EA: “We Lost Some Fans With Dragon Age 2″

“We were clearly disappointed with some of the response from the fanbase, because we want them to be as excited about it as we are,” says EA Games Label boss Frank Gibeau.

[revengemadmax]

can they realy be suprised? dragon age 2 was junk.

[Yi-Long]

... so ofcourse feedback won't be positive. And rightly so.

[I_find_it_funny]

Dragon Age 2 should be a 40 bucks game, seriously that was really cheap. Cheap story, cheap character models, cheap settings, cheap backgrounds

[Ranshak]

@i find it funny

funny you say that when a GOTY contender like witcher 2 could have been had for only 36usd. lol by that benchmark DA2 should have been 25usd tops.

[ChineseDemocracy]

Oh God. They streamlined the hell out of that game, and made huge sacrifices to the story and character development. Everything that I loved about the first one seemed to be absent from the second.

The fact that nearly the whole game takes place in the same town really bothered me too. Backtracking? Too much.

[Spitfire_Riggz]

Yeah DA2 is a completely different type of game from the first. How do you expect to keep the same fans??

[JsonHenry]

The backtracking and lack of a story I cared about made me stop caring enough to keep playing 2/3 the way through the game.

[EvilDonkey]

Yeah... Bad story, insane stupid level design, units that spawn all around you all the time, less tactical, less chooses, bad art style etc etc.

I still play DA:O, but DA2 is a POS.

[Christopher]

They didn't lose me completely, but I am extremely skeptical of their future games and they will need to work hard to ensure I will buy their next Dragon Age game.

And the 2nd game wasn't junk, just not as good as the first and not up to the expectations many had for it. Including my own. Still an enjoyable game and not "bad."

People really need to stop going to extremes when measuring games. Today, it's either you're AAA or complete garbage for many it seems. Games are still enjoyable and fun without having to be AAA games and they can always be purchased when they lower to a price that you find them to be worthy of being played.

[sazzrah]

I agree completely. The game was definitely a disappointment in comparison to DAO, but in of itself it wasn't 'terrible'.

I remember really enjoying playing it the first time around, and only really being bothered by 1. the crazy amount of game breaking bugs and 2. the repeating environments. It's very much a 'seen one cave; seen them all' scenario and that broke the immersion terribly as well as making it feel incredibly rushed and a bit of a cash in on the franchise.

When I went to play it the second time around, that's when the cracks started to really show, especially with regards to Kirkwall.

Conceptually I don't mind the idea of a game being set within the confines of a single city - plenty of other games do that and it goes by unnoticed. The issue with DA2 was that it was a ridiculously tiny city with bare-bones, dull environments littered with lengthy loading screens which never really come to life and feel like a real city at any point in the game.

When you have games like Assassin's Creed Brotherhood, inFamous 2 and LA Noire that showcase massive sprawling cities that are teeming with life it makes Kirkwall look all the more pathetic. Really, how much more amazing would DA2 have been if Kirkwall was more like Rome in Assassin's Creed Brotherhood?

DA2 was definitely a misstep - not a terrible game, but absolutely deserved the disappointed reaction of the fans and it's 'could do better' report card. I sincerely hope the DA team take on board the criticisms, and don't try to rush out their next title.

[Christopher]

Yeah, and they sure as heck didn't make it feel bigger considering how often they reused the same maps.

I know they said the limitations on art were due to their short development schedule, which is definitely an issue I'm seeing with BioWare encountering now that they've joined EA.

Edit: How awesome would it be to get a quality RPG set in an open world like LA Noire, Assassin's Creed, or even inFamous 2? I'm very surprised we don't see more modern day RPGs as well. Would love to see a Shadowrun RPG set a hundred years in the future with a real-world location as the backdrop.

[sazzrah]

I would love to see an open world RPG. I love the cities in the Assassin's Creed series particularly. They always feel like 'real' cities. There are hundreds of people standing in groups chatting, buying from stalls, riding past on horses or just walking the streets. Then you have the guards who patrol or stand guard and get pissy with you and push you over if you bump into them. You got the criers who draw the crowds, and if you've been causing trouble they'll warn the public about the 'dangerous assasino!'

It's the little touches like that which make the cities in that series feel real, and I think DA2 would have been markedly improved with just a few touches like that.

One scene I thought really lacked the impact it needed was when you first arrive in Kirkwall and the 'crowd' trying to get into the city is about 10 NPCs standing there doing not a lot. It would have been great if there was a whole lot more of them pushing and shoving like they do in AC, and you have to shove your way through them to get to the guard. In general, Kirkwall felt like a ghost town rather than a huge overpopulated city like the game constantly tells you it is.

[Bleucrunch]

I LOVED Dragon Age: Origins....I have no idea what the heck Bioware was thinking with the second iteration....My guess is some asshole executive who has no idea about how to make a good game made these gosh awful decisions and since he/she is the boss no one can say anything to him/her....Its a Harsh Reality in the gaming world...and they crazy part is that they will probably make a 3rd and it will probably WORSE.

[Quagmire]

Aiming for the mainstream was the first of many problems, much like Mass Effect 2.

I havent played either franchises, however from fans, I hear that the Hardcore intense and in-depth rpg elements from the first games were ripped out in favour of a more streamlined and accessible game for the greater market.

Its going to be interesting to see how they tackle ME 3 and DA 3, whether they will ultimately fold and get back to their RPG roots, or continue aiming for the massess.

[dc1]

DA2 was a mess.
But you are messing out of ME2.

[DeFFeR]

Missing out on ME2? ME2 had the same issues that DA2 is having... missing elements from the first... streamlined EVERYTHING... loss of customization/classes...

It's just a let down when the first of each game was SPECTACULAR, and the second was almost a completely different game (mechanically) just within the same setting.

Don't get me wrong - I loved the story of Mass Effect 2, but it lost everything about the first that made it a unique game.

[dc1]

True. The Citadel was not ‘explore-able’

However there were many new environments that were richly detailed and carefully designed.
The only ..and I mean *only* comparison you can make between ME2 and DA2 is that Bioware removed the armor and weapon customization option.
The ME2’s story (it can be argued), attention to detail, quality of character interaction, varied world environments and graphics were all improvements.

I would have been a happy gamer if DA2 was on the level with ME2.

Please …no matter how displeased you were with ME2, do not insult the ME team by comparing the game to DA2.

[DeFFeR]

Maybe that sounded too critical of ME2 - but I enjoyed ME1 much much more than ME2.

Scanning planets for resources for hours on end? Yugh... I'd rather go to the "same" different planet and actually battle geth than scan planets over and over.

The customization of your abilities and weapons were completely "casual"ized in ME2 compared to ME1 - just pay for the upgrades, and viola, it's there.

I hope that ME3 is a combination of ME2 and ME1.

[dc1]

I'm with you.

[Tony P]

You heard correctly, Quag.

And I don't think BioWare actually gives a damn so long as it gets them more money. This whole "admit some things were wrong" is just an overused ploy to get the attention of dissatisfied fans.

If BioWare themselves were satisfied with DA as the classic CRPG adventurer it was once advertised to be, they would not have tried to change it. Simple as that.

[Quagmire]

Im not sure its so much BioWare's fault as it is EA's.

If memory serves correctly, ME1 was released before EA's purchase of BW, as well as during the development of DA:O, meaning that until then, BW had direct creative control over their franchises.

My guess is that EA forced them to make it mainstream and quickly release it with a shit load of DLC.

[DeadlyFire]

I blame EA more so then Bioware because its not Bioware anymore. Its EA-Bioware. You have to remember that.

[Tony P]

Jury is still out on that for me, personally. We may never know who's ordering what over there.

But I tend to think that it takes two to tango. If it was just EA mandated feature creep, I don't think BioWare would be defending those changes on all fronts like they have been.

[No_Pantaloons]

I completely agree that this is likely a ploy to increase sales. They say "We understand that and we're listening," but I think it's just to get people interested again and to preorder.

Maybe its EA's fault, but its irrelevant as I fairly certain both ME2 and DA2 sold better than their predecessors, which really is the bottom line when it comes to how games get made.

People need to be less trusting, bioware isn't you're old friend, its a business. Hold off on the preorders, wait a week or two to see for sure that the game is something you're really interested in. You can't believe the hype.

[Bebedora]

With the record past of Bioware, you should be ashamed of that assumption. This is obviously another Squaresoft going Square Enix.

[edit] I agree they should not have changed the 'character' of the gaming experience. Rather make a build of what they already had in DA:O

[edit #2] I have not purchased DA:II because of the lousy reviews. But the comments so far tells me alot about the big changes made - IMOP not to the better.

[darksied]

Well, whoever you want to blame, just keep in mind that Bioware usually puts out arguably better quality games that any other developer out there. They have a stellar line up of games that goes back over a decade.

DA2, which I have not even played yet, can be said to be their only "disappointing" game (I won't say bad, because people say it sucks, then other people say it's their favorite game). Don't hold 1 game against them unless they make it a habit.

[cogniveritas]

There wasn't much of any "Hardcore intense and in-depth rpg elements" taken away when going from Mass Effect 1 to Mass Effect 2. At it's core, it was essentially the same. Go recruit people for a mission, level up, buy stuff and win. That entire system never changed. And of course you can optionally chat it up with your teammates until they tell you about their "problem" so you can solve it and gain their loyalty and extra power.

Maybe people were upset that the mining process was streamlined, but I never found much value in going down onto each and every mining planet and driving around for minerals. Probing the planet from the spaceship worked just fine in ME2.

The disappointment with DA2 compared to DA1 is more on point and evident. You no longer had multiple towns to visit in the order of your choosing which had some effects on the progression of the story. You could no longer outfit your team in the armor of your choosing and their weapon acceptance was extremely limited. And it was and odd thing that if you wanted to talk with your team members about their "problems" then you had to visit them in their home locations because they won't talk about it when you're out and about.

[Spitfire_Riggz]

I personally liked Me1 more than ME2. The story was on a whole other level. Me2 was good but Me1 made me want to become an astronaut!

[maddfoxx]

What ever you heared about ME2 was wrong. It plays the same there are just less moments when you have to make choices, but the RPG elements were left unchanged. I haven't played DA2 yet, but the gameplay looks a lot better than the first. IDK, i didn't like DA1 so I doubt I'll ever play the 2nd one.

[RedDead]

Bioware more like. They've been drifting from me this whole gen anyway

[Saryk]

I beat both Dragon Age games and I have to say I liked them both. After getting DA2 for $20.00 and playing it to the end, I have yet to understand the whining about the game. The only difference between D2 and DA2:

You don't get to pick a different race: That was only skin deep in DA.

Different environments: I don't care I done get to see the swamp if it is not in the story!

Dragon Age 2 is a very good game! And I like how DA2 mentions or show characters from DA and intertwines them!

[banditgoon]

if I had bought DA2 for only $20.00, then I would not be complaining. However I bought it for full retail price, so yeah it is kinda junk.

[Saryk]

I think platform make a difference. Had the game sucked, no matter what the price, I would have been pissed. It’s not only about money and it is with time. I am a PC only gamer, no consoles. However my nephew is the exact opposite. He told me he hated DA on the Xbox and he was shocked that I loved it so. He played the game on the PC and he was shocked.

[SteveThe1ne]

Dragon Age 2 felt like a hit-or-miss with the changes. I loved parts of it, disliked other parts. Hopefully the slate will be made perfect for Dragon Age 3.

[Topshelfcheese]

I'm about 7 hours into DA2 now and I like it thus far. I think they dumbed down the stuff they should have. I dislike all the micro-loot management for every character in DA1. I think its a good balance now, and having a great time playing thus far.

[revengemadmax]

i played through the entire game.. The whole time i was waiting to get out of Kirkwall.. When the credit rolled i was like... are you kidding me??

who asked for multiplayer? Last i checked dragon age was a deep rpg with many places to explore.. When i finished that i said to myself.. That was so! Good! More of the same please!

I didn’t shout! omg where’s the multiplayer! Also whilst you’re at it can you remove any complicated rpg stuff so i can continue to mindlessly chop my way through enemies who explode on impact!

[banjadude]

Yeah, that multiplayer part of the article made me facepalm.

[koehler83]

Yeah, I couldn't even finish it. So disappointing. And now I have no reason to look forward to 3.

[Falaut]

more bunk and DLC Bioware! Makes me think Activision was your publisher.

[anonym]

What really irks me about Dragon Age 2 is just the sheer lack of effort. How can you make an RPG with such a small scale and still reuse environments? How do you make so few environments, yet still make them so bland and lifeless? Despite all of that, how do you still make 98% of your quests the most mindless, laundry-list fetch-or-fight crap? I just don't known where the creativity and work went. That's unforgivable for two monstrously successful companies like Bioware and EA.

[Bebedora]

With what you are saying about lack of effort, I think Bioware had'nt the time to make what they realy wanted - because of the CEO of EA?

[anonym]

Yeah, I'm sure there was some pressure from above, which is why I wasn't just placing the blame on Bioware. However, I do think that Bioware is big enough at this point that they can get away with telling EA management to back off once in a while. There doesn't seem to be much of that happening, and as much as it pains me to say it about the company that made KoTOR, I think they may be onboard with a lot of what EA is blamed for making them do.

[mobijoker]

Dlc milking and content cutting is not gonna increase your fanbase.DA2 was just a sidequest in DA saga.

[quietlygamingaway]

i thought it was 7/10

never played part 1 though

good game too short

stayed in same city forever!!!

[undercovrr]

I seem to be in the minority as I loved the game! I hope they at least keep the combat for DA3, because that was its selling point for me

[No Way]

I think the combat is what most of the original Dragon Age fans hated about DA2..
At least it was one of the reasons, for me. As well as the lack of customization.

[iNMyFiN4LH0uR]

i loved the game, it was very close to being as good as origins but the single setting and the character being of lesser importance than origins was my primary problems with it. otherwise the battle system was better. a lot of side quests and the ending was really good.

[Bellcross]

I've played and finished both games twice spending over 100 hours on both and I have to say DA:O is way better than DA2, although I liked them both DA2 was just way too linear and mainstream for some and the characters where forgettable with one exception (Isabella). I hope they go back to DA:O type of game with DA3. I really love the world they created.

[DiffusionE]

Catering to a "wider audience" is not always the best route to take. I thought EA learned that ages ago. Now, I just hope Mass Effect 3 does not suffer from the greed of it's publishers.

[codename13]

now forget about DA 2 and go concentrate to ME 3 and DA 3 more, you EA.
Otherwise you'll lose more and more fan.

[Venjense]

Add Crysis 2 to the reasons for lost fans. 3 and 1/2 months later and they still haven't fixed the grain glitch or speaker busting sound glitch with the patch that just released today.

I'm starting to think that EA published games are half-asses unfinished products.

[Armsgraph]

whats was good was a fully voiced main character.no one likes reading in rpgs any more cause visual emotions aren't expressed well with words.i kinda enjoyed the faster battle system i played dao again and i was like "well i guess i can make a sandwich while i wait for my character to attack the darkspawn".i was hoping for more environments i thought the big voyage thing was gonna be much longer and larger.hopefully the can combine 1 and 2 to make 3 great

[Bebedora]

-"no one likes reading in rpgs any more cause visual emotions aren't expressed well with words"
---
Oh my god. What are you talking about? Words can make such impact it's undescribabel. When you can get a verbal response from your own comments and actions, you DO get involved in a completely different way as of, say, Street Fighter #1-999.

Or a scene from DA:O when a council makes a stand of how to solve a dispute...I mean, good gfx to that and YOU will have a better experience.

Not to mention Shakespear or anything... :)

Ofcourse reading every single note (book) from DA:O is optional and, I can agree, that part is not totally necessary in each and every moment of the game.

[Armsgraph]

i know words can make a big impact.I'm just saying in this current generation no one wants to read or try to comprehend and its kinda a shame. me I'm the type a guy that enjoys subtitles even on games that have English.cause i know at some point theres gonna be something that distracts me from just hearing what the character is saying.

[Pintheshadows]

Considering what Skyrim is doing and what the Witcher has done DA2 feels like a game that would of been acceptable from a technical standpoint 5 yrs ago.

That said I did enjoy my first playthrough. I'm just not sure what was going on with it's looks and small scale. I kept expecting more and it never came.

[romancer]

Loved DA:O -- but thought DA 2 so wrongheaded in so many ways that I quit early.

Shook my faith in the Bioware/EA alliance....too much EA commercialization and not enough Bioware creativity.

ME, so far, has not been ruined.... but there are ominous signs.

[MilkMan]

Put multiplayer on Dragon Age 2 and you basically bury it.
Idiots.
This is single player all the way fools.
Anyway back to Elder Scrolls, they know what they doing.

and btw, Mass Effect 3 already looks like ass based on the that "Gears of War look a like video" that's making the rounds.
Fucking pathetic.

Show some rpg elements man. I have 10000000000000 third person shooters and their all land based. How about you show me some sci-fi elements?

Fuck an onmi-blade.

And The Witcher is awesome, for many reasons although it still has its own set of issues. BUT in defense of Dragon Age 2 (and I hate to say this) Witcher was in development for twice the amount of time as Dragon Age was.

They need to refocus if the want to stay relevant. Witcher is coming to the consoles and if they manage to keep the story and sex and the engine intact, not only is Dragon Age in trouble so would a lot of other rpg's.

[TheOtherTheoG]

Regarding RPG elements in Mass Effect 3:
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

From about 2:20, they show a tiny bit of the weapon customization, and the skill points screen, with the new evolving powers. You want RPG elements, here.

[MilkMan]

Thanks.
Better than nothing.

[iceman2885]

Like others said, DA2 isn't a terrible game, but it lost so many of the things that made DA:O my favorite game in years.

They got rid of the epic scale (which sounds cooler, running away and making a living for yourself or Fighting and defeating the forces of evil advancing on the civilized world...hmmm).

They took away the customization at just about every point. No longer being able to pick your character's race, customize all of your party's equipment, etc...

Basically the streamlining they did was a failure IMO.

P.S. I am really worried that they hinted that Dragon Age 3 would again focus on Hawke. Give me either a new hero or let me create my own again. I'm not a huge Hawke fan.

[joab777]

I still loved DA2 but they attempted to do with it what they did w mass effect to overwhelming praise, make it more mass marketable. Unfortunately today, the creators don't have the final say. Hopefully, though, for the next one they bring back what we liked from the first, but keep the aesthetics and graphics of the second one. They are still master story tellers and i had no problems there. I dunno, ppl rage about some rpgs that have action oriented combat and others want a more strategic gameplay. I guess u just can't change from one to the other in a single franchise. Leave the great things alone. I sympathize that the bulk of money comes from consoles, and so they built for them, but there's gotta b a middle ground

[Kantor]

BioWare lost fans. EA never had any fans to begin with.

[Bebedora]

No matter what, it is funny how Bioware made a great game worse, in the same slate when EA bought(?) the studio or rights to publish Bioware games...

[Edit] I love what Bioware has done, it just has come to an evitable end where (I have to say it) the money makes a differens in a bad way.

[Tzuno]

They were lazy with DA2.

[schlanz]

How anyone can stay excited over copypasta and such bland characters is beyond me.

[blackhammer]

I'll get it when it's a steam deal for $10 or so.

I read it was pretty crummy compared to Origins, and from the looks of it, it seems true.

[gcolley]

i just wanted to stop playing the whole time. i cannot recommend this game