In an interview, 'brain child' of the team behind Kinect, Alex Kipman was asked if there is a certain level of unavoidable lag input with Kinect,to which he replied “no.” He gives a ‘real world example’ using driving a car as an example.
Brainchild certainly got brain. /s
lol..yip, helluva scientific!
So according to Microsoft, when I move my hand, and it takes Kinect 3 seconds later to copy it, it's actually my fault because... "if you think about it, the actual human introduces, and forget about USB, the devices, anything like that, the actual human introduces lag." LOL. WOW. LOL. So according to Microsoft, Kinect doesn't lag. It's me who's lagging. LMAO!
I was thinking the same thing. WTF.
but there is def delay with cursor... if you move from left to right even at normal speed, you notice delay. if you move fast enough, you notice horrendous delay on cursor. i can move my arm from left to right while the cursor still stays at the left side of the TV. in the end, this is just an excuse by MS that the lag cant be fixed on Kinect. so deal with it
he does have a point. With regards to digital input it is just on or off. There is no middle. The introduction of analog controls in a game offers up the slight variances of motion. Think about it. The whole thing with the analog and killzone 2 for example. The lag the controls had were fixable but still present as opposed to a real digital input. We all have slight differences in the way we move. Especially the speed at which we move. It kind of makes sense why there would be lag for one person and maybe not for another. Differences in performance based on the differences of the players. You dont get that in a digital controlled environment. You move your character forward or backward using a d pad, they walk the same pace. You do that with analog and the character can creep along or run. Truth be told, I have had lag in the move table tennis. I guess my hand was way to fast for the camera to keep up. The guy told me to be more natural and so it worked. I still sucked at the game though. It is natural for you to try and compensate for mistakes in movement. You go to far one way, so you over correct the other until you find the right pace.
combo.... spot on.... they should just leave some stuff off the table and not try to make crap up which just makes no sense
Wow, here I thought it was the devices that introduced lag. It's because of Humans huh?
Is this guy a politician? For all he said he still said nothing.
Humans baaaad, devices gooood...
I see. So when you decide you need to create a new account for trolling, it takes me 13 days to realize you've done it. Hmmm.
I think the lag isn't noticed when playing the game or you just get use to it and don't notice. These developers may need to take a break and look again with fresh eyes. Hopefully through updates they can correct the issue.
....It lags but it will sell trillions fanboys pleased case closed
is it me or did anything he say make sense scientifically. Just more PR talk.
It's your fault that there is lag, not the hardware or the developer...YOUR FAULT!
He explained it pretty well. Why did you make that sarcastic comment? Look at CBS's Kinect video. When the guy comes to try out that fitness game, there are no noticeble lag. Whatever he does, directly appears on the screen. You are just making assumptions from checking a couple of videos of those worthless Rare's Kinect games, which proves that its developer's fault, not Kinect's. Edit for below: I think it has skeletal tracking, since there are also complitacted moves and not just simple ones. It also shows a simple wired skeleton in body of the player on screen that constantly changes by the players movement.
and there are still lag just not as noticeable. also, it is suffering from glitches.. i tried it out and it thinks i am a midget(4.5 inches shorter than my actual height)
For all the disagreers; if you are gonna disagree, please do share with us why? @GamingGamer, you most likely played an early version of the game right? Like in July or something? Why is that its such a big deal for you when an unreleased Xbox 360 game has glitches while the same thing happens for a PS3 game, its not? There was a news article with a video showing Motorstorm Apocalypse froze while someone was playing it, and I didn't see anyone said anything bad about it except "wait and see yeeeaah they'll fix it etc. etc.". Of course they're gonna fix it because it's in an early stage. Of course there's also an anti Kinect thing going on with hardcore gamers. Even Aaron Greenberg, "The douchebag" most of you hate said that they're going after casual market because they think they have enough things for hardcore gamers on the console. What did you do? Cried like a baby, yelling "IT HAZ NO BUTT0NZ IT'LL FA1L". Only thing that's gonna keep away Kinect from selling like hotcakes is its price (which is ridiculously high if you ask me) and that's all. Except for a couple of games developed by stupid developers like Rare, there aren't any noticable lags in the latest videos for more than enough games.
Lamest excuse ever.
I really hate how they lie about the lag. To take his example about driving, they don't just port the standard Forza game with Kinect controls. They have to slow down the speed of cars, modify tracks to account for not being able to turn as quickly, and other adjustments so that the delay that does exist isn't as noticeable. There is lag, it's impossible to say otherwise.
Also, using vehicle control in a driving game to prove there is no lag is a false premise. For one thing, the mechanical systems involved in steering a car have a certain amount of "lag" that serves to hide some of the lag Kinect might have. These sources of mechanical lag include the torsion of shafts, gears that don't fit perfectly, and, perhaps the largest factor, tires that deform and slip where they contact the road. These factors are reduced as you move to higher-performance vehicles with better materials and stiffer, stickier tires, of course. The second factor is that 99% of players won't be able to detect the lag due to the disconnect between their action (twisting their hands) and the result on screen (the view outside the car rotating), which almost never have a 1:1 correspondence. Not to mention unfamiliarity with most of the vehicles they are driving - I have never driven a Lamborghini, have you? How often have you even driven your own Ford Fiesta on Nurburgring at 140 Mph? The real test of lag is to have something on screen exactly match the motion of the player. Swinging a sword rapidly is one example. Turning a steering wheel rapidly (if you see the wheel and avatar onscreen) might be another - though it is not often that you even need to rotate the wheel that quickly unless you are a professional racer. But saying that the fact that you can keep a car on the road is proof of no lag is no real test.
This guy's a douche! What a lame excuse! Who makes up those?!
Actually, he's ignoring the point and spinning REALLY hard. All this guy is doing is pretending there is no problem by narrowly defining the context of said problem. He's defining "lag" very technically just so he can viably say that there is no lag at all. He's ignoring the fact that users are sensing lag, and that that's all that really matters. Is there significant lag on the purely digital end of the analog motion-to-digital translation? Perhaps not. But if the user perceives lag in the overall experience, i.e. somewhere on the analog end or in between, then it's still a problem...WHERE it's occurring is neither here nor there. He's answering a question that nobody asked. Now if he's saying that such analog lag is unavoidable, then he's summing up the primary reason for what every critic has been saying all along (including Sony after their similar tech failed to take off a decade ago): cameras alone are not a viable input method for gaming. Which is why they will be forced to introduce controllers into the experience in the future.
Convincing theory, but I will wait and see
It's not "convincing" in the slightest. It's completely absurd.
But then again if you are paddling up a river with Kinect lag isn't that twice as long? LOL
I can say there is still an amount of lag that I can not get over. With games like DDR only have four huge foot buttons I am able to keep my rhythm with the game. Kinect's version of this was like trying to dance in a pool of water. I had the moves down to a tee and yet I still did not get 100 percent. Watching other individuals play other games I noticed the lag between the input and the output and it is still noticeable. They can spin this as much as they would like to but it still remains that Kinect will only be able to sell casual games. When it comes to hardcore games they are just not ready for it. This technology has been developed for the past ten years but the simple fact remains that analyzing and comprehending the input is still an issue. Until Microsoft can get their hands on a much faster processor (Much like the Cell Processor or the AMD Phenom 6 core like I have.) the lag will only continue to exist. Don't expect Kinect games to please you with eye candy.
No lag. The man behind Kinect explains the lag. Now which is it? Lag or nor lag?
it's YOUR fault. YOU are lagging. Kinect is so much faster than you, that it takes your brain 3 seconds to register that you just made kinect move.
Don't forget about crappy low speed of light coming from tv to your eyes!
You did watch the E3 star wars demo. Kinect controls YOU!!!!
OMG LMFFAO DAMN YO you made me laugh so hard LOLOLOL!!!!!
Well...In mother Russia...
Ha. That explains the demos where the on screen characters moved before the gamers. Kinect is clairvoyant!
good point.. can't remember how many times they claimed there would be no lag
HUMANS are tracking Kinect and not the opposite, that explains the lag=> cool then! :O SPOIL: -_-'
"No lag. The man behind Kinect explains the lag. Now which is it? Lag or nor lag?" 'Lag' can be both a verb and a noun In the heading it's clearly a noun, "to lag" would have been a verb.
What a daft question to ask. He's not going to admit to any lag is he? His job is probably on the line.
Exactly what did he just feed us.. ( now I am confused )..I guess he said the lag is there just deal with it. lol
There is no lag from Kinect. We(Humans)are the lag.
Conclusion: we humans are, by ourselves, a poor gaming input method. Is this not what Sony has been saying all this time? Wasn't Kinect supposed to eliminate this issue, seeing as it was the EyeToy's biggest weakness? If it doesn't, what exactly was the point of bothering? I sound like a fanboy here, but honestly...as a gamer and a tech geek, I don't get it...
I guess he hasnt watched the videos where there is rather large lag right now... His answer really doesnt make sense.
he just proved that buttons are needed, especially if you want a faster paced and more precise experience .
Richard Marks, he created this 10 years ago so he'd know a thing or 2 about the lag.
Yeah this guy is no match for the brains of Dr. Marks, and one can only imagine what that man is thinking up in his brain right now.
It's not kinect that is lagging but YOU!!! /S
I am lagging over what I just read...
it lags because its a 30 fps camera. that's self-explanatory.
this is the biggest issue with Kinect and I am not sure what the eye toy does... anyone who is a camera buff, knows the camera is gonna be to slow for very fast games. no software is gonna make up for it.. since Kinect is geared toward the casual user, they wont know or notice.. I upgraded our web cam and what a diff. ..but I did pay over 100 bucks for the new camera and the other was less than 1/2 of that
i actually posted this ten minutes ago but due to my human lag it has only just appeared
a 3 sec delay? that's huge when it comes to motion games.. guess red balls coming towards you will be the only thing on the menu for many many more months to come.
Bullshit! Bold-faced lying.
YOUJUS DUNT GET IT is jus tht dis GUys tooO smurt fer us 2 undersantd wah hes saYign Kienct hash NOOOO lag Dis Guy says But cuz hes Genies we dnt gt it. I BUYIng KIENCT DAY 111111!!!! AlL you ps3fanbys 2 dumb 2get it. NOOO LAG!!!! But seriously though, maybe this guy is just too smart. He sounds like he actually came from this "analog" world and just doesn't get humanity. maybe a T2000?
ha rushed out the door to be side by side with move on black friday gg
"is that we’re moving from a digital world – a world of zeroes and ones" The matrix? :)
so all it needs is a flux capacitor
How is it supposed to generate 1.21 gigawatts without a 3rd power brick?
Ok, I get what he's saying. Humans dont move fast enough. If you want to dodge a bullet in a game you need to first recognise the threat, survey your environment, decide to where you want to move, then actually move your body. This requires your brain sending electrical impules to your muscles which then react, and you will dodge in the appropriate direction. Then the hardware has its own train of thought. Its own path to travel with each step taking time. It needs to see you move, and translate that to the charactor on screen. So theres lag from your brain to your body, then theres lag from your body to the camera, then theres lag from the camera to the screen. Hasn't he just proved that maybe human being are inadequate to be controllers, at least for fast paced action. Twitch controls seem to be right out the window for this device, even if it is my slow bodies fault. Of course theres is a way quicker to input information for the CPU to process. I'll give you a hint. It starts with B and rhymes with muttons.
He has proven that Kinect predicts all your future movements before you think them! But humans are too dumb to keep up with Kinect's blazing speed, and humans operate on a 6 second lag, but Kinect improves our lives by reducing it to 3. See Bathyj, you must buy a Kinect now or you will be Petey-the-retard-slow for the rest of your life.
I'm not that slow. I recognised the sarcasm without you having to put /s after it. Of course, it was pretty thick.
locked in the matrix will buy kinect....
Some things that come out of Microsoft's camp continue to amaze me. I wonder if they really expect us to believe what he just said.
if you buy this, you pretty much fallen for the trap that Microsoft wants you to fall into. at the end of the day though, this is going to sell, no matter what. when the consumer puts this in their living room and see the trap they fell into, they're going to realize that they are uneducated consumers. this wouldnt have gotten so much flak if it wasnt laggy from the beggining. no matter what software changes they do, you cant update hardware that captures you flailing your arms at 30 frames per second, which is whats causing the lag. its funny, i liked the idea of Kinect when it was introduced, but seeing the reality of all this just reminded me of the eyetoy, which is why sony recycled the PS eye and made it the key piece of hardware needed for the Move.
My same brain recognizes NO LAG when I use the Move tracking 1:1 movement on the same TV screen, hmph... so Kinect is so good that it warps time and puts my brain in a 3 second idiot vacuum? /s
OH THE IRONY!
ok steering works without lag, except what we introduce apparently, but what about the lag on the accelerator and brakes?
I AM NEO!