Treating consoles and PC as equals was “one of the biggest mistakes I made in this generation,” John Carmack has admitted, and says that he would develop RAGE “very differently” for consoles now.
I'm sorry I think the guy is a genius and his games are amazing but all this talk about the PC and how console don't live up to them is getting ridiculous consoles will never be as powerful as the PC, we all know this. Consoles are consoles because it's something we don't need to waste a crap load of money on for the actually thing and keep updating it like the PC.
Console gaming is actually alot more expensive then PC.
A PC that will outperform console will cost you about 500-600usd, thats about a 200-300usd Difference, this can easily be overcome in 1 Steam or D2D discount. Not to mention later on every console game costs more, also PC does alot more things then just play games.
Lastly the PC needing constant upgrades is a myth. That was true back in 2000 when games actually progressed in terms of graphics. Now a days games are made with 6 yr old console hardware in mind. Hence a PC doesnt need to be upgrade to play those games. Unless its some PC exclusive game and you want to play it maxed out.
Here we go again the ongoing console vs PC argument. Before this goes any further, yes PC's are capable of running higher res etc. etc. And like anything you get what you pay for.
Now as for Carmack is this guy retarded? How could he be so naive to think consoles could ever keep up with pc's, they are outdated weeks after they release but that doesn't mean there won't be good games for consoles but the perfomance is never going to keep up with a pc.
"Console gaming is actually alot more expensive then PC."
That depends on the individual. For example downloading games on Steam isnt an option for me since my broadband is SO slow - took 4hrs to download MW2 map pack :(
And also a PC does need upgrading at some point. Upgrading console vs PC, i think console wins since it comes as a system. For PC it's Gpu, CPU, OS, Ram, etc. But I think if you're a gamer you should play over all platforms and not worry about graphics or resolution all the time.
Not to mention the fact you can just plug your PC into your tv via hdmi and play it as if it was a console if sitting at your desk with keyboard/mouse isn't your thing.
PC gaming is just better in every way, but consoles are still awesome and have some pretty cool exclusives.
PC may need an upgrade in about 4years time by which time the console may be dead too. At which point you may need to buy a replacement console. However on PC you have other options.
Imagine someone bought a core 2 PC 4 years back. They could simply overclock the CPU, upgrade to a new GPU (about 150usd which is cheaper then getting a replacement console).
Now the replacement console will perform just like the one you orginally bought 4 years back. However PC with a new GPU at 150usd will surely outperform whatever you bought for EVEN 250usd 4 years back.
Also do not forget if in 4 years time the console fails you will need to rebuy the entire unit, there is hardly anything like repairs. On PC if you dont want to upgrade and it does fail you could simply replace the part that went bad which again is cheaper then getting a new console.
Which is why i think PC gaming is cheaper in the long run. Lets not forget a console like xbox also requires you to pay online charges which adds up in 4 years time, making xbox the most expensive platform to game on, PS3 second, PC being the cheapestl.
Its true but depends how many games X person buys for Y platform:
Some rough calculations:
Average console price mid cycleish $300
10 games at 60$ a go $600
and then any accessories on top of that your looking at 1000$ their.
With PCs its different because it depends what parts you have available to you and if your starting from scratch or not. e.g. you can recycle your Hard Drives , DVD Drives etc etc
For me personally my new PC tower 1.5 years ago cost just under £700:
I7 920 @ 4GHZ 6GB DDR3 1GB ATI HD 5870
So in the end it starts to look about the same in the long run if you take steam games into account which are like what £30 for the latest games and then awesome sales on top with games in the region of £5 - £20 + massive game packs.
Meaning you need to spend less on games compared to the console.
Carmack didn't believe in Digital Distribution. He truly believed the reason pc retail sales were going down was because of piracy.
When Rage was announced ID even went as far as to reaffirm everyone that it was not going to be released digitally.
This is the result. I basically already said a few weeks ago that the biggest mistake Carmack made in his gaming career was letting the DD parade go on right past his window and he had no idea it happened.
Well when the consoles launched they had the current video cards in them that havent released yet. But as you know new GPU's come out every year so now console is 6 years behind pc. Consoles are so far behind at this point a 69 dollar graphics card greatly outperforms the ones in Xbox and ps3 by 4 times.
It's no-one's fault other than Carmack's if he thought that. Consoles will never be as powerful as many PCs because consoles are about marketable affordable cost-effectiveness.
But they've always had decent graphics. No one cares if "ATI-FTW-3278438" thinks that 720p30fps is what calculators run on. It works great with most people and the hardware required stays within somewhat-above average household budgets, if not exceeding such.
@reed "Am I the only one thinking that this was very obvious even *gasp* before Carmack said it" - LOL, of course not! It's not official until Mr. Universe Programmer 1993 says so! /s
The only reason I built a new pc in under 4 years was because my GPU started dying and I didn't have the receipt to warranty it anymore... Good job me ha! I had a lifetime warranty on it... I figured well, might as well go to quad core and then it was new mobo... I went totally overkill at maybe $1200. NOT $2000.
All the GFX cards even the budget ones will handle the top PC games easy, these days.
Too many games are geared for the console so on a PC the game just seems like a poorly made one compared to the old PC only games.
You end up paying less for the PC version anyway probably because they know it's not quite good on the PC so figure it;s not worth the money as the consoles.
Thats the funny part PC version is usually superior, yet its cheaper. Unless they severly butcher a console port PC version always turns out better.
GTA 4 is an example of a bad port, but look at it now. It got fixed in about a month of release with patches. However now the modding community has really made the game what it should have been.
"Console gaming is actually alot more expensive then PC."
You know I always find it funny when people say that. And the reason I find it funny is because pricing is always dictated by the market's demand and what people are willing to accept.
If you went point for point, PC and console gaming are pretty even in pricing, with each having their bargains in different areas.
But don't think for one minute if PC gaming were the mainstream choice of gaming entertainment that the price of games would stay cheap.
It's a fact that console gaming is more lucrative than PC gaming, and publishers know they can get away with ridiculous pricing schemes because consoles are infinitely more convenient than PC's and have a more content demanding market as well. But the moment that shifts, expect the price of PC gaming to be just as bad, if not worse, than what any pro-PC individual thinks of console gaming.
Lets take a look at one of the largest publishers financial report EA raked in:
PC: 154m USD xbox 360: 151m USD ps3: 110m USD
Activision still claim 60% of their earnings are from the PC(most of that is due to Wow).
Valve, sell over a billion usd on Steam.
Point being PC is selling as good or better then any single console. Hence there is demand for PC games just as good as any console which is why PC has gotten so many exclusives this year.
Game prices are simply lower on PC because, MS and Sony dont get a cut. Hence its a win win situation for the publishers and the gamers.
Personally in my group of friends hardly anyone games on consoles, its about 5 of us. 2 of us own consoles though most of our time is on the PC.
@Ranshak: If what you're saying is true, then explain why the vast majority of major game exclusives are NOT on PC but on consoles? Explain why the gaming industries focus is on consoles by and large and NOT on PC's? There are so many points that invalidate what you say and still work to my point.
You focused on the two largest multiplatform publishers and one almost exclusive PC developer who created their own PC distribution network. Why don't you dig deeper and include some more and see that PC is not performing on the level of consoles in a market sense.
**EDIT** And let's not forget that companies like EA and Activision buy small companies that make Facebook games, etc.. Take a look at the more major games and then compare.
@DK "If what you're saying is true, then explain why the vast majority of major game exclusives are NOT on PC but on consoles?"
... because exclusives are an issue to console manufacturers. They have to push their console over their competitor, and one way of doing that is by funding projects exclusive to their platform.
A platform exclusive on console usually means there's an agreement/contract that is keeping the game exclusive. A PC exclusives means that the game can't run on consoles, either due to the console hardware not being up to par, or the developpers not having the necessary resources.
When a multiplatform game comes to PC, the developers often try to add in extra things to make PC players happy (such as the recent DeusEx game which supports DX11). Why would they go through all the effort if there was no significant monetary reward?
Anyways, it isn't really all that relevant. At the end of the day, I'm pre-ordering games for $32 which would be $60 on consoles, and that's what matters to me.
"... because exclusives are an issue to console manufacturers. They have to push their console over their competitor, and one way of doing that is by funding projects exclusive to their platform."
They are an issue to gaming as a business period. If an excellent game is exclusive to a console, that's one less reason a person has to game on a PC. There are more major exclusive console games you'll never see on a PC than vice versa. PC has a sh*t ton of games, no doubt, but looking at recent development will show you that major studios make more console games than PC games. Less reason to game on a PC due to less exclusive content is a real issue.
"A platform exclusive on console usually means there's an agreement/contract that is keeping the game exclusive. A PC exclusives means that the game can't run on consoles, either due to the console hardware not being up to par, or the developpers not having the necessary resources."
No. A PC exclusive literally means it's exclusive to PC only because that's what the developer wants. There is no game on the PC right now that CAN'T be run on a current console. It's all up to what the devs are willing to do. Your argument is PC quality vs. Console quality. And while PC has the edge, a console version would not be unplayable even if you were to port a max setting PC game to a console. Some cuts have to be made, but to suggest a PC game CAN'T be played on a console is just naive.
"When a multiplatform game comes to PC, the developers often try to add in extra things to make PC players happy (such as the recent DeusEx game which supports DX11). Why would they go through all the effort if there was no significant monetary reward?"
Because PC gamers whine, and they have to be enticed. Devs want money, but a major problem for PC gaming is piracy and other issues that hinder profit margins compared to consoles. It's far easier to pirate PC games than console games, so SOMETHING has to be done to entice people to actually BUY the game, instead of pirating it. And when you see an outrage over "Press Start Button to begin" you know that the PC audience will whine, and b*tch, and moan at devs constantly. Some devs just give in.
"Anyways, it isn't really all that relevant. At the end of the day, I'm pre-ordering games for $32 which would be $60 on consoles, and that's what matters to me."
And the list of those games you can pre-order that are console games appearing on the PC is minute compared to the list of games I can play on my console that you'll never see on PC. So, it's moot.
dumbest argument in the history of gaming is that the pc is "too expensive". Seriously, anybody who uses the term 'gamer' to describe themselves probably puts 10 hours a week into gaming if not more. To put that into perspective, imagine doing a 10 hour gaming session every single day for TWO HUNDRED AND SIXTY DAYS STRAIGHT! That's how much gaming we are talking about in a five year period.
cost: ps3 $600, 360 $400, two pc builds $1500 So, for $500 a year on average, you have access to the 3 most advanced gaming platforms at all times.
PC actually has more AAA exclusives then Xbox 360 this year, maybe just as many as the PS3. I dont get your thing about PC not having exclusives.
Following games were released as exclusives to PC this year:
Witcher 2, Shogun 2, Dawn of war 2 retribution, Red orchestra 2, dota 2.
BF3 will be like an exclusives because console version is vastly dumbed down port. I dont see how the industry isnt focusing on pc, even though PC has no company funding exclusives.
Combine the indie scene and PC actually has more exclusives then any console games like Amnesia, Magika etc
Plus every multiplat out there is superior on PC.
AAA games like Witcher 2 could be purcahsed at launch for 36usd, D2D had a discount few weeks after launch where they priced the game down to 33usd. (let meknow ifyou can currently preorder UC3 for 36usd).
An awesome game like Red orchestra 2 is up for sale at 35usd pre order price.
This may be true to those who don't shop around, and pay full price. I use supermarkets etc and can get great deals on console games, even on launch day. MoH cost £28, Blops £25, MW2 £32,(all launch day), was £26 in one shop but sold out by time I got there.
Also after a few months of game been out, can get console games less than half price, around £20. Just need to shop around.
Waiting will only bring things further in the PCs favor. Because 3-4weeks after launch most games are already in extreme discounts at Steam or D2D (no way any retailer can compete with those sort of discounts on console). While the console version may drop a bit in 2-3 months time, Waiting game just plays more in favor of the PC.
Reason console gaming is expensive because Sony and MS have to get their cut. You should check out Steam and the rest of the DD network sometime around the holidays you will get what i mean. Console prices will look like a rip off then.
In some places around the work console games can cost as much as 70usd at launch. Here in the middle east console games tend to cost as much as 80usd and their prices dont fall at all. Hence Steam along with PC gaming is a much cheaper alternative.
***They are an issue to gaming as a business period.***
Really?
***If an excellent game is exclusive to a console, that's one less reason a person has to game on a PC.***
Really? An exclusive is one less reason to own a competing platform?
I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people buy into platform due to the overall package, not because of a few exclusive games. Otherwise, everybody would have bought a Nintendo Wii especially or PS3 by now and left PC and Xbox 360 all alone....
***No. A PC exclusive literally means it's exclusive to PC only because that's what the developer wants. There is no game on the PC right now that CAN'T be run on a current console. It's all up to what the devs are willing to do. Your argument is PC quality vs. Console quality. And while PC has the edge, a console version would not be unplayable even if you were to port a max setting PC game to a console. Some cuts have to be made, but to suggest a PC game CAN'T be played on a console is just naive.***
Can and can't isn't really important. After all consoles are a stripped down computer, so it isn't suprising then that a stripped down game will work on it. In fact, any game can run on the NES as long as you strip it down enough!
The importance really is do people want that experience?
If you look at games like StarCraft 2, those games are doable on consoles albeit stripped down in graphics and controls, but I doubt people would really take to it. A good example of that is Halo Wars, a decent RTS that didn't sell all that great. The controlls were good on consoles, but it is so much better on PC.
***Devs want money, but a major problem for PC gaming is piracy and other issues that hinder profit margins compared to consoles.***
Piracy is a problem, but let's face it, it also affects consoles and handhelds. The Nintedo DS had major piracy problems and games still sold well. If you are talking about profit margin per unit, then there is more room to grow for PC without console tax. If you are talking about as a whole, it scales with market size so that is a moot point.
Also, you answered this yourself:
***You know I always find it funny when people say that. And the reason I find it funny is because pricing is always dictated by the market's demand and what people are willing to accept.***
It's true, we don't need to hear this anymore! I don't need to hear that my PSP/DS isn't as powerful as my PS3/360 and I don't need to hear this!
If it bothers you so much, just make a completely different game on PC, like they do with the portables. No body makes ports to the DS or mobile phones for that matter from consoles, they just make another game.
Obviously there's no market for separate versions of games for every platform, so please stop crying about it!
Right we get it Carmack you love the PC.
I'm sorry I think the guy is a genius and his games are amazing but all this talk about the PC and how console don't live up to them is getting ridiculous consoles will never be as powerful as the PC, we all know this. Consoles are consoles because it's something we don't need to waste a crap load of money on for the actually thing and keep updating it like the PC.