Source Engine is “long in the tooth,” say Epic, pitches Unreal to indie devs

Yesterday, Epic rounded off the two day Unreal University event in London, offering a day of free seminars to students and enthusiasts looking to make new games using the free Unreal Development Kit. PC Gamer sat down with with technical artist and level designer Alan Willard and Epic’s European territory manager, Mike Gamble for a chat about the popularity of the UDK among fledgeling developers, and how it stacks up against popular competitors like Valve’s Source SDK. Their verdict: Source is “long in the tooth.”

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BeastlyRig2679d ago (Edited 2679d ago )

Time for some bulky space marine, plastic, shiny skinned platformers!

I really hope next gen there will be less middleware used & more companies building there own engine..

And Epic needs to stop acting like they support pc gamers or something.. Why would pc gamer talk to them as if they made many game this gen for pc? I would tell them to haul ass and go make a 360 game..

NovusTerminus2679d ago

I hope the next gen is less middle ware too. Companies need their own engines to work with.

But for small studios who cannot make an entire engine, the UDK is great. I have it, and it works good.

Baka-akaB2679d ago

next gen will have even more it seems actually . But at least a trend is showing up . Look at Capcom , konami , bethesda , and a few other big publishers ... It seems that they now will stick to their own engine across games , at leas for most project , rather than pushing small in house unique owns and using by default the likes of UE3 .

Grip2679d ago

i just want to ask.. is Unreal Development Kit Friendly use? and easy To dev on it?

bozebo2679d ago

It's the easiest out there. Unless you are a programmer, in which case you will HATE it.

Grip2679d ago

No im not programmer, i just want to goofing with the Kit... Thank u

iamtehpwn2679d ago (Edited 2679d ago )

Bozebo, that's completely untrue, many programmers, including myself, love it. Scripting is still *highly* required It's the same UE3 minus the direct C++ source (which you don't really need).

Take a Look at my UDK game work in progress. (Test graphics used, models are merely place holders)

A PC and iOS multiplatform game Action Adventure game. This is only about roughly one month's worth of work. The Engine is incredibly nice, and after using it, I understand why so many developers license UE3. It makes development a lot easier.

bozebo2679d ago (Edited 2679d ago )

Some good points coming out here.

But yeah. My main issue with the UDK is that it has updated the input system and it now causes horrible issues with high DPI mice because they use the windows cursor rather than the raw mouse hardware input... Which is the worst decision ever because it causes 'negative acceleration' unless you are gaming at a very high res (2650x1600 or above).

It probably came around when they changed the input to better support motion devices or something, and whoever programmed it was ignorant to PC requirements - and should be promptly fired for not being able to do their job properly.

Basically, I will not be able to play any unreal engine game ever again because low sensitivities with a high dpi causes jittery input. But its up to them if they want to alienate a portion of the PC gaming market and lose sales.

If you go on the steam forums there are loads of threads by people who don't understand the root of the problem and are blaming the developer for bad mouse controls. (bioshock, mass effect and bulletstorm boards).

bumnut2679d ago

Arkham Asylum used unreal engine and that looked great. Nothing wrong with the engine in the right hands.

TheIneffableBob2679d ago

Nope, from here on forth middleware usage will keep going up.

Hardware and games have gotten too complex for a single studio to create every set of tools needed. Even a team of 400 will have to get outside help if they wanted to create a game on the scope of Assassin's Creed or Grand Theft Auto.

Middleware usage among indie devs will especially go up if they're trying to make a Hawken instead of a Terraria.

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solar2679d ago (Edited 2679d ago )

The Source Engine runs great. and Valve supports modders far superior than Epic.

BubbleSniper2679d ago

There are modders out there that put Epic to shame. Not to mention the modders who had HD textures in Crysis 2 before Crytek came out with the official patch.

lil Titan2679d ago

unreal engine sucks and is being over used this gen. i would rather developers use other engines like the id tech 5, or the new FOX engine to be released. crytek engine doesnt look bad, DICE frostbite 2.0 just anything except unreal even if it means making there own from the ground up and some of those engines i know it depends on if the main developers if they will let other developers use there engines. but they need to use something different but it seems nowadays its all about the money and not the art of telling a story even the gameplay isnt anything special anymore witch is funny since people back in the 80's where limited to the tech but now there should be now excuse why this game plays like that game "BE ORIGINAL"

bozebo2679d ago (Edited 2679d ago )

I prefer source. The editor is easier to use and the engine itself is considerably more efficient, also it has far superior AI controls.

UDK is so damn bloated and it is designed for Artists, not developers. Also, by default every UDK game feels the same, it takes a lot of work to give it a "feel"; ie, you have to go into the low level and modify the classes and methods of the engine - which is what they are trying to say is wrong with source.

In short, most of the people drawn to UDK have no idea how to actually make a game. Whereas programmers are drawn to Source, so there are more Source games actually made.

ATiElite2679d ago (Edited 2679d ago )

Source wins every time.

1. Epic's Unreal engine is really crappy and only good for making 360 games.

2. Epic has virtually no PC support where as Valve is PC Gaming.

3. Great Source modders have been hired by Valve where as Epic is all about promoting Cliffy B

4. Source has better textures, A.I., and Physics than the Unreal Engine which basically everything looks like plastic coated play-Doh.

5. The Source is easier to work with.

bumnut2679d ago (Edited 2679d ago )

Not sure I agree with you:

1. Arkham Asylum used unreal and looked amazing on pc in 3d.

2. Kind of agree

3. Agree

4. Don't agree with this one, there are bad looking games running on both engines.

5. No idea because im not a developer

Source engine is getting old though, can't wait to see what the next one is capable of.

iamtehpwn2679d ago

1. That's not true. I'm currently using Unreal Engine to develop an iOS game

2. Unreal Engine is designed be very multiplatform, this is up to the developers

3. This is true, Valve does get the good guys.

4. This is not true at all. In fact, look at Lost Odyssey. What the game looks like is up to the artists

5. This definitely isn't true (I have development experience). Let me just say that my community college teaches game development courses. They used to use Source Engine and switched to Unreal and many of the professors there have been in the game industry for a while and it was their decision to do so.

TheIneffableBob2679d ago

I like Source but it is OLD.

1. No. UE3 has a bunch of people dedicated to improving the engine. It has the latest technologies and well-updated tools and supports many platforms.

2. UE3 supports PC. It was updated a few months back to support DX11.

3. Yes, I feel that Valve have been better with the community, but not necessarily in respects to modding. They do hire modders but the tools they give aren't that great. Epic had the 'Make Something Unreal' contests but they haven't done one of those in a while.

4. Better textures? No. Better AI? Doubt it. Better physics? No. Have you seen the PhysX APEX engine in UE3?

5. Definitely no. The tools in Source that are given to modders are antiquated and not easy to work with at all. I don't know about their in-house tools, but their public tools are definitely archaic. Unreal Engine 3, on the other hand, has intuitive tools that make development much easier.

Valve is my favorite company and they make my favorite games, but their engine is very old--it's based off of Quake 1.

ATiElite2679d ago

lots of disagrees and friendly opinions to back up disagrees. great debate!

I'm gonna stick with the Source Engine. It may be long in the tooth but Portal 2 looks just as good or better than any unreal engine game out there.

and keep in mind that Portal 2 does not contain all the post processing effects and physics that Valve has been adding for preparation of episode 3.

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