A highly placed development source has confirmed to Digital Foundry that the new disc format being beta tested in a new dashboard upgrade adds 1GB to the storage of Xbox 360 game discs.
Only 1 gb more? That doesn't seem like very much.
15% increase shouldn't be sniffed at. Lets hope this space is given to the developers
Well I didn't sniff anything, whatev that means. I'm just saying if they are going through this effort to expand storage, why only 1GB?
@DrStabwounds well looks like they are changing (reducing) how they use the copy protection that is on the disk (about 1.6 GB) so I don't think they can get more than 1 GB, but I'm not sure.
It's not rocket science they couldn't make the disc drive read a new form a disc. So there left with 1 option, lower the amount of encryption needed for each game. DVD 9's have 8.5GB of storage, only 7GB in the past was able to be used for game content. 1.5GB was saved for copyright protection. They have changed the size of the copyright protection from 1.5GB to 500MB leaving 8GB for games storage as I understand it.
How much do you think it might relate to developers asking for more space....? What about the expected announcement of a new GTA game this year? If any game needs every kilobyte on the disc its that game. GTA4 was one of the first titles to barely fit on 360's disc format, it had to be squeezed and compressed to fit. Microsoft know losing GTA to be a PS3 exclusive because of disc space would be a huge disaster.
A healthy sum indeed! Why that's... *holds pinky finger to mouth* One Miiiillion Kilobytes!
Microsoft is making strides with that extra 1 GB! /sarcasm
Well considering the best looking console game this generation only uses 5.5gig, I would say just one gig improves the capacity quite a bit. http://n4g.com/news/726130/... Alsos since that game has a good solid 10 hour campaign, I would say that explodes the myth that the dvd9 format is holding back game length. On the otherhand, other consoles have other games that have 35+gig of bink video on them, and still there are compression artifacts. It makes you wonder...
Thanks Menech, looks like you know what your talking about and I'll assume what your saying is the situation. Thanks for the clarity.
@BI66er "Well considering the best looking console game this generation only uses 5.5gig" Its funny you say that because if I remember correctl, it was people like you claiming disc space and bluray has nothing to do with graphics (which is true) yet here you are being a hypocrite. Trolls will be trolls.
Well, it's nothing revolutionary, but that's better than nothing.
@menech - Bubbles up for saying the most logical thing. @B1663r - Crysis 2 is not the best looking game on consoles. You need to play more games if you think that. It is not even the best looking game on 360. It is probably the best looking game on PC though, which is what I'm currently playing it on.
a few hackers come out and say it is a change of this or that doesnt amount to much when you factor in there are ways to use a bigger disc without much in the way of hardware change. Some time ago there was talk and product of a higher capacity DVD that used the same red laser that is in every dvd player. VMD i think it was and it used layers that were thinner than the current dual layer tech and allowed for 3 or 4 layers to be used. Being thinner and closer together also alowed for the laser to read them with less cross talk. So technically it could be possible for them to roll out games on a higher capacity dvd. A dvd15 or 20 if it were. The idea of reducing the security partition on the disc is plausible provided they have improved their security protection to deter pirates. Otherwise it would be like overburning a dvd to get more space. Problem with overburned discs is there is a physical restriction as to how far the head can move in and out to read information. I used to overburn cd's and some would not play in older cd-rom's but newer drives could read them. A fw update can change how a laser can read/write discs but it cant change how the head moves. I have been able to flash some -R burners to write to +R media (older single format drives) using custom fw.
I wonder if this has anything to do with GTA V. I specifically remember rockstar saying that Microsoft needs to do something about it's storage issues for the next GTA, since GTA 4 pretty much maxed it out or something.
While I'm sure it will be nice I doubt it's gonna make much of a impact. Honestly there are probably VERY few games out there that would have benefited from only a extra gig. I mean the issue was the small amount of space on the DVD and just freeing up some space on the DVD doesn't help it doesn't make the overall thing much bigger and thus probably won't help. For example one of the bigger complaints is that the game companies have to pay for any disc past 2( it may be just past 1 but I don't remember) Bottom line is any game that needed to be on an extra disc isn't gonna benefit from 1 extra gig because if that was all the space the game needed to stay on a single disc the devs would have found a way to compress it to work on one. As it stands I don't even know if 1 gig is enough for an extra voice track or something. Certainly not from a RPG or game with alot of dialog ala Red Dead or GTA or something of the like.
8GB is still a limit for developers. I wonder how many games have been limited because of the space issues. It's clear the more space you have, the more content you can have (MGS4, Uncharted 2, etc). Maybe next gen, Microsoft will just give in to Sony and use Blu-Ray discs.
@OneSneakyMofo - each developer is different, some are better than others at fitting more on a disk. they just need to be more creative. when you have more than enough room you can just throw everything on it. sometimes more is not that desirable if less runs faster. this is where the ability of the developer comes in. optimisation can make a huge difference verses a lazy developer. larger files can equal longer load times, when compressed files can run in realtime. of course all developers would like more space for economic reasons, to keep man hours at a minimum with optional installs, i really don't have an issue with 2+ discs given i have room to store them. it's a case of working with what you have. but yeah, MS should go blu-ray next gen as they are not "paying" Sony and really too bad if they were. Sony are just part of the partnership in Blu-ray. I see the Blu-ray format much more desirable from a home theatre (all-in-one) point of view than games. it is the standard and most people want one if they don't already have one. this gives people another reason to buy the console. there are a lot of PS3 owners who use the console primarily or almost exclusively as a Blu-ray/media player. you don't have that demographic so much in the xbox. but next-gen games will need more storage without a doubt
There is still a limit, but any addition is a good addition. Better than them doing nothing.
That is enough to add approx. 8 black ops multiplayer maps.
LOL. They would charge you $35 tho.
um wtf is 1gb supposed to do? a 3 disc game will still be 3 disc, etc. i see some games benifiting like mayybe a shooter, but other genres wont benifit. probably didnt increase it much becaus that reduces load times. and if the disc goes to fast the laser will die faster, hence why the ps3 always has mandatory installs because its disc drive speed is at 1 to preserve lense life. anyway i guess 1gb is better than nothing, not that it does anything
15% increase is better than 0%. and how will it do nothing? do you think developer are going to ignore it seeing as how space has been an issue for so many years? they'll use it, and if you don't think so your dumb.
About 98% of all 360 games are on 1 disc. This is giving 98% of games a little more space to add and/or improve in the future. Yes, there are still going to be a small percent of games on multiple discs... so this is good news for most.
@ midgard227. you are exactly right. this really is another non-issue issue in this industry. a chance for fanboys to repeat their tired old zero tolerance BS they seem so obsessed about.
Potential benefits, - Less compression - A three disc game can become a two disc game - A two disc game might be able to fit onto one disc - More space for assets on the disc (video, audio, etc) Game length generally isn't related to space as much as some are lead to believe. You can have huge textures on your disc but it'll still be limited to what the engine and hardware can handle in terms of size. A game like Just Cause 2 for example arguably has one of the largest game worlds on consoles with pretty good detail and physics. Far Cry 2 is another example (it's something ridiculously small like 3 GB's or so when installed on a 360). In regards to length, RPG's are a good example when it comes to the space vs length argument.
Thank you Midgard! I havent laughed like this in quite some time. I particularly like "if the disc goes too fast, the laser will die faster" trololol thats epic. Everyone knows the lazer spins the disc and gets really exhausted if it has to do it too fast. Anyway, in regard to this whole format business, Id say that if MS is botheing to do it, there must be a reason for it. They may not be as intelligent as some posters here but I suspect 1gb really does make some difference...
I look at Crysis 2 and how it is a much longer and prettier game than Killzone 3 and I wonder where exactly dvd limitations come in since Crytek didn't even use the entire dvd to make their masterpiece
Will I think Killzone 3 looked better its all subjective.
Nope KZ3 looks better. Thank God for the power of blu ray. Why do you think M$ is trying to upgrade for more space. They need to because the 360 tech is becoming dated
I agree crysis 2 looks better than killzone 3
they couldn't fit more code to make the A.I smarter in Crysis 2. thats why the enemies A.I in that game are dumb. well, in KZ3 its a different story. plus the online in KZ3 is way better.
try putting crysis in 3d with move support, botzone and co-op campaign and tell me if it fits on DVD9.
which one looks better can be argued but which one runs better, plays better, and has better levels and ai easily goes to Killzone
Whether or not people think that KZ3 or UC2 looked better, Crysis 2 proved that Blu ray wasn't necessary for excellent graphics or a long campaign. In fact, if you look at files on a BD-ROM, most of the storage is used for high-end sound and CGI. The actual game data is relatively small on most games that are high in overall GB used. I still like the options that Blu ray provides, but in the end, developers are what get the most out of consoles - not storage options.
I don't think you should downplay the impact that high quality audio has on the gaming experience. Granted, not all of us can have nice audio systems to accompany our screens, but trust me some of us notice and appreciate the difference.
Exactly, it's amazing that they could fit this game with its wide variety of textures and huge scale worlds onto a tiny DVD...goes to show what developers Crytek are!
Not only does Killzone 3 look better but the surround sound is also better!
what did you expect? a blu ray size lol
Really doesn't seem like much. I don't see any 2-disc games suddenly becoming a 1-disc game.
1GB is awful if they hope to compete with sony graphics wise,even the extra 256 of memory wont help much. Over time both sony an microsoft will create newer and more efficient graphics tools & library's but sony will always have the advantage due to cell and blue ray...anyway i heard the extra GB is for kinetc stability...??
For all the disagrees in the other articles when some people were trying to explain this and nobody seemed to care trying to understand: "The maximum space allocated to game data on the current disc format is just 6.8GB out of a maximum of 7.95GB on a standard dual layer DVD, with over 1GB dedicated to a DVD-Video partition that also contained anti-piracy security sectors. Astonishingly, this meant that the last generation PlayStation 2 had a higher level of raw storage available to games developers than the newer Xbox 360. It seems that this video partition has either been drastically reduced or omitted completely in the new format Microsoft is looking to roll-out."
Well we don't really know if this is whats happening...it has only been speculated about a 1 gb and security update by Digital Foundry's hacker source...What we do know is that it was reported that Microsoft needed beta testers for " A NEW DISC FORMAT" now I don't know about you but a file system update to me doesn't cut it as "A NEW DISC FORMAT" So we could still see some version of VMD or higher density DVD disc's...could be wrong but I'll wait for M$ to clear this one up...we'll know soon enough anyway..."E3 is gonna rock"
They call themselves "MICRO"soft after all...
It's impressive from a percentage standpoint, and given the limitations of the format, but it's a FAR cry from the hype the anti-Blu-Ray crowd was throwing at it the last couple of days. Most games that would have spanned two discs will still need to.
So all that's happening is a security codec update which frees up 1GB.
The media needs to get their facts straight. Freeing up security space on a disc is not a new disc format. It helps but it's not a new format.
well it could still be a new Disc Format If Major Nelson says so, I don't know about you but i tend to rather trust someone official from the Xbox team rather then some anonymous source.
im sorry but this made me laugh
7.8Gb, still smaller than PS2 game's then.
lol the irony
yeah....... totally considering ps2 games were on 4.7gb dvd+r and xbox 360 games are on dvd+r dl discs which can hold up to 8.5gb. is u stupid?
While it's true that most games were on single layer DVD's, the PS2 did have the capability of reading dual layer discs as well. Also of importance, the copy protection didn't inhibit disc space like it does on the 360 either.
well extra 1gb will help, not alot but it will help.
Developers don't have to decrease texture quality to fit their game into 1 Dual Layer DVD, anymore. Remember that Forza 3's second DVD has 1.3GB extra content.
Seriously? That one single example just so happened to work out that way. Just imagine what they could've done with the main game with, say double the space... Not all games are created equally nor do they work out to be the exact same size. Dev's have to make sacrifices to squeeze them onto a specific medium. Setting the ceiling so low, either at 6.8 or 8GB was a big mistake by MS from the beginning, a decision which has only inhibited developers.
I agree with you that Microsoft's DVD decision was a big mistake from the beginning. At least 15GB(x2=30GB, x3=45GB, x3extended=50GB) HD-DVD would be good for games. But most of games don't take so many GBs. Like Mass Effect. Another game on the edge of DVD-DL capacity. It's so clear that BioWare decreased something to fit in that DVD. Content, Texture or whatever. SO, 1GB is something, sometimes!
"we dont need extra space"
The argument always was that the security stuff was in the middle so it was just eliminating the slow-read access data in the middle. They've added 1gb of data, but it will also be accessible at a much slower rate than the rest of the disk, and slower than a blu ray quite a bit too.
I think Microsoft are desperate if they resorting to this tactic in exchange for a mere gig. Devs would not be happy with this cause it can make the whole pirating games so easy like it was child's play..
This lends towards MS habit of reinventing the Xbox every few years. All of the other updates with dashboard redesigns, the slim and Kinect, have all been done as if a whole new console were being released. This is just further PR value than anything else.
The NDA they make people sign says "Hi!"
Ripping a 360 game is already easy. MS might as well remove the protection completely to free up even more space.
GTA devs approve
This is why hyping things is bad. You are only setting yourself up for crushing disappointment. Anyone who expected a radical change in CD memory without changing the diskdrive is retarded. wikkid666: you know the memory that is on a disk.
A cd and a dvd are totally different things. And calling people retards and making a statement like that is just plain foolish.
I ment the xbox 360 disk format ok.
I dunno, I'm still waiting for official comment by MS. There are dual-layer DVDs out there that hold 17GBs, and they are compatible with the current DVD drive tech. I never thought anything drastic like Blu-ray was coming, but adding ANOTHER 8 gigs, on top of the 8 gigs the Xbox 360 DVD discs now appear to have would be of GIGANTIC benefit to a hell of a lot of developers. Hopefully MS is using this same line of thought ...