Blu-ray Profile 1.1 makes existing players obsolete?

October 31, 2007 was the official end of the "grace period" for Blu-ray manufacturers, after which all players released must comply with the latest standard--Blu-ray Profile 1.1 (also known as Final Standard Profile and BD-Video Profile 1.1). Of course, that doesn't mean Profile 1.0 Blu-ray players still can't be sold, and if you walk into your local electronics store over the next few months, you're likely to see both Profile 1.0 and Profile 1.1 Blu-ray players on the shelf.

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Mars Attacker4002d ago

Blu-Ray standard is nowhere near final.
Current HD DVD players won't be compatible with the MUCH NEEDED 51 gig disks.

Both formats have their problems. Consumers are the big losers here. No wonder so few are buying in to either format.

Mr Marbles4002d ago (Edited 4002d ago )

HDDVD players ALL have ehternet ports, they will ALL be capable of getting the updates to run 51GB disks. Bluray is the unfinished format, that is common knowledge for all non fanboy zombies.

You loose if you have an original (except PS3) bluray player, you will get none of the new features and specs that bluray will one day offer when the format is complete. Toshiba forced Sony to rush out a platform and it was unfinished, everyone knows this and it is really not news.

PumPum4002d ago

I doubt u can download hardware trough those ethernet ports. Whats the use with the firmware update if the hardware sucks?

BrianC62344002d ago

I hope anyone buying a Blu-ray player sees this and buys a PS3. It seems to be the best way to watch Blu-ray movies and to be able to keep upgrading in the future. Too bad they didn't include an Ethernet port in spec 1.0. That isn't hard to include and just makes upgrades a lot easier.

cuco334002d ago (Edited 4002d ago )

Marbles, don't assume too much. There is no final word that the TL51 disks will work on current HD DVD players but note that Toshiba WILL NOT release it if it is not backwards compatible with ALL HD DVD players. Last I heard they were working out the details so we can assume the TL51 disks will come eventually.

Sadly, BDA made it seem like the profiles were going to be this great thing (and be on par with HD DVD) but as they got closer to the 1.1 deadline date they seemed to be more relaxed. Sony themselves certified one of their players to 1.0 spec just DAYS before the deadline. Makes you wonder how serious they are about it. When it is a norm, it'll be sad to hear how re-releases of current BD titles that have 1.1 (and 2.0) features. That is how BD is in a worse position than HD DVD. Both have their ups and downs, but BD surely has more negatives about it.

As for Pumpum, software/firmware upgrades are down via CD update or Ethernet port, not hardware. They can read the TL51 disks via current hardware due to how the focal points to read a dual layer is done. Likewise, and here's what will piss off a ton of BD and PS3 fanboys, Blu-ray CAN play HD DVD disks, via a firmware upgrade, but not the other way around specifically due to how the lasers focal points read the data on the disk (BD is ahead of DVD and HD DVD layers and plays BD and DVD, being HD DVD is between... ;) )

& to Brian, I agree. PS3 should be the only BD player of choice (aside from the new Panasonic 1.1 compliant player but the value is STILL for the PS3)... which makes many believe that Blu-ray is UMD2.0 :O

Silver Bull3t4001d ago

Hey man if you're right about BD players technically being able to play HD-DVD then THAT should have it's own news release!

If there was a hack somewhere and I could flash the PS3 to read all formats I'd pick one up in a heartbeat!!! Now THAT would be interesting. Sony wouldn't be able to churn them out fast enough... Very interesting indeed.

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Bathyj4002d ago

So HDDVD had it right all along and yet only 2 movies have PIP. WOW, thats worth supporting a dead format for.

Are you guys sure firmware will allow the 51 GB to play? Not sure about that but could be.

Luckily most BR player can be upgraded because they're PS3's.

ravinash4001d ago

with layering, and for a HD-DVD or BD player to read this, it needs the latest laser. Firmware updates will not help.
But in the area of films and movies which is the main thing these players are used for, it will always be the same amount of data for a HD film, so there will be no need to use the bigger disks for movie sales. So in the area of home entertainment players, its really besides the point.
The extra that the firmware updates give like picture in picture are nice, but as long as the player can still play the film, the player is still doing the job you paid for it to do.

Silvia0074002d ago

What's so great about PIP? Other then a distraction from the main movie, it really serves no purpose. Even if movies have it and my PS3 will support it, how would it benefit me. I'm just not seeing it.

godofthunder104002d ago

it's not good while watching the movie for the the first time but if you want to get into making movies in any kind of way then it's good,for exsample you could put on the movie after watching it the first time and put on pip and they will show you and tell you what they did and how for the scene you are watching,so really it's good to teach people how movies are made and that's why it's good but it's not really ment to watch while you watch the movie it's ment for to really show people how they did certain scenes like a teacher and if you do decide to get into making movies you will understand a lot before you even go to school and on top of that i like to learn how they did certain scenes in a movie and i'm just a regular guy who will never go to school to learn to make movies but it's fun to learn how they made the scenes.

BrianC62344002d ago

In fact, a lot of times I buy a special edition version of a DVD and don't get around to the extras. I mostly want the movies. I like having the ability to watch the uncut or new endings too. I don't really care about things like PIP. I guess it's mostly just a way to market to people. It looks like some great feature.

DVDs had the ability to move around in a movie and see different angles but only if the movie supported it. Did any movies ever do that though?

Silvia0074001d ago

Why would anyone disagree with me. I was asking a question. Man, I wonder sometimes about the users here.

Marty83704002d ago (Edited 4002d ago )

51Gb HD DVD media won't play on exsisting HD DVD hardware. Even if it was compatible Blu-ray will always be one step ahead of HD DVD in terms of storage. Blu-ray does 50Gb using Dual Layer, where as HD DVD can only manage 51Gb using triple Layer(only 1Gb more). Also Blu-ray can use 100Gb(4 layer) & 200Gb(8 Layer) media also with just a firmware upgrade. HD DVD will always be behind Blu-ray. :)

The PS3 is the best Blu-ray player on the market to date period.

atlys - Your a fool everything I said is fact. 51Gb HD DVD need the lazer tweaked too achieve 51Gb(then it's only 1Gb above a 50Gb Dual Layer Blu-ray). Early adopters of 1st/2nd Gen Hd DVD players will be screwed as they will be incompatible. Firmware upgrade would'nt work period.

P L A Y B 3 Y O N D

atlys4002d ago

where has it been said that existing hd dvd hardware can't play the 51gig discs. last i heard the dvd forum was still doing r&d to ensure that it would be compatible with all existing hd dvd players as to ensure that there are no legacy issues. i.e., they don't want to screw their early adopters. hd dvd is trying to become the successor to dvd, not necessarily become the defacto storage medium. why would you need anything more than 50 gigs or so for a movie? besides, the relatively low cost of high capacity hdd's is going to make disc capacity a moot point anyway. bottom line, if you're going to spread fud, back it up with some links.

cuco334002d ago

If TL51 can't be used on existing gen1 and gen2 players, the HD DVD forum will NOT approve it as a high def movie media for the format.
They do NOT need to tweak the laser head. It's already been hinted that it can work so we can expect it to be done via firmware if possible. Besides, THERE IS NO MOVIES ON HD DVD THAT NEEDS THE 51GB SPACE YET, IF EVER!
This all though is speculation, nothing is final.

As for the blu comments, just like TL51 is in feasibility stages now, the BD 3x and 4x layers are in the same boat. Guess what, 1.1 profile disks won't play 1.1 features on some 1.0 stand alones. Get that right first before we look at the 'need' for disk storage space that is 100gb or 200gb for MOVIES (aka NOT NEEDED). Disk space storage is a pissing contest. The costs for both burners and BD-Rs do not justify the high price tags when compared to DL DVDs and even flash/HDD. These prices will go down but we are nowhere near that. By the time BD gets the 4x layer 200gb disk out the door, at a reasonable price, the NEXT disk format will be out (i.e. holographic disks can hold as much as 1 TB of info, why go with a 4x layer disk that only does 200gb when you can get 1TB?! Do you think that BD/HD DVD is the ONLY format that has been worked on? guess what, right NOW in labs they are already experimenting with higher storage capacity disks)

I'm not arguing the fact that the PS3 is the best BD player on the market, it's sad that it is! Why? Not everyone wants a game console as their BD player of choice. So even though I'm adopting PS3 for both gaming and Blu-ray movies, I still see BD as UMD2.0

Embrace both. Be movie and gaming fanboy, NOT a trolling format and console fanboy.

kspraydad4002d ago (Edited 4002d ago )

1.1 requirements are:

64 KB of built in persistent memory required
256 MB of persistent memory capability required
outlining support for text based subtitles required
SD PiP decoding required
secondary audio decoding required
no internet capability required

No players sold before Oct 2007 have these requirements except for the PS3. AFAIK.

@Grizz below...

What I meant is that the PS3 has the required hardware components...and is the ONLY BD player being sold upto Oct 2007 that did. Anything bought before OCT 2007 that isn't a PS3 is not going to be able to do 1.1 regardless of ethernet port.

Marty83704002d ago

But seen as not many 1st generation Blu-ray players have been sold this is not a big deal. All Blu-ray players sold after Oct 2007 can handle the upgrade by firmware. The PS3 has the majority share of the Blu-ray hardware market anyhow and that has the specs to handle all Blu-ray profiles.

P L A Y B 3 Y O N D

kspraydad4002d ago

All new MODELS seeking CERTIFICATION after Oct 2007 must be compliant...any model already 1. on the market or 2. certified but not yet on the market does NOT have to be 1.1 capable.

In other words...there are going to be 1.0 players being picked up this Xmas by consumers that will not be 1.1 compliant.

GrizAdams4002d ago

In response to your earlier post (5.0):

The PS3 didn't meet these requirements originally. Rather, the processor allows gives it the ability to be updated to newer requirements - a freedom that stand-alones don't have.

BrianC62344002d ago

"In other words...there are going to be 1.0 players being picked up this Xmas by consumers that will not be 1.1 compliant."

Well, those people should buy the 40GB PS3 as their Blu-ray player. It's only $399 so it will be a great deal compared to the other players on the market. And it will be upgradeable in the future. I don't see why anyone would buy another Blu-ray player really unless there's one a lot cheaper and they don't want a game console in their home.

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