Will Xbox 360 XNA succeed where Sony failed?

When Microsoft allows would-be developers to develop Xbox 360 games from their own homes, it won't be the first time a major console company has opened up its hardware to consumer coders. In 1997, Sony released the Net Yaroze, a system of coding tools that allowed consumers to develop for the original PlayStation.

[REDMOND BOYZZ]

A piss poor ps1 like dev kit, is not in the same ball park. lol I'm going to make an game like Super Monkey Ball but with Baboons and blood, and i will make it at "Home" with out a "Dev-Kit" on my "PC".

[DJ]

without a 360 dev kit? Does XNA somehow convert x86 Out-of-order code into powerPC In-order code?

Sounds impossible/ridiculous, but if it's really that powerful then damn. And even if that's true they'd have to include a damn good emulator.

Sony's supposed to be including Linux on the PS3 (which is free!) so it'll be great to see what kind of wacky homebrew applications come out of that. Sadly though, they haven't given any specifics on how that's going to work.

[Jay da 2KBalla]

everyone knows that microsoft has better development tools than sony so yes xna will succeed where sony failed. also dj u r wrong. xna is better dev tools than what is currently out and when bundled with directx10 its even better. Also, neither directx10 or xna is out yet.

[BIadestarX]

you again.

[ACE]

you r so biased .....

so what home brew did you do on the ps2 ? it had linex and it was free lol lol you r so stupid.....

[Jay da 2KBalla]

lol

Also homebrew softwar is enabled for 360.

[REDMOND BOYZZ]

ME Too, Sony me too. PS3's a POS with "me too" writen all over it.

[UNREAL-T]

Micosoft is following sony, they are doing what sony is doing. "I'm not talking about this article".

[REDMOND BOYZZ]

Xbox 1 and 2 are "arcade in the home" style online console's. PlayStation is an console from the old era of NES ect" trying to catch up. 360's going to rock half way through it's life and Xbox3 will lead. lol

[JIN KAZAMA]

wake up fom your wet dream redmond boyzz. Get over it, PS3 is more powerfull, has better games, better Online service, more bang for the buck. You idiots just got scammed into buying a "step towards next-gen" console.

[sparco]

Have you seen the sh*t thats coming out at launch for PS3. You dont even have heavenly Sword or MGS at launch anymore. Theres only 4 or 5 good games cummin out on the ps3. Thats coming from someone that aint even a fanboy for anyone. The ps3 may be more powerful in terms of computing. But it wont beat the 360 in power for GAMES. And GAMES are the main reason we buy these pieces of hardware. Sony have stated that it is more like a computer, but thats not really a good thing, we want it more liek a game console. And im pretty sure most people will aggree with that.

[Optimus Prime]

wow, if you think that sonys online will even come close to xbl, you must be in a mental insitute, sony will not beat xbl, plus half the stuff on sonys online is from xbl

[JIN KAZAMA]

Did you SEE what Sony online is offering you fool. its offering everyhting the XBL is offering, and playing online is Free, so STFU.

[Optimus Prime]

exactly, everything that xbl has, sony has, where do they get the ideas, they dont make them up themselves, so they have to use other companies ideas. oo you will get to play games online, but if you want to download arcade games, or download map packs. it will cost you. rather pay for a service that has been in the making for 4 years than playing on a laggy server

[DJ]

and yet not one 360 fan could answer my question. How do you create games for a 360 while coding on a PC? (does XNA convert it to powerpc compatible code in the compiler? Does it properly emulate the code?) If it does I'd like to try it out. Jeez, it's like you people are angry 24/7. Chill. Take a hint from Jin and Alien.

BTW, something's been bothering me. A lot of 360 fans spout out "The Power of XNA and DirectX 10" but XNA is simply C# and .Net based and DirectX is on par with the capabilities of OpenGL 2(different devs prefer one over the other). Word of advice; don't buy into buzzwords without knowing the truth behind them. I've never seen a Sony fan yell out "The power of 4D gaming!" They seem to be smart enough not to trust everything that these companies say, and you shouldn't either. It's just videogames. Drink a beer and relax.

[Optimus Prime]

dj, with the last sentence, i agree. everyone on this site needs to calm down, you are fighting over video games.

[Krimson]

NM. Gave a brief synopsis of why you can develop for both the 360 and Windows at the same time but Bladestar has it covered off 100x bettter!

[ACE]

if i had a eject button , i would eject u permenently lol .... DJ u talk trash ...

you say xbox fans this and that u sony fan BOYS r 100 times worse u fool ,,,

go play ur ps2 or has the drive broke lol :)

[Asuka]

linux

[JIN KAZAMA]

You've played the new Sony Online service huh? It offers everyhitng XBL does, yep it sure does, and then some. Does XBL let you surf the Web, NOPE, oh but wait, it will be upgraded to do it, So its not Actually copying.....RIGHT. What about Eyetoy, hmm......Lets see, PS2 had that Idea first on any console, now MS has the vision Camera.....Oh But I guess Sony Copied that too since their next Gen EyeToy will be out. Come on people, get real.

[DJ]

Microsoft invented internet explorer so you'd figure they'd put it in their flagship console. And why does XBL lag so much? My college has T3 lines but in the dorms we still got a boatload. Seriously, why pay for lag when you can get it for free? =P (ok, it does have great matchmaking, i'll give it that.)

It's interesting that a lot of companies prefer Sony's open online model since Microsoft imposes a lot of rules and restrictions for LIVE (including content). Their biggest complaint was that they couldn't integrate their servers together into one service. Every game basically had different screennames and profiles for online users, which is just horribly messy. Luckily the Playstation Network Platform for PS3 is adding the kind of integration that developers have been wanting for a long time. Freedom and ease of use are going to be a part of Sony's online strategy now instead of freedom and pain in the ass sign-ins and profiles. lol Since it is a free service, however, it'd be great if we could create multiple screennames for one account. That way anyone using the console, like friends or siblings, can use game content that's already been paid for, such as levels, vehicles, weapons, etc. Does Xbox Live for 360 already do that, or does it only support multiple accounts per console (one screenname each)?

[BIadestarX]

"Sounds impossible/ridiculous, but if it's really that powerful then damn." Want to know why? Because you know alot less than you think you know. It sucks but I will have to educate you again. "Does XNA somehow convert x86 Out-of-order code into powerPC In-order code" first of all there is no convertion going on.
A key component of the runtime that results in fast execution of .NET Framework applications is the Microsoft Just-In-Time compiler (JIT). The JIT takes common MSIL (Microsoft Intermediate Language) code that is produced by Microsoft Visual Studio .NET, the Microsoft .NET Framework SDK, XNA, or other tools that target the .NET Framework, and uses it to generate native x86 instructions. Intel processors have evolved rapidly from the early Pentium processor design to the latest multiprocessor-based systems using the Intel Xeon processor. When the JIT encounters a genuine Intel processor, the code produced takes advantage of Intel NetBurst architecture innovations and hyper-threading technology. The JIT compiler version 1.1, takes advantage of Streaming SIMD Extensions 2 (SSE2).
As the JIT is activated at run time, it is able to utilize information that isn't available to a regular compiler. This information can be used to provide further performance enhancements by allowing for increasingly sophisticated optimizations. The runtime effect of these additional JIT-only optimizations can be quite dramatic. The JIT can dynamically remove levels of indirection and inline frequently called methods, as it knows what code paths are actually executing. These optimizations result in a more responsive .NET application due to fewer cache misses and reduced branching. It is possible for all this to be accomplished without a perceptible delay in application execution due to the raw speed of the latest Xeon and Pentium 4 processors and the Mobile Intel Pentium 4 processor - M.

Lets not talk about linux, I don't want to get into an argument with linux; there is a reason why Linux it's not Gamers #1 choice.

Does it still sound possible?

I will give you an advice if you want to be a good developer/programmer, don't become a fanatic to one platform or technology. Most people that talk bad about the .net know sh** about it. Most people that talk bad about C# are Java or C developers too afraid of learning something new; so they resort to trash it. C# and the .net are new and were design/built from the ground up. It is only obvious that it will be more efficient than older technologies since they were designed with the newest hardware in mind.

[DJ]

Thanks for the explanation. I never claimed to know how it worked, which is why I asked for an explanation in the first place. But it doesn't matter; now we have the info.

[th3 itch]

Skinny Caleb
@Darkcult;
I am glad to see you are a fellow believer in the PS3. I thought you might be interested to hear some more awesome things about the PS3. I got all this directly from Sony's marketing department so you know it is completely true. So it turns out the PS3 has been ready for quite some time but Sony has been so busy selling them to important organizations they just haven't had enough to sell to gamers. So here are some of the awesome things about the PS3.

-The NSA was having trouble going through all the data they were getting from AT&T on American citizens. Sony stepped in and set up a bunch of PS3s which can filter over a thousand inane phone conversations a minute.

-Ever heard of Ned Lamont? His top political advisor got ahold of PS3 to run super complex election models that showed that maybe a few Americans were less than happy about the war in Iraq.

-Fidel Castro? Dead. What is shown in the news is in game footage from an upcoming version of Tropico for the PS3.

-The PS3 can cure most known diseases, but it is not FDA approved.

-The PS3 Cell has computed sums past infinity, three times.

-The PS3 has no internal clock. It's new 4d features allow it to decide what time it is.

-The PS3 Cell can divide by zero.

-In the PS3 Cell, every Synergistic Processing Element (SPE) is faster than every other Synergistic Processing Element.

[DJ]

lol. Do they have any awesome stuff on the 360? =P

[DJ]

If you could make any game for the 360, what would it be? (this is for anyone)

[BIadestarX]

I wrote/coded an RPG game a while back using a visual basic 6 and DirectX called, "Ultimate Element" The last boss name's is "Bladestar" hence why I use it everywhere. It didn't get that far since till now it's always been very difficult to publish a game unless you have lots of money. I went as far as writing a 250 story line for the game. Now I can see lots of people (including myself) getting together to come up with very interesting stuff. As a programmer I suck at drawing or creating the art/ music for the game; but I’m sure once the XNA kicks in lots of communities will surge and I will probably join a small group of people that are willing to work together towards creating a game. This is why I’m so interested in the XNA.

[ACE]

me and a few friends r thinking about it ,,, when this comes out make like a xbox arcade game and take it from there i cant wait this is gona be amazing for people who want to make games but just need a helping hand by this software/kit

[Waffle-boy]

I would have to make a simple maze game, or a platformer, to dip the feet in the water. I am leanring C++ right now, so i dont think ill ever make an FPS or anything like that...

If i ever pay for this, then thats what i will do.

[Waffle-boy]

JIN SAID;
"the PS3 has a better Online service than Xbox!"

How would you know that? You are equally guilty from fanboy gibberish yourself!

SOME GUY SAID;
"sony will not beat xbl, plus half the stuff on sonys online is from xbl "

Another one that seemingly has all the info on PS3's online capabilities. I dont think you can comment on something youve never seen, heard or played...

[Dragonopolis]

I swear one of the many reasons Sony was fully Supporting linux was to appease the Homebrew crowd and open up consumer programming on the PS3. Also from what information is available about the PS3, Didn't Sony say that the PS3 will have full Keyboard support including games if Developers desire - and with this full keyboard support (assuming mouse as well) couldn't you do all the programing from the PS3 without the aid of a PC. I've been using Linux for about 3 years and when open source sets its site it can create fantastic tools and programs in relatively short period of time.

Quite frankly, I feel this is a poor Attempt by MS to give Xbox 360 owners similar options that are already planned for the PS3.

PS3 looking better already.

[Asuka]

when it comes to homebrew....linux owns!

[johnrichardandrew]

I am a full time Linux user and it isn't great for homebrew, it's all homebrew pretty much but the environment isn't better, Linux developers don't like not having the features of MS's tools at their disposal, we request it all the time and try to mimic it with apps like Kdevelop but it isn't great for making games- hell look at the games available for Linux, there are about three from linuxgamepublishing.com which are impressive everything else is awful to use, especially because of no DirectX use- it kills gaming for us Linux users, we have to use OpenGL which is good but no substiture.

Linux WAS NOT put into the PS3 for homebrew, hell they had it in the PS2, it's put in there to let the PS3 get lower tax because it's a computer- and it's pretty much free to implement so Sony can use it as a feature- but little came of it in the last gen, hell XboxLinux project was much more mature and not even supported by MS, I have a unit set up with it now, do I run Linux on any of my PS2s? Hell no, for PC and server work it's great but there's no need for it on consoles- other than tax evasion.

[Dusk]

XNA has been talked about since the early Xbox days, long before Sony decided what was going to be included in the PS3. Sony, as marketing hype, has talked about 'homebrew' to divert hype from MS's XNA endeavours. XNA was actually originally designed as part of MS's very good developer support. In addition, XNA can be used by home users.

[JasonXE]

didn't sony say it would have a premuim service?

[AIan]

Seriously.. you Sony fans just took over this story... why not say "Cool, hopefully its easy to use and works out well"... this is the kind of thing we want for our consoles if done right.

I am just about done with this site .... good news for one means the other side gets their panties bunched up

[Dusk]

Wow, you must be pretty special to have already played PS3 games, used the online service, and know the outcome of the media format war. Yeah, you MUST be special. Also, you seem to know that PS3 online play will be free when Sony has only stated that they will leave it up to developers. Therefore, you must know what's in the mind of every developer. That's amazing. You can look at hardware spec sheets for both consoles and deduce that the PS3 is WAY more powerful, even though the specs don't show that. I'm in awe. The fact that you know ahead of time that a hardware company (Sony) can develop better software than the premier software company in the world (MS)is simply jaw dropping. I mean, you can even sense that even though there are more than double the games in development for the 360 than the PS3 (including more than double the exclusives) and that it's becoming a common occurence for developers to cancel their PS3 version (due to cost, difficulty of development, and lack of confidence in Sony's ability to sell its overpriced system), the PS3 is still going to have much better games and more of them. You brushed aside the years of work MS put into its online service because you know that it's easy as pie and a hardware company can do it better without any time or effort. I'm speachless. If I could just have your autograph, I'd be just giddy.

[JIN KAZAMA]

I dont give out my autograph. But thanks for the compliments.