Carmack: PS3 has more raw performance than Xbox 360

id Software co-founder and chief software architect John Carmack has said that the PS3 has more raw performance than the Xbox 360, but it does come at a cost: it's harder to develop for.

"Now the PS3 in particular, and this has been passed over many times over the years, but the core architectural decisions of having the cell processors versus additional symmetric processors makes life more difficult, unquestionably it’s harder to develop for those there," Carmack told Nowgamer. "You have to use a separate tool chain, the debugging is crappier, and all this. The upside of that is, there is more raw performance for computing there than there is on 360."

[WetN00dle69]

Yeah not bad of an article IF it wasnt old news. We all know that the PS3 has more Raw performance power BUT its minimal or so Carmack has said before.

[Shaman]

Yea,I thought I saw this last year but it wasn't full interview.

[ABizzel1]

Someone only used this part of the interview in a previous article to start a fanboy war,

""The PS3 is still far and away better than anything else that’s ever been made... except maybe the 360," he added. "It’s a great time to be a developer. It’s not like working with the SEGA Saturn or the PS2, where these are really kind of quirky, cranky, architectures that are not, well, architected, I would say."

Which thankfully a fan war didn't erupt, thanks to neutral people like myself hitting the story first. Now after seeing the full interview, it's sad that some people stoop so low just for hits.

[captain-obvious]

this guy needs to make up his mind already

[Commander_TK]

And PC destroys both

[Shadow Flare]

At the end of the day, look at the quality of exclusive games produced on each console. PS3 exclusives are always that step ahead of 360 exclusives in terms of tech prowess. The best of GT5 looks nothing short of photo realistic, killzone 3 looks better then any 360 shooter and 360 titles are still trying to catch up to uncharted 2 standards. Bring on uncharted 3

[gypsygib]

@ captain-obvious:

He means PS3 is easier to develop for than anything before except the 360.

The previous article must have been selected by a fanboy because it left out the part of PS3 having more raw power taking the, "The PS3 is still far and away better than anything else that’s ever been made... except maybe the 360" completely out of context.

360 easier to develop for
PS3 more raw power, easier to develop for than previous gens but harder than 360.

[Blaine]

These annoying PC fanboys won't ever let up, will they?

Hey, Commander, let me know when you can play first-party Sony games on your PC.

[kyl277]

Hey, Blaine, let me know when you finally grow up and realise that games don't need to be exclusive to be great.

[BloodyNapkin]

Hey, kyl277, let me know when you finally grow up and realise that first party Sony games are excellent exclusives. If you would have played some you would have known this by now.

[afterMoth]

Hardware or software, or talent from the developers. The results are there to see and that is the PS3's best are leagues above the 360 and Wii's best.

[Ducky]

@BloodyNapkin

"let me know when you finally grow up and realise that first party Sony games are excellent exclusives"

So what?
He never said the exclusives weren't great.
He simply said that a game doesn't have to be exclusive to be great.

You don't have much of a retort there.

[goosepoose]

Thanks carmack and nw we know the reason why the 360 verisoin going to look inferior/s. We heard this story a million times doesnt need to be confirmed by anyone anymore

[ButterBomb]

AB: Gaming journalism lost what little integrity it had years ago. Not sure what you expected? Truth and facts or maybe the whole story? Nah, won't find that.

http://forum.teamxbox.com/s...

Carmack: "PS3 Better Than Anything... Except maybe 360"

I just hope the guy stops talking and delivers a game that isn't gimped on either system. This talk just makes me want to skip it, much like the fanbois/devs ruined Crysis 2 with all their half truth BS about which version is best. As soon as I start reading crap like this it's usually a sign things are going to disappoint.

[starchild]

He is talking about the CPU. If you have listened to or read any of his other interviews on the subject, he makes it clear that the 360 has a more powerful GPU and more available RAM. He also makes it clear that the advantage in the CPU is mostly a theoretical advantage that is very difficult to leverage in the real world. http://gamevideos.1up.com/v...

All in all the 360 is more powerful in some areas and the PS3 is more powerful in some. I will say, though, that Sony generally does a much better job of taking advantage of their hardware than Microsoft does. It's all up to the effort put into the games and the talent of the developers that make them.

Edit: It's just sad that people disagreed with Commander_TK's comment. It's the absolute truth, the PC does destroy both. You can stick your head in the sand and pretend otherwise, but it won't change the truth.

And before anybody says "we're not denying it, we're just sick of hearing about it", well too bad. You guys are all a bunch of hypocrites. Do you think Wii and 360 owners like to constantly hear about how the PS3 is "soooo much more powerful"? That isn't even true, yet people have to constantly hear it. The PC does have far superior graphics than the consoles. People only point that out to give you console fanboys a little perspective.

[DaTruth]

"So what?
He never said the exclusives weren't great.
He simply said that a game doesn't have to be exclusive to be great."

The dude Kyl277 was replying to never said games had to be exclusive to be great; he simply said you can't play them on a PC! Come to think of it, he didn't even say exclusive, he said Sony first party!

Why did you choose him to correct when Kyl277's comment made no sense in the first place?

[frostypants]

"And PC destroys both."

Depends on the PC, now doesn't it? The PC is not a single defined platform from a hardware perspective.

[Ifone]

Starchild and all the delusional team, stop, its 2011, not 2006, and games are here to prove the obvious thing carmack is saying.

Gpu is almost the same, memory better on ps3 (same amount), and much better cpu usefull for graphics too ! (its the reason why year after year you can see better graphics on ps3, without competition on consoles)

[AlienLion]

I wonder if there is ANY topic that doesnt cause a fanboy conflict over whose joystick is bigger.

[DualConsoleOwner]

"PS3 is has three times the processing power of 360"
http://www.forbes.com/free_...

"GPU of PS3 and 360 is pretty similar"
http://gear.ign.com/article...

And PS3 has better ram as well. so your "more available ram" is confirmed BS.

its kinda sad that fanboys are denying this... but funny too.

[Aquanox]

However the best looking console game ever is on Xbox 360 so...

[JonnyTheMoney]

http://www.lensoftruth.com/...

Conclusion: ... the graphics crown still belongs to Guerrilla’s Killzone 3. Not only does Killzone 3 look graphically better, the performance its more stable throughout.....

Here is the ranking.

Uncharted 2> God of War 3> Killzone 3> Crysis 2 Single Player Only

[YodaCracker]

@JonnyTheMoney

So you're using an article that says Killzone 3 is the best looking console game to prove it looks better than Crysis 2, but then you list Uncharted 2 and God of War III as looking better than Killzone 3. Uh... logic fail?

Anyway, there is no denying that Crysis 2 is the best console game on a technical level. Almost all professional video game publications would agree. One may prefer Killzone 3's art direction, but Crysis 2 is doing more on a technical level than any other console game. And due to the fact that Crysis 2 runs at a higher resolution, and with a more steady framerate, on the Xbox 360, that means that the most graphically impressive console game so far this gen is indeed on the Xbox 360.

You are still free to think Uncharted 2, God of War III, and Killzone 3 look better, but that is only your opinion.

[JonnyTheMoney]

SubHD, bad frame rate hits, Screen tearing, bad textures, terrible AA, and etc
are not "technically" better... what you said is straight up idiotic.

Lens of Truth gone over this.. Killzone 3 is better looking "graphically" not by its artstyle...

Kinda sad fanboys are in such denial about this...

@Menech

Well, i think what DualConsole and IBM said is relevant..
Super computers are not built for gaming, but PS3 is...

And Carmack just confirmed that PS3 is more powerful plus tons of other sources, so where is the argument coming from??

[Menech]

@DualConsoleOwner

Yeah it's pretty much confirmed the PS3 can push 3x more raw numbers then the 360 processor.

But a super computer can push 5000x more raw numbers then my PC and it's still shit at gaming.

Not that am saying the PS3 is a bad gaming machine it's not, am simply pointing out real world that IGN chart is useless.

[wicko]

@Menech

Pretty much like any synthetic benchmark. But its pretty clear that 1st party developers have figured out how to make the cell work for them.

[MaxXAttaxX]

And the PS3 delivers with its games.

[disturbing_flame]

but when it will be about using memory to turn the game it will be difficult for PS3.

I think Carmack will choose to make as many developers a sub HD game on PS3 to make the game turn as smooth as the 360 version.

[kikizoo]

you obviously don't know what you are talking about, since ps3 has more 1080 games, and less "sub hd" games than xbox, and..most important, best graphics (even if 720P is here most of the time), so stop spreading lies.

Both consoles has 512 (256+256 for ps3), but ps3 has better/faster memory

[Voxelman]

actually kikizoo the 360 has 522MB of RAM there is 10MB on the GPU...

[WetN00dle69]

360 has the same amount of ram as the PS3. This extra 10mb DRAM is used for anti-aliasing.

[disturbing_flame]

Ok we'll see if RAGE on PS3 have the same resolution.

It's been 5 years now that we see oftenly multiplatforms games turning in sub-hd on PS3. It's just facts.

We'll see for RAGE at what cost the game will turn the same way the other platforms do.

And by the way i didn't say the 360 had more memory than the PS3, i just suggest that devs have more difficulty to use it on PS3 due to the architecture of the machine. Anyway, news gonna still rain on N4g for this game.

can't wait to play it on my PC.

[50Terabytespersec]

Yes this has all been discussed many years over.
Of course the games do speak for them selves.
Sub HD resolutions versus Native HD and the sheer amounts of Polygons! I.E, GT5, Uncharted, God Of War 3 and lets not talk about MLAA on KZ3 and GOW 3!

[DrFUD]

WetN00dle69, so minimal that PS3's are linked together to form SUPERCOMPUTERS!

[Aarix]

and yet they still dont play ps2 games.

[GarandShooter]

Mine does.

[MRMagoo123]

Garandshooter wins

[Ravage27]

i think he basically reconfirms what most of us have known for a long time now: The PS3 is simply a more powerful hardware compared to the 360.

On one hand, you have statements from industry veterans like Carmack and on the other, PS3 exclusives like GOW3,UC2 and KZ3. This should be more than enough to settle any debate.

[Prcko]

best console on market!!!

[theonlylolking]

That is a matter of opinion.

fact:The PS3 offers the most for the money

opinion:PS3 is the best(it is your favorite but that does not make it the best)

[RyuCloudStrife]

its fact dont hate go hug your 360 to the corner of your basement

[MRMagoo123]

If you look at it from a facts perspective via hardware software and applications PS3 is the best console on the market

[forevercloud3000]

Well actually....

"Best" is technically an opinion anyway. So to him, PS3 being the best IS a fact. Truth of the matter is Facts can be opinions and Opinions can be facts. If I give u an opinion of mine, that is indeed my opinion so if you were to repeat what my opinion was u would be factual.

The more you know :)

[nycrekid]

In terms of games releasing this year it IS the best console on the market, unless of course you love casual stuff only.

[Redgehammer]

All I know, is that I enjoy the hell out of my 360, and for me, it is the best console I have ever owned. I will never disparage the PS3; however, I have spent 30 minutes with one, and it failed to sway my predisposition to distrust and dislke Sony. However, I know the PS3 is the superior hardware, but even in the face of that, the scrappy inferior 360 still manages to deliver a high quality gaming experience. How it does it, I still don't know. It must be magic. Seriously, by so many accounts and conjectures, here on N4G, the 360 should be on its back in submission to the "big dog"", but instead the 360 is strong enough to still be in the conversation, to achieve parity with the venerable PlayStation. I would call that a success against the odds. Sadly, I already have more to look forward to than I have $$; so, I hope you have as much fun on your console of the year, as I do on mine.

[DaTruth]

So RROD didn't give you a predisposition to distrust and dislike MS? Windows Vista?

I'd wonder what even gave you a predisposition to distrust Sony? Was it there quality products? Great software for 15 years? Having owned four Sony gaming consoles and and a range of Sony electronics including two HDTV's and going all the way back to Walkmans, I'm predisposed to trusting Sony!

I've heard some bring up the laptop batteries, but as far as I know Sony doesn't produce batteries, just had a bad supplier.

[MRMagoo123]

OMG you played it for a whole full 30mins and wherent swayed towards the ps3 with all your hands on testing of the best exclusives this gen on the ps3 you should write up a review as to why it isnt as good as the 360, ive played a 360 alot and there is nothing it does that makes me think the ps3 has it worse the 360 has no games any more and when it did have games they where halo or gears and i dont like either halo is for ppl that want a game more noob friendly than cod and gears is just bad full stop.

[04soldier]

Intelligent bubs up. But what I don't understand your predisposition on not liking things SONY.

What happened, did a SONY employee piss in your fruit loops??

[forevercloud3000]

@Redge

Firstly, 30mins is not enough time to really formulate an opinion on anything. Second, what is there to distrust about Sony?(other than they are a giant corporation that is out for your money but thats all of them) And as far as why the 360 is a success....
1. It was first to debut with a one year head start.
2. It is cheaper. Cheaper to make and sells for less(certain skus).
3. MS's add campaign for it was all or nothing. When they started they basically declared war on sony in a marketing standpoint, pointing out any weakness for the system.
4. Moneyhatting: every big name developer to either renig on Exclusive deals with Sony or altogether keep games from the system for the first few years.
5. Sony was too confident in their brand loyalty and rested on their lorals in the beginning.
6. Stigma. Sony's starter prize point left a bad taste in many buyer's mouths and to this day many of them still believe the system to be exorbantly more expensive than 360 when in actuality it isn't. Much ignorance to the product's offerings due to Sony's lack of PROPER adverts. US totally favors MS because its a home grown company, similar to Sony in Japan. US is bigger tho so its at a much grander scale.

Yet anyone with a reasonable mind knows that one thing would have unraveled 360 completely. That thing is the head start. Without it I assure u 360 would be in 3rd again.

[Redgehammer]

30 minutes is plenty of time to know whether or not you like an inanimate object. If i got into a car to buy, I would know in 5 minutes whether or not the car was a fit for me. Why would a game console be different?
@DaTruth that may be your truth but my truth is completely different. BTW If you were smart you skipped Vista.
@04soldier it was Count Chocula
@MRMagoo123--whatever that is you wrote made me lol.. If like your PS3 that is awesome go play it.

[BloodyNapkin]

This is really not a matter of opinion it really is fact.

I mean we can sit here an list stuff all day Bluray, games etc. But if you are not going to beleive then there is no use. People that has used both for amount of time can tell you clearly which is the better system without even batting a eye.

[taylork37]

I have had both since launch....and I still have trouble deciding which is better. Like most people have said...each one is good in its own right.

I do think that the PS3 is a better system all around, but not my much. How can a hands down best system have such a shitty XMB. The thing is a pain. If I have to synch my trophies one more F'in time I'm going to shoot myself.

[jjank11]

@taylork37.... I have also had both for a few years (neither since launch though). I now have both XBL Gold (which is a needed service) and PSN+ (as well as a steam account) and constantly play on both. I would have to say that if it was not for the extra year that Microsoft got on Sony, then the PS3 would be hands down, and clearly, the better console. But due to that extra year, Microsoft got to increase its user-base tremendously, and now most multiplatform games are mostly bought on the 360, only because my friends have only a 360. If this was not the case, I would easily own only PS3 games, Halo and Gears aside (Bioshock and Mass Effect are now on PS3, so I will be getting the next iterations on PS3).

I do have to agree that the XMB is not as good as the 360 Dashboard, but Sony is still playing catch-up and has been adding features. If they can reduce the load times of the XMB and trophy sync, I don't think it would be an issue. Especially considering the impending Google Chrome release on PS3.

I would have to say that the PS3 is really starting to distance itself from the 360, especially with PSN+ (something that has paid for itself twice over) and the amazing exclusives. If PS3 teams up with Google, this might be hard to beat out, but Microsoft does have the resources to go blow for blow. It'll be an interesting boxing match. Next Gen consoles will be incredible and might simply push home computing and PC gaming to the side, especially if consoles add productivity suites and have upgradeable parts. Its not far fetched to start seeing gaming consoles in the work place or gaming consoles being bought simply for PC uses.

sorry, I overdid this one

[RevXM]

Taylor
I can understand trophy sync.
But the XMB IS near perfect IMO.
Its simplistic yet good looking and offers quick access to whatever.
Its like you need a map to navigate The dashboard. (not really, but its slightly more randomized kind of)

HOWEVER I got one big problem with XMB vs the dash.
Ingame the dash is slimmed down to available stuff only and let you do most things right away while the Ingame XMB loads for some seconds.

Hopefully Sony will release a overhaul of the entire OS, featuring a slimmed ingame menu.
Faster overall, auto background Trophy sync, NEW BROWSER, new Ingame universal music player, cross game chat, more customizable theme stuff choose any theme with any icons colour backgrounds or dynamic backgrounds you want.

Better video editor, MKV and proper GIF support, photo editor???? and ofc it will make stuff more smooth between STEAM and ps3 + the upcoming NGP.

Thats what Im hoping for atleast.

[taylork37]

@jjank

Its hard to argue with anything you say, but as it stand now, I do like the PS3 more, but it isn't a "hands down" situation.

If we are talking about the future that probably change....I'm speaking of the present tho.

Again, I am still going with PS3 as my favorite.

@Rev

I just have to disagree that the XMB is near perfect. IMO its far from perfect. But its the only thing that is pretty much not perfect on the PS3.

To add to my previous opinion on the trophy sync, you added the in game xmb. This is almost the same if not more of a pain than the trophy sync. It takes quite a long time once you hit the ps button to do anything. Trying to look at trophy's or look at friends is extremely annoying. I use the in game XMB constantly and it is a big problem. That's my main reason for giving the Xbox a huge edge in that respect.

"Hopefully Sony will release a overhaul of the entire OS, featuring a slimmed ingame menu.
Faster overall, auto background Trophy sync, NEW BROWSER, new Ingame universal music player, cross game chat, more customizable theme stuff choose any theme with any icons colour backgrounds or dynamic backgrounds you want."

You basically stated why it is far from perfect.

[BigKev45]

Duh!

[heylo]

there's a little difference between Sony and its studios claiming things like that and John Carmack, a pioneer of 3D visuals...

[SuperSaiyan4]

Yes its a known fact that the PS3 is capable of doing something like 2.9teraflops per second versus 360 at 0.8teraflops. But it's how you use that power, since the PS3's gpu is behind in technology vs the 360 gpu the PS3 makes up for the visuals via its cell processor so all in all both are pretty much on par.

[Shaman]

That teraflop thing is completely out of sanity.Thats according to some Nvidia crazy calculations for RSX having alon 1.8TFLOPS.I mean,cards like 4870HD have 2TFLOPS and they smoke both consoles put together and multiplied by five.

The real flops number are this.Cell-215GFLOPS(not TFLOPS),RSX 200GFLOPS(with clocked speed at 550mhz).

Xenon 115GFLOPS,Xenos 240GFLOPS.

[NotSoSilentBob]

Take any card from 2005/06 and compare it then. Comparing the hardware from then to the hardware now of course you will get more from the newest tech.

[Ducky]

^ His point was that those numbers rival modern cards... so they can't be right.

[gamingdroid]

PC is a perfect example of how having more horsepower doesn't necessarily yield better result.

For gaming, it needs to have a balanced architecture that doesn't cause bottlenecks (practically almost impossible). You can ramble numbers the manufacturer gave you (based on their internal "unbiased" testing of course) and it wouldn't matter.

In addition, how the SDK are created (and what it exposes) shapes how you harness the hardware.

[B1663r]

Now days it is all about the fill rate... The xbox has a higher fill rate than the ps3 (about 5% faster), but both are smoked by the fill rate on a modern video card. It is like 4 gigapixels on the consoles, and 40 gigapixels on on a modern pc video card...

While the PS3 has all that math co-processor power, we have repeatedly witnesses the limits of a single gp cpu core on ps3 titles... for example, the ps3 can't load a level at the same time it is playing a level or cut scene with the game engine, so they pre-render all the cut scenes and put the movies on the blue ray.

Generally the xbox has better level loading performance as a result... The xbox starts all the pre-computes as the level is loading, which is why the xbox has dramatically faster loading times...

All in all, if you want to talk about performance, you go to the PC...

But then the down side on the PC, which is market forces... Games just don't sell as well on the PC, so the PC is still getting console ports.

Maybe that will change over the next couple of years with Sandybridge CPU's and PCs will tend to have GPU's faster than the consoles... But that hasn't happened yet.

Sad but true, but in general the consoles have smoked the average PC until this year...

[Masterchef2007]

@B1663R
@5Oterabytepersec

Ok you 2 stop acting like children and be a little bit mature. Seriously dont you 2 have anything better to do than troll each other?

[NotSoSilentBob]

Are you Jason Booth from Rockband creators? He tried to justify the 360 being "superior" threw fill rate and was torn apart for making BS up.

[wicko]

"or example, the ps3 can't load a level at the same time it is playing a level or cut scene with the game engine, so they pre-render all the cut scenes and put the movies on the blue ray"

What, no. This is not a feature exclusive to PS3, 360 loads behind binks as well, assuming the developer has implemented loads this way. It's a common strategy (and a good one). If what you were saying were true, that would mean the PS3 would be unable to stream data during gameplay, which is false as you can observe this in many games.

[units]

guy cant make his mind up

[Optical_Matrix]

Well, actually, he never said the 360 had more raw performance. He says he prefers developing for it, most likely because the architecture is more similar to what he's used to, and therefore less of a pain to programme for. What he' saying here though, is despite all that, PS3 just has more raw performance. Don't get it twisted.

[Baka-akaB]

next thing you know , they'll call one of the few 3d gaming genius , and most eminent expert a hack ...

[palaeomerus]

And the funny thing is that PS3 doesn't have much more raw (peak) performance and it's generally so much more difficult to access that differential that the enhancement to the output gained isn't good enough to be worth the effort.

That's why designing games as much as possible to favor the engine and palette and using more expensive animation techniques is a better use of the time and money than trying to run the PS3 at peak performance and efficiency.

[RememberThe357]

Yeah don't get it twisted!

Carmack stated what we all thought we knew; the PS3 is more powerful and harder to developer for. The PS3 has proven that it can out perform the 360 but it needs a developers full attention to do so. Uncharted, Killzone, God of War, and soon to be Infamous have all proven that the PS3 can shine brighter than the 360 (graphically) but like Carmack has said, it takes more work.

[guigsy]

He actually said he preferred developing for the 360, but that the PS3 is ultimately more powerful. I think this is the common perception for many developers.

[gypsygib]

He just said the PS3 is better to develop for than anything in previous generations except the 360 and the PS3 has more raw power.

[Big_Dom]

What are you talking about? Carmack has forgotten more about developing games on any system, than what everyone on this forum thinks they know about gaming systems combined.

[BloodyNapkin]

So he creates game engines not understanding how it is going to be developed for a game. That really make alot of sense.....ROFL

[greatjimbo78]

Actually, he was saying the opposite of that. Have you never heard that saying before? ROFL!

[ALFAxD_CENTAURO]

Everyone knows that, or at least most of the people.

This is not 2006 anymore.

Is just up to the 3rd Party Developers how to develop on PS3.

[ksoto]

Something irrelevant if the devs dont know how to take advantage of it. Luckily as we all know Sony and their first party devs know how to maximize it and give us the best games around.

[nygamer28]

This guys and idiot,make up your mind!

[palaeomerus]

This guy is one of the backbones of 3d gaming who messes with this stuff every day, and you're a nobody who doesn't.

[pr0digyZA]

? he's the idiot.You can't even string a sentence together.

[Big_Dom]

What are you talking about? Carmack has forgotten more about developing games on any system, than what everyone on this forum thinks they know about gaming systems combined. Shows what you fucking know by that statement, anyway. Which is absolute zero.

[yewles1]

This CAN'T be recent... why would he have to say this again?

[SuperSaiyan4]

I dont remember any of this nonsense in the days of the PS2 and Xbox 1.

When will people just realise 1) life is too short and 2) these are just electrical devices.

They are only to give us entertainment who cares pc, 360, ps3 etc etc play your games on whatever ive got all 3 and i dont defend any of them. I have a preference but thats my preference with backed up reasons to why unlike some people on here.

Also PC games are not on blu-ray yet PS3 gamers feel the need to slag off the 360 for using dvd's then you have pc gamers slagging off both the ps3 and 360. Something doesnt make sense here.

[Baka-akaB]

i beg to differ with the first sentence , even if i agree with the latter part .

That stuff have always been there , and would in fact probably be worse , back in the Nintendo vs sega , then Sega vs Sony days ... if the net usage was there , then more widespread .

I dont think anyone will claims in the future that the 360 harmed the ps3 that much , or vice versa . Nor that the wii ruined any of both . Even the whole "pc is shafted because of consols this gen" stick will probably be forgotten at some point ...

While to this day some believes Sony killed the dreamcast .

[LCF]

I blame EA for killing the Dreamcast. They publicly stated that they will not support the system. EA was huge back then and Sega needed the cash.

[palaeomerus]

Heh. Somebody obviously wasn't on usenet back in the good ol' PSX vs. N64 vs. Genesis vs. SNES vs. Saturn era. (People still supported their old consoles better then than we do now because not everybody would buy the new one!)

[Baka-akaB]

Yup EA and sega killed the dreamcast . When the number 1 publisher of the time boycotts you , and when you got clueless executive ruinng good first party sales , and excellent initial sales ... that's what happens

[MysticStrummer]

This has been going on since the late 70s. Atari 2600 vs Mattel Intellivision. I also have a clear preference and reasons why. I'd like to pretend I don't participate in these "wars", but I know at times I just throw fuel on the fire for the hell of it. At other times, I see someone (usually on N4G) make a comment that is completely untrue and feel the need to argue with them. I know the person is most likely just flamebaiting, but I don't like the idea of someone else reading the falsehood and thinking it's true so I fire back. Sometimes I think it's mainly kids that get caught up in it, but I'm no kid and I eventually remember that the companies themselves encourage this crap, and have since the late 70s. It's a marketing tactic, and a way to get free publicity by having people argue about which is "better", but in the end we only have ourselves to blame for falling for it and taking part in it. That said... PS3 rules. : )

[Rhythmattic]

Totally Agree...

its started even before "dedicated" gaming machines...

TRS-80, Microbee, Hitachi Peach, Apple II, The Sorcerer, Vic 20, Spectrum 80, Commodore PET...

Ahhhhhh...

People are delusional thinking people will not compare any type of computer tech

[MRMagoo123]

asif spectrum the Amstrad 464 cpc was the bomb

[sigfredod]

Well coming from carmack itself should be true, one of the best game programmers out there

[ShabbaRanks]

Amen

[Der_Kommandant]

No shit...

[Metfanant]

this is fairly common knowledge...it comes down to the devs using that power at this point...

[ksoto]

Going over the top with it "doesnt make sense" and with that statement i concur, however having preferences and feeling your console is better or superior is natural for whatever reasons you may have.
For example xbox fans may feel their console is superior due to the multi plat fiascos that use to happen all the time with ps3 getting the worse port. They are not to blame for feeling their console may be better if that is their reasoning.
Ps3 owners will look to their exclusives and the bench marks they have set in terms of graphics, number of players on mp and over all quality and believe their console is superior and that is why they prefer it.
Wii owners well i dnt really know what they hold onto (maybe their staple ip's such as mario which are always good games)
But you get the point its when they offend someone in voicing this opinion that i feel makes no sense.

[Corrwin]

UH.... QUICK! GET YOUR FLAME RETARDANT GEAR ON!

Seriously, has anybody doubted this? The CELL is an incredible piece of hardware when people use it.

I'd put Uncharted 2 or Killzone 3 up against any game on PC, and they'd stand well.

I'd love to see CELL being used by GPU manufacturers.

[thekiddfran]

Hits,hits,hits,hits........... .......old news!

[iDotDotDot]

I've always hated that developer excuse,
"Urgh coding for the PS3 is hard."

[Kahvipannu]

Well, for you it's excuse, but for them it's reality, and the fact they have to live with.

Carmack propably knows better than anyone here N4G what he's talking about.

[Aarix]

Probably? He DOES!! People here just do a little research and talks out their ass. This guys a creator.

[gypsygib]

Haven't we all known this for years. But I guess now that a developer has said 360 fanboys have to acknowledge.

[btk]

Oh... so he eventually decided to look at a PS3 and lo and behold... revelation... We are so impressed Carmack...

[Master of Unlocking]

Looks like Mr Carmack has used all the money from M$'s cheque and is free to speak again. :)
But I can already hear the scribblings on paper at M$ Game Studios...very soon the xbox360 will be the system with the most potential again. Until the money of that new "gift" is used to the last cent...Rinse & repeat. XD

[TONYPS3]

I dont get it. it feels like i woke up in 2006. Weren't these articles published back then? Is it just me or is this is old news? anyway its still cool to hear and read that i chose teh right system. The ps3 is superior under the hood and looks cooler on the outside as well. after all the xbox totally copied everything from the playstation(controller,eyetoy concept,the "new" slim console, ect....) just imagine if PS didnt give up some of their exclusive games from last generation (call o duty,GTA,ect...) lol if anything PS gave xbox life.

[xtremegamerage]

I can say this.

If Sony drops cell, they are idiots.

They could hit the ground running in PS4.

The main problem for Sony was the software, and no i don't mean games. The middleware.

If these problems had been sorted out for easy multiplats, and Exclusive engines.I think the once the SPU'S Get used fully, you'll see the jump again.

I'm looking forward to see what UC3,RES3,BF3 bring to the table.

BTW CRYSIS 2 is awesome and the engine just needs ironing out on consoles, mainly the a.i/routines and some sketchy physics code. Crytek, bodies should no longer get stuck in walls, turn on the ragdoll after death ffs.

[RevXM]

I imagine Sony having a new CELL in the PS4 or atleast one extra for the B/C.

I looking forward to the very same games.

There is clearly room for some improvements on the ps3 with CRYengine 3.

They need to fix A.I, some minor physics and visual bugs as well. Potensially there will be less flat stuff, MLAA and higher res and FPS on ps3.
Why? the ps3 is faster than 360, but its version somehow end up being slightly worse looking.

but its still the best mutliplat so yeah. piece of work.
Crytek know their stuff and certainly its been a challenge to work with the PS3, but IMO SONY should have helped out a lot more, because if the first get the hang of the PS3 I think nothing could stop Crytek. and they would most likely truely deliver the most detailed and lifelike experience on 7th gen consoles.

Cant wait for the next gen. Ps3 is the best Ive ever had, but I feel like a new gen is needed. But thats me.

[Spenok]

This guy goes back and forth to often for me to care much about what he says. Yeah Rage looks good. But what im really waiting on is Doom 4.

[LOL420]

Of course ps3's CPU is more powerful than xbox360's.

xbox360's GPU is more powerful than ps3's plus xbox360 has unified memory overall making 360 the most powerful console.

saying ps3 is more powerful as a whole than 360 is like saying athlon x2 2.0 ghz with 8800 GTX isnt more powerful than pc with a intel core 2 duo 2.0 ghz with a 8800 GT.

the cpu doesnt matter as much, plus xbox360's edram can be used for processing physics.

[Persistantthug]

The Cell Processor SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful than the XBOX 360's CPU (Xenon)

The XBOX 360's GPU (Xenos) has more features than the PS3's RSX.

Also, for the PS3, the CPU DOES matter because it's used to graphics process.

For PC's the CPU doesn't matter much for graphics, but for consoles, that isn't true.

[Persistantthug]

KILLZONE 2 = HD
Crysis 2 = SUB HD

Also
It becomes very clear when you look at textures like these:

http://www.lensoftruth.com/...

Edit in....
I figure, while I'm at it, I might as well put up the whole K23 vs C2 comparison link.

http://www.lensoftruth.com/...

[Mr Tretton]

He stated this before the PS3 was released, and says it at least once a year. Nothing new.

[LOL420]

john carmack is a known nvidia fanboy how come he never talks about xbox360 GPU owning ps3's? probley because it a ATI gpu.

LOL.

[LOL420]

on the computer a athlon dualcore 2.0 ghz with a 580 gtx would totally own the fuck out of a intel quadcore 2.0 ghz with a 8800 gtx.

the cpu being more powerful than another doesnt matter as much as gpu being more powerful than the other.

video game's are no longer cpu/software rendered so a powerful cpu is basically fuckin pointless.

XBOX360 IS MORE POWERFUL THAN PS3 FUCKIN PERIOD BECAUSE IT'S GPU IS MORE POWERFUL.

IF GAMES WERE STILL RENDERED USING THE CPU THEN U COULD CLAIM PS3 IS MORE POWERFUL.

PS3 GPU IS ONLY CAPABLE OF DX9C BASED OFF G70 EVEN THOUGH IT USES OPEN GL INSTEAD.

XBOX360 IS DX9++ IT PAST DX9C SPEC.

[RyuCloudStrife]

I didnt wanna waste my last bubble on you but i had to...

[Persistantthug]

LOL420 said,
" IF GAMES WERE STILL RENDERED USING THE CPU THEN U COULD CLAIM PS3 IS MORE POWERFUL. "

Games are partially rendered with the Cell Processor.

I'm almost ready to take away a bubble, but I'm gonna try to educate and teach you instead.

[RevXM]

You should look up the cell, and I tell you many devs makes the CELL run tasks that is usually put on GPU's elsewhere.

Aslo RSX is almost as good as Xenos.
They are different.
but yet very similar with the biggest difference being the architecture.
One does onething better than the other and the other way around.
Xenos might be like 5-10% better overall, but the CELL weighs up bigtime with its much higher performance, prolly 60-80% faster than Xenon realistically as 1 core is disabled.

PS3 uses OPEN GL, but its a special sort of GL called PS-GL.
It is version ES 1.0 at its core but features stuff from ES 2.0 version.

Ps3 also supports LIBGCM which is based on a lower level languange allowing for better better optimization! that alone should pherhaps make the RSX as good/better while utilizing it, than Xenos in 360 using its DX9. Though im not sure how many uses it when making ps3 games.

[I_C_PEE]

Uncharted 3 will prove what this guy says is right.

[firetaw]

i have to agree whit every one. this is passed old news, this is ancient news. now if only they give out news on the improved performance on both machine since lauch. but i think thats already been articlelized... maybe i should check.

[BrianC6234]

Everyone knows the PS3 is way more powerful than other consoles. So what if it's more complicated. Spend the time to learn how to push the hardware. It's worth the extra work. No way is the 360 better than the PS3. Its only better if you're lazy and don't want to spend the time learning a more powerful console. Sony's games show what can be made if developers want to spend a little time learning to push the PS3.

[Kahvipannu]

"Its only better if you're lazy and don't want to spend the time learning a more powerful console. Sony's games show what can be made if developers want to spend a little time learning to push the PS3. "

Oh if it was that simple.. Most sony first party studios have made theyr in-house engines, just designed using PS3 hardware. This is time consuming, and it's not cheap. The thing is that these studios don't have to be afraid of the time and money so much, since they are backed up by sony, in development, and marketing.

Now the industry is, live or die. Mediocre games won't cut the expences, talented studios are going down, and it's very riskfull to try something very different, or to spend insane time alone to make engines for them, unless your giant like Rockstar, or your company like Epic, or Crytek. It's way more efficient to license all ready excisting engine, work that, do the game on multiple plats, since if the game won't success, the hit isn't that bad.

That "little time developers spending" with PS3 will be very risky, and costly, if not first party dev.

[mastiffchild]

Not only that , Kahvi, but the fact that the two userbases are so close together no dev wants to upset HALF it's console market by releasing a crappy(and not the non differences LoT and other comp sites force out of games using programs to justify their pointless existence either but actual ones easy to spot when not using a microscope)version of a multiplat anyway.

The reason 360 and PS3 exclusives STILL look better than console multiplats is because the multi devs, largely, aim for parity above anything else. It stops independent studios from pushing first party ones on their consoles and it's a bit sad but, to me, it seems fact.

[_Empath_]

A monkey could have told you the title.

[Pootangpie]

notice how the sony retards don't know the difference between performance and eye candy

Performance is about speed or how well it will perform in FPS on said system which is what he just said

[SpinalRemains138]

One system's players play the best first party consoles games ever and the other plays DVD baby games with a camera. I fail to see how anyone other than a Kinect owner is a retard.

[a_bro]

!Butthurt 360 fanboy detected!

[HacSawJimThugin]

So what...no one cares...console wars are stupid.

[Masterchef2007]

Well Carmack since everyone assumes that your a god in developing tech for games. I would really like to see you take advantage of that power with RAGE on the PS3. If you cant do that then it proves your not as good as people say you are.

[SpinalRemains138]

And we need an article to tell us what is so blatantly obvious by looking at the games because............?

[Jazz4108]

I own both a 360 anda ps3 and play them both regualrly. I do however enjoy my 360 as there are so many things I see that it does better that benifit me. I love to use live and its interface is streamless as well as its no bs updates and load times and no installs are necessary. The diffrence in power between the two is not much as Carmac has said and many others have said and the fact 360 is easier to program for its just makes sense to me. I do however enjoy my ps3 a lot and enjoy sonys exclusives. If it was not for sony owning its studios the ps3 would be dead in the water because the 360 kills it on all multiplats usually. So you can thank sony devs for saving that system without them the ps3 would not havve made it as anymore then a blu ray player.

[Sub-Zero85]

@ Commander its funny how u PC fag fanboys finally come out of hiding, since Battlefield 3 was shown to be the lead on PC now all of a sudden PC is the best thing to happen to gaming ? We all know consoles are more important to the gaming world ps3 , x360 & wii make up the gaming world it sure as hell isnt PC just like Blaine mentioned u will never see first-party Sony games on PC . So jus shut ur mouth and be happy with Battlefield 3 , which is the only game worth talkin about on PC right now !!

[Trroy]

If the PS3 had the 360's GPU, it would be a monster, and be a good half-gen ahead of the 360, and probably a more powerful gaming platform than any gaming PC through the end of 2008.

I'd say the same about the 360, if it had the PS3's CPU, but... the slower memory architecture and some other issues kinda get in the way of fully utilizing a Cell in a system like the 360.

[ndl1531]

well just look at uncharted 2 god of war3 infamous 2 last guardian uncharted 3 killzone 2/3 etc. etc. and u gotta be blind not to see it and i wanna just say i got crysis 2 today and was sooo disappointed after waiting 2 weeks fo it from ebay dam all the sh!t i heard here about it i didn't want to believe it but its sadly true theres sooo much pop in and glitches and the explosions move in frames and so on and so on that kick ass intro didnt help either i was hoping that was gameplay cuz my jaw hit the floor but when the real gameplay started i was like WTF? DAMMIT IM PISSED man i really was hyped for this and all that sh!t just ruins the experience and please dont say "teh 360 is better"cuz i looked into it and their the same dam sh!t only the pc is way better dam sorry for my rant just really expected allot more from crysis 2

[edwineverready]

Duuuh Winning!

[soundslike]

ZOMG THE ____ IS BETTER CAuSE I HerD SOME1 SAY SO ON DA PLAYGROUND AND LUKE U CAN DO SOME STUFF AND IT LOOKS COOL ZOMG BUT THAT ____ SUCKS BECUZ LIKE I JHERD IT AND CuZ IF I HERD IT MUST B TRU AND THEN I SAW THIS SHOW THAT SAID IT WAS AND THEN AND THEN YEA LIKE in CONCLUSION ___RULESS AND ____ DROOLLSSS

[airforcex]

Yes 360 has a better GPU.

[MRMagoo123]

yes but the ps3 better cpu is by far better than the 360s but the 360s gpu is slightly better than the ps3s gpu and add to that fact that the cell is used for graphics too makes the 360s gpu void in mentioning as an advantage

[Pootangpie]

in terms of processing power however the same could not be said about the GPU 360 blows out of the ****ing it's 2011 so people should stop using develepors it's still same as it was in 2007 90% Multiplatforms are still better on 360

BTW I love how the SDF is putting a bunch of disagree I guess when you state a fact it's riddlin feeding time

[PygmelionHunter]

Approved flamebait article #192351296, keep it up N4G!

[earbus]

Hes just tying to butter up sony fans so they buy his game and before they realize they got another gimped multiplat .

[ksoto]

Yeah like Crysis 2 is gimped lol smh but performs better on ps3

[TGF_Zero]

that news is really old seriously it doesn't matter all gamers know that

[macky301]

really?
PS3 is awesome!

[Saito]

wow that coming from carmack is surprising unlike how he dick rides on the 360

[hazardman]

OLD NEWS!! This is recycled from like a week ago!

[JonnyBigBoss]

Everyone should know this by now. Killzone 3, God of War 3, and Uncharted 2 all perform at impressive levels.

[rlm41]

Crysis 2 at a even better level..

[tomarik]

Ya can we get the fuck over this? Who cares it has more power. Lets just let sales do the talking. This stupid argument has been made before ps3 = power 360= fun w/e so just STFU about it.

[gcolley]

yawn

[floetry101]

Look, John Carmack holds more water here than every poster on this site combined. He doesn't discount either console. Rage is going to be a great game. Let's all live in harmony.

[PSWe60]

must have found this article way back in 2006

[ambientFLIER]

DUH. Is it really still a surprise to people that the PS3 is technically more powerful? Still debating it? I'm an xbox guy and all, but I can admit that the sony machine can push more pixels, all else being equal. Doesn't mean the developers will utilize it efficiently, though.

[zero_cool]

The whole complaint about playstation 3 is hard to develop for is water under the bridge now even valve got served a piece of humble pie & a tall glass of stfu juice & complain & bashed playstation 3 the most out of every other game studio out there.

[zero_cool]

Playstation 3 is a open platform which only runs open source code & 360 is a closed platform that only runs proprietary code & a majority of multi platform developers towards beginning of this gen were treating playstation 3 like a closed platform which resulted in many early multi platform games taking performance hits on playstation 3.

[K1LLSburyPWNboy]

It has so much potential blah blah blah. Riiight..Just like Socom 3 showed us.
"It's so awesome yet so complicated that even we don't know how to make games for it." Zipper Games
"Oh yeah we learned a lot from SOCOM 3, so SOCOM 4 is gonna suck 10% LESS!!! Yes 10%!!"

"Dude blu-ray has so much storage capacity it's crazy!! So we decided to make a SIX HOUR GAME!!!"
Ninja Theory

[MR LOOKINGBILL]

we all know the ps3 has more power but this is the same guy that said he prefer the 360 over the ps3.

[rlm41]

The thousands of multiplats that look and perform better on the 360 beg to differ.

[stonecold3]

no not really ff13 dragon age warrior marvel vs capcom 3 burn out are better on ps3 same with castlevania

[Gazondaily]

PS3 fanboyism and trolling at its best. Here is the full comment:

"Now the PS3 in particular, and this has been passed over many times over the years, but the core architectural decisions of having the cell processors versus additional symmetric processors makes life more difficult, unquestionably it’s harder to develop for those there. You have to use a separate tool chain, the debugging is crappier, and all this. The upside of that is, there is more raw performance for computing there than there is on 360."

Also, anyone who argues for XMB's superiority over Xbox Live is a deluded fool.

[Equinoxe_7]

Sorry but you mean PSN, XMB is pretty cool and simple.

[Mister_G]

Old.... must be a slow news day.

Folding@Home was added years ago to take advantage of all that power.

Shame some devs still struggle to tap that potential (Multi-plat porters, I'm looking at you!).

[Equinoxe_7]

I knew that before the PS3 where in european stores, but I will give that Xbox360 is pretty good at multiplatforms.

[TheRacingX]

WHO F^#%&KING CARES ANYMORE????

5-6yrs of these lame articles is ENOUGH......just play your console and shut the F#*K UP already

[Agent_hitman]

Hi anyone

Is it true that cell processor can able to process shader task, I mean in it's SPE cell processor has 7 but 6 is only available for the developers, what is the advantage of the SPE when it is optimized properly?

I remember back in 2005 when sony originally planned 2 cell processor for PS3 1 as a CPU and another 1 for the GPU task, but they ended up only use 1 cell.

So based on PS3 exclusive, for example Uncharted, It looks like Sony is telling the truth that 7900GTX custom GPU from nvidia the so called RSX can able to push the graphics higher with the help of cell processor's SPE, But the bad thing is, it's kinda tricky.