How can Gran Turismo ever take back the crown from Forza Motorsport?

Gran Turismo 5 and Forza Motorsport 4 are now both finally out at the same time, allowing the internet to squabble over physics, graphics and just about anything else they can get their hands on – and trust me, they are.

The truth of the matter though, is that when it comes down to critical acclaim, Forza 4 has Gran Turismo 5 completely beat.

[Ognipode]

I really love that I can swap out between Forza and GT5 and get the best of both worlds. Its funny how this genre has become such a topic of interest for console gamers, merely because of the initial success of the GT games though.

[vishant101]

The thing is when gt came out it had no competition it was the only sim racer but when turn 10 was created they had only one goal to beat gt and tbh they achieved it with their first game thats why the forza games are enjoyable they arn't created to beat gt thats already been done they are created for car lovers to enjoy cars.

[Yi-Long]

... Now, both games seems more aimed at car-enthusiasts and 'collectors' than it is aimed at gamers or racing-fans.

We get hundreds of gorgeous highly detailed cars, but if I'm not interested in cars, that's hardly a huge selling point.

I just care about the RACING, and to have fun racing, you need to have lots of great fun gorgeous tracks to race on. Not just the same old boring racing tracks which we've been playing for ages now!

Give me a HUGE variety of drop-dead gorgeous FUN tracks to race on! And a nice sensation of speed as well!

[DaTruth]

Suddenly, sales =/= quality.

Next article Halo vs. Killzone.

Sales = quality again.

[Ognipode]

Actually DaTruth,

GT sold way more than Forza from what I know, and as a matter of fact I've had GT fanboys throwing that in my face all month, saying that sales are the equivalent of fans having their say.

[Perjoss]

"Suddenly, sales =/= quality."

It's not just the sales, review scores have also been higher for Forza. But to be honest both games are great, I just can't stand how they did the menus in GT though.

[BrutallyBlunt]

I think they are both good driving games but for different reasons. People need to take the platform they are on out of the equation and then focus on each games merits. The main issues stem from console loyalty from what I have seen.

Forza simply doesn't have the history Gran Turismo has. I also find the Forza games to be incremental upgrades while Gran Turismo 5 had too big of ambition. There needs to be a fine line of development time versus a whole new entry. The team behind Forza might be better off having longer development cycles now that they got the engine look spectacular, while the team behind Gran Turismo needs a kick in the ass to work a bit faster and be more focused.

[sikbeta]

I think that GT5 was punished all over just because of the Standard Cars and the UI, reviewers never took into account how much stuff was added in the game, just think, the game has Nascar = Nascar Tracks + Nascar Cars, WRC = WRC Tracks + WRC Cars, Karting, F1 Tracks and more, if you want to experience ALL that, you need like 3 Different Games minimum. the amount of variety in the game is second to none, OK, the game has 800 standard cars, but that doesn't take out the ALL things the game has to offer, the amount of Premium cars you can enjoy driving, the satisfaction of driving the car you like in a Real World Track you never been before, it's just insane...

[humbleopinion]

DaTruth, sales are never quality.
But what's your point in bringing Halo VS Killzone to this debate? Did anyone ever claim that Halo is better solely because it sells better? If you wish to compare them quality wise just check the review scores.

[Mustang300C2012]

LevelHead,

Xbox doesn't have the history Playstation has. What is your point? GT came out before Forza years prior. Just like the PS brand has been around since 95 vs Xbox in 2001. Forza has done what alot of people and fanboys doubted it to do. It has simply delivered what gamers and enthusiast like. Nothing to take away from GT but I simply enjoy & have more fun playing Forza than GT. I feel Forza's prsentation is much better than GT's.

I will tell you one thing. If GT allowed you to virtually walk around and get inside the beautiful cars in that game, motherfu*kers would be all over that and praising what Poyl did on that one feature alone. You gotta lover contradictions.

I love how fanboys will move the line when it comes to arguing over games. First it was a game based on Meta scores is what makes it a respected game and now flip the script and now the sales is what made the same game that prior to having the high score is no long the factor. I personally don't care for review scores to begin with I game for me.

[Iroquois_Pliskin]

I dont recall Forza ever beating Gran Turismo

[Aloren]

The difference between halo/killzone and forza/gt is the trend.

When killzone came out, it was "vastly outsold" by halo 2, which sold 10 times as much, and the reviews for halo were also much better, by a 25 margin on metacritic.
7 years laters, Halo reach still vastly outsells KZ3, though it sells "only" 4 or 5 times as much. And the reviews are still much better. Though the margin is "only" 7 points.
Reach is also the second best selling halo of all times.
Overall, Halo remains out of reach(ahah...) for KZ.

When forza 1 came out, GT4 had similar reviews, but GT still outsold it 10 to 1. Now, forza 4 has better reviews, and forza 3 was outsold by GT5 only 1.3 to 1. Forza sales have also constantly improved, while so far, GT5 is still the "worst selling" GT (though it will obviously continue to sell).

So yeah, the different conclusion between Halo/KZ and forza/GT makes sense. Halo remained on top and maintained a significant lead on KZ on all accounts. GT didn't.

[buddymagoo]

Just going off of disagree and agrees, it looks like GT5 is still king.

I like both but I have to say GT5 is my favourite. Having grown up in the motor trade I love the options of cars and their authentic feel.

[DaTruth]

That's what I meant! The article says Forza is the king now, but GT sales are higher! Sales = quality has been the mantra for 360 games. Robocop summed it up well.

Surprised I had to explain that!

@Aloren: There is no reviewer in the whole world who would review Halo bad and risk losing out on their piece of that 30 mil ad money for their magazine; they would be fired for sure! Any game that has a 3 times bigger budget for advertising than development is gonna get a high review score! Review scores are pretty meaningless now unless the game has a low ad budget, but still gets high scores!

[Aloren]

Yeah because when halo gets good reviews, it's undeserved. And people play it for years because MS paid them ?

[ApplEaglElephant]

this is what Da Truth means when he say "suddenly sales =/= quality"

360 fanboys always bring up sales and forget about review scores. Now a PS3 game out sells Forza by multiple times, 360 fanboys change their usual argument of sales.So which is it 360 fanboys? Does sales= quality or not? make up your fanboy minds.

BTW, Forza is a good game, but does not excuse for MS only releasing 2 exclusives entire year.

@Aloren

GT4 beat Forza 3's sales by more than 5 million. get your facts straight. I am guessing you dont even own PS3.GT5 is the one that just came out. If you are comparing GT5 vs Forza 3. then check this out.

In 6 weeks of Forza 3's release, it sold 1.3 million copies. in 6 weeks of GT5's release it sold 5.3 million copies.

[fei-hung]

To beat GT you have to beat the fact it is the only real driving simulator on any console.

Played Forza and I love it to bits. It is by far the best racing game I have ever played in my life. It beats Shift2, Dirt, Grid and all the other racers.

GT5? No, not GT5. The racing physics are more arcadey in Forza, even with all the aids turned off and the sim racing content is uncomparable on GT5.

Even when it comes to graphics, Forza looks a hell of a lot better, but that's not because they are, but because the game has been designed to look more vibrant and colourful.

GT5 is designed to look more realistic and unfortunately, the real deal is a bit dull compared to what we would rather see as eye candy at times e.g. a hentai babes figure compared to Angelina Jolie lets say.

2 games that are both brilliant at what they do, but have different purposes. They haven't beat each other at anything since they both cater for a different audience.

Fun lighter hearted racer = Forza
Hardcore sim racing = GT

[Aloren]

@ApplEaglElephant you can guess all you want, I still have a PS3 and about 40 games with it. I don't know why you would compare GT4 to forza 3 though, it doesn't make sense.

And I'm perfectly aware that GT5 had a very strong debut (one year ago btw), but that doesn't change the fact that Forza 3 ended up selling 5 million copies, does it ? Very few games do that..

[ApplEaglElephant]

MS has marketing partnership with Viacom the media conglomerate giant. The biggest TV conglomerate on earth.Forza as a result got a huge backing.

As for Forza 3, it is out longer on bigger userbase. what is the point of comparing sales over YEARS vs GT5's sales over LESS than 1 year?

Fact is when you are looking at a same period of sales. GT5 sold 5.3 million while Forza 3 sold 1.3 million both in 6 weeks.

GT5 outsold Forza 3 by a lot without Viacom marketing their stuff. And yes, Viacom literally owns the media. especially TVs, webs and etc.

With that much marketing power, you can market tampons as effective nose bleed stopper.

[Marceles]

"How can Gran Turismo ever take back the crown from Forza Motorsport?"

When the media wakes up from their "All things PS3 sucks except Uncharted 3" mentality they've had since it launched

[baodeus]

@levelhead
" think they are both good driving games but for different reasons" nice job man. Couldn't agree more.

@appleeaglelephant

why not count the total sell? i mean don't u guys usually say that ps3 games has long legs when arguing that ps3 don't sell well INITIALLY comparing to x360 (ex: UC vs Gears)? Of course i don't think Forza gonna outsell GT eitherway due to brand recognition (similar to how halo, mario, MGS, FF are still selling like hot cakes).

Higher sell intially mean: more money, less chance of people buying used game (reason why developers/publisher using online pass now a days), etc...It is just better.

@da truth

But Halo also has higher rating vs. KZ.

Halo 3 = 94, +12 mil
Halo Reach = 91, ~8 mil?

KZ2 = 91, +3 mil
KZ3 = 84, +2 mil?

I think u should use something else, cause Halo beat KZ in both sale and rating (I haven't even mention about contents,mp, or balance either).

closing:
Rating and sell numbers are just there to help u with purchase decision. If you prefer one over the other eitherway, by all means, go for it. No need to protect/justify anything. Take it as it is, no need to be a cry baby.

[Messatsu290]

In this industry full of casual gamers what is easy, simple, fake, and fun always is praised more than what is hard, and realistic. In every review of forza the the reviewers always said the game is fun to play... nuff said. GT5 is suppose to be real as possible, if you don't enjoy driving your car out in real life I don't expect you to enjoy GT5.. If you want to drive a car in a test track and crash it into gigantic pins and play car bowling then Forza is for you. I love GT5 because the graphics and physics is what makes it closest to a driving simulation on consoles, Forza to me just feels like another racing game.

[ApplEaglElephant]

There is no denying it.Look at Uncharted 2. Highest rated exclusives on PS3 and 360. second highest rated game ever on both PS3 and 360.

Yet, fanboys talk about sales all the time. Yet, they forget MS's partnership with Viacom, earth largest TV conglomerate.

I repeat this, but you can market tampon as nose bleed stopper successfully with that amount of marketing back up. MS dropped 500 million dollars on Kinect marketing like nothing.

[ProjectVulcan]

I can see why reviewers might consider Forza 4 to be a better game. GAME.

I can see why sim purists such as myself consider GT5 to have better physics or generally being a better sim. SIM.

Its a fine line between what people want and desire more. For some people preferring GT5 for its physics and apparent more hardcore route gives them more enjoyment than Forza's excellent social integration.

Forza is arguably the more 'accessible' route for gamers that just enjoy racing fast cars, rather than serious car nuts that demand authenticity who might prefer GT5 which bothers less with the 'gamer' experience.

I like a taste of both really. I feel very much at home in either experience. Both can always improve still, Forza could become more of a stickler for accuracy, GT could always have more refined consistancy as a game.

However by doing this maybe you'll upset even more people? Maybe it doesn't always occur to some reviewers that people will always prefer one style over another, much like how some people will ALWAYS choose FIFA over PES, and vice versa, no matter what the reviews decide is 'best' that generation/year.

Just take what you enjoy and play that instead of complaining about somebody elses choice....

[Dee_91]

I just find this so funny.
T10 saying they took the crown
While kaz is saying he dont try to compete with other racing games..

How can you win a battle when one person doesnt even know theres a battle going on ?

Deciding which is better is pure opinion. Bragging about reviews are just like bragging about opinions.

This Genre SUCKs SO BAD because not only do you get the console fan boys you get the car enthusiast.Car enthusiast argue about what type of cars are the best what specs are most important etc.So you add that with the fanboys you get hell.
Im staying far away from it and Im not responding to these arguments anymore because its very pointless tbh.

[YogiBear]

@ VulcanProject

If more people shared your opinion, n4g would be like a ghost town... I totally support that.

[Bull5hifT]

Gran Turismo never lost the "CrowN"....Bill Gates Lost a Small Fortune paying off those Reviewers, That is All, Really Need for Speed Shift 2 or Toca Race Driver or whatever those games are called are in the Forza Level, the Amount of Love and Detail put into GT , cant even be Acheived by some devs that just sorta wanted to step in, where GT creator Lives for This, turn 10 are just trying to get this one out just to churn out another one in 2 years

[IcarusOne]

This is one of the worst written opinion pieces I've ever seen.

[Legion]

@Bull5hifT
"Bill Gates Lost a Small Fortune paying off those Reviewers, That is All..."

You do realize that Bill Gates has basically been retired for many years now? He is still one of the wealthiest men in the world and he has convinced Warren Buffett to join forces with him on many projects to help charities.

Recently they have joined together and are asking the nation's billionaires to pledge to give at least half their net worth to charity, in their lifetimes or at death.

So stop trying to demonize Bill Gates because of your distaste for Microsoft.

Next thing we know you will be harping Steve Jobs for something Apple is doing in a years time. (p.s. he is dead... pick a new guy if you are going to mouth off about Apple)

[MaxXAttaxX]

LOL

Seriously though, they're not even on the same systems. Pointless competition.

[Tommykrem]

@Yi-Long
GT is aimed at car enthusiasts and collectors. It's been that for some time, and it's going even more in that direction. GT5 is about driving the car you love on a road you enjoy. Having said that I agree there could be an even better selection of tracks (especially new ones)
It's also selling well, so if it's not a sale point it's certainly not a sale stopper.

[WANNAGETHIGH]

GT5 is still king.

[KonGreat]

On the PS3*

[Tr10wn]

in your dreams bro. lol

[andrewsqual]

The worst thing is all the reviews of Forza 4 are saying they finally nailed the realistic handling. Then why the hell have review scores of Forza 3 saying that the handling was perfect and that it still got higher scores then GT5 too if they only nailed it now? Reminds me of Xbots who used to say in 2007 that a 360 is the exact same as a PS3. Then they add a HDMI to it, now its the same as a PS3. Then they add a larger Hard drive to it, now its the same as a PS3. Then 3 years later they finally add STANDARD wireless to it, oh now its the same as a PS3. THEN WHAT WERE YOU SMOKING BACK IN 2007?

[stvn_k26]

[email protected] No, not in his dreams!! GT5 is THE king in the real world!!

[YodaCracker]

It would be hard to find a place outside of N4G where people consider Gran Turismo to still be king. Maybe a PlayStation fansite?

[YogiBear]

@ YodaCracker

Care to back up your statement with I don't know...Facts?

[frostyhat123]

Look at all the ps3 fanboys agreeing with him. Classic.

[bennyace]

How can the lowest rated game of the franchise make it king??? It went downhill since after GT3 for me!

@frostyhat123...and disagreeing with you! hahaha!

[Tapewurm]

When did GT5 ever lose the crown there sparky? and at the above person that said something about quality....which the makers of the red ringed behemoth know nothing about.......Polyphony Digital are the masters of the genre....all others are simply contenders....the quality and attention to detail in GT5 is unmatchable by anything MS can unload their deep pockets to pay for.

[gazgriff2k12]

its all a matter of opinion. ive heard no end of fans trash talking both games

[Aloren]

"Polyphony Digital are the masters of the genre....all others are simply contenders....the quality and attention to detail in GT5 is unmatchable by anything MS can unload their deep pockets to pay for."

Maybe you don't remember, but people said the same thing about PES a few years ago, and yet FIFA took over. Things change.

[YogiBear]

@ Aloren

You are a Forza defender. I will give you that. But let me ask you this, what the fuck has Turn 10 done for you that makes you blindly defend them at every turn. Other than charging you $60 for a game of course.

[frostyhat123]

When forza 3 came out, only ps3 fanboys like you disagree

[Aloren]

@Yogibear, actually, I'm not a forza defender, I don't even own forza 4 and I have no plans to get it. I also haven't played forza 3 in a long time. I just don't like lack of common sense.

Also, what is there even to disagree with in my previous statement regarding Fifa and PES ? things don't change ? I got 25 disagrees just cause I hinted maybe GT wasn't as far out of reach as some of you think.

And then you ask me what has Turn10 done to me ?
I could also ask you the same question. What has PD done to some of you, to just deny even the existence of competition ? to claim any argument showing Forza has made progress is biased ? that reviewers were paid or don't know what they're talking about ? that forza is for kids and Gt is for currently unemployed formula 1 pilots ? It's all about excuses...I'm not blindly defending anyone... what about you ?

Finally, I never claimed Forza was better, I'm just pointing out the situation is really different from what it was when Forza first came out.
You can twist it any way you want, forza still made a lot of progress, and is now a lot closer to GT. Whether it took the crown or not doesn't matter (not to me anyway), both are great. It's just strange to see people pretend only one is great and that "all others are simply contenders".

[MastaMold]

So opinions are facts now, the gaming media is getting retarded for hits

[StraightPath]

Ever since Forza 1 , the crown was taken. GT6 got alot to live upto and learn from forza.

As for most.funnest racer burnout paradise.

[stvn_k26]

hahahahahahahaha "GT6 got alot to live upto and learn from forza." hahahahaha I'm sorry, but I can't stop laughing. Now the king has to learn from the "wannabe" you really made my day dude!!

[HINDERIZATION]

most funnest?

[otherZinc]

This reviewer & site has my respect!

When BS sites like IGN & others hide behind "I didn't review that game", "I didn't review the 1st 2 games in the series", "I didn't review competing games"!

All that BS is coward like!

Like this guys/site score or not, you must respect them for not hiding his stance on the topic. Also, they give several comparisons, when other sites think we've never played games in our lives. Especially when theyre in their early 20's; please!

[Bon Scott]

forza has stomped the sh1t out of gt this gen.

Sony employees and fandweebs alike are hurt by this.

tsk tsk tsk
the reviews have spoken.

[morkendo23]

How can Gran Turismo ever take back the crown from Forza Motorsport?

TAKE BACK???? HAAAAAAA IS THIS GUY SERRRRRIOUS??
GT has been around since PS1 when was the CROWN taken?
I say depend on the gamer if they like REAL SIMULATION experience or ARCADE racing, to each his own.some say FORZA took the crown from GT...some say GT is king of simulation once again "to each his own" experiencing personal feeling for who's the best.

[showtimefolks]

Gt5 was better than forza 3
forza 4 is better than Gt5

Gt5 is missing some very cool community features

Gt5 got the sim racing aspect of the game and captured it in a perfect way

end of the day if each game from learn from the other and get better with each entry than i believe that's all we can ask for. But to trash one over the other is not right. For racing fans you get the best of both world by having both

maybe in Gt6 if PD can have 300-500 cars and just have more diverse and polished cars than we all will be happy, along with more active online community features

peace out enjoy

[WobblyOnion]

Stuff em both..I want a new (and good) PGR...something that's mostly arcade with some sim sensibilities (and that isn't NFS shift)

[Ognipode]

The problem is that NFS Shift wasn't trying to be arcadey. It's actually got so much potential but was destroyed because of the TERRIBLY twitchy controls that just spoiled the entire game.

[Yi-Long]

... but TBH, I really want a new GRID.

[Kurt Russell]

Yeah... GRID 2 would mean I don't have to read these pointless articles about racers I find a little bit dull :(

[GavinMannion]

I think you mean you want a new Burnout Paradise surely

[vishant101]

Paradise was an amazing game with only one problem it had no incentive to keep me playing it.

[ECM0NEY]

Burnout Paradise is still the best racer ever IMO

[JAMurida]

I want a new Sega GT. I remember getting the JSRF/Sega GT combo when I got my Xbox. THAT game was off the chain.

[christian hour]

@JAMurida same :D JSRF and Sega GT took up months of my time!

[vishant101]

Have u noticed how pgr elements are seeping into forza? like the challenge to pass a certain amount of cars is right out of pgr's book.

[IronFistChinMi]

True. I remember Microsoft were looking for a studio to develop PGR5, I wonder if they handed it to Turn 10 and they incorporated that feature for Forza.

It's gone quiet on the PGR front since those rumours, hopefully they've delayed an announcement for the next Xbox.

[The Meerkat]

Easy

Just imitate and improve.
The same way Forza has done it.

The competition should keep them both on their toes.

The same way the 360 has been good for the PS3 and vice versa.

[thereapersson]

I give you a "well-said" bubble for being the better man and not giving into temptation of trolling like all the rest.

[Apotheosize]

Dont make standard/premuim cars.

[Legion]

Exactly... I mean what was that even about??? They couldn't finish all the cars in HD so they threw in some standard model vehicles to bump up the car count???

[MasterCornholio]

This will mean that the devs will work their butts off to make GT better than Forza. I love competition.

XperiaRay