While DICE’s current highly-anticipated project Battlefield 3 being developed with the power of PCs being in mind, as a lead platform, the Swedish studio believes that consoles are naturally bottlenecking the development of PC games.
Title is a little misleading: "PCs are way more powerful than the consoles today and there are actually almost zero games out there that actually use the benefits of this." I can understand where they're coming from though. Beginning at the PC and using everything they have to make it the best they can, and then "scaling back" to the consoles as they say sounds like a fair idea, sounds like that way everyone gets a good deal regarding what each platform can take and can do, that way PC users don't get shafted and console users could actually end up with a better game than expected since they might have hit a point if they did it the other way around and said "no we won't go any further". (Does that make sense? Half of my posts sound like gibberish to me sometimes.)
The way its going it will just result in PC gamers not picking up console ports at full price. Many of us have started waiting for discounts to buy games now. Since i think its unjustified to pay even 50usd for console ports, let alone 60usd which EA and Activision want to charge. Also it will impact purchases of PC hardware, as anyone who bought hardware as much as 2-3 years ago doesnt need to upgrade. After hearing the recent Wii 2 anouncements and rumors of it using a 4000series Ati GPU, if Sony and MS follow a simular suit where they plan to make profits day one, even if they went with 5000series GPUs. Most PC gamers of today will have little reason to upgrade even 2-3 years from now. Overall i think it will lead to a stagnation in the industry in terms of hardware progress and games.
lol @ that pic and yes i do agree with DICE
DICE can just make they games PC exclusive. or make 2 versions.
... it was Vista. Until Win7 came out, Vista was the top of the line OS. And as everyone knows, it was also one of the buggiest, non hardware compatible, unstable pieces of dren this side of the Hynerian Empire. Thus, why few games where released that attempted to push the limits during Vista's reign. Now that Win7 is out and DX11 is standard, the only thing holding back PC gaming is devs.
If DICE are going to continue whining about consoles, then why do they not develop exclusively on PC? I'll tell you why. Because they like money. I wish they would shut up talking about consoles weaknesses, and actually start optimizing games for it. When I see games such as Uncharted 3 running on these outdated machines, I think its renders a lot of DICE's points invalid. It isn't all about Hardware, its about the Software, and how well its coded. Just because they don't support DX11, it doesn't mean they aren't capable of pumping out excellent graphics. If DICE take pride in themselves as world class developers, then they should at least match Sony's 1st party efforts when they are working on the PS3. Did Bad Company's 2 visuals come anywhere close to matching Killzone 3's graphics on the PS3? No. So set yourself a target DICE and beat it. Btw, I'll be playing Battlefield in DX11 on my gaming rig. But as a console owner as well, DICE are starting to piss me off with their negative attitude.
cakeisalie I think you are stretching the upgrade thing. My 275GTX turned 2 years old the fourth of this month. I am getting horrible fps on Dragon Age II on 1280 x 768. So yes I need to upgrade and that was before the 2 year mark.
It's all about optimization and unfortunately, the user base size and gazillion different specs of PC rigs that prevents devs from putting in serious resources. PC Games get pirated more, is cheaper to buy, get's discounted faster and is far easier to hack/cheat which increases maintenance cost. Devs might hold it back, but it is the market (read you customers) and hardware developers (read too many variations) that creates that environment!
I think the main issue devs see with developing with PC as lead and making the graphics top notch is that the PC gaming market is smaller when you compare it to the two consoles so will all that extra effort and time be worth it and pay off? Just my opinion.
Honestly even if the title is misleading onto the point of the title. I think PC gaming should finally bow out now anyways. I think times are changing. Theres a reason casual is taking over and games are a lot cheaper. They say its piracy but its due to the dwelling market people won't pay big bucks for games anymore except the hardcore players as most the gamers of old have moved onto consoles purely because they got sick of the constant upgrade costs and its easier to play on a console. The day PC gaming dies the better it will be for consoles and it will happen though PC gamers will disagree with me but this is my opinion.I been around a while now and seen computers/consoles comes and go and see the PC failing and people only using them for social and casual games. So if anything PC gaming is holding consoles back... Plus hacking and piracy is RAMPANT on PC which nobody can deny and theres no way to fix it. Oh and a thanks to smartphones and tablets a lot of people are starting to even get rid of pcs altogether now to save on room.
Why on earth would you want PC gaming to bow out?? Have you seen the Steam figures? PC Gaming is very popular across the whole world, it is not dying. http://pc.gamespy.com/artic... And the day console gaming dies it will be better for PC gaming. The day anything dies it will benefit the other companies. PC has been around since the beginning, it has no reason to die when exclusives sell like hotcakes (show me a game as old as Warcraft that is still as popular today). I can't believe you think PC gaming is holding console gaming back-- it's like you want casualization and think PC gaming is holding that back. As long as hardcore gamers who want a straight up experience are around, PC Gaming and hardcore console gaming isn't going anywhere, no matter how many gimmicks are thrown at consumers. So what if piracy is rampant on PC? Lots of people still buy games, once again, look at the Steam figures.
Been around awhile, eh? lol Uh, yeah.. You have PC's to thank for console games. Pc gaming will never 'bow out', as they lead the way in graphical development and always will. If anything, from what Ive seen, PC games are making a come back. None of what you said makes any sense. Might as well stamp 'console gamer' on your head. If you know anything about hardware/software and graphical development, the fact consoles hurt PC gaming is obvious. Don't even get me started about DX11 based games....
Consoles aren't holding PC games back - resources are holding PC games back. Do they have any idea how much time, talent and money goes into creating the types of games that push modern PC specs? Creating top tier games that push PC's is simply impractical - and it's not just PC's. With the amount of power that our consoles push developers are almost in a constant state of folding after each game is released. Trying to play up to those specs can easily bankrupt a company. Look at Take Two, for example. Even with the massive success of Bioshock, Grand Theft Auto, Red Dead, etc... they're constantly in a state of near bankruptcy, usually only kept afloat by a timely release of a new Grand Theft Auto title. And these games don't even push the envelope for newer PC's. And I don't get those clamoring for the next gen of consoles. Company's struggle to make titles worthy of consoles as is. While I'm all for a new gen of uber powerful consoles, in reality how many developers will be able to push the limits of those consoles without spending themselves into an early, fiscal grave?
"DICE: Consoles are holding PC gaming back" No Shit... PS3 is almost 5 years old... X360 is almost 6 years old... Wii is almost ... nevermind, doesn't count. Please DICE, don't screw the PC version of BF3...
Devs hold PC gaming back. End of story.
I wonder how things would have gone if PC devs had squeezed as much out of PC graphics as they do for current games consoles. Just think how impressive a mainstream level PC would have looked if 5+ years ago we were seeing currant console graphics quality but without the memory and storage limitations. The industry/publishers got what it wanted though by going console: an increase in game prices, reduction in initial game content, all but totally removing user content so they could sell their own add-on content, reduced cost of development time as hardware stagnant. And just to make things worse for the PC one of those console manufacturers also has the monopoly on PC development..... still more important to make sure there's no monopoly on web browsers!
Minor correction: PS3 is holding PC development back. Crysis 2 on 360 (the best looking console game ever confirmed by all the big names in the industry) proves it. In all seriousness though before all you PS3 loving dicks steal imaginary bubbles, DICE are right but there havent been many games that have tested either hd console to the max so a new gen isn't really needed. PC gamers can carry on being pretentious pricks and deal with it as punishment for the piracy crimes
Devs hold PC gaming back. Pretentious pricks hold gamers back. Judging by your laughable first statement, you're one of the latter. No honest person with functional vision thinks C2 is the best looking game on consoles. Resolution, AA, and framerate actually do factor in. You may like the art style best, but you can't possibly think it looks best in a technical sense.
killzone 3 was better than crysis2 on consoles if anything goes by the 360 is holding the ps3 back games most entire this gen games like ff13 had to be downgrade because of the 360 hardware limitations
We could argue either side. 360 held FFXIII back--in fact, it's the main reason the game was released a year late and became so linear. 360 held GTAIV back, and making both games shitty ports because the 360 couldn't handle the processing power and the PS3 ran on ported code. 360 held Crysis 2 back on the PS3 for not being developed first on PS3. To make it a little more fair, the PS3's processor could've handled an open world Crysis 2, but since the 360's got all the hype it's derailed the abilities of the PS3 and PC. PS3 games are much better when they're ported straight from PC, and in my humble opinion, third party games generally run the same when they're done this way and then ported to the 360. In fact, you should be happy, because if it weren't for the PS3, your third party games would run like shit graphically. The 360 has shitty processing power, we all know it, and we could argue it holds the PS3 and PC back so far it's not fucking funny. Why do you think the 360 has so many framerate spikes? Or you got RRODs? You're shit console can't handle shit when it comes to raw power. Of course, the PS3 also holds the 360 and PC back with it's lesser graphics unit. 256MB of DDR3 still doesn't cut it Sony, and it shows when you're even getting spikes playing KZ2&3. To make matters worse, ports are even shittier on a more expensive console. WTF Sony. Brands don't sell fucking consoles. QUALITY sells. God knows I'd rather be playing games on my PC. I mean, you even got Unreal Tournament 3 first, and that shit was awful! If you'd ever played FEAR 1 or 2... you probably know how bad framerate can be when devs suck at porting. Haze was a terrible game btw, no wonder nobody wanted your console. Sure you can run games better, but it's so damn hard to make them because the games have to have worse shaders and other shit! Thanks Sony, for your piece of shit console. I bought it at launch for $600 when my 360 RROD'd. All in all, only one thing really holds PC gaming back--it's general ultimatum, in a sense. This terrible force? Well, it's not the Wii, I'll tell you. Its... PIRACY! Yes, because since piracy has begun, it has absorbed over half of the PC gaming market, and detracted devs. So they dev on consoles. It's not developers fault. It's people who steal. Or, in the anon way of saying it "copy". It's illegal and it's wrong, and it's why the PC industry is failing. We just need a new fucking generation of damn consoles. PS4, Xbox III, and... the Wii2 is going to be the equivalent of mini PS360.
just give the console versions lower res textures.
I see what they mean but developers are starting to make serious money with the current get because of its now high install base. If they move to Ps4, xbox3 and pc then they would have a much smaller potencial market which would give them a much smaller budget for making games
Off topic @ChozenWoan lol at the Farscape reference. Great show everyone should go back and watch it and Lexx best underrated scifi shows.
DICE: Consoles are holding PC gaming back, true few games comes to mind Crysis 2 ,CoJ Bloodties,Fear 2, COD BO etc not bad games but you can tell that the console market was 1rst thought not saying thats a bad thing but devs should push all platforms to their strengths. Crysis 2 DX9 whats that about ay least they could have supported DX10 and drop the stupid press F to look lol still a fun game. Roll on BF3
Don't you mean the 360 and wii.
I believe he meant to include that old tech you game on also.
You do know ps3 version also can only handle 24 players in BF3 do you? Why not have new consoles & join the 1080p era? Then PC will be in the 1920x1200 era!
Yeah and then when new consoles launch, PC only guys will still complain because by then even better hardware will be out and we will be in the exact same position as we are now. Look, hardware is constantly updated and by the time something new is released it's already bested by something else. It's just the way it is. No sense in releasing a new console every time new hardware is out. This gen is going fine as is. Tons of great games that look phenomenal this year. If you are just after graphics game on PC but as a PC/PS3 gamer I can tell you it doesn't really matter that much.
Dude pc res are far higher than 1080P hell my cards go up to 2560x1600. Just the monitors to run that high are expensive as crap.
how do you have more than one bubble??
PS3 is great and all but all the hardware in every console is out dated now. I do see some potential still but plain and simple hardware becomes outdated quick.
That's the main issue with all consoles but its up to the devs to get the most out of it. Look at FFVII nobody ever thought we would get them kind of graphics out of the PS1 then they came out with FFVIII and beat them again.
PS3 is still pushing out the greatest looking games of all times. God Of War 3 Graphics and Scale is unmatched to this day and uncharted 3 will set bar once released thats my point. Not to mention no other platform uses bluray.
@badboy808 GOW and the like may look nice for a CONSOLE title, but they're still running at 720p (or lower) at 30FPS, which is the kind of performance you can expect from games if you're using a LOW end PC GPU, and by that I mean pretty damn slow by todays standard. Plus for a lot of console games to look as good as they do they have to take shortcuts to compensate for the lack of power available. God of War 3 using a fixed camera angle for example, along with AA methods like MLAA which can cover up the jaggies with minimal performance loss, but in turn blur the image, making it inferior to other more traditional methods of AA used on PC. Now if you compare those games to recent PC titles theres quite a large gap, and still the majority aren't really pushing the hardware on offer at all. We've got to the point where mid range GPUs can easily max out the first Crysis, which is still considered one of, if not the best looking game to date. Now take a very high end GPU like a Ati 6990 or a Nvidia 580GTX which can be twice or more times as powerful as the mid range card, like an Ati 5850 that can max Crysis out, which in turn is roughly 3/4 times more powerful than a 8800GT (low end card) which is again considerably more powerful than the GPU in either the PS3 or 360 and you get a picture of how outdated the consoles are. Also I've never understand the argument about "scale" in terms of the size of objects on screen as if it was demanding on hardware some how. Having something large on screen doesn't require more power so isn't some staple of graphics/hardware capability. "Scale" having an effect on performance is say having large open maps, like Crysis or BF3's multiplayer maps, not some 200 hundred foot monster that you as a spec jump around on. And lastly, Blu-ray is irrelevant in terms of PC performance as all data has to be installed and read from a HDD anyway, so the limit for the size of a PC game is simply how big your hard drive is. Plus with Digital distribution being so popular on PC these days, who needs discs anyway?
@ iamgoatman Wow dude what you just articulated is a subject that i gave up on soo long ago. everything you said was correct absolutely it was accurate and even verifiable if you wanted to make a thread about it, but what i find most odd is how you have 7 disagrees, when you didn't say OMGPCFTW you just brought the facts and i guess the average comment skimmer doesn't get it? or maybe it cant be true. seriously though everything you said was 100% accurate and a very clear picture of the reality. you have my full support and backup, been around this stuff for a long time have run a computer repair shop for the last 8 years and i tell you. one of the hardest things to do is describe to the customers why they need an upgrade. they just don't get the concept. and to make matters worse is when somebody is a "backseat" computer guru and you have to explain to them how their understanding of what they are talking about is flawed. anyways newegg is selling the 5670 crossfire ready for $99.99.... $69.99 with rebate for less than $150 so you can have a Crossfire rig turning 1200p @80fps outta crysis 2 and ready for more. http://www.newegg.com/Produ...
@reedbananaboat That graphics card you pointed out is a great graphics card i have two of them in my PC. But if you wanna get that card i recommend getting this one. http://www.tigerdirect.com/...
Lamest excuse in the industry. Consoles aren't, it's devs themselves that are holding it back. With the time they spend on bitching about console being underpowered, they could use it to make more games dedicated to pc.
True. If devs started to ignore consoles instead of complaining then sony and M$ would upgrade. Since devs are still supporting the consoles sony and M$ do not have to send out the next gen.
we need a new generation of consoles asap
nah Devs are holding back PC!! Dice is not!!
No, i think Bittorent is holding back PC Gaming , and developers knowing if they put out a game it will get Cracked and posted Online a Month Before its Supposed to Sell .. Reducing Sales
Ooooh....yet another fuel for the unnecessary fire. Bring on the fanboys.
then stop making console games.
Not sure how well an FPS orientated company would do in this day and age with only catering to the PC. Years ago sure but now PC is more MMO, RTS, Indie type stuff. FPS is still played but console is the main platform today.
but we get it already, no need to say it everyday. it's kind of alienating a large group of potential customers.
im sorry but wat is it with ths condescending BS thts always cuming from PC elitists. Why would consoles be holding back pc development when the pc has all the resource to make the games as good as posible.i actually think console developers are much more talented cz they hv to work with very little resources to begin with.they have to optimise their code to get the best result on the consoles unlike pc devs who alrdy hv the resources at their disposal.the pc, with all the tech in the world has virtually no games save for crysis and RTSs and a few rpg's, bcz of the rampant piracy rate and most devs moving away from the pc-only model to develop for the consoles and actually make some money.after all this effort tht DICE put into this game u r still goin to see high piracy rates on PC and more sales on teh inferior consoles
"wat is it with ths condescending BS thts always cuming from PC elitists" Err..? "with all the tech in the world has virtually no games save for crysis and RTSs and a few rpg's" ... right? "this game u r still goin to see high piracy rates on PC and more sales on teh inferior consoles" ... and that prediction is based on? Did you even read the article? O.o
Consoles have subsidised the development of Battlefield 3. DICE and their employees should stop whining.
Well if console gamers would not support almost all the industry, most of these companies and incentive to develop better hardware every year would be pretty much dead,.. With all the piracy on the consoles,.. the attach rate for software is still probably 20times higher than on PCs,.. And I consider myself a PC gamer foremost,.. I have no problems admitting that,.. I blame mostly MS for decline of PC gaming with pushing publishers and gamers into games for windows live starting in vista time,.. If we had no Steam, Gog and other ways to get software PC gaming would be pretty much dead,..
I'm getting sick of hearing this. Quit making for the consoles if you are going to whine about them. Not everyone can afford to upgrade thier computer every year to the next thing. And not only that but there are quite a few companies out there that are developing for the consoles exclusively and make very good use of them. When you see the graphics coming out of 5 year old consoles now as upposed to whats coming out on pc the consoles still astonish. Not saying PC doesn't have better graphics but with all that power I would expect some graphics that are 100% photo real right now and yes I've seen good but not what I expect from a PC only developer on computers that are supposedly 20 times more powerful than our consoles.
PC are holding PS3 back, yeah we all know PC are better than bacon Wraped Cupcakes, but PS3 still have 2-3 good years back.
I know you're just trolling, but PC's holding the PS3 back? I mean that's pretty damn stupid even for a troll comment! I'd give you a round of applause, but I fear that would only encourage you further.
Yeah, as stupid as consoles holding PC back, nope its money holding PCs back, do you know anything about world economi?
. " Speaking to Geforce.com, Digital Illusion’s executive producer Patrick Bach said, “Most games are actually still based on the same core idea that the consoles are your focus, the superior platform or something. I don’t know why. That was the truth 5 years ago, but the world has moved on.” Is digital Illusion Dice? The consoles are a closed system and making a game on a PC with no limits and trying to squeeze it onto a closed system like the current gen of consoles is moronic and is a dis-service to the console gamer. The game engine has to be built around the console architecture. The PS3 has suffered tremendously because it's architecture is alien to most devs while the 360 built on PC like tech has benefited greatly. I understand that Nvidia and all the companies that make new electronic equipment are looking for more revenue sources and I for one agree that it's time to move on. It's up to the console makers to decide if they are ready to invest the billions it will take to roll out new consoles. Here's a few quotes from R&D principal graphics engineer for Crytek. Make of it what you like: " "We learned a lot with the consoles, especially how to make smarter and efficient usage of scarce rendering resources. In Crysis 1 times, our attitude was, 'oh what the heck, what's one more additional full resolution FP16 target or a couple of full-screen passes, let's just add it.' You can't take such a naive approach for consoles," Sousa says, harking back to the 'open spec' he had to play with on the previous PC-only Crysis titles " "The PC market just does not support that cost of development, but going multi-platform does. If making a game that is bigger, better, more stable, performs better across a wider range of hardware, provides a continued visual benchmark for PC gaming, and more fun with a huge single-player and multiplayer offering is considered selling out, that seems like a really odd application of the phrase. The decision to go multi-platform has allowed us to bring a better game to everyone, which has been our goal all along." This is not to say that the migration of the franchise across from PC to multi-platform did not have a profound effect on the make-up of the game, however. There's budget, for starters. By delivering three SKUs to the market, a project of the magnitude of Crysis 2 becomes much more viable from a financial standpoint, and the resources are there to include all the features the audience demands "I think we already tapped a large part of the consoles' resources and hardware potential. But there is still quite some potential to push it further, especially from art side, since it was their first game with this engine iteration,
to me they are just pandering to jaded pc gamers.
pc's hold consoles back he means. What exclusives are there on the pc anyway
That's a lot of ignorance.
It's N4G after all, where ignorance is king and comments like that a fairly common place.
Piracy and a dying PC market is what is holding PC gaming back not consoles.
id love to see your proof of a "dying PC market".
well if stupid geeks buy games then they wouldn't need to port games on consoles
Dice have been quite annoying lately.
yah tru dat,they might wana shut-up n work on the game
Each version has it's own team working on it now it seems. So in theory each team should do the best they can on that platform. There should have been differences between versions of games this gen. Trying to keep it identical has always held back another
DICE a studio that's developing a modern warfare clone claims consoles are holding developers back...lol. The lack of creativity is holding developers back! Year after year they keep Regurgitating the same game but change the location and upgrade the graphic.... And this to them justifies another $60. A like graphics as much as the next guy but graphics a great game does not make! With todays economy I can give a [email protected]$k what any developers thinks about consoles. I expect to get another 2-3 years out of mine. If they have a problem with that, then keep your sh!t on the pc!
You build from the top and scale down.
I had a feeling that the title wasn't representing something DICE would say, and I was right about that. “Most games are actually still based on the same core idea that the consoles are your focus, the superior platform or something. I don’t know why. That was the truth 5 years ago, but the world has moved on.” Many developers are choosing to do things that way, but there's nothing about the consoles or PC themselves that are causing one to hold back the other. DICE is actually trying to disprove that PC gaming has to be held back by consoles. That deceptive title pisses me off.
Lazy devs like Dice hold back pc games. Its their choice to make the game multiplatform and again their choice NOT to optimize the pc version. games like KZ3 are prime examples of this fact, as a console game that looks better than any pc game currently available (including the first crysis) developers like Dice have nobody to blame but themselfs for multiplatform games looking bad on the pc also. next time try taking the time to properly optimize the pc version of you're game before blaming its bad looks/performance on the consoles you yourself chose to make it for.
"a console game that looks better than any pc game currently available" Not even close! A lot of multiplats look better than that corridor shooter you mentioned. "Lazy devs like Dice" Dice? Lazy? What?