fraction of what the game was, mainly because of what region the game was bought from (many games are sold in other regions for a fraction of what, say, the US or UK would sell them for because of the economy in those regions being not as good as they are in the main ones). The double dipping doesn't seem to be in play here, though, because these are more indie publishers that making these statements. In 2014, EA and Ubisoft had run-ins with G2A, which is probably what Dasteru is thinking about (two publishers well known for not being consumer friendly).
But you don't know if that person that is essentially going to use that key they bought from G2A or any grey market site would have bought it for full price, anyway, or wait for a Steam sale down the line. You can't prove that intent. And because that end-user really doesn't know (or care) how G2A got that key, in the end, it leads to some issue as to who bears the responsibility of staying legit in this case. You can tell the end-user all day that they are thieves for buying off of G2A or a similar kind of site, but are they the bearers of the responsibility to know where that key came from? Of course, we know more then about these sites than we did back in 2014 when the EA and Ubisoft issues came about, but it's still something to consider as to if you can really call anyone who buys from the sites thieves. Do they know anything about the possibly shady way those keys are initially bought before they are sold to G2A? Do they know that those keys MIGHT be stolen (which in of itself is a very interesting term in this case because they are actually being bought by SOMEONE, but how they got the money to buy them is in question, which tells you something about how difficult this is to know where things begin to get suspicious)?
In short, while I do agree that it is rather shady, and I wouldn't trust G2A, I would hesitate before calling this all out thievery or outright piracy before understanding the site and the methods in which we're dealing with here.
G2A is a fraud ring with zero oversight. Many of the keys purchased on G2A are bought using stolen credit cards which are then charged back, costing the developers money and time (also money). There's no way to know if the key you are buying is actually legit or not, unless you pay them for a guarantee.
If you're going to use a greymarket key site, at least use a trustworthy one like Greenman.
@Pandamobile
Any sites like Greenmangaming that has Xbox 1 codes too?
I would like to stock up on Xbox Live cash fast.
Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. There are cases of credit card fraud, and there are cases of developers being pissed that a reseller on G2A bought a couple thousand humble bundles and then resold the keys after the bundle ended, and there are cases where they are legit. Pretty much the craigslist of keys, without the risk of getting murdered.
It's essentially the equivalent of buying stuff off the street in New York. Sometimes the stuff is legit, sometimes it's illegal knock-offs.
Can't play on a lot of servers if you pirate.
All my keys from G2A have been legit and i love it. Do these people not realize they are simply advertising and sending more people their way? So many good deals right now on the site
I wish I had known about G2A before I made a few purchases.
I always make sure to check the site to see if I can get a game cheaper.
Agreed. All of my PC purchases on from G2A. I'll never purchase anything directly from steam.
Do you ever wonder why their keys have a significant discount compare to other sites. smh
Something has to give.
Well... if your going to take that attitude. Then even though I haven't pirated a game in years if I ever actually want any game you make I promise I will not pay you for it in any way! Yo Ho Ho off to Piratebay for any of your games Lars Doucet. So get to working on something worth downloading! *cracks a whip*
*you hear the sound of the worlds tiniest violin*
So while they have been payed once they don't want to be paid at all instead?.
" It's A trap " Admiral Ackbar said.
DId you read the article? The keys are stolen with credit card fraud. Not just sometimes but constantly. Not only do devs have to give the money back, but they have to devote time and resources to finding and stopping the fraud (which costs money) or they get hit with chargeback fees from the credit card company, which costs even more money.
Well that's a ****ing stupid response. It doesn't have to be all of them to be a major problem with keys on G2A and it doesn't somehow magically mean that by buying at G2A you aren't supporting the mass credit card fraud they facillitate, because you are. You have no way of knowing the difference, and small outlets have reported up to 1/3ed of their sales when they put something up for a discount being made with credit card fraud. Where do you think those keys go? G2A. They don't care or verify how anyone got the keys and they're the biggest site, so that's where the keys end up.
If you wanna support them anyways because you're too self interested to care about the devs you're hurting then fine, but don't pretend to have some moral justification in "not all keys." You know it happens and if you check the user ratings for sellers on G2A or the stories of devs then you also know it's common practice. The least you can do is be honest about it.
No, because i want to play online and need a legit cdkey to authenticate to your servers to enjoy the game.
Then buy it from a legitimate source. Rather than fund the people who are actively organizing fraud against the developers that you enjoy.
You like to save money, and you like to play online, so you're okay with stealing from the developers and leeching off of their infrastructure for multiplayer. That is literally the statement you make when you pay your money to G2A instead of the people who actually make the game you love. The self-entitlement of your position is shocking. Crap like this is why studios embrace microtransactions, carve out content for DLC, or outright fold. Try looking at things from a broader perspective once in a while.
I'm sorry, but are these developers stupid ? There is nothing wrong with G2A
These developers are not stupid. They want to double dip and control pricing of their games, while using fraudulent charges as an unrelated reason to demand so.
Sadly, developers/publishers are winning too!
Except a lot of G2A keys were payed for with stolen credit cards. So you effectively buy stolen keys from them.
The law is very simple in this,once the license has been paid for it no longer requires to be paid for again.
Hence why they can't do anything legally towards retailers reselling their games.
Why i don't like digital content in general because you support this kind of mentality that is being displayed.
what's the difference with the used game market they should try to fix that first before attacking G2A
Seems they the devs are mad at G2A like they get mad about used copy sales.
Why dont they just NOT make keys for there games....or limit them.
There is a ton wrong with G2A you guys need to look into it. I would recommend not ever using the site.
*Citation needed
Is there something wrong with G2A or is there something wrong with the people who use it as a platform to sell "possibly" stolen keys?
If you have ever bought a used game before (from a garage sale, video store, or other means how did you verify that it wasn't stolen?
If you didnt verify than you are no different than anyone who uses G2A.
Just because people say its bad doesnt make it so. Show proof of liability that should ACTUALLY fall on G2A that you hold other retailers to and maybe you can convince me differently.
(P.S. Never bought a game from G2A, just havent been convinced the hates legitimate)
I would highly recommend it don't listen to this fool. 80 percent of the games I buy are through g2a and they are all legit games nothing illegal about it so I don't know what he is going on about.
Its hard to believe that there are this many naive people who think G2A gets the keys legally every time. Yes G2A gets some keys legit. However most of their keys come from fraudulent purchases. Then they resell the key and make a buck. Im not saying dont use G2A you spend your money however you want but lets at least be honest about it and say you dont give a shit how G2A got the key just that you are getting a great deal on a game.
I do care about this kind of thing, but where is the evidence they get most of their keys from stolen credit cards? And if they have done this so much and it's documented why aren't they in prison? And why isn't the site shut down?
I haven't bought anything from G2A, but I'm just trying to understand this situation.
"but where is the evidence they get most of their keys from stolen credit cards?"
Bc there isnt any. There was some evidence when the site kicked off between 2008-2010, but this was a long time ago. Shit didn't happen to them then and now they are a pretty legit site. The way they get the prices so low can be debatable. As far as stealing? Nah...
If you can prove they are breaking the law then do it and shut them down... otherwise its just complaining.
i like getting from G2A because then i get the benefits of being on steam such as achievements and trading cards and steam overlay in game of course. Thats why G2A is better then pirating to me. BTW with the steam sale i check to see if its cheaper then G2A and some times it is but most times its not so i keep buying G2A the devs can get a new job if they dont like it
Sorry, but Pirating takes more downloading time and I like being able to play online. I'll continue as a G2A user.
Yea you have no say how I get my games sorry. If a game is brand new and I know it's good and has a lot of content I buy it full price. If a game looks decent but lacking in some areas I buy through g2a or humble bundle or another third party. If a game is more or less not worth my time I pirate it play it a bit and delete it. All that being said I love g2a and what it offers.
Cost me more to buy it via them then it is in store anyway be due to the Aud conversion.
I wouldnt buy from them anyway i buy physical over digital.
Actually, from a publisher standpoint, buying a used game is worse than piracy. You are using money from your budget that you've allocated for gaming purchases, but given it to Gamestop (or whoever) instead. You are willing to pay, but you paid the "wrong" person. Pirating pretty much implies you weren't going to buy it anyway; either you don't have the funds, it's not available where you live, or you didn't really care about the game outside of the ability to get it free... or you're using it as a demo to see if the game is even good or runs properly on your PC (and with some of the horrible PC ports lately, can you blame anyone?).
I'm not saying buying or selling used games is bad, because it's absolutely not. Smarter publishers have realized the ability to sell games is how a lot of lower-middle class gamers are able to afford new games in the first place, and regardless of their claims of "you only bought the license!" I'll always uphold the belief of once you purchase it, you can do whatever you damn well please with it.
which is true, but what if you were to take someone elses credit card and use that to purchase the game.
would you still say you can do with it what ever you want? even though you didnt purchase it.
There are legit keys on G2A, but for ever legit key there is probably at least 1 illegitimate key. and its those keys that are hurting the company.
It's funny but it's always small time developers complaining about G2A. reminds me about the puzzle game made by the maker of Braid where the creator complained about how Piracy killed is game and the chance for a sequel was small.
Then we learned that he made a record in sales in the 1st week of the game.
Could G2A verified shady sellers?
Sure and I wish they would but it doesn't mean that they are trying to rip or steal.
That's stupid
G2A sells legitimate keys. Why would that be stealing, but pirating not?
The deva are sayi g if you are going to go through g2a, instead download illegally because if everyone who used g2a instead downloaded illegally g2a would hurt and lossibly go out of business. Personally never used g2a. Too damn shady specially with the riot esports fiasco that g2a tried to make themselvea ook like the good guys
G2A should be stepping up and bring in fraud protection of fraudulent credit card purchases
it sounds very easy to purchase 500 keys with a stolen credit card or infact put in a order for 10,000 keys
sell them onto the public and then it gets found out that it stolen credit card number.
easy way round this is for G2A to step up and add a security fraud protection system
talking with both the credit card company to make sure the purchase is real.
also why dont the developer.simply setup there own store cut out the middle men all together
so they like to brag
a merchant on G2A about how he’s making $3-4k a month, and he outlined the core business model:
Get ahold of a database of stolen credit cards on the darkweb
Go to a bundle/3rd party key reseller and buy a ton of game keys
Put them up onto G2A and sell them at half the retail price
another even simpler option woudl be when ever someone goes to sell a key therough their site, they have to verify the key with the developers. could easily stomp out some purchasers, specially if they say put a 5 day hold on the key before its avialble to be resold. that way it gives not only G2A and the devs time to verify, but also gives time for banks to catch fraudulent activity
The fraud protection should be from the original sellers not g2a. After all they are the ones who sold to a stolen credit card. I am pretty sure if a developer had a list of keys they could prove where stolen and G2A sold one after getting that list then G2A would be breaking a few laws too. Until then, you can be mad all you want but G2A isn't the starting point of the crime, and can't tell what keys are and aren't stolen so how would they know.
The problem here isn't G2a but the buyer of 500 Keys.
The buyer then re-sell the keys on G2a much like you would on Ebay.
According to the dev I should be ashamed too to resell a game I bought full price on day One ? Am I right ?
Same problem with used games ? I should not buy it because it may be stolen ?
That isnt the issue, becUse atthe end of the day when u bought it through steam, or humble bundle the devs were paid. Its the illegitamate fraud that the devs are against
Origin and Steam offers you repay if you are not pleased (rules differ) - full price.
There should not be a big number of keys available at lower that normal price,
* why resell a new game to a third party for less than you get when returning it directly?
* G2A needs to earn a buck too on each game, so the price they buy for is even lower.
It does not need to be G2A that uses the stolen cards, but buying new games at less than the return price invites to fraud. A way for the thief of converting stolen credit cards into money.
Can you sell your used game on steam or Origin?
@ below
The developers were paid when the initial buyers bought the keys from them.
And for the record some devs are even okay with G2a because there's no 20% given directly to valve because the game wasn't bought on the Steam store.
I don't understand ppl who feel like they need to steal games or rip developers off. I feel satisfaction in knowing i supported a developer/publisher who deserves it. Just buy your games legitimately, you bought your pricey gaming pc, but u can't shell out for games? There are so many great, legit sales for games on pc.
i don't feel sorry for ripping off Activision and EA most of their games are not worth the $60 so i buy them for $2-$10 with keys.
i checked out the site, it seems like its basically an eBay for digital only goods. Like eBay or any any site like that, you never really know how something was obtained, legally or illegally. I've not used G2A, but you might as well stop buying any used goods through , G2A, Ebay, Amazon 3rd Party Used, etc. if you don't want to buy through them.
Bingo. You said what I was thinking. G2A is like ebay.
I buy and sell on ebay. I dont know if what im buying is stolen and if I sell something that was stolen how is the buyer to know?
Has stolen items been sold on Ebay Amazon or G2A or similar sites? YES!!! So should people STOP using a site because something that was stolen was sold....and there are many other legit items being sold. IMO I think you should keep buying.
Piracy IS theft. This guy doesn't speak for most software developers. Even if he is right that G2A is horrible.
I personally like to support a dev/publisher when they create a title so I am happy to pay for my software in the knowledge that these people, who probably worked very hard and passionately to bring the game out, get the rewards they deserve.
Companies like G2A dont give a damn about games or gamers or the industry.
buying Activision, Ubisoft and EA games for a few $ with keys is the best thing you can do because games like Cod, fifa and asscreed are the same crap every year and they are not worth the $40-$60.
I happen to think those series' are pretty good, they have given me plenty of enjoyment over the years. You need to appreciate that without the likes of EA, Ubisoft or Activision we would lose the AAA market.
If you feel so strongly dont buy the games, but you cannot have your cake and eat it, these publishers are in the business of making money, they do this by producing great games (for the most part). People buying cheap codes directly impacts the profits of these companies, plenty of these big outfits have gone bust over the years, whats to say it wont happen again?
Question, so how do all of these keys end up in the wild? Is this not due to the publisher releasing keys as promotions, discounts, in addition to supporting other regions where they can be had for cheaper through exchange rates. If so I am not sure why they are mad at the consumer. Blame the publisher, and the fact that keys and front loaders are not region locked, but don't blame the consumer.
i don't feel sorry for buying EAids, Actvision and Ubisoft games for $2-$10 with keys because most of their games are broken trash like asscreed and the same trash like call of duty are not worth the $40-$60.
The fact that you still buy the games suggests your choice to use these scummy sites is purely down to selfish reasons and not out of some desire to make a stand against the publishers.
If you want to make a statement, try not buying the games........yeah, like thst would happen.
EA, Ubisoft and Actvision are releasing the same broken games every single year for $60 and with DLC over $90 they are destroying the gaming industry most ppl don't even know anymore what good quality games are i've paid $60 for games like dark souls and Skyrim and i feel every penny was worth it but when i buy a ubisoft, activision or EA game for $60 i feel ripped off that's why i only buy them for dirt cheap.
just bought Sonic all star racing transformed for steam off G2A for $3.41, on steam with the summer sale right now its $9.99 and thats with the 50% off right now....yea... i think ill keep using G2A.
I find it funny that the crying developers game is called Defender's Quest: Valley of the Forgotten. Considering his game has been forgotten and was made OVER FOUR YEARS AGO. If he doesn't like G2A selling his game for 2 bucks, then maybe he should drop the price of his game to 2 bucks to compete. I mean, really, how many copies of his game does he expect to sell for full price FOUR years after the release date. I have used G2A in the past and have only had an issue with an Xbox live code. All other games have worked fine.
Dear Devs, force your publishers to lower the prices of digital games and you'll be ok. Nobody would support chinesse scammers so much. Its idiotic to want almost the same price for the physical game and its digital copy!!!! Learn from your enemy and copy what G2A and Kinguin does. New digital games for about 35-40 bucks and after some time get significantly lower. Its stupid having old games on Steam for 40-50 bucks... Do not wonder players keep buying a year old games on G2A for 10 bucks rather than paying 40 on Steam. They even dont need to be worry about cancelled codes, cause they will mostly play it a week or two and never again afterwards... think about it
I am always skeptic when purchasing games on PC for this particular reason. Is the money going to the developers or are they creating keys off of key generators?
I want certainty that the makers are getting paid as they should.
Honestly if the keys are stolen then the problem isn't G2A, it's the services that are not verifying the purchases before sending out codes. They should be mad at Humble Bundle or other sites that are not cracking down on stolen cards.....
Honestly if I bought a computer on Ebay, turned around and sold it to someone else, turned out it was stolen, am I really the bad guy for buying it? No, I had no idea. And Ebay isn't going to take fault for it either. However Ebay will refund my money, take it from that person's account, and black list them from selling future products. Why isn't that happening here?
Many times I heard that publishers are the ones to blame for G2A way of doing things. Many publishers exploit small dev teams by generating 10-50k keys on Steam store, selling them directly to G2A without giving any money to devs. At that point, G2A is not to blame. But it's true that devs don't get any money from those purchases, but they were already screwed by publisher so damage is already done. :(
Defender’s Quest is a quality title that has seen a lot of love and care, it comes highly recommended. Level Up Labs has taken a stagnating genre and intricately laced it with compelling features, giving it a whole new image. There’s plenty of humour and the story is interesting. So go out there and discover the mysteries of ‘The Pit’ and the source of your powers.
GameZone: "Sony's handheld would be a good fit for some indie gems that are already quite popular. Here are 10 awesome indie titles that the Vita seriously needs."
1. Journey
2. The Walking Dead (is that considered Indie?)
3. Journey
4-10. Journey, Journey, and Journey.
Journey is probably my favourite game this year, and I even own a Vita, but putting Journey on the Vita seems kinda pointless to me given that the game is really only at it's best when it's played online.
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm either playing my Vita because I'm out of the house and away from my PS3 and my Internet connection, or I'm at home so I might as well just be playing the game on PS3 with the big screen and 5.1 instead.
That just leaves offline Journey play for the Vita, which just isn't the same experience IMHO.
I love playing indie games on my Vita - they are a perfect fit. I know Lone Survivor is coming, but what else?
I hope Sony are working to get plenty more on the system including new games + ports of these mentioned.
I also wish Sony would structure and integrate the PSMobile offering a bit better, I mean games like Super Crate Box is another decent indie title which resides away from Vita games in the PSM category. To me, there should be no PSM category on the Vita.