OXCGN’s Steal it For 360? – Starcraft 2: Wings of Liberty (PC)

OXCGN:

"So Starcraft 2: Wings of Liberty has been out for a little while now and is proving to be immensely popular. But sadly this title is only being enjoyed by the happy millions of PC gamers out there, while us console gamers are stuck with playing shooter games like Halo: Reach or Medal of Honor.

There are many of us that would like to see a Real Time Strategy (RTS) successor to the successful Halo Wars which proved RTS can work on a console.

Is Starcraft 2 something the Xbox 360 owners should have had?"

[gaminoz]

To be honest I don't know why more strategy games aren't on consoles: Halo Wars, Civilization Revolution, RUSE, and Endwar showed it can be done.

Maybe not as well as on PC, but I hate it when there is too much reliance on hot-keys, speed, and nimble fingers. What kind of strategy is that anyway?

Civilization Rev with turn based gameplay was my favourite!

[CombineElite]

Some games are better on the PC and some are made to be more accessible to console users.

Why dumb a game down for consolers when everyone here already has a PC?

You wanna play Starcraft 2 Civilization V Minecraft or World of Warcraft, go buy a PC or just upgrade the one your currently on as the system requirements of these games is very main stream meaning you don't need Crysis or Metro 2033 hardware to run these titles.

Putting a game on the console means the death of that genre. look how FPS have become such a joke and now every dam console FPS has Zombies. Unfortunately Blizzard has partnered with Activision so I'm sure another Blizzard RTS will be on console very soon as their first RTS game Warcraft Orcs vs. Humans is on the console Sega Genesis.

Actually the Sega Genesis is the God Father of RTS games, Herzog Zwei the very first modern RTS then Dune and Warcraft followed. This genre moved to the PC naturally as the genre became more and more complicated.

So obviously RTS will work on consoles because that's where they got there start (imagine that) but not these AAA titles as they are far too complicated for control pads and especially in multi-player matches.

[XboxOZ360]

"Why dumb a game down for consolers when everyone here already has a PC? "

They needn't be, and thing is, more and more ppl, especially the younger generation of gamers are steering away from PC as an entertainment device, and their aim is much more mobile, family room orientated.

And games need not be dumbed down, but simply made differently, and it would not affect those that prefer the PC platform, how would it dumb a game down for them, as their platform of course is already a PC.

What it would do is open up the genres to gamers who have never had the opportunity or the desire to venture into a genre for lack of equipment etc.

That's a little like saying, hey, lets not make games for mobile devices as they are only dumbed down versions of the original. By doing so, the publisher is cut off from a market that could help expand it, rather than stay with a single platform,and lose sales in the short and long term.

There's room for all genres on all platforms, albeit in slightly different fashions, but it does open up the gaming world to the ppl that want to live outside of their bedrooms.

[Lich120]

The fact remains however, that SC2 as it is, would not work on a console. So whether you consider it dumbing down or just altering it, it would not be the same game.

[evrfighter]

"more and more ppl, especially the younger generation of gamers are steering away from PC as an entertainment device, and their aim is much more mobile, family room orientated."

steams growing numbers says otherwise.

[HolyOrangeCows]

"OXCGN’s Steal it For 360"
LOL! Pathetic.

Besides, admit it or not, PS3 would be much more accommodating for an RTS with Kb/M control and Move.

[ThanatosDMC]

It'll need mouse and keyboard. Move and especially Kinect (no buttons) will not be able to come close how SC2 is played.

Just imagine playing as Zerg with little to no hotkeys for hatcheries and the queens.

However, im all for it if they make let rts games be played using mouse and keyboard on consoles.

[morganfell]

That's where Move comes in. Ruse plays like a dream.

[ThanatosDMC]

I disagree since Move will not work with SC2 the way i play it... err... i guess diamond league players?

Ruse is a simple casual RTS game. SC2 is complex and challenging. It's hard to explain how SC2 becomes more and more complex as you go up the league ladder especially for people who do not play the game.

Ruse could have been so much better. Ruse doesnt play like a dream, but that's my opinion on using the Move... heck, even a mouse on Steam.

[morganfell]

If you have used Move with Ruse then you understand 2 things.

First, Ruse is strategy light and I agree with that assessment.

The second thing is though you cannot hotkey to the extent I and many others do in Starcraft II, you could assign 3 - 4 hotkeys.

But just as important, you can do something that is wholly more instinctive than it is with a KB/M combo and that is draw custom routes to and from objectives as well as patrols at the wave of a hand.

[STONEY4]

"That's where Move comes in. Ruse plays like a dream."

Except RUSE is very slow compared to Starcraft. Seriously, Starcraft is very fast paced, you're constantly hitting keys and clicking, there's no time to sit back and try to accurately pinpoint a Move cursor.

"you could assign 3 - 4 hotkeys."

*sigh* That's not ANYWHERE NEAR enough. I use about 7 or so custom assigned hotkeys per game. And that's not mentioning predefined hotkeys which are used even more.

In fact, I have a perfect example of how essential large amounts of hotkeys and quick fingers is essential:

Here's the situation: I'm facing off against mass Zealots, and a couple Colossi, and I'm playing as Terran. And I must keep up with base management and building units.

44sse*clicks on mineral patch* 22e 5aaaadd 11t*click*h 33 a*click* 6s 8e*tab*v*tab*a 00bs 11*click*h *click*h 33 a*click* 77vvd 11*click*h

What did I just do? I built 2 workers, dropped down a MULE, sieged up my Siege Tanks, built 4 Marines and 2 Marauders, activated Stimpack on my army while moving back to keep distance from melee units, focused down a Colossus with my Vikings, a Siege Tank, researched Infantry Weapons Level 2, Vehicle Plating Level 1, Caduceus Reactor, built a Supply Depot so I could make more units, pulled back to keep distance, fired, pulled back to keep distance, focused down the second Colossus, started building two more Vikings and a Medivac, then pulled back my ranged units once more to deal the finishing blow.

Do you know how long that took? Only around 10 seconds. 10 seconds, and I defeated a medium sized army push, kept up production at my base (WITHOUT EVEN LOOKING AT IT), researched upgrades, prevented from getting supply blocked, and took minimal army losses. Explain doing something that fast with Move?

Oh, and this is a typical mid game fight. End game, you'll have more units to micromanage (Ravens, Ghosts, Banshee harass), more buildings to produce out of, probably doing Marauder drops into bases to keep up the pressure (which takes a ton of skill to do while keeping up with other things), while doing another huge battle.

"But just as important, you can do something that is wholly more instinctive than it is with a KB/M combo and that is draw custom routes to and from objectives as well as patrols at the wave of a hand."

Except Starcraft 2 doesn't play like that at all. Starcraft is like the deathmatch of RTS games. There are no "objectives" besides to kill your opponent. Custom routes are VERY easy to do with a mouse: hold shift, right click 2 or 3 points of the minimap, done in a matter of a second, the path-finding AI will do the work of walking around obstacles for you.

[Proeliator]

Coming from someone who only plays occasional RTSs, they CAN work on consoles. It just has to be done right.

Console RTS games are targeted at me: the player who has no hotkeys and works rather slowly :D

[BadCircuit]

I really enjoy strategy games but yeah the controller isn't the best for it. The author has a good idea when he says to use the chatpad. That might work and make it more useful too!

[XboxOZ360]

When you watch the video in that article/review,you'll see why many PC gamers steer clear of the thought of RTS on consoles.

BUt then again, there are games that could benefit from being on the consoles, and that would do really well if they did appear. It would open up the genre to an every broadening fanbase that did not have the luxury of always upping their PC or even having a PC to enjoy such games.

@ BadCircuit:

The only prob with the 'cjhat-pad' is it's tendency to get harder to use the keys as it gets older. Sometimes they are harder to click certain keys that are used more than others, making quick, decisive keying difficult, but certainly not impossible.

[Godem]

hmmm my chat pad is years old now and it goes fine?

[XboxOZ360]

damn, looks like I need a new one lol . . . sometimes the space key doesn't register, and occassionally some keys have to be pressed hard to register - damn.

[gaminoz]

I loved Starcraft on N64...even though it had its faults, and you could screen cheat, I had a lot of laughs with that with friends/family.

Can't do that anymore unless you are at a PC LAN party (or use System Link on 360 with Civ Rev). Over the net it's just not the same imo.

[Proeliator]

Agreed. I constantly system link and LAN with friends; online gaming is greatly useful, but nothing will ever beat getting a bunch of friends over and having a good time in the same room.

[Godem]

I think the thing is, if its the only for some people to play it, they will get it, even if its obvious it will never be the best version to play it on... Like Starcraft 64, or Diablo on the PS1.

There are so many out there who don't have gaming PC's but would love the chance to play some of those PC only type games.. it would be great to see them come over... and as the reviewer says, with the consoles implementing the chatpad etc, you can see technology such as that would bring the gap between PC and 360 much closer.

[Belgavion]

Kind of glad this is not on 360 as my life may be ruined by it

[XboxOZ360]

Probably mate, as it is now, there's a bucket load of games most ppl can't even get to hehehe, on almost all platforms.

[JUDALATION]

When you use the move in RUSE it works 10 times better than regular controller... and as a result Ruse sold alot on PS3... although I still did not like the game (I just dont like war games...) it proved that the move could make faster decisions and actions possible... not as well as keyboard and hotkeys but if the move was used right... the 6 buttons and L3 stick as well as the mouse like move makes rts much more fun and playable... starcraft 1 might be a possibility with Move!

[XboxOZ360]

I saw RUSE being used on Microsoft's 'Surface' at a venue once, and it was amazing. Imagain the earlier trailer of RUSE showing the two guys using a tabletop, well it's basically like that. A cross between Apple's touch-pad gesturing and suchlike.

While it will not be commercially available for about another 12 months, it could set the way for some great RTS games where simple hand gestures on the surface will be all that is needed.

Now that WOULD be amazing.

@ Sarcasm :

Bubbles to you, exactly the point - with the changing of younger generations way of playing and interacting through handheld and consoles and mobiles, the PC is becoming less viable for that market.

And while could say well, who cares, let them use the mobiles etc etc, the thing is, they are a new market that is opening up, that will be buying games into the foreseeable future.

They won't be using PC's like the generations before them, so developers need to be looking out to the methods of delivery that will serve the upcoming customer, as well as the current customer.

It's been shown that latest statistics show that more and more 'i' gen youths are using small laptops, iPad, iPhone etc etc and steering away from the PC towers. One needs only look into the major retailers to see that.

[Newtype]

People should just leave this be, PC games should stay on PC. The people whining to get PC games on console should just game on the computer.

It's not so damn hard.

[Sarcasm]

Yes it is, not everyone can afford a decent computer but most people can afford a $199-$299 console.

Only the real hardcore has multiple consoles including the PC.

To play PC games, even at medium settings can still range from $300-$500. For higher end users, pfft. $300-$500 is just the GPU alone.

[256bit]

the PS3 already supports M/K it could work, just like UT on ps3, it even has MODS!!!

[Tassadar2]

The has more shooters than it knows what do with its in dire need of other types of games

[MoonConquistador]

Congrats to all in this thread so far, its one of the most grown up discussions I've seen on N4G without any fanboy spite running through it.

I haven't tried any RTS with the MOVE yet, so my only experiences on consoles have been the command and conquer games on the PS1/PSP which didn't work as well as the PC versions. There is definately scope for them too work, just as some have said already they need a little thought to do them differently for consoles.

My PS3 crashes enough with what its doing just now however (MAG especially) never mind trying to compute all the moves in a game of Civ 5, especially later in the game.

[CrIpPeN]

I am just going to save up for a real gaming rig and play all my games on the PC instead.

[CYBERHATER]

Microsoft would ruin the game with its download and upload rules, Storage Space limits, and Charge for maps. No telling what else "( Oh No dedicated servers plus lag!

[RockmasteR]

"while us console gamers are stuck with playing shooter games like Halo: Reach or Medal of Honor"

you are forgetting Bayonetta, Wet, Uncharted 1 & 2
every console has its Exclusives so we deserve our own exclusives as well ;)

[corneliuscrust]

Halo Wars was amazing as a console RTS because it was designed to be much more simple gameplay wise than traditional modern RTS games that appear on PC. Think of it as a "lazy man's RTS" It did what it did VERY well. Great game.

But to think that you could replicate the extremely demanding, micromanagement-intensive gameplay of Starcraft 2 without BOTH a mouse AND a keyboard, is just silly.

A full keyboard of hotkeys and numbers for groups assignments is NECESSARY to play SC2. That's just how it is.

[buddman]

This is why it will never be on console....

[emk2004]

its the prospect of getting people to play with a keyboard and mouse on console that seems to be the problem. sc2 could run on lower setting on console easy no doubt about that, but blizzard isn't going to dumb it down with using a controller. they make the games they wana make and there not going to make sc2 simple. ps3 would work great since it already supports the keyboard/mouse combo and it is a cheap alternative for people who dont have the smarts to build there own computer. only problem i can think would be how far away you would be from the tv might mess with your abilitys since mouse is very accurate. when i did it with d2 i lost had a hard time adjusting, lol wanted to see what d2 was like on a tv.