DVD Forum approves 51GB triple-layer HD DVD spec

Toshiba's been demoing a triple-layer hybrid HD DVD / DVD system for a couple years now, but it's been all unofficial until today, when the DVD Forum steering committee voted to approve the spec as part of the official HD DVD standard. The third 15GB layer bumps the total capacity of HD DVD up to 51GB, matching Blu-ray's 50GB disks. Of course, we wouldn't expect to see a flood of content on the new disks anytime soon, what with all those shiny new double-layer players getting sold right now, but it's interesting to see HD DVD step up in the one area Blu-ray was clearly superior. The stalemate continues!

[wil4hire]

So unlike the bluray players that were manufactured with the 100gb disc goal in mind..

You will have to buy a new HD-DVD player to support the 51gb vs firmware update for bluray players.

Yay.

[wAtdaFck]

Not trying to be rude, but can I get a link to your second statement?

[TheXgamerLive]

Ya gotta stop believing all the sony lies my friend. Your doing it on most every post now.

[fredy]

as if it makes a difference to you.

Hey if you declare HD-DVD dead then so be it. You should come out the rat hole after all is said and done.

Do know all that bought Stand alone Blu-Ray players are fn screwed since new features[HD-DVD already has] is coming to new gen BD players that are that will support ethernet ports..What do you say about that..eh

I still can't believe how sony got studies to support a hardware that is technically not yet finished or finalized, and lacking features.

Hey the war goes on..

[ActionBastard]

Ethernet is the only transportation method for firmware? Don't be a fool. Firmware updates can and more than likely will reside on the disc with the movie.

[akaFullMetal]

here ea689

http://www.engadgethd.com/2...

for your question to number two

and this
http://www.reghardware.co.u...

it seems like early adoptors wont be able to enjoy the new 51 gb discs

[AuburnTiger]

Your link sports nothing but speculation, hopes and wishing. There is no answer for that second question.

[fredy]

The changes, agreed by the Blu-ray Association, mean that from October 31 all players should include full support for Blu-ray Java, the language high definition players use to control all menus, navigation and special features such as picture-in-picture (PIP).

Some of today's models can be upgraded through firmware both others lack the 256MB non-volatile memory needed to store the full program.

Additionally, players with an internet connection must have 1GB of memory for storing and buffering online content. The Playstation 3, which can be used as a Blu-ray player, doesn't currently support all aspects of Blu-ray Java, but its large hard disk should make it easy to upgrade.

No Blu-ray movies currently have PIP features, HD DVDs have had mandatory PIP support.

HD-DVD was finalized and was ready to go. BD was not.
http://www.gamerawr.com/200...

[enzobot24]

Both Crank and The Descent have PIP.

Don't believe me? Look it up.

[fredy]

"(neither are true profile 1.1 PiP)"

Look it up..

[enzobot24]

I'm well aware that they aren't true PIP, just a separate film with a video box in the corner....

So what? It's still technically PIP. Wow, the end result is the same ( a box in the corner).... but I guess true PIP is better.

[hokis4ever]

Truthfully i have never been the best at math, but i can add/multiply. Can someone explain to me how this works?

15+15+15 = 45
or 15x3 = 45.

Where does the extra 6 gigs come from?

edit: before anyone gets defensive, it's an honest question...

[LoydX-mas]

They have pushed the capacity of each layer to 17 gigs.
This is why the triple-layer Twin format will have 5 gigs of SD DVD and 34 gigs of HD-DVD.

[hokis4ever]

Ahh, makes sense then 2.1! Thanks for the response!!!

[blackmagic]

The 3 layer 45 gig disc was finalized some time ago. The 1st gen players were not built to properly read the 3rd layer but it has never been stated whether 2nd or 3rd gen players are capable(they were designed and built after the 3 layer 45 gb standard was approved).

Edit: found the link with Jim Armour where he discusses the 3 layer 45gb being read on hardware. "Jim Armour, Toshiba: Yeah, I think second or third generation hardware - fine, but not first-generation products."
http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/c...

[KINGDRAMA]

LOL. dont get your hopes up hddvd supporters.

All sony has to do is add a 3rd layer and bd will once again have more storage space...

then hddvd will drop a quad layer FOLLOWED BY A QUAD BD DISK ....once again making the bd disc superior

GAME OVER HDDVD.

[bym051d]

It's almost like the Gillette vs. Schick razor blade wars. 2 blades, then 3 blades, then 4 blades, and now 5 f'n blades...

[hahahabutt]

Sony has been working hard to make a 100 gig disc but it seems that it is no where near possible yet, to much complications. When i find the source again I will post it. Toshiba and NEC already called them out on that one.

[ActionBastard]

"DVD Forum approves 51GB triple-layer HD DVD spec"...and it still won't help.

[ruibing]

So it just managed to catch up to Blu Ray. In the meantime, Blu Ray has been focusing on 100GB quad-layer that is compatible players as well as cheap organic died Blu Ray recordable discs.

@Below - Where did you read that? From what I've read they simply allow for mass, low cost production of Blu Ray recordables. I've only read that current Blu Ray writers can't write to these unless they have a special firmware update.

http://www.itnews.it/2007/1...
http://www.cdrlabs.com/news...

[LoydX-mas]

That only Blu-ray recorders and possibly the PS3 will be able to read these discs.

[OmegaKulu]

who cares... its not going to be used in movies or gaming anytime soon.

[jaja1434]

Hmm the BR fanboys because well I have no idea why they would care but they do. And the HD fanboys because now when one of the said BR fanboys says "inferior" the HD guys can go "umm how"?

[Marty8370]

Too little far too late for HD DVD. Blu-ray will always have the storage advantage as it has 25Gb per layer, compared too HD DVD 17Gb per layer.

Blu-ray has 25Gb = 1 layer, 50Gb = 2 layers, 100Gb = 4 layers, 200Gb = 8 layers.

HD DVD has 15Gb = 1 layer, 30Gb = 2 layers, 51Gb = 3 layers.

P L A Y B 3 Y O N D

[jaja1434]

Holographic Disc. 1.6TB
They both lose...

[OmegaKulu]

lets hope Holographic Disc will be mass produced and affordable... problem is, if the industry decide not to invest in it, then we are stuck with BD and HD-DVDs =P

[jaja1434]

Well the 100gig ones cost about 100$ right now which is really to far off what DVD's and the like cost when they first came out.

[Antiomo]

Will have to upgrade to get the extra capacity used LOL.

And yes it has been stated that current players WILL NOT support the triple layer of 51 gb's .

It's too late to make 51 gb mainstream..... If they start introducing movies with the 51gb's They will have to START all over selling compatible players.

[hahahabutt]

Firmware update is all that is needed. Sony said that HD-DVD owners will need a new player to support the 51 gig HD-DVD (maybe cuz that is what is happening with those 100 gig layer blu-ray discs)... The enemy of HD-DVD said that. DVD forum says different, that all is needed is a firmware update. I'll find the source.

[ravinash]

The research in to creating multi layer disks, you have to refine the laser to read through the other layers.
If it were as easy as changing the software, I'm sure they would have done that by now.
Its a hardware issue that they have to over come in order to do this.
You might be able to get away with 2nd layer with a firmware upgrade, but anything more I'd expect you have to get a better laser, so I don't think those $99 HD-DVD players would be up to the job if their so cheap.
This is the same problem for both HD-DVD & BlueRay.

[aliveinboston]

Sorry folks. This HD-DVD disc, which hasn't even been shown to be manufacturable, is not just a "firmware upgrade" away from your HD-DVD players. This new disc uses the same laser but requires a different kind of pickup.

[Marty8370]

Quote:
What's unclear at this stage is whether today's HD DVD drives and players will be able to read the new disc. However, with such a small number of HD DVD devices out there - relative to DVD players - only a limited number of early adopters are likely to be affected, and these are the kind of folk who are generally happy to upgrade in any case.

http://www.reghardware.co.u...

P L A Y B 3 Y O N D

[ravinash]

Thank you for your support, now bend over because we're about to screw you.

[Gordii]

I expect to hear a counter fire from Blueray....
They might go into over kill and release the 200gig CD
Thats right HD-DVD and Blu Ray keep fighting so i can finally get a 600G disc yes my children.... Full backup of the hardrive yes please.

[joydestroy]

haha

[demolitionX]

u guys are pathetic!!! HD DVD offer less than BDs and u still try to convince yourselves!!! Go get a life bunch of losers! I will be laughing at u when u go buy a new player...

[ApocalypseShadow]

the answer to the above question:
http://digg.com/playstation...
http://www.tgdaily.com/cont...

so no matter how fanboys want to spin it,bluray will always hold more.hitachi is ready to drop their 100gig.and working on 200gig.and still work for current players.

25-50-100-200.hit the links.it says it in black and white.

without more manufactures making hd-dvd players and tech,bluray will always be one step ahead.51gig is nice,but why when the competition's disc is sold for less but holds more?might cost more to make,but still costs less than hd-dvd when you buy it.

mag lev...................

[Marty8370]

First Holographic players cost like $30,000. And the 200Gb HVD media will be available for around US $80-100. Hardly affordable.

P L A Y B 3 Y O N D

[Bladestar]

Yes, it's true that blu-ray can continue to add more layers and space.. and HD DVD could probably push more layers... but do you think the movie industry (which will determine which format wins) needs or care about more than 51GB... why would they need more?

[Marty8370]

A 50Gb Blu-ray disc can only hold little over 9 hours of high-definition (HD) video. Hi Def video take up lots of room, thats why higher capacity disc's are needed.

P L A Y B 3 Y O N D

[The Dark Knight]

i love it how to say play beyond, worst gimic line ever by a buch of retards, i be you go to school and go PLAY BEYOND and think your the cool people of the groups aahahahha

[Baron79]

This is awsome news for HD-DVD. Another step in the right direction. Blueray loses one of it ONLY advantages. All HD-DVD players will be able to read these.

[Marty8370]

Early HD DVD adopters get screwed......
Quote:
What's unclear at this stage is whether today's HD DVD drives and players will be able to read the new disc. However, with such a small number of HD DVD devices out there - relative to DVD players - only a limited number of early adopters are likely to be affected, and these are the kind of folk who are generally happy to upgrade in any case.

http://www.reghardware.co.u...

P L A Y B 3 Y O N D

Bubbles plz...............

[Baron79]

All signs point to a firmware upgrade ,if anything is all that would be needed. I don't think Toshiba would make their customers buy a new player. They wouldn't want to be like Sony.

[Zeevious]

1 extra gigabyte, 1.1 profile, all may or may not be compatible with current players, or if not...a "who cares they'll all upgrade" attitude?

Who cares...oh yeah exactly, who cares about the CONSUMERS that are currently being swung back and forth like a hi-def YO'YO'

If the PS3 didn't come standard with Blu-Ray I wouldn't have a Blu-Ray player, any more than if the 360 came with HD-DVD standard.

WHY?

Because, EVERYONE...We're all being jerked around by ALL the companies...with no regard whatsoever for the format war's effects on each and every one of us:
One must-see flick on one format, another on another...and ferocious fans fighting over pretty much the same MP4, VC1 or similar quality video...Pitted against each other by the very companies selling you the high-definition future.

Sure one format is pure 1080p, lossless audio...Sure another had more interactive support with a final-spec out of the box...
Sure, we're all being yanked like a 3-legged entry from Best in Show, while the market is so full of Fear Uncertainty & Doubt that we'll have universal hi-def downloads before a universal format.

Dump-em both, get a decent upconverting DVD player for anyting less than a 65" screen, and WAIT THE WAR OUT! (You may notice hi-def above 60+ inches vs an upconverted DVD...or you may not.)

Take the POWER back that we each have, and show $ony, M$, To$iba and anyone else that format wars do nothing but hurt us...

It's the holidays, in the spirit of giving, give the hurt right back by keeping those hi-def $$$ in your bank where they belong...

Until the player play's some new format by To$hony$oft, why bother till it's all over?

[bootsielon]

Blu-ray supports 200GB of space.

[Mars Attacker]

If they knew for sure that the 51 GB disks were compatible with current/older players, don't you think they would go out of their way to stress this point? Seems like they are hiding something!

This extra space is critical. The 30GB disk was not large enough to support lossless sound on the Transformers HD DVD. 51 GB should ensure that future movies won't have similar compromises. More than 51 gig is not needed (for movie disks at least).

Data backup is not an issue here. With 720 GB USB2 drives so cheap no one uses optical disks to backup large systems anyway. Most people I know still burn CD's and/or single layer DVDs and haven't even moved on to DL DVDs yet.

Anyone know what generation the 360's HD DVD drive is?