Deep Silver: "technology gap" between Consoles and PC, 360 the "weakest" platform

Risen 2's brand manager Daniel Oberlerchner has slated other studios who try and have the same experience across all platforms, stating that there is a clear "technology gap".

Speaking to Strategy Informer in an interview, Oberlerchner said that trying to have the same quality across the Xbox 360, PS3 AND PC "doesn't make any sense".

[Karooo]

Ouch. I can't believe he said that.

[Shanks]

Well I can, probably because it's true.

[brish]

Spike Video Game Awards winners for best graphics
2008 Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots (ps3)
2009 Uncharted 2 (ps3)
2010 God of War III (ps3)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Acedemy of Interactive Arts & Sciences Outstanding Achievement in Art Direction (year is the date of the award show, not the year the game came out)
2009 LittleBigPlanel (ps3)
2010 Uncharted 2 (ps3)
2011 Red Dead Redemption (xbox 360, and ps3)
http://www.interactive.org/...

IGN
2008 Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots (ps3 Best Graphics Technology)
2008 LittleBigPlanet (ps3 Best Artistic Design)
2009 Uncharted 2 (ps3 Visual Excellence)
2010 Kirby's Spic Yarn (Best Visuals wii wtf?)

[lugia 4000]

I will kill myself if BF3 PC doesnt get graphics award.

[MaxXAttaxX]

Good info.
Also, LOL at the end.

[christian hour]

I can't beleive this isn't common knowledge yet that it needs to be stated by a developer. Everyone knows when a multi-plat looks the same across the board its because it was optimised to the weakest platform. Its sad to see PC multiplat games suffer because of this, I reckon BF3 PC could look even better than it already does if its architecture wasn't designed to also work on consoles. Imagine phys x and cuda being the driving force behind BF3's destruction? That is something I'd love to see! Come on mods! Work your magic :D

[MrNivea]

Crysis 2 was another one that suffered. I don't really support the PC crowd with the whole PC vs Consoles thing...honestly I think they have to realise both are very different, but with Crytek licking Microsofts arse so much they forgot about their loyal PC crowd.

[Kleptic]

Crysis is a weird franchise...I only played a few hours of Crysis 2 with a cousin at some family thing last year...It was great looking, but it did feel totally gimped compared to the few hours of Crysis 1 I played years ago...

So i bought the PS3 version of Crysis 1...not for the visuals, or bitching back and fourth endlessly about it being 'the pc version on low' (its not even close to low, looks more than acceptable)...but to finally play through the entire game...

and now i don't feel like Crysis 2 was gimped at all...I just feel like both are average shooters...

seriously...the AI is atrocious...the first 2/3rds of the game can be fun, but the 'open world' nature is pretty gimmicky...yes you can go anywhere and do whatever you want, but the mission system makes it as linear as possible...you only have 1 primary objective at any given time, and its almost always right up a valley directly in front of you...

and those are the strong points of the game...as soon as you go in the mines, the game is terrible...an hour of frustrating zero G weirdness...then an hour of frozen island escort missions (I thought NOBODY liked those anymore?)...then a very poorly laid out finally on a carrier...

I get why so many scream about its graphics...and the console versions do look great, and run well...but its such a painfully average shooter imo, and being that its not a very traditional open world game in the mission sense...crysis 2 could have been the way it was even if it never came to consoles...

[WrAiTh Sp3cTr3]

" 'open world' nature is pretty gimmicky"
If you're going to say this about one game, you got to say it about all.

"...yes you can go anywhere and do whatever you want, but the mission system makes it as linear as possible"

This is an unavoidable game design and if there is a game that has been able to do so please enlighten us.

"then an hour of frozen island escort missions (I thought NOBODY liked those anymore?)."

The game is 4 years old....

[WrAiTh Sp3cTr3]

The best looking games run better on the 360. The proof is in the pudding. Risen? Lol...

Edit: if we're talking about consoles...

[FunAndGun]

The best looking games are not found on the 360.

even if we are talking about consoles.

[WrAiTh Sp3cTr3]

Do you have a complete consensus or are you just relying on the opinions of the people who post on n4g?

[Ghoul]

wraith

that depends on how the render architecture is set up.

you cant say that in general its on a case bye case base.

[MaxXAttaxX]

Are you talking about multiplatform games developed with 360 as the lead therefore the PS3 version not being equally optimized?
I hope I don't have to explain common sense to you.

[Ghoul]

im GLAD he said that

i want every dev to use every platforms advantage

if the 360 is the weaker part on this game so be it
there where enough games that used the 360s advantage and ps3 turned out weaker

i like it

[Chuk5]

They took as if Risen set the world on fire.
*Hint-it didn't

[news4geeks]

what does that have to do with the price of fish

[Fanbot]

the truth hurt

[fluffydelusions]

"360 the weakest platform"

Stating the obvious. This has been known for years now. But the question is does it really matter since devs always cater towards the weakest link?

[Jappy-k7]

if the "360 the weakest platform" means lack of first party studios and disc space problems then i'm with you...

ps3 and 360 both have the same power.

@ Gamer-Z

360 "can" produce better looking games but they need a talented first party studios like sony's ND and team ICO and a better disc format that's all

[Gamer-Z]

hmmm i dont remember any of Microsoft's first party games that looked as good as Killzone or Uncharted.

[_Aarix_]

Well gears does surpass all multiplatform games visually.

[death2smoochie]

"We want to make sure everything is maxed out on every platform - for example on the Playstation 3, it is a bit better in terms of Aliasing, but then extra memory is going to be better on the Xbox 360 because the PS3 doesn't have direct memory - so it has to share everything."

And in the end in most cases the PC version of multi-platform games with the exception of BF3, Metro 2033 and a few others get the shorty end of the technology stick and get gimped.

[kasasensei]

Risen 1 was a mess on 360. I can't trust them until i see a video comparison...

[slavish]

yeah this is a bad developer so talent does matter.

[AntBoogy90]

Bad developer? I thought Sacred 2 was pretty fun.. even if it was just straight up hack and slash.

/walks away

[Wizziokid]

well it's common knowledge that Between PC, PS3 and 360 it goes

PC > PS3 > 360 >>>>>>>&g t;>>>>>> Wii

I'm not trying to start anything but the PS3 is more can produce better looking games than the 360, it's just mutli-platform devs don't try to push the PS3 as much as exclusive devs I mean look at Uncharted 3

[Gazondaily]

Yeah but it is more of a hassle to 'push the PS3' when multiplatform games are concerned considering the fact that it is harder to develop games for the PS3.

That's common knowledge too.

[DatNJDom81]

back in 2007-2008.

If the dev hasn't learned to program by now then I know I wont support them.

[hano]

Your statement is true, that's why most multiplatform look a bit more optimized for 360.

The gap isn't huge...I don't know why you're being down-voted.

[MrNivea]

"it's just mutli-platform devs don't try to push the PS3 as much as exclusive devs I mean look at Uncharted 3 "

Probably because they think it's "so hard" to develop for.

Wait untill the PS4...we know Sony will make it developer friendly, look at the PSV for example it's basicaly proof Sony learn from their mistakes. The PS4 will be developer friendly and more developers will start taking advantage of the hardware. Instead of going to the 720 because how easy it will be to develop for the PS4 will be easy to develop AND will be more powerful, which one do you think developers will choose to work more on.

Even John Carmack will swtich sides I reckon.

[Gazondaily]

Well you're making a lot of assumptions there- how do you know the PS4 will be easier to develop AND more powerful than the '720? That's a complete utter guess.

But you are correct in that Sony will have definitely learnt their lessons from this generetaion regarding software development. It has presented itself as quite a hurdle for a lot of developers.

[MrNivea]

Because they wouldn't go on about the PSV being developer friendly and then make the PS4 hard to develop for....that would be silly.

[slavish]

you fangirls should read the article. Both are very very weak and both have pros and cons but ps3 does get a very slight edge but fanboys take it out of context.

"We want to make sure everything is maxed out on every platform - for example on the Playstation 3, it is a bit better in terms of Aliasing, but then extra memory is going to be better on the Xbox 360 because the PS3 doesn't have direct memory - so it has to share everything."

[Kleptic]

I'm not a developer...but what is he talking about with 'direct memory'?...and its the 360 that 'shares' memory...it only has one pool, but a lot of developers say thats a good thing...

meaning...the PS3 can't share all of its memory, the GDDR3 Vram is not fast enough to work with the CPU...while the server class XDR CPU memory can be used by the GPU...so the PS3 can only share memory in one direction...

the 360 can share in both directions...making this guys statement...not make a lot of sense...

[slavish]

Direct memory allows certain hardware subsystems within the computer to access system memory independently of the central processing unit (CPU). Its really up to developers on which they prefer. I can pull 10 articles of developers that prefer 360 or vise versa. Both are very close alot closer then ps2 and the 1st xbox. its sad we still have this topic running after both have been out dated for years. Cell phones will out perform these units this year!

[Kleptic]

oh ok, cool...I understood that the 360's cpu or gpu could access and use the 512 GDDR3 pool independently of each other...assuming the required amount is free...I just never read that as 'direct' memory...

[elshadi]

"Some studios say they are going to have the same quality across all platforms, which is to say you take the weakest platform - the Xbox 360 - and you have the same crappy textures for the Playstation 3 and the PC." "

every one already know that

[MGRogue2017]

It's all about the PS3's SPEs.. Devs need to take advantage of 'em, whenever possible.. 'cause if they do, PS3 shines.

Yeah, I'm looking at you, Infinity Ward, MW3 better utilise those mother f*ckers. BF3 does.. so well done to Dice for taking advantage of all that the PS3 has to offer.

The PS3 version of Black Ops by Treyarch is a perfect example of how not to develop for the PS3.. it runs like sh*t.

[whitesoxfalife1976]

i remember u used to have a lot of bubbles wth happen?

[ReflexGamer]

I agree man, but mw3 prolly won't utiluze them because microsoft has activision by the balls. That's why I won' be buying their dated modern warfare 4.75

[Laxman]

Humerous that when a developer, in this case Deep Silver, a niché designer/publisher with no truely great games or accomplishments under their belt, say that Xbox is the weakest console, the majority of N4G jumps for joy and act as if they can touch the moon.

But when John Carmack, one of the most respected names in the entire video game instursy and coder the the most influential and groundbreaking FPS games of all time says that the Xbox is better than the PS3, its all sword and brimstone on these forums and comments, with dozens of people even going as far as downright insulting the man and his work, as if he came and did something on par with doing the dirty to your pets and left you an upperdecker.

As an avid, long time and very loyal Xbox fan, yeah I can admit that its the weakest console in terms of power and graphical capaibilites, but gaming is about so much more than that, and despite technicalities (if we all went by them, we would all only play the PC), it simply comes down to personal taste in games, community and the likes, which each machine does differently in both good and bad ways.

To say that one is 'better' that the other is simply opinion, not a fact, becuase although my PC may be 'better' than my Xbox, I play games on my 360 becuase I prefer it much more and it fits in so much better with what I want and use gaming for.

[elshadi]

he never said xbox is better
he said he only prefer to work with xbox
bec ps3 is hard for him
i hate him bec he messed up the pc/ps3 version
and then blam ps3 and pc bec RAGE flopped with reviews and sales

this is from Carmack :
"""the extra horsepower of the Cells will let them transcode it into graphics memory much faster than the 360 and faster than all but the most extreme PCs, but

"its a pain in the ass to take advantage of it that way."
"" "
he admit that ps3 is more powerful but he can't get that power out bec the consoles is too hard for him

[Laxman]

Actually;

"The PS3 is still far and away better than anything else that’s ever been made… except maybe the 360." - John Carmack

"The rasteriser is just a little bit slower – no two ways about that. The RSX is slower than what we have in the 360. Processing wise, the main CPU is about the same, but the 360 makes it easier to split things off, and that’s where a lot of the work has been, splitting it all into jobs on the PS3." - John Carmack

"The PS3 does lag a little bit behind in terms of getting the performance out of it" - John Carmack

"Well, the PS3 is the second best console ever made," When asked what the best is, "The Xbox 360" - John Carmack

Im in no way a fanboy or trying to put down the PS3 (I love that crazy machine, and all the games on it - Heavy Rain is my favourite game of this gen and LBP is my all-time favourite platformer), but what you said is wrong and I feel I must correct you in a respectful manner.

[Kleptic]

both of you said the same thing though...you didn't really 'correct' him Laxman...

If its the same interview I read a while ago (i'll try to find it)...he was talking about the core PPU's of each respective processor...thats what he meant by 'the main CPU of the two consoles is the same'...which is exactly correct...they are both IBM powerPC based cores...the 360 has 3...the PS3 has 1...

the SPE's of the Cell allow for all kinds of calculations, but are extremely tedious to code in cooperation...and are NOT 'the main CPU'...you do not have to use them...you can use the cell like a simple single core CPU if you want, and a ton of developers continue to do that (and its relatively crappy at that)...when coded properly, it can do a whole lot more than the 360's cpu...but its difficult and not always cost effective to do so...Now less so than when this gen started, but still time consuming...

DICE just put up all kinds of development diary stuff recently on this exact same thing...stating the 360's GPU has an advantage over the PS3's RSX...but the PS3's CPU has much more flexibility, and can take significant work load off the GPU...when you dig in and spend the time to do it...Frostbite 2.0's lighting system is being handled on the PS3's CPU...where as on the 360 its done on the GPU...Exactly what Carmack was talking about...

the architecture of the PS3 had little advantages for ID Tech 5...its just the design Carmack decided to go with...IDT5 has a VERY simple lighting system...its power is in scalability and dynamically changing texture meshes to sustain 60fps on relatively weak hardware...these things put much more emphasis on a GPU, as there is no easy way to offload any of these things to a different processor efficiently...

That doesn't mean Carmack sucks, or Rage sucks, or anything...its just the engine is one of those that doesn't translate well to the PS3...in the sense that there is no way for it to use any of the ps3's slight advantages...yet uses all of the 360's slight advantages...if that makes any sense...

and Carmack loving the 360?...I have yet to see a normally PC'centric developer, making the jump to consoles recently, NOT say that...the 360 is literally a weak PC with a very simple operating system and small OS footprint...as far as PC devs go, thats a dream come true...the PS3 is radically different than PC's entirely, which is the biggest set back for it...

Lastly...Carmack walked right into what happened with Rage critically...He's struggling with PR in that he keeps talking about the two consoles, and igniting flame wars about it...but the simply truth is that ID Tech 5 isn't that special on ANY platform...the lighting system is ancient, and step backwards from IDTech 4...and the streaming issues and texture pop is apparent on every platform, including PC (save the recent config file adjustments that allow you to tweak Vram usage)...

[Laxman]

Actually, by him saying the words 'he never said xbox is better', and by me posting a quote where Carmack openly stated he thinks Xbox is better, I corrected him.

[WetN00dle69]

@coolbeans

Its already started, they have completely ignored what Carmack said and they started to listen to a developer that hasnt even released a good title in AGES! Their first successful title was Dead Island. LMFAO! I think Carmack should teach this lame ass dev how to code.

[A-Glorious-Dawn]

erm, call of juarez was quite successful I thought.

Dead island while buggy as hell is a good game.

[ReflexGamer]

Carmack is not all he's cracked up to be, Rage sucked imo, and definitely is not the best looking console game as he proclaimed it would be. He is a pc guy that favors the 360 cause of it's very similar architecture, and is somewhat lost on the ps3 and doesn't want to put in the effort to take advantage of it's strengths.The ps3 is stronger than the 360,period, just look at ps3 exclusives

[Voxelman]

Deap Silver is a publiher they didn't make anything, Techland made Juarez and Dead Island, Risen (the series being discussed) is made by Piranha Bytes.

[WetN00dle69]

Well then FCK deep silver then!
If these MOFO cant code for shite, Why open your shite stained mouth? And no Carmack IS and will always be the best damn dev in gaming history. He has more talent in his pinky than anyone working under MS or Sony!

[hano]

You gotta be kidding. Risen was great on the PC. Not sure about the 360 version.

[maniacmayhem]

Laxman speaks the truth.

The hypocrisy of this site continues to astound me.

[T3MPL3TON]

They speak as if anything they've made matters. We all know the 360 is the weakest platform, but that doesn't stop companies from turning out amazing visuals on it. Risen was garbage. Anyone here actually play it?

Don't worry, I'll wait.

[green]

Very True. have they made any game on the PS3 ths gen?

[radphil]

...Dead Island...

I really wonder if people actually keep up on the research of what companies do.

[Sidewinder-]

Risen is a decent game. On PC.

[SDF Repellent]

Did you guys know that the Sega Saturn was more powerful than the PS1 back in the days based on raw spec? Guess what, the developers didn't care as the PS1 was easier to developed for.

and the title of this post is so misleading, probably posted by some random fanboy looking for some kudo point from his fellow N4G colleagues.

And I cannot name one Deep Silver title on top of my head right now.

[DaTruth]

Did you know the XBOX was easier to develop for and more powerful than the PS2! But developers didn't care because PS2 was more successful!

Simple fact is, if it wasn't for the 360 releasing earlier, this whole "PS3 is hard to develop for" thing wouldn't even be an issue!

It's meaningless at this point because both are just too old! People in 3rd world countries should be the only people still playing these!

[WetN00dle69]

It would have still been an issue. There is no two ways about it. It wouldnt have mattered if the PS3 had released before the 360.

[AriesSiren]

well its true. the 360 is outdated just like DVD and everyone knows it. 7 gigs max space? the audio is compressed also and so are the CG's. theres no DTS or HD audio on 360. it sucks from a technological standpoint. it could never do Uncharted. the xbox720 needs to come out asap and deliver a true next gen experience without compromise.

[qwertyz]

both consoles are horribly outdated and neither of them as as powerful as a dual gpu high end pc from 2005 so what are you talking about ? even duke nukem forever or bulletstorm pc looks better than uncharted 3 and every other console game and those games are bot even impressive by pc standards

lol crysis 1 meidum with some AA and Af looks better than UC3 did you know that ? infact metro 2033 and crysis 2 LOWEST settings 720p look better than UC3 lol there are vene wuite a number of pc games that make UC3 look like a ps2 game so pc is a generation ahead of ps3 and 360.

both consoles do have their strengths and weaknesses when put against each other

the 360 is a bit better at memory and bandwidth intensive calculations such as alpha effects(360 can actually render alpha effects at full resolution which isn't possible on ps3 due to lack of rsx memory bandwidth), god rays and textures due to the extra memory avaialable and the massive EDRAM bandwidth.

the 360 is also a bit better at rasterization related calculations due to its superior gpu(spes cannot help with rasterization) so is faster at geometry rendering and also texturing due to higher texture sampling rate(which the spes cannot help with)

the ps3 is better at post processing effects, lighting and particle effects because of the cell.

the ps3 may have a little more overall raw power but its not as much a difference as xbox 1 vs ps2 by the way the 360 can save performance using certain tricks

fo example HDR on ps3 must be done by the spus because the rsx is too weak but is FREE on the 360 using the EDRAM which saves some horsepower while the ps3 will have to burn a bit of horsepower to do the same thing

water rendering can be done on 360 using its weak tesselator and edram bandwidth while but the ps3 doesn't have a tesstelator or enough gpu memory bandwidth so majority of the water simulation must be done using some spe processing power while the 360 would do the same without burning horsepower at all.

see how that works ? it all depends on the situation but sony first party devs design the games around what the console is best at doing while MS has almost no first party studios to do similar things :/

but when you look at crysis 2, crysis 1, RAGE, battlefield 3, forza 4 and skyrim all on 360 you'll realize that the difference between both consoles is not as much as you'd like to think.

really both consoles fail even up against 2005 ultra spec pcs LOL new consoles have been needed since 2006 consoles where outdated since 2005( a year before ps3 launched) consoles have been holding back pc since they launched. PC reigns supreme..PC FTW!!! pc has been a generation ahead of consoles since 2009

[Karlnag3]

Who else has lost track of the amount of times qwertyz has posted this comment?

[pctrollv4]

hahaha, these guys know more than carmack, the one that said ps3 was weaker. This just shows the excuses carmack puts to defend rage. If it isnt drivers, its the console, and if not, the pc market.

[SDF Repellent]

OK...Can you give me the name of the GUYS from Deep Silver that you claimed know more than John Carmack.

That is like naming the starting Quarterback for the Cleveland Browns and claiming he is superior to Tom Brady because the coach said so.

[Kingdom Come]

It amuses me how a developer of whom have never come close to maxing out the potential of any console can release a statement such as this.

[KonaBro]

I thought PC>PS3>360 was common knowledge?

[OC_MurphysLaw]

Nothing in this interview was earth shattering or new news... but I did get a chuckle out of the "crappy textures" comment.

[AngelicIceDiamond]

The Xbox isn't really capable of producing graphics like uncharted but it produces enough other than graphics to make a compelling games.

Xbox has a long term effect on people. Maybe its the fact that they're isn't as many problems with they're games at launch and are able to get in to games with friends real quick or it could be the overall gameplay is very addicting and rewarding, Because games are built with quality that's tailored with sociability and highly addicting gameplay experiences. Sometimes it isn't about graphics but performance and features plays a factor.

The fact that the Xbox can even produce graphics like BF and Crysis isn't bad for a console that's dated and old.

[nilamo]

Ehm gears of war 3 looks better than uncharted 2.

[_Aarix_]

And a hell of a lot longer. And gears didn't need 35gb of space

[AngelicIceDiamond]

Well yeah yeah Xbox can produce really really good graphics but its behind technicality and sociability is what also makes up the Xbox. Despite my disagrees (for whatever reason.) I'll give you bubbles.

[AriesSiren]

your smokin crack if you think gears 2 or 3 can ever compare to uncharted 2 or 3. come on dude wake up. uncharted uses this thing called "Color" its not silver and grey

[GraveLord]

Is anyone surprised? I mean Microsoft release the console a year before the PS3. There's at least a 1 year technological gap between PS3 and 360.

[402]

its not 1 one year leap its just a minimal overall peformance difference with each console having its strengths and weaknesses when put against each other 2005 uber spec pcs are more p[owerful than either consoles and a 2006 single gpu high end pc is over 3x more powerful than ps3.

ps3 was ready by 2005 it only launched in 2006 because of shortages in blu-ray nodes so from a tech standpoint ps3 and 360 are single gpu high end pc from 2005 with 2003 ram(yeah 512mb ram has been outdated since 2004)

today even a core 2 duo with some cheap ram and a $35 gpu would destroy either console but consoles still have good games though

[ATi_Elite]

Risen?

Did these guys just make a average game and now wanna blame graphics as to why the game was just average?

[Sidewinder-]

Hi Five Deep Silver!

When's X: Rebirth out?

[humbleopinion]

Regardless of what he say's there I Wouldn't count on his opinion anyway: he's a brand manager, not a developer.

[Shadowaste]

It's like this;

PC versions of games the same time xbox360 came out in 2005 were about the same, maybe just a bit better than 360 for most pc users. The resolution was around 768p average on pc and had 4x anti aliasing, where the average 360 was 720p(it was mandatory then...lol....till they realized the thing could barely do it)with zero anti aliasing or 2x.

By the time ps3 came out in 2006, the pc was beyond ps3 and 360 quite a bit, 1600x900p was quite common for pc gamers, those 20" and 22" monitors were selling like crazy.
Gamers were mostly using 4-8x anti, and console games had sunk to even lower resolutions to get near the same details in as the pc.

By 2007 Crysis 1 came out and left the consoles a full gen behind, and most people were gaming in 1080p while consoles were doing 720p if you were lucky or less as they are today.

By 2009 the consoles had achieved the best they ever could, specifically the ps3 with uncharted 2, granted it still looked nowhere nears as good, or was as large in scope as crysis, but it was amazing looking.

Today, every AAA game that comes out on pc looks sharper, crisper and runs better on pc by a full generation.

When I play older titles like Titan Quest(from 2006) in 1080p at 120 frames per second, it looks better than anything on console.

PC games get better with age, you can run them at higher resolutions, add more anti aliasing, community patches and mods that enhance the visuals make an old name new again for free. GTAIV looks a full gen beyond the GTAIV on console with out any mods, add them in and it is a different world.

[ShiftyLookingCow]

What is this guy complaining about? Whats the point of improved graphics when your QA sucks so badly? Ex. Dead Island

lol Singles is the only thing I remember Deep Silver for. I downloaded it as a horny idiot teen only to find its a goddamn bug fest and overall crap of a game.

[Pootangpie]

this is not even worth a read yet it,s nothing but a shitty article made for fanboys

[Bolts]

I bet nobody outside of the PC world gives a single shit about this game. But because the dev made a remark regarding the "weakest platform" the fanboy swarmed all over it.