Paramount: Transformers HD-DVD doesn't have enough space for High-Res Audio

When audio specs for 'Transformers' were announced, there was a collective sigh of disappointment from early adopters when High-Def-Digest learned that there would be no high-res audio tracks included on this disc. Given that this is such a flagship title for the studio, the decision was quite the head-scratcher.

Indeed, High-Def-Digest had the opportunity to attend a special 'Transformers' media event with Paramount late last week, and the question was asked almost immediately -- why no Dolby TrueHD or uncompressed PCM? The studio's answer was that due to space limitations on the disc, the decision was made to limit the audio to Dolby Digital-Plus 5.1 Surround only (here at 1.5mbps). Unfortunately, this confirms the long-held theory that the 30Gb capacity of an HD-30 dual-layer HD DVD disc has forced studios to choose between offering a robust supplements package (as they've done here) and the very best in audio quality.

[PopEmUp]

Paramount have made a bad move there, going exclusive, I just wonder how they keep up with blue-ray spider man 3

[etownone]

most of the 360 games are made with a native resolution of 720p... with a few exceptions like Halo 3, (which has two frame buffers - both of which render at 1152x640 pixels)

720p is high definition you asss. just like the majority of ps3 are made in 720p.

accept the fact 360 is owning the ps3 this generation

[Mwaan]

Then why does it matter? The average consumer won't spot what you're talking about. Actually some of them might prefer what the 360 is doing. HD-DVD wasn't in the 360 for one simple reason: IT WASN'T READY YET! The one year headstart put the 360 ahead of PS3 and that was all that mattered to Microsoft. I don't think it's about smoke and mirrors. It's about competing. What do you want them to do? Throw up their hands and say "Yeah, Blueray is better. We're dropping out of the race." Actually, by leaving out HD-DVD, Microsoft was able to sell the 360 for $200 dollars less then PS3. I don't know about you? But I was outraged when Sony expected me to pay $600 for a game console. Developers are handling the limited space on 360 and HD-DVD will find a way to get more storage on their disc, because if they don't, they won't survive. This issue will be resolved in a few years. Relax. Buy your Blueray movies and play your PS3 exclusive games. You're not going to miss out if you avoid movies like Transformers and multiplatform games from EA. Trust me.

[Dareaver1]

He is always posting rants about why the 360 is not hi-def, even with games like Virtual Tennis which are native 1080p on both consoles. You would think that would get him to change his attacks on the 360, but it hasn't stopped him. I guess he is hoping to recruit more fanboys by saying these things. If he doesn't like the 360 or HD-Dvd so much, then why does he post in pretty much all their posts. I don't get it, i guess he must have a lot of free time. That's why i don't come on this site much anymore. The Fanboyisms from both sides but pretty much primarily the PS3 side is sickening.

A side note. Who cares about native resolution. I personally don't have a hi-def tv, after buying my 360 and some games, i just couldn't afford one, and you know what, i don't think i'm the only gamer out there who has a 360 or a PS3 and no hi-def tv. And with the slew of great games coming out for the rest of this holiday season, i still won't be able to afford a hi-def tv. Sorry if we are all not rich like secret who must have the newest 1080p tv above 32 inches, and he must have i guess the new Harmon Kardon Logic 7 7.1 receiver with 7.1 MB Quartz speaker setup to appreciate all that these respective consoles can offer.

[hitthegspot]

Let’s call a Duck a Duck… Every company’s main focus is to make money. Microsoft uses bullying tactics against other companies to corner markets they want to compete in. Sony does this to a degree (Game title exclusives). But Microsoft is king.
Weather I agree with this or not I do like the things that Microsoft does for consumers. If you have a bad software disk they repair it free of charge. Gamers could take advantage of this. If you have a bad disk you should take it to the store you bought it from. MS takes steps to help you preserve your purchase and protect your rights as a consumer, look at the extended warrantee now provided with the 360.
Sony on the other hand wants to shake every consumer by the ankles and snatch every nickel from your pocket. I for one think that if I own a disk I should be able to rip the disk and play the movie, music, or what ever it contains on MY OWN phone, PDA, watch, PSP, or what ever I want to play it on that I OWN. Sony does not think that you should be able to do that with out buying the same movie for every device you own. Look at the recent BMG (a division of Sony) announcement. It claims that it is illegal for you to rip songs off a CD you own. It’s disgusting.
Built into the HD DVD spec is components to make it possible to play your movie on other devices. Sony, Disney, and the other movie companies do not want you to be able to do that. I understand their first concern is pirating and illegal sharing. The HD DVD spec addresses this issue and has mechanisms to work through it. Nothing is hack proof, even BR has been hacked. Bottom line, the companies want consumers to pay for everything. Why do you think DivX failed? Consumers don’t want to pay to watch something they own. Do you own a PSP? Is it wrong for me to want to watch one of the DVDs I own on my PSP? Why should I pay $17.00 for a DVD and then pay $20 for the same movie in the UDM format? Rather than fight that this format is better than the other or take sides why not become better educated consumers and think about what’s right for all of us. If you like BR, then ask Sony the same question that MS asked Sony when this format war first began. Why can’t you add the ability to move the movie from one device to another? MS told Sony when this war first began, add that feature to the spec and we will be in your camp, and that is why I am in the HD camp. Disk technologies are changing every day and the HD disk will grow with time. I for one can wait.

[Dareaver1]

very informative, i never knew that. Thanx for the perspective.

[MikeGdaGod]

thats all i have to say about this

[cuco33]

FACT: an unknown "exec" from elsewhere overheard a rumor on why no lossless, you guys bash it apart as if it's the ultimate truth.

FACT: 1.5mps DD+ > 900kps lossless.

FACT: 99% of people in blind tests can NOT tell the difference between any audio format above 320kps. Ask the pros, they'll easily tell you.

FACT: Transformers' audio format has been praised by PROFESSIONALS to be the best sounding track in HDM to date, giving scores of 10/10 and 5/5.

FACT: blu boys use the lossless argument like they did the disc space argument like the did the bandwidth argument, etc etc... IT IS NOT NEEDED IN HDM!!! It also has been beaten to death on how it is not a need but more so a 'want' by those who don't understand HDM and it's technologies.

FACT: blu boys preach the rumored 150mil Paramount deal as truth, it was never officially confirmed. Just another one of these rumors. Ironic they don't preach about the payments and incentives BD exclusive studios get OR the fact that Paramount/Dreamworks/New Line/Warner/etc were PAID to go neutral from HD DVD by the BDA. Irony at it's finest.

I can go on but won't. Let's stop it with the lossless track nonsense. BD isn't 100% lossless (more like 55%) and since most of you can't even tell the difference, nor even have the equipment, don't preach it. You sound retarded beyond belief. It's arguing a mute point you know nothing about.

Watch as the PS3 blu boys disagree. Everything I posted is TRUTH and FACT. Nothing is opinion, nothing is made up. I can link you to studies, quotes, etc of everything I say. I'm neutral, embrace both formats (and consoles) but that doesn't mean I am not biased. I do favor HD DVD for many reasons (finalized spec, no DRM, no region coding, cheaper players for consumer, cheaper and better manufacturing for studios, not relying on a game console to 'win' the HDM war, overall better business model)

[risk]

FACT: Im king of the world
Fact: i have $59874695769476 in my bank account
Fact: writing "Fact:" infront of words without providing proof doesnt make them a fact.

[athlon770]

No please stop, please!

Lets face the real facts shall we? Lossless audo is an uncompressed stream, were you pulled the 900kbps from I don't understand, as lossless audio transfers at 5.5mbps! Doubt me, when I get home tonight I will throw a disc in and show the transfer rate between Digital Dolby and PCM (lossless audio) take a pick and post them. I am sorry you bought into the HD-DVD thing without looking at all the options, but Blu-Ray is the better format, and this just proves it. Paramount was bought out to not put any movies onto the BD disk for 1 year, and market HD-DVD exclusivly. And look what it got them, Speilberg is pissed, Bay is pissed, and the one movie that all you HD-DVD followers were cheering about not two months ago saying it is HD exclusive won't even fit on your precious HD disc!

That is truly laughable! I loved some of the HD crowds comments that "30gig is more than enough, and BD discs just are not needed". Yet when I gave the information that the majority of BD movies are on a single layer disc while the majority of the HD movies are already needing the dual layer disc, I was dissagreed with left and right, well I guess the other shoe just dropped didn't it!

And I love your "FACTS", truley I do...an unknown "exec" please, your transfer rates of audio, HA, Blind audio tests, like that matters, you payed to have HD video and audio, then the studio's take the HD audio out of the picture and say "thats cool, we didn't need it anyway", GET REAL!

For those of you that doubt the need for lossless audio, you paid for it, don't you think as one of the selling points for HD-DVD that you should be getting it?

[joevfx]

the average consumer IS NOT buying HD DVD yet, thats the whole point. video and audio files ( early adaptors) are buying hd dvd and blu ray right now. so when a hd dvd title does not live fully up to the specs of hi def standard, there is no point to getting it. un compressed audio us a huge sellign point on these disc for the people that are buying them right now. and if you cant hear the difference, you eather dont have a surround sound system (which im sure almost all HD DVD owners have ) or you are deaf.

paramount made a stupid move and they will see that when they see the sales of tranformers on hd dvd compaired to spidey 3 on blu ray.

[harv052]

Fact: You guys are BORING!!!

[cuco33]

What part of majority of people, as in more than 95% CAN'T tell the difference above 320kps?! 1.5mps DD+ is perfectly fine HD audio and has been rated by PROFESSIONALS to be 5/5 and 10/10 in Transformers for audio quality. I'ld listen to the pros any day of the week over some fanboy troll who tries to tell me the 'need' for lossless audio when they themselves can't tell the difference. Sure it's cool to have lossless but is it necessary? No, it's just a bragging point and pissing contest and nothing more. BD wasn't even going to include it from the get go, do your research! It's not needed no matter what any BDA exec or BDA studio or PS3 fanboy says it to be. I've been saying this long before I was a PS3 fanboy and BD fanboy before I went 360, wii and HD DVD. There are professional audio engineers with 20+ yrs of experience that will tell you only the audiofiles with $40,000 equipment can tell the difference, not someone who buys a game console for a BD player and a HTIB setup. Want proof? Do this test; encode a CD at 320kps and higher bit rates. Listen to both CD, and all versions of the rip. Your ears will tell you that you hear the same thing but your mind will say 'no, BDA said it has to be better so it is'. Voila, everything the pros have said is true, everything the fanboys have preached is false. It is that easy. We as a masses don't need lossless.

I am neutral. I didn't buy into HD DVD, I bought into HDM and will grab a PS3 (for gaming as well but it really is the best BD player and that speaks mountains of the format how you rely on a game console!I do NOT want to end up with a more expensive obsolete player) and BDs when I see the need. Right now HD DVD is doing everything they said they can do and I am enjoying it. I will follow the same suit with BD but lossless by NO means is a 'need'. Give me good HD audio like 1.5 DD+ and I'll be happy with my setup. What's sad is how crazed you PS3 fans are over BD without even knowing the whole picture preaching specs you don't understand. Anything BD can do in terms of HDM, HD DVD can do. It just costs more for the BD side. I'ld like to know though, how do you think something that isn't finished is the better format?! BD1.1 profile deadline is 2 weeks away and NO word on whether 1st gen players, or even the PS3 will be upgradeable to it. How's that DRM working for Fox and Samsung/LG players? Oh wait... They don't play them! And BD isn't even 1.1 let alone 2.0 yet!!

I find it hysterical how you guys keep bringing up Paramount being 'bought out' yet fail to see what BDA did BEFORE blu launched by paying Para/DW/Warner/etc to go neutral and for neutral studios to go BD exclusive. Hypocritical don't you think?!

All of Speilberg's good films were his old stuff, his new titles aren't as good but if you want those on BD by all means keep them. He wants to pack tons of worthless sales promotional stuff like Disney does with the extra space. Bay at first didn't support the format cuz he thought it was lower quality ala what BD execs preached. Sitting down watching 300 in HD DVD he realized IT'S THE SAME THING!?! and now embraces it as well. For TF, note how many features are on the disc fitted with GREAT picture and GREAT sound. Keep tooting your lossless horn all you want, if you want the film, buy HD DVD. That simple. Or you can do what you think, wait 18 months and get it on BD if that happens.

I love how you say 'blind tests, like that matters'. Do you now what a blind test even is? It is THE truth factor. If you can't distinguish the sound without knowing which one it is, how does that NOT matter? It says EVERYTHING about the human ear and what we perceive to be the 'better sound'. Finally let me add with DD+ IS HD AUDIO. You guys are morons if you don't think so. Have fun listening to your PCM sound track on your home theater in the box setup. :rollseyes:

EMBRACE BOTH FORMATS! One is NOT better than the other but one IS misleading the masses in what they 'need'.

EDIT: to below, I don't need to show proof. I did so in the past and when I did the blu boys nitpicked the data and results as if it were false or if they were pros. Want proof? Do the research yourself. Do a lot of it like I have and you'll start seeing the truth for what it is. But note, you'll stumble on countless lemmings who try and critique what professionals in the industry say because it doesn't go with what they want to hear. Irony at it's finest

[risk]

and i say the same thign again. Stop pulling sh!t outta your ass. post proof WITH what you say. otherwise you will be taken as lightly as a reliable xbox360.

[Dareaver1]

great counter, that's exactly what i was thinking, i don't get why people think one is better when the whole difference is over storage space.

I then realized that it's the features that are different. I have had to inform the same said people that Hd-Dvd is the more interactive of the two, and has done it's claims. We are still waiting on Blu Ray to achieve some of theirs. Then there's the issue of standardization of the players, which HD-Dvd supports, but not Blu Ray. All HD-Dvd players have to be internet capable (so all the features available on the Hd-dvd's can be appreciated with all the players) and so on and so forth. Blu Ray, it is pretty much up to the manufacturer (so some features that are available for some movies are not available with some players) of what they want their player to be able to do. That to me makes no sense.

[athlon770]

You are nothing but doubletalk...

"I am neutral. I didn't buy into HD DVD, I bought into HDM and will grab a PS3 (for gaming as well but it really is the best BD player and that speaks mountains of the format how you rely on a game console! I do NOT want to end up with a more expensive obsolete player) and BDs when I see the need. Right now HD DVD is doing everything they said they can do and I am enjoying it."

So lets look at that sentence..."I am neutral. I didn't buy into HD DVD", then at the end you say, "right now HD DVD is doing everything they said they can do and I am enjoying it." So which is it? Did you buy into HD-DVD or not? I guess it doesn't matter, will just get double talk back again. Oh wait, I didn't phrase that correctly...

FACT...I will just get doubletalk from you!

I did make a mistake in my listing though, I listed the throughput of Linear PCM as 5.5mbps, it is actually 4.6mbps, but still a far cry from your FACT of 900kbps!

And just where in my post did you get the foolish idea that I could hear the difference from DD+ to uncompressed? I made no such claim. In fact, the only thing I wrote beyond correcting your miss-information of the audio was to say "For those of you that doubt the need for lossless audio, you paid for it, don't you think as one of the selling points for HD-DVD that you should be getting it?"

Lets examine that for just a second...

"For those of you that doubt the need for lossless audio, you paid for it, don't you think as one of the selling points for HD-DVD that you should be getting it?" I think that is pretty much to the point, you paid good money for a system that was sold with the premise that it could do anything and everything for high def viewing. Then Paramount decides to short change all the HD-DVD takers out there by saying and your words as well, the idiots will never know the difference, they don't need lossless audio. Well I am glad to say I am not one of those idiots! Do you think I care one bit if I can't tell the difference in quality between dolby and PCM? I purchased a system which listed it as one of its MANY virtues, you damn well better believe that when I spend $30.00 on a movie, I want the best it can deliver.

Next up...

"I find it hysterical how you guys keep bringing up Paramount being 'bought out' yet fail to see what BDA did BEFORE blu launched by paying Para/DW/Warner/etc to go neutral and for neutral studios to go BD exclusive. Hypocritical don't you think?!"

Where is the proof? Post a link please. We all know it is documented FACT (there is that word again) that Paramount did what they did, where is the money trail of BD doing the same thing? Let me see it with my own eyes, as I did a "quick" search and found nothing to back up this fruitless claim. Speaking of, this from the Blu-Ray camp which I am sure you will deny... http://www.blu-ray.com/news...

Spielberg Spokesperson: Universal Japan HD DVD Announcement was "A Mistake"
Posted October 8, 2007 by Ben

Marvin Levy, spokesperson for Steven Spielberg, was kind enough to speak with us today regarding the recent surprise announcement from Universal Home Video Japan that Jaws, E.T., Jurassic Park and Back to the Future would be released on HD DVD.

According to Mr. Levy, "There are no plans to release these titles on HD DVD. It was a mistake and someone inadvertently put those titles into a presentation"

Mr. Levy also mentioned that Universal will be making a public statement regarding this mistake in the coming days.

Blu-ray.com would like to thank Mr. Levy for again speaking with us regarding Mr. Speilberg's films and their future in the world of high definition media.

So basically the HD side is screwing its own directors! Thats all sorts of nice. Using his name in an effort to swing people over when he wants nothing to to with HD-DVD! Priceless!

Next...

"I love how you say 'blind tests, like that matters'. Do you now what a blind test even is? It is THE truth factor. If you can't distinguish the sound without knowing which one it is, how does that NOT matter? It says EVERYTHING about the human ear and what we perceive to be the 'better sound'. Finally let me add with DD+ IS HD AUDIO. You guys are morons if you don't think so. Have fun listening to your PCM sound track on your home theater in the box setup. :rollseyes:"

Do you seriously think I don't know what a Blind test is. You must as you went into a paragraph about it. Again, I stress, did I say ANYTHING about sound quality? Ummmmmm, judges...NO! How about you get off your high horse and grow up. And what the heck is HDM? You list it multiple times in your post but I honestly don't know what you are talking about...High Def Movies? Something you made up so other people will think you know what you are talking about? Something I must be missing.

[athlon770]

I added the pics as promised...3 pics, 1st showing the dolby, 2nd showing the audio set up screen, and 3rd showing the PCM.

[reaperxciv]

already!

Fact: this site is filled with bickering crybabies, even the blind can see that.

See you all online, GAME on!

[Evil0Angel]

and buy SPIDY in BLUE-RAY

i owen both format, i do not give crap about lossless or blah blah just give me fcukin 5.1 good picture quality.

it is funny to see how people arguing BLUE-RAY VS HD-DVD consideing most of them do not own any of them yet, just becuse BR is attached to PS3 , HD-DVD attached to 360 and we have way too many unsecured fanboys who bought a console and they wish they bought the other.

[ruibing]

What in the world does this have to do with the 360/PS3 anyways? 360 doesn't even use HD-DVD for games so there is no need to add the console war on top of the format war? Some of you people are way too sensitive about it.

The point here is not that the video/audio quality isn't good enough, its that it could have been better. It's like how DVD supporters say HD-DVD/BD aren't needed because they can't tell the difference on their SDTVs anyways. If they had to make a compromise when releasing the movie, then it means that they reached a limit on a dual-layered HD-DVD. Does it ruin HD-DVD? No. But it does beg the question of the technical limit of HD-DVD when the tri-layer HD-DVD is 50GB (I think) and BD is 100GB. As HD becomes a more important topic, we are going to reach the limit on both formats soon, so the question is whether the compromise matters to you. Then again, if you bought a HD-DVD player/addon, I highly doubt you are going to flame the format.

[HeartlesskizZ]

I enjoy this movie so much that a sequel was only going to be perfect.
but since the director choose not to take part on it is just another great movie going down =(

[supermandead666]

This is statement after the 150 million bribe to Paramount:

“As a director, I’m all about people seeing films in the best quality possible, and I saw and heard first-hand people upset about a corporate decision. So today I saw [the film] 300 on HD, it rocks! So I think I might be back on to do Transformers 2!”

[rubarb23]

i like how you focus on the 150 million bribe to Paramount. yeah like sony didn't bride target, block buster, ect.
man please you blu ray sluts are just jealouse you wont be able to enjoy transformers in hd. yeah the lack of hd audio sucks, but the audio track that comes with it is still nice. enjoy watching transformers in sd.
as far as hd dvd vs blu ray goes, the fight is not over. lets wait for a winner to be crowned....and then speak.

-EDIT-
supermandead 666

do you have proof paramount rec'd the $150 mil? it was rumour but i believe ms/toshiba/paramunt denied this.
BTW, i torrent movies as well BHUHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
transformers is worth the purchase though.

[supermandead666]

Do u have proofs of this? BTW i torrent my movie. HAHAHA!!

[IdontTakeSides]

HAHA..already experiencing space limitations..Paramount is gonna regret going Hd-DVD exclusive..Blu-ray is gonna own them..Spiderman 3..POTC...!!!....need I say more...?

[rubarb23]

and you know it. only reason your taunting it is cause it's on gay ray. as far as space limitations goes, no worries hd dvd will soon be bringing out the 51gb disc so lets talk about space limitations then.
to answer your question "need i say more?" no you don't, STFU!

[XBOTSMUSTDIE]

Transformers was ok but nothing to brag about..I gett the spiderman collectin in blu ray where every movie come with lossless audio....Face it if you have to cut that means HDDVD is not real HD...Blu ray there is no cutting and everything fits the way it should be.....HDDVD is having trouble fitting and DVD on 360 is having a hard time fitting games...You 360 losers jumped in to early and now you want to complain because sony release a better product ...stop being stupid

[Drano]

Watching both Spiderman 3 and Transformers was like being mentally gang-banged.

Jump Beyond.

[snakeak]

that made me lol.. even though I don't have a clue what it means. :D

[Drano]

I just meant that both movies sucked and that the effect that they had on my mind was as pleasant as a gang-bang... But that's just my opinion. I've been bitterly disappointed in both Transformers and Spider-man 3.

Jump Beyond.

[MK_Red]

In your face Paramount, this is for your stupid move and keeping this terrible format war last even longer. BTW, Can't wait for Transformers HD.

[CRIMS0N_W0LF]

http://www.Paramount.justgo...

[felman87]

LMAO!!

[The Wood]

............

[T_Tokyo2010]

LMAOOO!!!!

[pacman615]

i was waiting for it to end, but i couldn't look away, best post of the day right there , bubbles for you

edit: just added that to my fav's

[Jen5en]

CLASSIC!

Bubbles coming your way.

[ChibiSelz]

hahaha to bad paramount should of went with the real hd format not some cheap knock off.

[patriotZero]

haha Bluray Rulezz

[MvC Xtrm]

I can't wait a couple of days from now a counter debunk article of these claims will present it's self as they always do.

[Itachi]

paramount should make the HD-DVD disc transform into a blu-ray

[pandabear]

lol - bubble to you ;-)

[XBOTSMUSTDIE]

bubbles for you mate

[Baron79]

should transform into a video game system, maybe then more games would be availible for it and you would stop whining about not having Transformers.

[BLlNK]

Come to Bluray. It's the winner.

[anh_duong]

they will in, 16 months

[Rybnik]

That's actually kind of funny LOL.

[bumnut]

i just download all of my hd stuff in 720p off torrent sites. until the stupid format war is over.

can any of you guys notice the difference in the 2 types of audio? i can't, maybe if i had a 30 grand sound system i would notice.

[bym051d]

Yeah, I bet you stop after the format war is over.

Shouldn't there be some N4G policy that limits discussion of illegal activities on the site?

I'm not saying I think it's right or it's wrong, but it is illegally wrong to pirate movies and games. I bet there's some way that N4G can be held culpable if they allow it.

[m9105826]

Those of us who DO have a nice sound system CAN tell. I'd be pretty pissed off if I had bought an HDDVD player only to have one of the biggest titles not support the sound system I pretty much bought exclusively for HD movies.

[Prismo_Fillusion]

I really don't care about this format war at all. Don't have a preference, don't care who 'wins'. But clearly blu-ray won this battle. Ouch for HD-DVD.

[bym051d]

I don't think that Blu-Ray has lost a battle where HDDVD didn't pay someone off.

[patriotZero]

It does't matter xbot.As a result Paramount makes it on Bluray laughs..

[Rooftrellen]

Me and most other Americans don't care.

I don't have the thousands of dollars it takes to watch true this and hear true that. I'll stick with my older HD TV and el cheapo sound system that can't handle all the fancy stuff, no matter if they offer it or not.

I wonder why Sony fanboys wonder why people make a big deal about the 40 GB PS3 not having BC when they make a big deal about something like this.

I refuse to believe that they all have thousands of dollars invested in their sound system and perfect hearing to notice the difference, which means they're doing exactly what they acuse others of doing to the 40 GB PS3, talk about things that don't make a difference to most people.

[wil4hire]

Its because its an HD format, not a DVD replacement. HD formats inherently is for a person that:

A. Knows & Appreciates the difference.
B. Spend money and time into their electronic audio and visual components.

The HD camp is confused into thinking that average Joe's, like yourself. Are going to care to buy into HD when you have no idea what uncompressed audio sounds like. Ever hear a crappy compressed mp3 vs say a high quality mp3? That is the difference. Don't try to make it sound as if you are deaf.

It is the same for HD audio. It sounds amazingly different with a good receiver & setup. We aren't talking 50000jillion dollars either.

Its sad and pathetic that people are settling for low quality products, yet paying top dollar. You are the same people who thought CD's wouldn't replace the floppy disc, and actually convinced themselves that less space is better.

Transformers HD-DVD is only 1 part HD. The video, and fails on the audio. Same goes for the 360, paying top dollar to play last generations games, with normal maps. And not even in HD.

EDIT: By the way..

I am an American. 1080p Projector, 7.2 custom NHT setup. the .2 is for my 2x 15 inch sub woofers making a magic infinite baffle setup.

Please dont try to make it sound like Americans are troglodytes. YOU ARE. So speak for yourself.

[Close_Second]

...I agree that Blu-Ray provides the superior format however, which ever of the HD formats can tap into the "average joe" first will win. And to support the comments of Rooftrellen, the average joe won't care between DD5.1, 6.1, 7.1, etc, etc, etc. If the movies sounds good on their current setup then thats all they will care about.

If Sony is only aiming Blu-Ray at the high-end consumer then I'm afraid, you can kiss Blu-Ray goodbye.

[The Wood]

b/c is focussing on the past and hd is focussing on the future

[ITR]

Don't care about DTS HD or Dolby HD.
To even get that sound..you need:
A certified DTS HD/Dolby HD 7.1 receiver..thats at least $300.
Klipsch 7.1 sys which is approx $800-2,000.
Don't forget about some monster HDMI cables and speaker wires/sub cable.

To hear the difference you need a system that costs around $1,500 to $4,000.

Otherwise your not going to hear it on a reg 5.1 sys.

For most folks thats a lot. Besides that you need a BD player that'll cost you at least $400 bucks.

I get things at cost but I still don't have a new HD TV...or a HD or BD player from our store.

I plan on buying a HD TV first and then getting DirecTv HD 100 next then maybe a HD or BD player.

[XBOTSMUSTDIE]

Most people that jump and buy bluray and HDDVD are people that want the latest electonics...Do you think the people that paid $1000 for a blu ray player or $800 for a HDDVD player want lossless audio...Ask any movie fan how important is audio and they will tell you it's as important as the actual film...The point is you pay for HD and that is 2 parts 1 video and 1 audio.

[Rooftrellen]

"A. Knows & Appreciates the difference.
B. Spend money and time into their electronic audio and visual components."

If this is what both formats are aiming for, both are doomed to fail.

If the average person didn't have a DVD player, we'd still have VHS. If the average person is out of the group either HD format wants, both will fail and we'll still have DVD.

Very few people know the difference, and fewer still have the time or money to spend on high end equipment.

[whateva]

Well this is going to be fun to watch lets start the show!

here comes the fanboys.

[Rooftrellen]

Yeah, it's actually pretty funny.

I don't know why I bother to say anything on this kind of thing, actually.

It seems that I am an "xbot," but I don't know what that means. I thought it was an xbox fanboy, but I hate the 360, and I would rather any company have gotten into the industry than MS, so I must be wrong.

Either that or Sony fanboys just assume that anyone who doesn't love bluray must be a MS fan. Either way, the replies of propaganda from both sides, with very few actual facts, can be quite funny.

[TheMART]

Uhm then they just activate the third layer to get to 51GB...

[wil4hire]

Why didn't HD-DVDcamp tell Paramount to just "activate." The third layer for their largest release this year?

Go to bed and try to think of something better for the morning.

By the way, its amazing that a multi layered disc only goes from 30 to "51."

Edit:

Idonttakesides,

Don't mention the 100gb please. Seeing as how it is actually in development while the "51" gigs is neither explained with multilayer capabilities, or stated whether or not it will even see production. But hey, its the best the guy could come up with. I don't want his feelings to get completely obliterated.

[IdontTakeSides]

Then Blu-ray camp just activate the 100GB..

Edit:

I know it's not a finished product but I couldn't resist not saying it...since he's going around making such IGNORANT comments..!

[Scarfy]

Yeah, they can activate the third layer, but compatibility is unknown at this point.

It could work fine with no issues.

Or they might activate the third layer and break 50% of the players out there, include the 360's drive.

Face it, everyone. Bluray is, and always has been, the way forward.

[synetic]

TheMART at Xboxkings TO BAD 51 GB hddvd disk dont work in the current hddvd players you need a new player

[BenderDGreat82]

not only is the 100gb for the blu-ray nearly complete, but they're working on a 200gb for it too. All together now: LMAO!!

blu ray owners....smile

http://www.betanews.com/art...

[gEnKiE]

ya, activate the 3rd layer and replace all the HD-DVD players out their because I doubt the standard HD-DVD player can utilize reading a 3rd layer on a disk.....If they could update it with a firmware upgrade then great but if they cant then its a loss cause....

[Bathyj]

Hahahahahahahahhhaha hahahahaha hahahahahah HA !

I'm not normally the kind to mock a defeated foe, or say I told you so to someone but I just have to say here Good Job Paramount you sellout cheap mutha fkrs. I really hope your sh*tty movie bombs just because of you decision to set back the format war another 2 years. You've looked after yourself but fuked over your industry because people still arent adopting HD movies as quick as they would be if this war was over so excuse me if I wear a big sh*t eating grin for the rest of the day at your decision having bit you on the arse. dikheads.

[mirroredderorrim]

LMAO. "activate" huh?

You don't activate a layer on the disc, the disc has to be manufactured with the layers on them already.
There are no dormant leet layers that can magically awaken with a firmware update.

This is a blow to the hd-dvd camp and while they are prepping the 51 gig triple layer disc, Blu-Ray is putting the finishing touches on the 100 gig disc. I really want to get a Blu-Ray burner once those discs come out...a storage format as big as a hard drive..wow. Now I can drag and drop most of my files on one disc instead of worrying about space limitations and mutiple discs.

This is why Blu-Ray is superior; the reasons keep adding up.

[patriotZero]

Maybe Paramount didn't like HD-DVD's name hahahah BLU-RAY has best audio, best video quality quality

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... look the link xbots including HD_DVD vs.Bluray table

[Bathyj]

Why not just make it 2 disc's. Xbots dont mind changing disc's, they all said so.

"Judging by the males pheromone levels he wishes to........" PLEASE CHANGE DISC ".......mate, with the female."

"KA........" PLEASE CHANGE DISC ".......BOOM !"

[nix]

that was a good one!

[The Wood]

lol

[Filanime03]

nuff said lol

[Close_Second]

...I can safely say that it does not sway me in one direction or another in terms of an HD video format. I for one dislike movies on DVD that span multiple discs however, I never moaned about it and I still don't.

The big problem for either format right now is convincing people to upgrade. The fact that the Transformers release does not feature TrueHD audio will fall on deaf ears to many. Look at the current DVD format. The two big audio formats are DD and DTS. For years audiophiles have bleated that DTS is the must have format and although it may well be, DD is the more accepted format as the difference just isn't that big between the two. DD is also the cheaper option for the masses.

Consumers simply don't have a good reason to upgrade as buying the HD player is only one piece of the puzzle. They also need a native 1080p display and modern receiver/amplifier and speakers, etc. What makes things worse is that if they do look at buying into an HD format that they have to make a choice which we all know is probably the biggest reason people are not buying into either.

Back to my original point...don't stereotype all 360 owners as being supporters of HD-DVD. I for one don't support either format as I'm not a rent-boy for Sony or Toshiba. Once a winner emerges then I'll go with that format. So far all we have is a lot of creative sales figures and fanboy rants.

@SmokeyMcBlunt: Do you create infomercials as you depict movies spread over multiple discs (or sides of discs) as being worse than it actualy is. I for one did not buy the flipper edition of Goodfellas as I wanted the special edition with director's commentary. The only movies I did buy spread over multiple discs were "Dances with Wolves: Director's Cut", "Schlindler's List" and the LOTR special edition triliogy. I for one did not mind having to swap discs through the movies as most of the ones I just listed are close to or over 4 hours in length. Having a break at the half way mark suited me just fine. Just like the good old days of having an intermission at the movie theatre before it really became a business of moving as many people through as possible in a 24hr period.

By the way, if you're still eating popcorn half way into a 2 hour long movie then might I recommend you get onto a stairmaster over watching the 2nd half of the movie.

[SmokeyMcBear]

haha so true man, I have the goodfellas movie that was on two sides of the disc, so for part 2 you had to flip it over, old school, I know. And man I can't tell you how annoying that was, and if you are serious close second, well i just can't believe you, i mean cmon you are in the middle of the movie, engrossed in the story telling, and all of sudden it just stops,... insert disc 2.. ah man get the popcorn off your lap, tell you baby to move over, get up from that perfect comfortable spot, walk over, eject, flip, now get back to your seat.. just plain annoying. Well i ripped and encoded that same movie, so now its in 2 pars, I have 2 mp4's. Its still annoying as hell, but I at least i don't have to get up and changed, its just square, down, x, good to go.

[Devr]

This is pretty awesome. And they deserve it for making this war last longer than it should've.

[tikku]

stupid, stupid paramount...

[joydestroy]

that really sucks, Paramount.

[DeZimatoR]

Have fun swapping discs to get some audio!

LMFAO

Oh man this is classic. That's what you get for going with HD-DVD Paramount ;)BTW who said this kind of disc space wasn't needed?

I mean, if you want to get only the best (in this case high quality sound) you'll need to put it somewhere ;)

[nix]

now they are stuck with the format for the next 16 months or so. i wonder who's "paying" the price? q:

[wil4hire]

they are always welcome back at BLuray. I would have done the same thing if I were paramount. 150 million is 150 million.

[nix]

ah.. thanks for mentioning but i was just playing with the phrase "pay the price"... which means suffer the consequences. q:

[Kwertie]

Uncompressed audio is retarded. It's a damn waste of space. Go on, ABX some AC3 then uncompressed and I bet you can't tell the difference. I mean hell, go ahead and use DTS if you must.

Let's say we have uncompressed at 7.1, that's 12288kbps (7.9GB for 90 mins), more than the video data rate of a DVD. DTS would be 6144kbps (around 4GB for 90 mins). AC3 at a pro-rata rate would be about 2.3GB. Wait, reality check. For 12288kbps you can get damn 1080p H.264 looking great (check the greatest game trailer on Nero's site).

Here's my advice. Drop the uncompressed audio and dedicate some more bitrate to the video (where it's needed).

HD-DVD has enough storage space, unless the publishers are being retarded. Remember I told you that uncompressed audio would take 12mbps, or around 8GB? Remember when I told you 1080p H.264 looks great at 12mbps, also around 8GB? That's 16GB, which is the low end of HD-DVD. If they are that stuck, use a 30GB HD-DVD. God they fail. I bet they are whining because they want MPEG-2 and uncompressed audio. Protip: MPEG-2 is ancient, blocky and wasteful. Get with it and use H.264.

Using H.264 + 7.1 DTS you could have 5 DTS tracks and the full movie on a 30GB disc, or 2 uncompressed 7.1 tracks, a 7.1 DTS track and the movie.

God, I hate uneducated claims like these.

[Close_Second]

...will never have the setup (or hearing) to ever appreciate the difference in uncompressed audio anyway.

@Wil4hire: Tell me then, if you don't intend on buying an HD-DVD then are you going to buy the DVD edition with inferior picture and sound?

I for one will wait until ALL the major studios are on the same page with regards to which format they support. Until then there is no winner regardless of what sales figures and fanboy rant you can come up with. The fact of the matter is that there are still two formats and ALL major studios are not backing the same one.

Oh yes, Beta was the superior format back in the 80s and yet it lost out to VHS. Not saying that it will happen this time around but again, the "average joe" will decide who the winner is this time round - Not you or I.

Final comment - how many "average joes" have native 1080p HD display units? You have highlighted yet another issue with this HD format war in that to get the best out of it you need native 1080p (and probably one thats 40" or greater in size). Most HD sets are 720p but are compatible with 1080p signals, i.e. they scale them back to 720p. Basically, upscaled DVD on a 720p vs downscaled Blu-Ray on a 720p does not equate to a visual difference that would convince the "average joe" to spend hundreds on upgrading.

[wil4hire]

Despite of your knowledge of the wikipedia..

The article isn't about Uncompressed audio. Its about it not being able to store:

Movie Data
Extra Features
Online Features
Audio Data

ON ONE DISC. Without sacrificing a part of the package.

Perhaps you should contact the backers of HD-DVD since they have no clue as to what they are doing.

Edit for Close Second:

Bluray is dominating sales of HD-DVD. As VHS did with Betamax. HD-DVD is dead in the water, it is the inferior choice. Now at days consumers understand what GIG's are. Phones/COmputers/Mp3/Camera electronics are all marketed by storage. Why are you trying to convince yourself that less space is better?

Transformers HD-DVD is top dollar $, yet it doesn't give people who CAN TELL THE DIFFERENCE Between Mono and Stereo the option to listen to higher fidelity audio on their disc. Do you NOT see that as a problem for consumers?

Your argument about you not being able to tell the difference is completely moronic and ignorant in the face of the sales of bluray, online audio and visual communities, and average joes. I am 100% sure average joes can tell the difference between 1080p\720p vs NTSC. You were right about one thing.

Sony needs to start convincing regular dvd consumers that they need to buy bluray, because it already won the hd-format war.

[bym051d]

Most consumers won't have TVs that can see more quality than 480i for a while still too. What's your point?

[Bonsai1214]

well, considering 1080p streams at around 30mbs, and even audio over an optical line streams at around 2mbs, space is taken up pretty quickly.

and there is a huge jump just from regular 5.1 (around 500kbs ish) to the 2mbs. i can hear the difference on my setup

[AliC]

I'll be getting the DVD instead anyway so I don't care.

[nanometric]

Can you please tell me at least one point in which HD-DVD is better that Blu-ray!

EDIT: Just as I thought, there is none! then why do you keep preaching that blu-ray is not needed or hd-dvd is better??? Is it just hate towards Sony and everything they make? Why would one want to willingly pick the lesser format for more, then a better one for cheaper?

[DRE1970]

NONE

[jaja1434]

*ventures out into wild*

Because it is, FOR THE MOMENT, cheaper.

*Runs back to hot air balloon. Lits the fire. Gets the hell out of dodge.*

[macsto]

high "res" audio? wtf did I miss something?

[Prismo_Fillusion]

Yes, the audio has a very high pixel count. Duh!

[athlon770]

I actualy laughed when I read you responce, that is priceless.

Macsto - the HD audio is more recognized by the 7.1 surround system. Just as audio went from stereo to surround, then dolby surround, then dolby audio 5.1 to DTS, and now PCM or lossless 7.1 surround. It is the last that this particular movie could not fit on its media of Paramounts "choice"

[Laxe]

I knew this would happen. I hope this mishap makes Paramount a fitting example of what a 'bribe' will do to their corporate image when they back the inferior format.

Take note movie studios, HD-DVD's days are numbered!

[Cherchez La Ghost]

Despite the fact that I'm sticking to DVD9 because of this war, can anyone of you guys can tell the diffrence between Dolby Pro Logic II sound and Hi-Res Sound?! I have a Onyko 1000-watt Surround System and when I watch HBO HD, Showtime HD, or any HD channel, it sounds good to me the way it is. This HD-DVD and Blu-Ray war is "way outta" control.

And another question, why do you guys always bashing each other about this?! I go to other High-Def boards and people don't act this way. Some of them own both formats. Why?! Because they want to enjoy the HD experience now. I guess I'll be one of the millions who'll stand back and wait unil the very end.

[SabreMan]

if it sounds good to you mate then thats fine,
however Dolby pro Logic II is an analogue sound format, there is such a gulf in quality to the digital sound formats of Dolby Digital and DTS never mind the HD Hi Res audio formats

standard Dolby digital or DTS compared to any analogue sound format is like asking someone to tell the difference between night and day . Then we get to the HD hi-res sound found on HD/Blu Ray discs, this is vastly superior to standard Dolby Digital or DTS.
Seriously it's on another planet, it's actually the sound that impresses me more than the improvement in the picture.
Watch something like Black Hawk Down on dvd then watch it again on Blu Ray, seriously the sound will astound you as to how much better it is.
Granted you need an amp that can accept the HD audio formats and a decent set of at least five main speakers and a subwoofer but believe me it's money well spent.

The lack of space and as a result the lack of HD audio on the transformers HD dvd isn't really an issue for most people but it is still an issue that paramount should be a little red faced about.

[Cherchez La Ghost]

At least you gave me an good answer without an ignorant slander. Bubble for you!

[raziizar]

ahhahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahaha hahahahahahahahaha

[Bolts]

Its the cost. Should've HD-DVD movies cost less than Bluray movies? The players are cheaper, so why can't the movies be cheaper considering that fact that disk have less space?

[DJ]

since Dual-layer HD-DVDs are required to match the capacity of Single-Layer Blu-ray discs, and Triple-layer discs just to match a dual-layer Blu-ray disc. Per layer though, they're identical in cost.

[ChibiSelz]

i see some people typing "whats the diffrence" or "so what most people dont have the set up"

well the thing is its has to be eveything or nothing how about i give u vhs quality with Hi-res Audio wouldnt you be pissed?
so it goes both ways

i still dont get why hd-dvd is trying they are losing -_-

[etownone]

losing?? so they should just give up?

they just secured 2 more studios...that brings it hd-dvd 4, blu-ray 5......
hd-dvd are introducing mass market priced hd players this holiday season 150-200 bucks...

its kinda like ps3 vs 360....even if the ps3 has supposedly better technology towards making games...the games coming out look just as good on 360. so why spend the extra cash if your just looking to play hd next gen games.

[Dmack79]

made a bad decision to go hdvd exclusive. They shoul have went Blu-ray exclusive.

[etownone]

i'll be picking mine up today.... i guess i dont have bionic ears like the rest of the blu-ray camp that can tell the diff between digital 5.1 and true high res sound.

enjoy your spiderman 3 in 1080p kids....
while i'll enjoy the best movie of the year in 1080p..only on hd-dvd. haha.

[bym051d]

Best movie of the year? What was it? It certainly wasn't Transformers.

[jaja1434]

Nor was it Spider-Man, pissed me off how they did it, Emo black suit Spidey. Ohh look at me I put my hair down, FEAR ME!!!

But really the only truly great sequel that was better than the original was Alieans

But anyways I think The Kingdom has been the best so far. I don't know all of the "Major" titles that came out this year, Pirate,Shrek,Spider/Simpsons/T rans were just good. They weren't bad or anything and except for Spider I think they were worth my 8.50$ but they fell far short of great.

If you want to see a truly great movie watch Pan's Labyrinth. Its in Spanish and thus you have to read Subtitles( which I don't imagine is a big deal for most people here) but I so very highly recommend it, though its not for the kids...definitely not for the kids.

[gEnKiE]

This is awesome.......I dont think Paramount is going to be renewing their partnership with the HD-DVD group anytime soon when this deal is over with.....

[hardmetal]

bluray rules ...

[Bill Gates]

AHAHAHAAHAHAAAHHHAAHAHHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAAAHAHHA.. ...Go HD!!...NAT!!!

You see XBOTS, everything you SLOBS touch turns to CRAP!!!!

This movie is going to ROCK when it comes out for Blu-Ray a year from now. You XBOTS are pathetic, and so is HD-DVD!!!....HAHHAHAHAHA

[pwnsause]

good job paramount you just shi##ed on one of the best movies i've seen in a while...

[squallsoft]

blu-ray ftw!

[Wozzer]

Blu-ray ftw; the superior format.

[gololo]

hmmm....a few days ago i read sooo many comments on how "movie don't even use half of an HD-DVD"....oh boy...am I glad that this article came up! I am buying the HD-DVD though (loved this movie so I might as well get it).

[PimpHandHappy]

hahahahahahahaha

[kss]

idiots go blu

[richie007bond]

Most people dont care about trueHD sound,nor have the equiment to decode the hd soundtrackts,wtf are you people on, the average joe doesnt even own a hd tv,the war between blu ray and hd dvd is a blip in most peoples lives,thats why dvd is still the number one format and will continue to be for at least another good few years if not longer,dvd is still fairly new to most people and all this blu ray and hd dvd rubbish is not noticed by the general population who still BUY dvd and are quite happy to do so for the forseeable future....

[pwnsause]

yea, but there leaving those with 7.1 surrond sound behind. not good.

[Antiomo]

those are the ppl who dont buy blu-ray and hddvd

[moolox]

$150 million for produce this rubbish for the next 12 mths what a job.

I'll get on the toilet now if MS are willing to pay.

And all that we don't need HD sound but in a years time when you can decode you will buy the "remastered directors mothers cut with stereo sound and 10 second of unseen footage". Which will be the same movie on bluray.

Can you remember dvd flippers and laser disc now there a solution.

[teto83]

not news if you ask me.WHY don`t you just don`t die HD-DVD????

[skynidas]

hd dvd sucks

[roycar69]

No, I don't work for Toshiba but I love a good fight and think that competition is good. I have both formats and wouldn't want any one to dominate (Especially Sony!). Support HD and get a awesome movie too. Peace!

[cooke15]

Wow, this got blown out of proportion.. Haha, seriously no one can even hear the difference. Lets makes something out of nothing more often, its really fun. Oh and doesn't HD DVD have 51gb discs coming out? So this won't even be an (minor) issue anymore. And Paramounts wallets are lined with 150 million from the HD DVD forum, I think they are laughing all the way to the bank right now.

[WilliamRLBaker]

that 99% of users cannot take advantage of *99% of HD users* and like 99.99% of audio receivers in the consumer home right now dont support.

And 100% of users regardless of expertise cannot tell a difference between this and dolby 5.1/7.1

Its funny how the sonyfanboys will slant this, but in reality and BY FACTS 99% of users dont even have the equipment to support this, it doesn't matter if your player supports it if your audio equipment doesn't then you cannot use the function.

P.S: and as Cooke pointed out above me if they had used the 51 gig disc there would be no problem.

[andron]

Most people wont notice or care, but seriously it doesnt make HD-DVD look to good.

[Phuck Sony BS3]

This is part of a review from DVD Talk.

http://www.dvdtalk.com/revi...

The Audio:
Although Paramount has used lossless audio on a few of their other releases, the space of everything they wanted to include in this set meant that instead of including a Dolby True HD or a DTS-HD MA track, they went for a Dolby Digital Plus track encoded at 1.5 kb/s. There's been a lot of buzz about the difference between 1.5 kb/s DD+ and Dolby True HD, with many knowledgeable people saying that there is no audible difference even on professional equipment, while others claim to be able to hear the difference right in their own homes. I was very vocal about my outrage that Transformers, which aims to be a benchmark HD DVD, does not feature a lossless track of any kind. But now, having heard the audio for myself, I can understand why professional film mixers, HD DVD technical directors, and more claim that the difference is negligible.

Put simply, this 5.1 Dolby Digital Plus rocks hard. The level of aural detail is most impressive. I could hear every click and whine of the transforming parts, the grinding of metal when the robots fought, and even the startup sound of the 360 when it comes alive. During big action sequences, the surrounds were often used to assault the senses, but I noticed that the mixers would often use the rears for isolated sounds that they wanted to highlight, such as Frenzy's gibbering when he's on Air Force One. The bass has to be felt to be believed. At times it was so thunderous that I thought it might actually affect my bowels. Everything about this track just screams "REFERENCE!" and it holds up easily to the best PCM and True HD mixes that I have heard. Call me a doubter no more.

============================= ======

And there you have it. Hi-Res Audio not needed.

[pilotpistolpete]

A lot of people here have been saying that you can't hear the difference in sounds, so it doesn't matter.

Regardless, anyone who wants to make the jump with a new format definitely wants to have the best one available. I would be pissed if I invested X amount of dollars on a new HD-DVD player, only to find that there is a format out there that has the same video quality, but has enough space to put the best audio available.

I knew it wouldn't be long before we'd see this. I was wondering what they would cut out to make it fit. Any movie over 2 hours cannot have 1080p, full uncompressed audio on HD-DVD. So I guess they decided to cut out the sounds quality.

There you go HD-DVD owners. The format war isn't even over, and already you're compromising with inferior quality.

[cr33ping_death]

damn paramount....why? sold your soul to the devil and now he's collecting his due, rather quickly i might add.

[goodganja]

I've got 7.1 in my home plus PS3 with Blu-Ray. This news would be crippling to me if I had owned a 360 and wasted my money with the 200.00 HD add on.

Glad chose carefully on the CORRECT product for my gaming and multimedia which is PS3 + Blu-Ray + Linux = Pwn

P L A Y B 3 Y O N D

[cooke15]

Wow you take your audio seriously :| i guess you should throw away ALLLLLL of your DVD's since they are 5.1

[richie007bond]

Wrong again u sony fan boy,i have a xbox 360 and a ps3,i also own the hddvd add on and i am no were near dissapointed, i counldnt care less if theres a 5.1 or trueHD,i dont have a trueHD decoder or am i likely to get one.Plain old D.D 7.1 WILL SIUT ME JUST FOOKING FINE ALONG WITH THE REST OF the 99% population.

[DJ]

Considering that a good 60~70% of the people on this site are either laughing at HD-DVD or angry that the format doesn't have enough space to support the audio quality heard when we saw this film in theaters means that a lot of consumers care about the quality of what they buy.

It's definitely not "only 1% of consumers care about audio", which is what you keep claiming over and over.

[powerslide]

hd-dvd is in deep truble, but they seem to get only in deeper truble.

[cooke15]

lol, because of this? daaaamn you sony fanboys walk the world with blinders on lol

[AnalFace]

ahahahaha!! HD DVD... give up. Please?

[moolox]

Thats not the point girls, remember bladerunner on dvd it was terrible and you had to buy it again. DVD was flipper or dual layer.

If you are releasing a format you don't release a half cooked version. Onykos amp is 400 it will be 200 on ebay and you will be buying you movies again for the new experience. Exactly the reason HD disk sales are slow (apart from the war) as people do not want to replace there dvd collections.

[BlazinEurasian]

<insert maniacal laugh>
Bluray is future proof at 100 GB, first generation HD-DVD is already obsolete.

[DZNetworks]

Easily upgradable with a firmware update.

[Pika-pie]

Ouch!! now that is a kick in the balls for the HD-DVD camp

[Meus Renaissance]

What drives will be in the new PC's? Or is it too early for that?

[Pain]

More proof hd-dvd is and was a joke!!! 1080i 5.1 player FTL!!

[gw4k]

This movie should be released on blue! Talk about a company taking a big pay out to release a title of such caliber in only one HD format!

[OC_MurphysLaw]

I am going to go out and buy Transformers in HD-DVD and a cheap player just to support it. I honestly dont care about hi-def movies but all the Sony Fanboys on this site drive me just nuts enough to say F'it and buy a player just out of spite!

[d3l33t]

HDDVD is 1080i? no love! and now 5.1? I hate this format war because i cant get my favorite movies in the same format. It's Bullshiat.

Where will this war be won? the place where you sell the most DVD's of course, PORN. Sales and rental of pornographic videos and DVDs are a $3.6 billion A YEAR! For an industry thats worth around 25 billion, it could just tip the balance in ones favor. I'm just hoping its before my next favorite movie comes out on a different format :(

[Bonsai1214]

wrong. while porn is a high income industry, you're probably alluding to the betamax vs vhs scenario, where vhs won because porn supported it. but back then, there was no internet. who actually buys porn dvds these days anyways... everything you can get in stores you can get online

[Arutha]

What I find interesting is that Troy the Director's cut is 198 minutes long and still has a Dolby TrueHD track in it. It will be interesting to see if Paramount does a double dip on this title and releases a version with the Dolby TrueHD track and puts the special features on a second disc, or not include them at all.

Never mind the reviewer still gave it a 5/5 for audio. Plus all the other reviews I have read for this movie have giving the audio and PQ very high ratings. Needless to say I'll be happy to get this movie on HD in the next few days. I don't mind owning both formats, but I wish we could get away from the pissing contest on which video/audio codec is the best.

[Fezthebest]

like the 'godsend' symbol/DNA symbol you have on your profile, Oh i love that show, now i just wished Heroes came on Blu-Ray :(

Yeah its totally irrelevnt from this topic but meh.

[PimpHandHappy]

Arutha ur are sick dude. Ur first thought was to defend HD-DVD!

"What I find interesting is that Troy the Director's cut is 198 minutes long and still has a Dolby TrueHD track in it"

then u say

"Never mind the reviewer still gave it a 5/5 for audio"

this whole thread is about the lack of TrueHD sound! I myself do not have 7.1 sound. I still have 5.1 and it still keeps me very happy. 7.1 is for the ppl on the cutting edge. These are the same ppl that are buying 1080p TV's. Cutting egde entertainment is not mainstream because most ppl cant or dont want to spend 5grand or more on a home theater.

blueray is cutting edge and u can have a blueray player for 400 bucks that also plays games, sorts ur music and photo's, gets u online to browse the net and even gets updated with firmware and software monthly!

Blueray FTW

[DZNetworks]

And what happens if a particular movie you like is only released on HD DVD?

[Arutha]

What is so hard to understand? The directors cut of Troy being a 3 hour and 20 minute movie has a TrueHD soundtrack. Why could not Paramount do the same thing? Yes I understand that they choose to to go with HD extras which probably took enough space to bump down the Audio to Dolby Digital Plus at 1.5Mbps which is damn good audio mix.

So what I defended HD DVD. I own both formats and I think both should stick around. I have no problems with either one. The only problem I have is the stupid studios choosing sides (universal, Sony, Fox, Disney, etc..). I say let us the consumers decide which we want and not force us to choose.

As for the whole 7.1 audio mix, how many movies actually have that? I just went through my blu ray collection (on the small side 7 movies but growing) and not one of them has a 7.1 mix (every box says 5.1). I own about 32 HD DVD's and I am pretty sure that they are all 5.1 also. How many people even have the right room type for a 7.1 setup? My room is big enough, but barely. Once I upgrade my receiver to the new Denon 3808CI then I'll buy my new speaker setup about a year afterwards.

[SuperSaiyan4]

Owns a TrueHD surround system...I have yet to see one on the market...I think they cost over £2,000 if you can find one or more!

As long as the movie looks and sounds awesome thats all that matters.

My new Sony system does DTS, Dolby Digital, PCM and has 1000watt total power output, I am sure I aint gonna have any problems enjoying this movie!

[XBOTSMUSTDIE]

I have a JBL L studio series system...If blu ray supporst lossless audio and HDDVD doesn't which format should I go with. I didn't pay $4000 for my system just to have to downgrade because Paramount decided to not support the format that had the capacity to include lossless audio..I just won't buy their products plain and simple. People that pay $1000 dollars for a blu ray player and $800 for a hddvd player might care..You might not you purchase a 360 so we all know you dont care about quality.

[PimpHandHappy]

cutting edge today leads to consumer friendly real fast. I mean look at how many flat screen TV's u see now. They are every where! Im getting my 1080p within a few months. I have one of the 52in room hogs at the momment

[DZNetworks]

Is getting a little ridiculous dont you think? If you like a particular system/format what DIFFERENCE does it make? To each their own.

[gololo]

what i dont get is that a lot of people said that "who needs the extra space of blue-ray" now that there is need for extra space the excuse is "who cares, can't even tell the difference between HD sound and dolby5.1" blah blah blah....fanboyism is just funny to watch

[Armyless]

http://www.vgcats.com/comic...

[Antiomo]

30 gb is enufff.... wait lol

We dont need losless sound..... haahhaha

Yes no need but its much better with losless sound

[PimpHandHappy]

its about upcoming games that will use 7.1 and it will only get done on a blueray disk because it can fit it!

I wont hear the difference for some time. My 5.1 sounds awesome but if i could get that new 7.1 for under 500bucks i would do it. I would just turn my current systme into a killer radio for my bedroom. It has FM/AM and plays MP3's

[Bleyd]

http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo...

Here it is again but for a few bucks cheaper:

http://store.wholesaleav.co...

and this site has more detailed information.

[PimpHandHappy]

i never looked into it but thats cool its already around my buying price. I have a few other things i need thou b4 i get a 7.1

I need a 1080p and i need a Elite

ADD ON: Yea dude i love samsclub. I still have a couple months till i have the cash but im looking around soon. Thanks for the heads up

[Bleyd]

http://www.samsclub.com/sho...

pretty decent price too if you ask me.

[osler109]

Blu-Ray Wins, simple enough

[3sexty rulzzz]

bash hddvd, but one thing you fell to realize is that hddvd is here to stay. sony paid for exclusive content, but when u here allegations about MS paying paramount u b*tches come out the woodworks. Dont hate the 360,hddvd and the massive AAA titles that us xbox fans have at our disposal. Get a f*cking life and play B3N3ITH or jump in and feel the energy.

[Megaton]

Maybe they shoulda kept some of that $150 million payoff to get crackin on larger discs.

Sucks for the HD-DVD people who were anticipating this release, well...if you have a system good enough to notice the audio difference.

[cooke15]

We just put the HD DVD version on in our speaker room at work.. WOW this movie sounds spectacular.. Why is everyone making a big deal out of NOTHING. The movie looks and sounds perfect.

[beaner71481]

a multi-platform version of this movie, maybe paramount will pawn this off to e.a. to do a bad port with good sound and bad framerate for blu-ray. Sucks, i planned on this being the first high def movie i was going to purchase.

[DJ]

Is right now. First Paramount eliminates the Blu-ray version due to the $150 million deal with HD-DVD association, and the format can’t even handle options that the Blu-ray version would’ve offered due to the extra 20GB of space. I was all excited about getting the Blu-ray version too. I wonder how the lowered specs are going to affect potential HD-DVD buyers (i'm guessing not too much, but it is a big hinderence).

Thank god for PS3 upscaling/AV cleanup, otherwise watching this flick on DVD would suck.

[WilliamRLBaker]

because hes gonna make money.
I love people whom actually believe movie makers make movies to make movies, they make movies to make money its called buisness.

and what did we miss out on without the extra 20 gigs *which wouldn't be a problem if they had used the 51 gig hd dvd, it would have all the stuff blu ray has and more* but they didn't so what do we miss? uncompressed sound...and true hd dolby something 99.99% of hd users aren't capable of taking advantage of since most Audio received owned today dont support it unless your rich because uncompressed and true dolby hd capable receivers are expensive.

so we've missed nothing.

[Bonsai1214]

william, its funny how you say that almost everyone can't take advantage of true uncompressed sound, but now and days, almost all amps sold come with a hdmi port, which enables 7.1 uncompressed. just like how the argument that 1080p is unrealistic, where in fact its just a little ahead of the curve. you can expect the sales of MANY 1080p sets this holiday season because after years of waiting, they're finally affordable. and of course, when people buy something, they expect that they'll be able to get the most out of it. i'm sure you can fill in the rest yourself.

[cooke15]

Wow, so the movie would be bad if it wasnt upscaled? talk about shallow. Also i find blu ray players do a crappy job of upscaling compared to regular dvd players.. why is this?

[d3l33t]

In the HD DVD format, TrueHD is a mandatory codec – all HD DVD players must support the extraction and decoding of a 2-channel (stereo) waveform from a TrueHD bitstream. HD DVD allows the sole (primary) audiotrack of a movie to be encoded in TrueHD, with no (other) secondary audiotracks present. In Blu-ray Disc, TrueHD is an optional codec, meaning that TrueHD may only be present on a disc which already contains a primary AC-3 soundtrack. The primary AC-3 audiotrack ensures all Blu-ray players, including those incapable of processing TrueHD, can access a playable audiotrack.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

[d3l33t]

if someone purchases HD quality picture, they should expect HD quality sound. Bottom line. regardless of market retention for TrueHD, the people who buy HD players are ahead of the tech curve anyways, and dont want their sound to be anymore behind their picture quality.

[3sexty rulzzz]

1080p, that funtion isn't available. only the 360 has that capability

[DJ]

to 1080p. Your info is wrong. PS3 also has an advantage in that it cleans up the image quality in order to diminish artifacts from compression and upscaling; last time I checked, the 360 doesn't have AV Cleanup.

[Spinitus]

DJ just owned you XBOT. LOL

[KingJames1906]

Less than one percent of the viewing population won't be able to enjoy this move in true high res sound. How sad.

[etownone]

just picked mine up today for $15 at circuit city...along with Troy directers cut for $12

buy one HD-DVD get one Free.

[Grinchy]

I think the winner of the two formats will be blu-ray. For one reason only: It sounds better! lol! It just sounds cooler than saying hd-dvd.

[Ri0tSquad]

I was waiting for him to talk some more dirt about blu ray.

[Primetimebt]

Must be trying to figure out why his 7.1 sound system isn't working right along with Cdzie1

[3sexty rulzzz]

your post is misleading. the audio in the movie is still top notch. its evident you didnt read the entire blog(review). the sound track and special effects as well as voice pitching got a perfect five star score. Like I mentioned previously, you trolls are pathetic.
The visuals aspects got a perfect score. TR will be one unbelievable hddvd experience. on top of that us xboxs fans have the AAA titles. sony trolls need to get a life; its obvious you dont play or buy games, hell you probably dont own a ps3.

[mirroredderorrim]

You are trolling just as much as anyone else here.
Hell, even I am with this reply to you, but someone had to let you know.

[HarryEtTubMan]

I will have a BLu Ray in the next few months. If u think HD-dVD can win ur dumb.

[SlappyMcTaint]

BLU-RAY FTW!!

BLU-RAY FTW!!

Why support a dying format: HD-DVDead?

[ReBurn]

I bought the DVD version since I have a PS3. But the upscaling capabilities of the PS3 are phenomenal, so it's still going to look and sound fantastic.

[Monty_The_Great]

an HD-DVD player of some sort, I am sorry you won't be able to enjoy what I will be enjoying and that is Transformers in HD, not upscaled DVD. So complain all you want about the lack of whatever, but all I know is that you will be watching on a DVD player, and I will be watching in HD.

[moolox]

And you will still be watching it in 12 mths because it will be the only decent thing you have to watch.

[etownone]

like i posted earlier....i just picked mine up for $15 HDDVD TF at circuit city....

its just amazing how sonyfans now say i will just pick it up for dvd and watch it on my superior ps3 with its amazing upscaling capabilities.... keep telling yourselves that...just like you guys keep saying you dont need the complete GTA4 experience on ps3..

[DJ]

the Blu-ray version of Transformers was axed. The upscaling and AV cleaning are the only options we have. Not as good as having the native HD conent (obviously), but it does help a lot.

And I highly doubt you got the HD-DVD version for $15 considering HD-DVD new releases are $30~35. I'm going to Circuit City after work, so we'll see if you were being truthful or not...

[moolox]

Not about consoles this one it's about movie formats and the FACT is HDDVD has not got long left. This is a huge movie which has been half release, compare it to Spiderman 3 and it falls short of a HD release.

Starter for 10: Blockbusters europe no longer stock any HDDVD in there stores.

[Kwertie]

This is nothing more than an audiophile penis waving contest. Seriously I cannot hear a difference between AC3 and DTS, I doubt many regular people are going to care about uncompressed 7.1. You need some high end expensive stuff to appreciate that.

[kg7310]

Thats sucks.. my favorite movie is not available for Blu ray
dumbasses

[367 To Your Ass]

already have a blue ray player......and i still play my games on my 360.

[pshizle]

http://dvd.ign.com/articles...

video and audio got a 10 from ign check it yourself before you start flaming

[Antiomo]

I simply dont understand why defend paramount or hd-dvd even after this..

GEEZ when they say they are lmited , they are limited. Why settle for second best when this movie had So much expectations.

They could have at least pulled off a warner.... where they put alexander on tow hd-dvd's.

And if you cannot hear the sound difference between lossless sound vs standard dolby or dts.... it simply means you dont have the right reciever and speakers.

Guess what Hd-dvds are just as a luxury item as blu-ray..... this is why this release should have been using the best sound possible but they did not due to space limitations.

No matter what xbots say... whether it is the same argument that 30 gb is enuff.... it does not push away that fact that paramount just shoved their own foot up their mouth.

[ld_ruiz69]

That's what you get for being bought for so low ($150 million? Transformers alone made over $200 million) and not letting me watch the movie in HD :P

[Monty_The_Great]

Transformers made over $300 million, not $200 million. At least here in the states.

[athlon770]

ignor this please, nothing to see here, was adding the pic for the 1st posting!

[DaEnforcer]

Sh1t happens to people that go with the wrong format

[djevolve]

hd dvd will win, porn is on there side
sex sells

[Jdash24]

not necessarily, it was true back in the vhs and starting dvd days.......but now almost everyone has internet and can download porn for free.......they're not going to pay for it......porn wont help the format war this time around

[djevolve]

The ps3 fans should now all about that; they have all the time to jerk but no games to play.

[moolox]

"confirmed the clear benefits of HD DVD, particularly its market-ready technology." Paramounts words not mine. Shame the 50 gig disc were not market ready.

When DVD was released everybody had dolby surround amps and DD was expensive. How many people bought the below par DS disks only to buy the DD one a few years later. All that can't play TrueHD anyway.

I just want to watch a movie at it's best, the interactive stuff is ok but lets get the basic sound and picture spot on first.

[TruthbeTold]

The average Joe cannot afford any of this indulgence.
The average Joe would love to have an HDTV and a PS3, but it's so far beyond being a reality for them, it's laughable.
The people who do own HDTV's and PS3's are the Rich, the Upper middle class, and the wannabe's who are living beyond their means to try and "Keep up with the Jones'".
This is Betamax vs. VHS all over again. All people heard back in the day was: "Betamax has the best quality picture. Movie studios use this format." But what won out? The cheaper, sufficient enough, more accessible to the common man format that was VHS. Why? Because 200,000 millionaires, and 8 million upper middle class people may buy into the over costly top of the line products since they can, but the 100,000,000 average Joe's out there are the market where the most money can be made from. Yes, Blue Ray Disk, can do and is this and that and that... However, extremely sluggish sales of the PS3 have proven, that the technology is not anywhere near affordable enough yet. Meanwhile, there are other sufficiently enjoyable upgrades to people's old appliances/consoles. We'll see if Blue Ray, the technically superior but exorbitantly priced product can hold on long enough to survive.

[rosko486]

I have to disagree since owning an HDTV and a PS3 doesn't require you to be rich. I'm a perfect example, I'm 25 make about $27,000 dollars a year and I've got a PS3 and a JVC 61" 1080p television. I live in a 3 bedroom two bath apartment and have zero debt. As long as someone manages their money it's easy to afford that stuff.

PS: Also, all of these lines about the extremely sluggish sales of the PS3 are laughable at best as you would put it. It may not be the projected sales figures that Sony had in mind, but it's nowhere near sluggish when compared to the 360 and its current lifespan.

[Rhythmattic]

Since when is more less ???

Please remember... Its also a Backup medium.. 30 vs 50 ... Ummmmm

I used to sell 5mb Hard drives for $15000... And you know what most people said ?

"No one could ever use that amount of space"

Everyone WILL own a HD TV , Everyone will have 128Bit computing and everyone will argue on these forums for years to come.

And you will fill a 50G BR Disc.

FACT.