Lazygamer Compares Lap Times : Forza 3 vs GT5 vs Real Life

Lazygamer's resident petrol head tests the lap times in Forza 3 and GT 5, comparing them to real-life track times to see which game is is the better simulator.

"Ever wondered how close the lap times in games like Gran Turismo and Forza Motorsport come to the real thing?

We have been wanting to run this feature for just about forever, but had to wait for Gran Turismo to be released before we could do it properly. In this test we carefully selected two car/track setups to compare lap times with the real thing.

We sourced the real fastest lap times for each car on its respective track and then compared them to Gran Turismo 5 and Forza Motorsport 3.

Want to know which of the two is really the most accurate driving simulator? Hit the jump to find out."

[PirateThom]

This is barely worth comparing, Turn 10 already admitted to widening and changing tracks to make them more "fun" online. The fact GT5 is closer to real world times should pretty much show where the realism lies.

[ryuzu]

The numbers are somewhat interesting, however they've only compared 2 tracks so it's hardly an exhaustive test.

If you can't be bothered to read it, GT5 "wins" (according to the site - seems a rather pointless term here) both comparisons because it is closer to the real world lap times.

r.

[thereapersson]

People don't care how accurately modeled the tracks are. All they care about is how fast they can enter a turn without having to slow down before hand. Judging your speed before entering a turn? What sort of nonsense is that? I've seen plenty of people attempt to take turns at maximum velocity in GT: 5 and then end up in the grass, sliding all the way over to the wall. Then they complain because the physics don't allow their tires to achieve superglue-like grip on the pavement.

If what you say is true, then how can we even compare the two with any sort of equality? Wait, I think I just answered my own question...

Here's the thing: If you are going to model your game upon a lifelike platform such as simulation racing, naturally there is going to be some aspect of the title that isn't going to be as fun or involving at first. If you ask me, modifying a racing game that you are pushing so hard to be labeled as a "simulation" in a way that makes it more accessible and "fun" for the casual masses ends up taking away from the hardcore nature that simulations tend to have. Just as you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs, you can't just make a racing champion overnight without first weeding out the bad driving tendencies that everyone has by nature.

It's like playing nothing but Ace Combat, and then wondering why it takes you an hour to even master getting your plane off the ground in Microsoft Flight Simulator. The difference is night and day, but unfortunately the trolls and ignorant gaming media completely ignore any semblance of common sense that is required when discussing such a subject.

[Game-ur]

I notice Forza isn’t referred to as a simulator anymore.

[ShinMaster]

Time and track accuracy:
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Pro opinion:
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[The Lazy One]

how did it take you that long to take off in flight simulator? taking off is pretty much the easiest thing to do in that game regardless of aircraft.

[frostypants]

A better analogy would be going from Ace Combat to Aces High online. But yeah, same result...poor saps wouldn't get off the ground, as it models engine torque and they'd likely roll into the tower. Hell, they probably wouldn't even get the engine started.

[JokesOnYou]

green + 4d ago | Intelligent These are lap times posted by the best stock car drivers in Forza 3 vs official Nurburgring lap times posted by the manufacturers.

Audi R8 V10 = 7.44secs
Forza 3
Audi R8 V10 = 07:45.091

Audi RS4 = 8:25
Forza 3
Audi RS4 = 08:30.807

Ferrari 458 italia = 07.38
Forza 3
Ferrari 458 = 07:28.700

Nissan GTR = 07.38
Forza 3
Nissan GTR = 07.41

Lamborgini Gallardo Superleggera = 07.46
Forza 3
Lamborgini Gallardo Superleggera = 07:50.682

Porsche 911 Turbo 997 = 07.54
Forza 3
Porsche 911 Turbo 997 = 07:58.419

Aston Martin DBS = 08.02
Forza3
Aston Martin DBS = 08:00.099

http://forums.forzamotorspo...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

I Could go on and on to show how close Turn10 have come with the Forza franchise, so to sit there and call Forza 3 an arcade game goes to show how ignorant you are.

Turn10 had insight into actual car manufacturer stats and racing teams that no one in the industry could get that is why they were bullish ie like using Hamiltons F1 sim data to aid in the development in Forza 3 and also to help in the simulation of dirty air. http://www.computerandvideo...

The only way that urn10 were able to get that data is because Microsoft supplies McLaren with all their software for all their racing programs etc.

As i said earlier, to call Forza 3 a mere arcade game is just pure ignorance.
http://n4g.com/news/653216/...

-Forza3 is a helluva game and generally received better reviews than GT5, doesn't make it true, just means in the opinion of most reviewers Forza3 was a better overall game, thats just the facts...Now if YOU still believe personally that GT5 is a better game then thats just great for you but to say Forza3 is not a simulator just comes off sounding like the bitter tears of a over emotional GT fanboy. lol

[Dee_91]

actually the game times are suppose to be faster
seeing that your regards for dying isnt in the game so u can push the further than in real life

kaz got a faster time on gt5 than his record in the same lexus he drove around nurburgring in real life

[ChronoJoe]

@Jokesonyou

Higher score doesn't = better game. Even IGN say it's better than Forza whilst giving it a lower score. Forza was released with no competition. So of course it's scores are so grand, doesn't mean critics prefer it now.

Forza 3 didn't have a review embargo either. Meaning the palms of reviewers were greased... I don't know why Sony don't do the same mind you, really silly. Uncharted 2 didn't have one either, large part of the reason it's first 20 scores were perfect.

[The Maxx]

Bumped for Forza 3 reference. Thanks Jokesonyou and Green

[DigitalAnalog]

Pointless article: I'd bet NONE of these journalists ever heard of this:

Gran Turismo 5 "Data Logger Visualization Technology"

"This is the new technology Polyphony Digital (the makers or Gran Turismo) are developing with another aftermarket company to make it so that ones car has data recorded when on the track using GPS technology. Then that data is plugged into a PS3 and then Gran Turismo will simulate that person’s driving. This is shown in this video."

- Vizworld.com

So… “Data Logger Visualization Technology.” That’s a long and uninformative name. Technology that visualizes… data. Data that was at some point logged. What they’re trying to say is that they loaded up a real race car with monitoring gadgets and took note of a bunch of data — steering, throttle, G-force, and all that stuff — and logged it into a file. This file can be read by Gran Turismo 5 and produce essentially a 1:1 recreation of an actual real-world lap. Sure, you could race your own ghost, but why would you, when you can race Michael Schumacher’s?

This is only possible because the tracks and cars are simulated with such meticulous detail in GT5. Various scanning and storage technologies have allowed an almost unbelievable amount of precision, and although it’ll never be the same as actually going 140 around whatever circuit, it’s getting miiighty close.

- Crunchgear.com

Here is an example.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

-End of Line

[jellybalboa]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm interesting

[Dark-Cloud]

thank you for puting that video :D .. but that's gtp not gt5 :D , imagin gt5 !!! XD
people always troll but they don't know anything about the game , they work soo hard to make the gameplay - graphics .........etc , we don't know anything about the game , how did they make the game ?!! physics ?!!..etc

we just say wow or troll ...

[frostypants]

Holy crap.

Not sure everyone will realize how impressive that really is. That can only work if the track and car modeling are DEAD accurate.

[Masterchef2007]

PD went all out with the premium cars. They are the most realistic looking cars i have seen to date

[emekcrash]

Its funny how no Xbot is fighting over this video. Why? Well, they just got totally owned.

[MNicholas]

and GT4 won that comparison as well.

None of the Forza games have had accurate track modeling but the first game was the worst offender.

[Kon_Artist]

"It's like playing nothing but Ace Combat, and then wondering why it takes you an hour to even master getting your plane off the ground in Microsoft Flight Simulator"

I can relate

[Belasco]

"fun". priceless.

[Denethor_II]

I had my pal Wez, who is a noob to gaming, play Forza, and then GT5. Same cars and tracks. Forza, he wizzed round the track. GT5, on the first left turn he was on the grass. When I explained to him to drive like it was a real car, as opposed to a game, his concentration level increased and he was able to finish the track. He felt more like he had achieved somthing afterwards, and became addicted to it.
I should make a video, as it was really interesting, although on my part quite sad, to watch my experiment unfold.

[Masterchef2007]

that is exactly the problem with many people. They treat GT5 like an arcade racer based on their previous experience with Forza 3. When in reality GT5 is a driving SIM

[Pedobear Rocks]

Forza is NOT a simulator...it is a realistic arcade racer maybe...but not a simulator. Stop mentioning it in the same breath as GT5.

[vhero]

Exactly Pendobear but the thing is it has so many similarities to GT thats why its always compared to it and seen as one.

[Pedobear Rocks]

Well...I see cars and tracks...after that the similarities diverge...alot.

[bumnut]

Forza is not a simulator? at least i can upgrade my brakes and have damage from the start.

unlocking damage it not very simulator like is it ?

im having fun with gt5 but they made some strange decisions when making it.

[Goeres]

So, how should a new/beginner be able to pay for repairs, both mechanical and his doors/bumpers been smashed off?

[DigitalAnalog]

Don't bother responding to him. According to his logic "simulators" are supposed to replicate real-life to the point when he crashes his car into the game (since he obviously has no seatbelt on), he should faceplant his stearing wheel out of the intense "simulation" on screen.

-End of Line

[bumnut]

"So, how should a new/beginner be able to pay for repairs, both mechanical and his doors/bumpers been smashed off?"

don't crash then! sims are not meant to be easy, they are meant to be real (or close to real)

[bunfighterii]

I agree with Goeres. If you played GT5 you'd realise why damage is a phase in- it's a game with a steep learning curve.

[jellybalboa]

bumnut your name should be bumhurt

[Pedobear Rocks]

The cars are not near to real in their handling.

The tracks are not real.

Those two points there invalidate any thing else that you may think makes it a 'simulator'.

Protip: Mario can't teach you to be a plumber.

[thereapersson]

You: "it's not a sim if it doesn't have enough damage"

GT Fan: Well if you're a good enough driver, or someone that is aspiring to be, you won't need damage early on because you have to concentrate on driving well.

You: *finds out that repairs would cost career-ending amounts of money should damage be activated early on*

You: "Hey guys, you should really take the simulation aspect seriously! Damage? Well, just don't crash your car then!"

Quit backpedaling.

[T9X69]

@Goeres

"So, how should a new/beginner be able to pay for repairs, both mechanical and his doors/bumpers been smashed off?"

With the money you make from races? Or have that little handy thing called "assists". Forza has the option to make damage, off, cosmetic, limited, or simulation. It also has tons of options like STM, TCM, ABS, etc for the people who aren't that good at driving simulators. Forza is a driving simulator but also has the options to make it more "arcady" for people who suck at them that way the game can be enjoyable by all. Turn off all the assist and put damage on simulation, go 100MPH and smash into a wall and see what happens. I guarantee you wont be able to finish the race, or even be able to drive off and if you do chances are you won't make it out of 1st gear because of how bad your car is messed up on the inside.

Forza 3 offers full simulation from the start of the game, or more arcade style if you can't handle full simulation. If you start a race with damage on simulation at the start of the game and play bumper cars to finish first, almost half if not more of your winnings will be deducted after the race to repair the damage done to your car.

I don't see why GT5 just couldn't have the option to have full damage on from the start for those who want to take the challenge. GT5 isn't destruction derby so if your playing the game you shouldn't be trying to crash anyway, and if an accident happens you pay for it, and if you have no money left because of crashes that should be your fault for not paying more attention to what your doing.

[ryuzu]

^^ If you'd played GT5 you'd start to understand - but it seems trolling GT5 articles is more fun for you.

BTW : The wheels for 360 still suck - incl. the Fanatec which is only matched by the 360 itself for breaking (although I do like my clubsport pedals despite the ropey wiring hanging of the back).

r.

[acedoh]

bumnut you don't seem to understand that if it were a true sim it would not be fun at all at first. People would be destroying their cars and have nothing to race with. GT5 is all about learning how to drive and use that skill to race on real world tracks. Whenever you learn something new you will make lots of mistakes. And in real life there is no way that they will put you into a race car without experience. GT5 at least lets you get into a car from the start and start racing it. There would be no purpose if you destroyed it. Also using damage as an indication of reality you will have a hard time finding a game like that. Forza may have damage but it is no where close to real. Any time you hit something at over 100 mph it is not going to operate after that. Also the operator would be lucky to survive that type of accident in a normal vehicle with no type of racing frame.

[Goeres]

Forza is not really a simulator though, it's simolatorISH.

But yea, you need to actually play GT5 (not just a snooze arcade raze at your local store, but actually lvl in GTmode) to understand why there is a lvl system in the first place.

To repair your engine costs like 50 quid, and the rig is another 30. (might've mixed em up but you get the point) That's one of the reasons mechanical dmg is unlocked at lv20 where you'll be able to afford it.

[adamx]

bum, stfu!

[nycredude]

Bumnut

SO you think it is more important for a racing simulator to have real damage (albeit calling Forza damage model realistic is a serious stretch) and the ability to change brakes than it is for the driving pshysics and courses to be modeled correctly.

Okay... This place has a way of just messing people's perception up.

Just in case you haven't notice it's called real driving simulator not real crashing simulator or real brake upgrading simulator.

AND you can hardly call a game a simulator when the cars miraculously fix themselves after each race.

But I digress... Arguing on N4g is akin to chasing your tail. You go round and round and round until you finally bite it, and then realize it hurts and you question why you tried in the first place.

[cyguration]

@Goeres

Isn't that why GT5 is supposed to be the superior sim?

You can also turn damage on and off in Forza but at the expense of less experience/cash. In fact, all the things that make it a simulator can be turned on and off for newbs or core gamers.

I like having damage on so you can't do what I like to call the high-speed sling-shot turn where on pavement tracks (with damage off) you can rest the car along the side of a barrier and at full speed take the turn without slowing down. If you try that with damage on your side mirror breaks off the doors dent and you spin out.

[djfullshred]

I'm laughing at this debate...with both games it is a concious decision from the game makers to decide how much simulation versus how much gaming to balance the game the way they think is best.

For those that want absolutely the most realistic experience possible, they need a second player with a blunt object. Whenever you crash really hard, have the guy standing next you hit you in the face with the object. This will simulate realistic damage to the driver.

[bigj]

GT is not a simulator either.When u can get a 900 hp car and be running 190 mph and hit a wall and bounce off of it and still win the race that to me is more arcade than being a simulator.wtf does it matter how close the tracks are to real life when the cars handling is bad and not even close to real life.I play games to have fun and this game is not as good as forza imo.The only thing GT5 has is good graphics and it wasnt that impressive and yes I own a 52" bravia 1080p..It has alot of bad glitches for a game that took so long to release.I would tell anyone to rent this b4 buying.

[djfullshred]

It is a game that simulates driving. But it is a game. People should buy it as such.

I can't disagree on renting before buying if you are undecided...but think most people that like auto racing games would end up buying after having time to preview this game in a rental. I know I would.

[JokesOnYou]

"It must also be noted that I put in the effort to drive 3 clean laps at a decently fast pace but could be considered completely average and safe rather than full attempts at breaking any records."

"Although I consider myself completely capable of handling myself in a racing simulator, I do believe that the real-life drivers are better drivers than I but that their skill is balanced to mine due to the simulators lack of the fear factor and caution needed on a real track." -Nick/lazygamer

-I mean really you could attribute the small difference to the driver error not the game.

[Masterchef2007]

¨Forza is for Everyone

It's easy to go for a spin: "Forza Motorsport 3" redefines the racing genre by blurring the definition of simulation and arcade. Simulation games can be too hard for some players. "Forza Motorsport 3" rises above the distinction between simulation and arcade games by using a myriad of cutting-edge driving and gameplay assists such as auto-braking, gameplay rewind and auto-tuning. "Forza Motorsport 3" delivers an experience where everyone can have fun behind the wheel, regardless of your skill and dexterity. Whether you're a newcomer or a seasoned racing game pro, "Forza Motorsport 3" caters to how you drive and the game evolves with you over time as your skills develop.¨

http://forzamotorsport.net/...

Forza is a game designed to be easy to pick up and play. Which is why it has steering assist, brake assist and rewind. It is clearly a game aimed for the general public who game with controllers.

[The Meerkat]

Real life FTW!

[krisq]

Cool idea for a test actually. Too bad they didn't gave us Kia C'eed for Top Gear track though. I would love to try and beat The Stig's times.

[ryuzu]

I don' think The Stig has lapped the "reasonably priced car" - he only does the more exotic stuff many of which are modelled in extreme fidelity in GT5.

So jump in.

r.

[ShadowJetX]

He did, I'm only a beginner fan. I think Clarkson said that the Stig said that he could do it about 1"41 something, to which he did, and was beaten by some 41 driver I can't be bothered to remember at the moment.

Please get educated. And I agree with you krisq, I would love to try and beat the Sitg's time with that car, but the other ones shall suffice for now.

[krisq]

Yeah, he did. Separate time table though. And only pro drivers are competing with him.

[thief]

While this certainly proves a point, still feel a bit sad looking at the way reviews and gaming coverage is headed. I read at least 5-6 reviews that essentially admitted that GT5 is the best simulator, but scored it low because wanted it to play like an arcade game, with instant gratification, painted cars and flashy, tacked on damage from hour 1. GT can get away with being true to itself because of its following, but smaller games would probably get killed if they deviate from the CoD/Halo/NFS/GTA formats

[frostypants]

Exactly.

Hardcore sims almost need to be approached as if they're technical software, not games.

They need to let people who are experienced in reviewing hardcore sims on the PC handle the GT5 reviews. That's the crowd that understands how to evaluate a simulation.

[bunfighterii]

Lazy gamer? That's not a very lazy man's test! Plus he's pulling good lap times- very close to the real thing.

[teething]

is this article a joke?

Anyone heard of human error?

p.s. if you want to compare lap times that mean something... go to the ring.

[The Meerkat]

There was an article a few days ago that showed the opposite result.

[frostypants]

You obviously didn't read the article, or you failed to comprehend what was achieved. Because your comment makes zero sense.

[level 360]

This is from an article in the December 2010 issue of (Australian ) Motor Magazine.

Driving a race-spec 311kw Lexus IS F in the completed game version of the Nurburgring full 24 hour race course ( a *world first and **highlight of the new game ) which links the legendary Nordschleife ( North Loop ) of the F1 GP track.
Yamauchi did (2)two qualifying laps. One at 100 percent "game" speed, pushing the IS F to it's limits and beyond on some corners.
His time? 9:38sec.

Yamauchi explains "In the game you have the luxury of being able to push the car to 100 percent and not worry about going off. But in the real world, you must tone that down to somewhere around 95 percent, so that you retain a small margin of error. You must remember that you are racing against real cars at speeds clearing 250km/h with real hazards and real guardrails"

Then, on his second qualifying lap ( still in the game ) he drove as if he was qualifying for the real world and posted a time of 9:48sec.

During the 24-hour race the following day, behind the wheel of the "real" Lexus IS F race car, Yamauchi posted a fastest lap time of, yep you guessed it - 9:48sec.

[soundslike]

makes me glad that there's no "real shooting simulators" with realistic recoil on peripherals.

[granthinds]

Great article.

[Enzo]

"Forza has better physics... GT has better graphics"

Forza
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Gran Turismo
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Shifting Movements

Forza Shifting
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

GT5 Shifting
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[dkblackhawk50]

Logic fail the 1st GT5 link is GT5 Prologue...and the second video is from March 24th...do we honestly believe you after that?

[BrianC6234]

I guess they should look at the tracks in both games and see if they're exact matches to the real tracks. I've heard plenty of real racers in the past say they used GT to learn a track they never raced at and when they finally did race on it they felt they knew it. Every little detail. I wonder if Forza gets that detailed? If they miss a couple minor details in the track it might make it a little easier to race on.

[PirateThom]

As I noted in the first post, Turn 10 artificially widen tracks and make minor adjustments for the sake of online while Polyphony Digital are purists and the tracks are modeled properly.

[JonnyBigBoss]

Like I've said before, GT5 is the best racing simulator of all time.

[ReBurn]

I guess it comes down to what you're looking for. For the simulator purist, I can see where this would be important. For someone like me who cares more about fun than realism (give me Burnout any day) it is merely interesting.

I think that Polyphony Digital did a great job of capturing the mechanics of driving these cars. I've played the game for a couple of hours and it handles really well.

Personally I would like to have a mode where the realism goes out of the window and it's just all-out arcade racing. But since this game isn't built for that I'm good.

[awi5951]

And also there is a auto steering assist with a controller. With forza 3 to drive the real physics engine without any assist on you need to use a wheel. The devs and sim racers review sites have said the same thing. To get down to the meat of the bones of the forza 3 physics engine you have to use a wheel. Forza 3 should give controller users the option to turn that on.

[tsn]

Im pretty sure GT5 creators tested out most of their cars before putting it in the game where as Forza Dev's just looked at stats and weight and guessed.

Hense 5 years vs 1 year.

[jro211]

So we are comparing lap times now...you're an idiot.