It was Sony’s removal of OtherOS that motivated the hackers to pursue the PS3. “We only started looking at the PS3 after OtherOS was killed.” It would have never happened had Sony only kept the original OtherOS feature intact.
buying a PS3 just for linux is just stupid as Linux is better on a PC (more open]
i had linux on PS3 and it was useless to me.
I had Linux and I actually enjoyed the feature. I got to mess around with the OS (which I had almost never used) and got NES and SNES emulators running with my Sixaxis and had almost beaten Chrono Trigger (a game I never played). I was pretty disappointed by the removal of Other OS, but it was the hackers that forced Sony to remove it anyway. I feel like this hacking is such a pointless exercise at this point. Sony will just keep updating the firmware and the online play and trophies outweigh my need to steal games. If OtherOS was a bigger concern to these people than actually playing games, they had the choice to not update or just buy a PC. It is obvious that these hackers simply want to be seen as justified in their actions, and are trying to market themselves as hero's.
Lol this was the the ONLY reason to do it. No Other reason why. If that was the only reason then why the hell share it? Hackers are fuking morons there all like oh i broke the ps3 hahaha. Then Sony will fix it or atleast try and then every1 is back at square 1. However if they kept it to emselves they could enjoy having shitty linux back and no1 wud be any the wiser
Lol they think they are some fearsome group like the mafia who Sony never should have wronged. They were trying for years and couldn't do it, and they only managed it because someone stole Sony's debug thing.
Very good read. Everyone wants to bash the hackers, but I hear no one bashing Sony for removing features that people paid their hard earned money for. Once again Sony can do no wrong in some peoples eyes.
I'm pretty sure that Sony removed OtherOS BECAUSE of hackers...not the way it's said here.
If you followed this story, these hackers are the same hackers who hacked the wii and created the homebrew channel.. This team even presented "Wii Epic Fail" 2 years ago, at this same convention. Like they said, once they heard about to OtherOS removal, then they started trying to hack the ps3.. Yes other hackers have been trying to hack the ps3 for four years and couldnt do it, but these guys are the best, which only took them a year to hack. And for the guy who said that it was it was caused someone stealing sony's debug device. No, these guys have managed to hack it with no device whatsoever. If you saw the demo, the guy clearly hacked it with his computer using a ethernet lan cord.
@Heartnet Hacker's aren't "idiots" in fact they are smart enough to break a security which Sony hires professionals to take care of, that's being smart, you wouldn't know where to begin, and half those guys will be getting paid 100k+ by next year while you make 20k a year, k.
@HSx9 They are idiots for putting that they have hacked the ps3. It might be hacked now but now sony know about it they will try and stop it :) however if they didnt go around bragging then Sony would have been none the wiser P.s.. they say they have done it in 1 year but whose to say they havnt been working on this before a year ago lol.. Why would they not do it from the start? instead of leaving it until 4 years after release where anybody who wants to hack a console just got an xbox since its cheaper xD
No one paid for Linux. If you truly believe that then A) You didn't read this article which implies it bore Sony no financial hit to have or remove Linux (meaning it cost nothing, or next to nothing). And B) You're one of those people who jump on the hate bandwagon just because it gives you a reason to b1tch about something, which is what all "OtherOS" whiners do. It's a non-issue. Hackers tried hacking the PS3 for years, and failed. OtherOS had nothing to do with it. Hell, Geohot's hack was, according to him, supposed to be to gain access to the RSX and really had nothing to do with Linux other than he used Linux as a base for his attempt. The hackers are lying. Removal of OtherOS isn't why they tried to hack the PS3. They were already trying from the get go. They were trying to hack the PS3 for piracy. Plain and simple. If you really don't believe that, you're naive. If anyone truly believes that the hackers would only do it for emulators, then you're just going to be taken for a fool a lot in life. Free games vs. $60 a game, what do you think most people would do, especially being broke as most people are these days?
@Hsx No, hackers are stupid by just doing what they perceieve as a challenge, while harming the population of gamers who want to use the system for its intended purpose. With hackers for PS3 emerging (well eventually, and only the true ones, not the ones who get a USB stick and say I AM TEH HAXORZ) Sony has to spend time working on security patches instead of new system features. Hackers cause the removal of features, like the otherOs and also cause us to have to waste time downloading patches directly aimed at hackers. While some hackers do it primarily for homebrew, and not pirating games, some still will. This cuts devs of a share of their money and therefore makes them less inspired to continually make games. Hackers annoy me. A lot.
I find it ironic that people complain about hackers, while the company that advertised the feature, that has the power to let the feature remain and actually removed the feature is getting a free pass as the right thing to do. Let me ask you this: a) Do you ban cars, because some people use it while drunk and kill people? b) Do you ban medicine, because it can be used to harm people? Without further elaborating, it is clear that the select few will always find ways to screw up, but that doesn't mean everyone else should be punished by the actions of the few. Piracy certainly is an issue, but we have all seen how MS (via Xbox) has been able to grow their user-base despite the piracy available on said platform. Hackers will always do what hackers do, you can't stop them, you can't prevent them, and you can't get rid of them no more than you can get rid of crime. It's part of doing business, but that shouldn't punish the legitimate consumers!
To any one screaming piracy please realize Devs and publishers are hurt more by used game sales. The trade in rate for hd games are very very high. Giving otheros back might have actualy stoped a few hacker from teaming up to hack it. Suddently they all had a reason to ban together. Plus I'm sure they might not have as much it work these days with the recession and all. Another thing is I'm pretty sure more people will buy a ps3 for free games. They will eventually buy games that they want right away. Otheros was such a better way to stop them from a complete hack.
Sony did NOT ban OtherOS. Sony simply told you to choose between that or PSN access. Its their service. If you want to use it, then you have to abide by their policies that prevent you from any possible mods or hackings. Its like the no shirts, no shoes, no service policy. You could choose to follow their policy, and receive their service. Or you could keep your shirt and shoes off, but you just won't get served.
@gamingdroid A) the government and car makers are looking at having driver-less cars to replace the current cars on the road today. Because of the reason you give and many others, expect them to be main stream with in 5 years, the chevy volt is a driver-less car and many cars can put on the breaks without you pressing the break pedal already. B) marijuana is a medicine but it's a banned subsince. Coca leaves are a medicine as well but it's banned as well because people turn it into cocaine. While I'm not overly fussed about the hacking saying it's so they can have Linux installed on a PS3 is a lame excuse as Sony only had OtheOS so people could do home-brew in the first place and if these hackers couldn't do home-brew with OtherOS then how are they going to make home-brew on a hacked PS3. Saying people want to run emulators so they can play the newest rip of Atari's 8-bit 2D pong cart on a PS3 is a laugh as well. and again ripping those carts is piracy as well. copyright lasts for 100 years Before a game is abandoned-ware all the copyright holders have to say they have released the copyright on the software and only very few games have had that done and in many cases it's only been done when the company has folded.
the people who did not update would NOT be able to play any game online or get patches for games they buy(games this gen have gotten uber glitchy lazy sodding devs) how the hell is that fair lose online or lose a feature that was consciously in the consumers buying decision and it was advertised as a feature
rockleex its more like going and stoping at like a food stand there you buy your meal and drink and pay for it then havine the food stand hang up a sign thats says NO Shirt NO Shoes No Service And NO Refunds You standin like wtf I'm at beach of course I dont have a shirt and shoes on. They be yeah we cant serve you So you like fine give my money back I'll just go eat over there at that place They like sorry we cant do that no refunds
@DragonKnight - You just proved the point yourcall was making with his last sentence.
That's the whole point. Sony makes you choose to only run linux or only use it for games, but not both. When it was first sold you could run either one and not have to choose.
And yet 1% of the userbase were the only ones to actually use that feature. Sony saw it as a waste of memory and removed it based on consumer use. When 99% aren't using it, why keep the feature? For the 1% that will b1tch about not having it?
Sony saw it as a waste of memory and removed it based on consumer use? Come on DragonKnight, you don't really believe that, do you? OtherOS was removed because the feature could be exploited to allow direct access to the hypervisor, plain and simple. The truth is that Sony had absolutely no way to know how many people were using OtherOS, so 99%/1% ratio has no validity. The removal of the feature by firmware update was a kneejerk reaction to attempt to prevent piracy. I'm not saying whether it was right or wrong for Sony to do, but let's at least call it what it is.
More than likely it was a bit of both. Why have a features that provides a possible weakness in your system when most people don't use it? It's sound business decision. ANd anyone who believe the hackers just started hacking the Ps3, I have super duper air you can't get anywhere else on earth for sale in this yohoo bottle. Only $500 per bottle. Come get some before they run out. The air makes you immune to HIV.
ReBurn speaks the truth positive bubbly vote for you dude. To anyone who uses the argument whats the point of having feature that nobody uses is an idiot everyone has the option of using it and doesn't it require more resources just to remove and is it not then wiser to give features people have been requesting for sometime now(cross voice chat says hello)
it was offered as an "OPTION TO INSTALL" which people are seeming to overlook. NOTICE the word Option! even after Sony removed Install other OS out of "their XMB" could you still retain it? Sony removed it off of their XMB unless you an other's are claiming ownership of the PS3's operating system? which is what these hackers an you are claiming the simple fact is the Linux that everyone keeps going on an on about an how these hacker's are doing such the world justice for the consumer is pure 100% BS. the reason why is very simple: do you own 100% ownership of software? so unless you make it right who retains ownership of said Software even Linux is open source freely distributable but you do not own the OS? than lets take that one step further. do you own the windows xp on your PC? no you have a licence to run it you do not own it even though you purchase the PC with it or buy a copy of window's. now lets take that toward where this pertains to the PS3 when you purchase the PS3 you own the hardware..not the software that's on it ESP...the XMB the XMB is the PS3's GUI thus removing Other OS out of the XMB is in full right of Sony ! they did not outright remove linux they removed the option out of the XMB! and it's not like they did it out right they gave the choice. but here is the kicker did the Slim ps3 come with install other OS inside the XMB at purchase? No so the hacker's are altering the XMB which is Sony's property. and No one other than Sony can claim ownership to that XMB. The XMB does not belong to them , but yet people are rooting these Hacker's on because it's a slight against Sony. they are also allowing anyone to "sign code" on a ps3 with their software they are going to distribute. they talk about security but yet they cannot patroll all the code that gets put out there even free ware IF there is any freeware that is! IF their Goal is to get linux running on the PS3 without restriction's are they going to help those with bricked PS3's that load programs from other software Homebrew maker's that have less scruples about remote access to your system and get your personal info..hey your PSN ID PASSWORD LOOKS PRETTY GOOD RIGHT NOW A KEY LOGGER WOULD BE A GREAT LIL PROGRAM TO RUN IN YOUR BACKGROUND do you sign into your PS3 online by typing your password everytime or is it auto signed in..lol well it would'nt matter because remember anyone can make signed code run on the ps3 1
Yeh i dont know why people are so Ubsessed with linux lol. if u want linux taht badly its free to download! it makes no sense to buy a ps3 soloey to use Linux lol. buy a ps3 for games then buy one of those £100 laptops that have linux as their main OS problem solved :)
Funny you can apply that to linux, but you can't apply it to blu-ray? Couldn't one ask why do some people buy a PS3 to play movies when they can buy a standalone BD player for cheaper now. See Heartnet, your theory is flawed.
@Dsi My theory is not flawed :L if people wanted a blu ray player they get a blu ray player :L Apparently at the time ps3 came out it was a cheap blu ray player. At this time people can get laptops and computers cheaper than a Ps3 so buying one to run linux and play emulatorsthey shudnt be playing has no logic to it since emulators dont exactly take up alot of power xD
^ "Emulators don't exactly take up alot of power" You definitely know what you're talking about.
I disagree, a gamecube emulator would use all teh power of da CELL!
why the hell would someone wanna run linux on the ps3. It didn't even run well, plus its just too much to boot it up and switch back and forth between linux and playing ps3 games. You would have been better off buying a cheap old computer at the flea market if you wanted to run linux
Yeah thats a bullshit excuse. "we started going after the ps3 after sony removed the other os feature" C'mon son get the f*ck outta here with that bullshit.
The hacking scene really started going after the PS3 when the slim released without OtherOS, not when Sony removed it from the older models. Let's keep to the timeline. And the blanket "Linux didn't run well" statements are laughable. Depending on the distro installed and whether your skill level warranted use of a graphical environment to work in determined performance. Not everyone needs to point and click, you know. I wish people actually knew what they were talking about instead of riding the bandwagon. Linux on PS3 was a learning opportunity, and many people took it as such. People who kill brain cells by only playing games all day couldn't possibly understand what that was like. Water under the bridge now.
Well, Linux on the PS3 actually was actually pretty good assuming you needed it for a specific purpose. For normal day to day use, it was pretty piss poor. The Cell processor excels at certain types of calculations and makes it a very cost-effective for those tasks. Linux is needed to get access to the Cell. Either way, it doesn't matter what the reason is or how bad Linux was on said device. The feature was available at point of sale, advertised in documentation and mentioned by high level executives in public. Removing that is something Sony should never have done!
@downwardspiral Why linux on the ps3, "It didn´t even run well". Well i guess USAF disagrees with you. http://search.japantimes.co... Because of the architecture the PS3 with linux was a cheap way to work with the cell prossesor, the problem was that the RSX was locked out on the linux side, which made it run badly for normal grapichal use as a windows oriented UI.
This article is pathetic. Sony removed it because of hacking, so they're blamed by hackers for removing it? And it's sites like this that exacerbate the situation and make sony look bad for trying to keep their system safe.
Sony got owned. Just as they got owned by Dark Alex and PSP. If this goes rampant..then the real power of PS3 will be unleashed. Emulators Hombrew Applications Games...
See that sounds all good and fun and I would love that but most these people are going to want it for piracy in my opinion. These guys most likely have their PC loaded to hell with everything they need why do it to the PS3? Piracy... thats just how I feel about it.
Bullshit Hackers always need an excuse. Why did Geohot hack the PS3 when Linux was there? It was because of the leaked original sony dongle that these guys could even do anything to the PS3. It would be impossible to hack if Sony service dongle wasnt reverse engineered.
Uh no. Sony took OtherOS/Linux from PS3 Slim in sept 2009. Geohot released the hack early 2010. It was still on PS3 fat, but thats another story. Sony said they took OtherOS from PS3 slim to save costs. But now the hackers have shown it runs on PS3 Slim, it was for a marketing reason or whatever that Sony took it, there was no reason technically to do it. That a side effect of hacking a device can be piracy and some other devs made it possible to run backups has nothing to do with Geohot or the hackers that showed their work @ Chaos 2010 in Berlin. Oh BTW when Sony decided to remove OtherOS after Geohots first hack, thats when things really got fired up at the hackers side to get back at Sony. So yeah... Try to read the article actually makes sense: "nother member reflected on why it took so long to break the PS3: “There is absolutely no doubt in our mind that the PS3 lasted as much as it did due to OtherOS. The security really is terribly broken.” -Choqok. ow every version of the PS3 can run Linux, even the Slim versions, as one member of FailOverflow makes clear, “…but then Sony decided to release the Slim. So they claimed they’re not going to support Linux because they want to save money. Well today we know this is bullshit because Linux just runs on Slim without any huge code modifications so it was just something they claimed but is certainly not true.” e know that OtherOS was removed from the Slim long before GeoHot did any hacking on the PS3. Now we learn that there are no technical nor financial reasons for removing OtherOS from the Slim either. This shows that Sony wished to be rid of OtherOS long before GeoHot did any hacking. It suggests that they used GeoHot as a scapegoat to remove OtherOS from the ‘phat’ PS3s simply because it no longer fit their business model. ichael Style goes on to say, “You could also look at it from another perspective, which is: If you just assume that the PlayStation that we have on that list was the old PlayStation where Linux was possible, and that was the whole reason, as I argue, that it never got hacked. It ran Linux already, it didn’t get hacked. Never. So now, lets look at how long did it take from the point when the system was closed from when it got hacked, and we have just 12 months.” @ the guy below: "ufo8mycat + 5m ago Who on EARTH would want to run Linux on a GAMING console? Run linux on a PC if you NEED to use it. That's what they are for." Because Sony first sold their PS3 for like 3 years that had the ability to do so? Its like the web browser on the PS3, if they take it out you can say "why have a web browser on a console? You can surf on a PC much better. Run a browser on a PC, thats what they are for." See what I did thur?
please people have been attempting to hack the ps3 since it came out, and many were attepting to do it through linux that's why it got removed. @POPE linux did have a point if you knew how to use it. i had mame, snes and genesis emulators running. ohhh well....
your point is.... Sony owns the software so they can do what the want with it. WHO complain about firmware updates that add more features then taken away. its sonys OS if they want to hake then erase everything of the ps3 that is sony software and let them have it then
so by your logic sony could take PSN away because it was not originally part of the ps3. it came via firmware updates. YOUR LOGIC FAILS stop whining like a spoiled brat
Your first statement and your fourth statement contradict each other. Credibility = None. Thanks.
Do you really expect Sony to sell PS3's at a loss, so people could pirate their games! Forget it! Just noticed who I'm replying to!
I agree this hack would have come due to pirates wanting to not pay for games. People don't learn to hack unless they want something for free or a really good job doing it. These guys are the former. The linux thing (other OS) was an excuse as the hack doesn't even bring back other OS with most consoles. As for somebody mentioning GEOHOT he couldn't hack the PS3 he gave up.
It's interesting that you say Geohot gave up, considering he just released a firmware decryption tool hours before you made this post: http://psx-scene.com/forums... I'm not sure what your definition of giving up is, but by my definition it seems like he's still quite active.
Hmm he did claim on his blog he had given up
Who on EARTH would want to run Linux on a GAMING console? Run linux on a PC if you NEED to use it. That's what they are for.
well yeah, but it's cool to have the option I guess
but its slow as hell, low res, and doesn't have enough ram to do anything serious unless you use it for hacking they know what they were doing and sony launch a early defense and they got pissed. ALL companies try to stop hackers get over it you are not special because you write code
To be fair, consoles do a lot of things these days. Play movies, stream media, browse the web. Believe it or not, some households have a console and either no PC or one from the 80's. I was in that camp last gen till i FINALLY and mercifully upgraded my PC. So while the browsing public may not be in the majority per say, they still exist. At the end of the day though, the number of people who used linux on their PS3 was REALLY REALLY small, so i don't think to Sony it was a big deal.
Anyone that's used Linux on PS3 knows it was pretty crappy and there was no access to the graphics card so it really sucked. Hackers were using the OtherOS feature to look for exploits, so when they removed it made it seem like they were trying to hide/prevent something. I doubt they just started trying to hack the PS3 4 years later.
F ing hackers are going to screw with sony and we PS3 owners get the wrath of sony not them. what if sony takes my browser and ability to download stuff of the web so they can stop the hackers. hypothetical I VOW these hackers want war but they don't know their enemies D BAGS
I wouldn't be surprised if they take such action, basically closing off the system. Obviously the hacks would still be possible through physical modification (likely anyway) like PS2, but it's what they'd prefer considering it becomes much less accessible. XBOX had the same situation originally, but they reduced the only viable hack to the jtagging, as a physical mod it's much easier to detect and result in console bans/psn bans. Console bans have been proven to increase system sales so if smart that'll be the direction Sony are pursuing. Sadly hackers are, generally quite stupid (in this respect at least) and will typically rebuy the system multiple times after bans. Bearing in mind these are typically the ones stupid enough to use the new found facilities to pirate games, it seems it'd be wiser to purchase games legitimately in the first place. I imagine this will send sales soaring in underdeveloped countries though.
You do realize that they posted the security weaknesses one by one. They may have cracked the system but by announcing it Sony knows what they did wrong.
12 months to hack!! hackers... they only hack everything!!
Only one person is to blame for starting all of this b-b-b-bullshit... Geohot. AKA. George Hotz (Attention Whore)
Well Geohot only started to attempt hacking after Sony announced the Slim would not support Linux for financial reasons. We now know it's a lie according to these hackers as they have shown that Slim is able to run OtherOS as perfectly as normal Phat PS3.
Yeah.. but Geohot helped with creating PSJailbreak. Edit @ below: Yes, He did.
lol he had no relation to psjailbreak. Where are you getting your bogus info from?
enkeixpress is right. http://n4g.com/news/590654/... Geohot is the one to blame.
People need to stop the Bullsh1t about other OS removal and hackers only wanting to get Other OS feature back. Do you guys think that if they would be cabable of getting it back that it would only stop there? Geo was in the process of configuring a CFW at the time but chose not to release it. CFW that enables other OS. Now question whats stopping other hackers from using it then doing geo exploit then creating their own CFW which creats a Softmod to hack your PS3???
True http://s2.n4g.com/media/11/... Dont you just want to punch that face?
Thanks for showing me his face, I will now whoop his ass if I ever see him. He will be unrecognizable afterwards
Linux was just the excuse to justify what plenty tried already , and were going to achieve eventually someday . After all when the victim is a greedy corporation that hurt your fuzzy linux feelings , you are suddenly robin hood . instead of the thieving scum you actually are