GameStooge reacts to Tretton's latest lie (about Move shipping/sold numbers), and looks back at all of his previous bald-faced lies, including his famous $1200 unsold PS3 offer, and his insistence the PSP "owns" the DS.
He didn't make a mistake, both Microsoft and Nintendo also state shipped numbers as sold. It's just the way the hardware giants operate because to Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo they are in fact sold consoles, because they're sold to retailers. They've made their money selling them and that's that.
It is hilarious that some people are actually upset that the Move is performing so well though. It will be interesting to see how quick they are to disregard the fact that Microsoft and Nintendo will be spouting shipped numbers when Kinect and the 3DS launch too.
Man watching 'some' guys crying all across different game sites after move's success is freaking HILARIOUS,I can't stop laughing...
There is already a thread about Move selling 1 m in NA on Neogaf and holy moly! The shear amount of bitter tears is just AMAZING...and delicious...hehe
I can't understand a damn thing thas goin on in this thread, man.
Can any body confirm that 1 million people don't have Move controllers?
Are we arguing that the 1 million controllers are not in people's hands or are we arguing that they're only 1 million controllers in stock?
Cause this shit is stupid and kind of a moot point. If 1 million controllers have been sold out of stock across the board what da fuck are we talkin about?
Every new post I read drives me deeper into confusion.
shipped to stores is SOLD! When are people going to understand this? Do you think Sony ships their products to retail on assignment where they don't get paid until a customer walks out of the store with product in hand? No. Once that product hits a store shelf or a distributor it is sold by Sony, MS, Nintendo, etc.
This is why articles discussing sales are so pointless. It appears most people only look at the final number and don't factor in the real numbers as to the actual success of a product. There is R&D, development, copy rights, production / manufacturing, shipping, distribution, retail, taxes and let's not forget the 800lb Gorilla in the room, marketing.
It seems all people look at is the end number (total revenue) and not all the cost listed above which ends up being the actual revenue accumlated for said product. The reality of it is that some games HAVE to sell millions just to break even.
BTW for those that don't know this, Jonah Falcon is THE BIGGEST (bare none) Sony hater on the planet. Google him and find out for yourself. He lives to hate Sony. As seriously demented and childish as that sounds, it's the flat out truth. He lives on the net 24/7/365 finding anything he can to spin as a negative against Sony.
To all those saying "The article provides sources"... where? the links inside the article mostly link to an IGN article which clearly states sony as talking about how many they've shipped and how they aren't mentioning sales at the moment.
And another links to a speculative article written about Michael Patcher estimating sales...
So there is no sources or anything like that? Heck they even link to a twitter post, asking whether they meant shipped or sold, and use that as confirmation of... something?
The whole article is poorly written to anger Sony Fanboys and bring other format fanboys out of the wood works (@Raikiri and @StupidSega)
Why not just be straight up from the beginning? hmm, so now he wants us to believe move is selling out everywhere, yeah OK, just like when he claimed he would give us 1200 if you could find a ps3, theres plenty of move stock in every store that sells games in southern Cali that I've been to, online stores are in stock too. I guess sony pulled the old channel stuffing trick, then tried to pretend it was "sold" numbers. ooooops, looks like someone at IGN called them on it. ahaha in true n4g form it looks like the sony faithful want to censor unfavorable sony news. lmfao
"it looks like the sony faithful want to censor unfavorable sony news"
Premise of article: 1 million are reported as "sold" by Sony, the company that SOLD those shipped products. Pachter has a random estimate; obviously more reliable, right? Author disagrees with some subjective comments.
Here is what the user raztad said to a similar remark:
"What Tretton said suggest MOVE is selling extremely well to CONSUMERS"
4 agrees, 0 disagrees
This is my question, yet people get so defensive about it. It seems that "Sold=shipped" was never the common understanding until just now.
So I'm a little confused, does every sales claim coming from the companies ultimately mean just shipped?
If Sony said "sold" but meant "Shipped", then how would we know any different since most people here seem to assume sold means what the default definition means?
What were the "official" numbers for retail? If he lied and 1 million controllers have not been purchased then, okay, but if we just arguin about this dude sayin they shipped 1 million controllers to the store...WHAT DA FUCK?
What the fuck are we arguing about?
If they shipped a million and a million are in need of restock, what's the problem? We need some official numbers, and the last numbers I heard(and I dont remember what week) was 300k(USA?).
So if they sold 300k back whenever I heard that, It's not a stretch that they gettin near 1mil in the US, if they haven't already.
So somebody clarify for me. He lied and there's one million controllers UNSOLD, or we just talkin about...what the fuck else...Iono.
I'm only responding because Alpha-Male22 provided a link. If you look at the sources for that submission you can see that the most reliable site listed is G4TV. They have it listed as shipped. Since they have the least to gain from flamebait titles and speculation, I would be inclinded to trust them the most. What people say here doesn't matter to anyone but the people here. Sony reported shipped units and some people went crazy. Good for them. That doesn't change the fact that Sony made money on over 2.5 million Move units in one month. You'll notice that the majority of people who are happy about the number being shipped rather than sold are the same people that would have been happy to see the Move bomb and are hoping for the Kinect to succeed. It's a pointless conversation. Their comments do not matter. I trust what G4TV reports (keyword: reports) over anything that anyone here says.
Retail stores by items from companies to meet current or projected demand. It isn't very often that a limited stock is sent to retailers without a demand for that entire stock. The Move is selling well to consumers. That's just how it is.
@JOY, are you really that damn thick that you cannot understand what "demand" means. Of course it is not sold out EVERYWHERE, that's basically an impossible feat for ANYTHING that has had more than a million units shipped.
Fact is, the HW is selling out in MANY areas. I know it really causes you agonizing pain to accept that fact, but there it is. Suck it up kiddo. ...Reuters confirms what Tretton said.
Also: "Jack Tretton Caught In Lie Again * Scribbled on October 21st, 2010 by Jonah Falcon "
FFS how is this site not filtered?
Article is FAKE, and marked as such (as if that'll do any good)
They provide evidence with links and you can google the comments yourself for further validity. No name site? You might be correct. Factual? Yep. :)
@Below
I have no idea what you meant with this. Another news piece related to the "sold" numbers? It's factual that all three companies claim ship as sold, yet were talking about Sony here. In THIS article. The links they have, are whimsical and true. So the only argument here is, "My console is being picked on".
Love how you brought up the common sense thing though. Reuters seems to be the only one so far claiming "Sold" while gamestop and Ign say shipped. Agree with on Pachter though. Can't believe the guy has his own show.
No name site? You might be correct. Factual? NOPE :) I'll trust Reuters over GameStooge thanks. GameSTooge can CLAIM somebody is lying all they want, however unless they have evidence it is just that, nothing more than a claim. Unless of course you think Michael Pachter's estimates are FACTS!!
LET ME REPEAT THAT FOR THOSE WHO MAY HAVE MISSED IT:
Sony Says : We sold over 1mil in America Pachter says: My guess is 300 000
And these idiots are claiming Sony is lying based on PACHTER'S guess. Doesn't look like a SHRED of evidence to anybody common sense. Be skeptical of Sony's reports all you want, that's COOL, but to call them liars and write smear articles based off Michael Pachter's guesstimates??? Get a clue GameStooge.
EDIT: "This pretty much just trumps your whole "reuters" thing. http://ps3.ign.com/articles... " You mean the IGN article that quotes..you guessed it...Michael Pachter
I don't get what the problem is. They all report shipped to retailers are sold because they are sold. Sony/MS/Nintendo have sold those units to retailers so they are sold. Yet your only calling out Sony about this and assuming that it is their responsibility to report actually sales number to fanboys who have nothing better to care about.
Sold=Shipper. At this point you guys are so blinded by your bias and ignorance you can't see that your arguing over semantics.
Oh yeah, and the article you are using as the foundation of this pointless argument cites and annalists best guess as it's sold numbers.
Technically, shipped is sold in Sony's eyes. Sony wouldn't take bake the shipped units, hence it is sold.
It's just the misconception that consumers assume that sold means to customer, but Sony's customer is technically first and foremost retailers whom then resell them to consumers.
With that said, why are they all of sudden lumping in Latin America with North America?
look at the one who wrote this article and submitted it to N4G!!! and then take a look at the ones telling Sony they didn't sell 1 million Move hardwares and are actually believing an analyst who barely does his job at analyzing sales trend in the video game industry!
The issue is now closed. Sony SHIPPED 1 million units.
Isn't it weird that in months gone by, SOny fans have argued until they were blue in the face that Sony ONLY reports sold to consumers.
Yet, here we are with the facts, seeing Sony reporting sold, when really they mean shipped. Of course, they only corrected themselves when people started asking 'shipped or sold'? I am glad that we have websites keeping Sony honest - well at least this time!
What's even worse is, the usual Sony fanatics spinning this saying that what is shipped to retailers is automatically sold? Really?
Gimme a break you Sony fans. I was laughing at you before, but now I just feel sorry for you.
NPD never reported Move sales since they have stopped disclosing monthly sales.... It was Michael Patcher who 'guestimated' 300K sales....
So let me rephrase that question for you....
If Michael Patcher GUESSES 300K and Tretton still claims 1 million sales.... Who do u trust more??? Sony CEO or some guy who pulls stuff out of his @ss
Going by Patchers history, I don't like my odds supporting him...
and that was his estimate! NPD didn't release any number to the public regarding move sales so where the hell did you drag that number from!!! and once again even if it did sell 300K it would be for the month of its launch which was in September 2010 on the 19th. This news says Sony sold 1 million Move hardware since 19 sept 2010 to Oct 21st 2010!!! thats just 31 days since the MOVE launched so Go figure, 1 million sold in 1 month! perhaps you may have been right if you were counting only september!
you do realize that since Move is sold out EVERYWHERE in this case shipped equals sold?
you do realise that all the number that all companies ever report are shipped units? only NPD are "sold" numbers
you do realise that NPD are US only and don't include Wallmart, and therefore meaningless?
you do realise that players that use motion controllers have unfair advantage over gamers with regular controllers just like it happens on PC with people with mouse and keyboard vs people with joysticks?
there's no way that someone with a controller can aim and react as fast as someone with Move and that's why Killzone 3 devs are splitting the multiplayer based on the controller you use to keep it balanced
The move is great and all but it hasn't sold 1 million units... Jack Tretton is one of my big reasons of hatting the ps3... ( I own one and do have the move controller) God i don't know which one lies more Jack Tretton or peter molyneux
Jonah Falcon is the liar here, most of his backup information was written by him or someone else writing for his sight Most of what he says are lies by Tretton are miss quotes or fanboys spinning things to seem like lies.
Jack Tretton never said sold one he said shipped. If that is lieing to Jonah Falcon then Microsoft and Nintendo are liars too, because they quote ship to retail numbers not sales to customers.
Seems to me the name of this site is appropriate. Also they seem to have a serious hate on for Sony.
journalism or lack thereof. so glad i don't believe everything i see online. someone tell me the last time M$ told the truth. i'm not giving this whack site any hits lol.
Sony's customers are the retailers. Sony doesn't sell directly to the general public.( At least not on this scale) The only noteworthy thing in this article is that they sold 1 million units to retailers in North and South America combined.
I see no quote in there from Tretton, only the words of the writer. While it's not unusual for people to lie, whether accidentally or not, this is a situation where you can't blame Tretton since there's absolutely no proof of him saying sold versus shipped.
Sony reports actual consoles sold to consumers, because each and every console has a barcode/serial number scanned at time of purchase -- is and are trackable per unit. People who state this is not possible, know nothing of retail inventory management in 2010. Units can be tracked to the week, day and even HOUR if you like with each console's unique ID tracked.
Look at any PS3 box at retail and you will see the codes clearly printed, and scanned. Some are printed right on your receipt when purchased.
MOVE is different. It does not have any individual barcode per unit. Is only scanned per sale and most importantly, is an ACCESSORY not a console.
Accessories are tracked differently, as they are purchased in bulk from the distributor or merchant and so are counted differently as SHIPPED.
It's that simple. Everyone is arguing over semantics.
Consoles are tracked per item sold, because they CAN be tracked and each sale registered individually. Accessories are tracked as shipped because they CAN'T and are just that, accessories with no unique identifying code for per-unit tracking.
Why do you care about the sales hd motion controls a hardcore games don't mix. It's not going to extend the system life.
I think the real problem is the over hype and misinformation which is actualy getting some sheep to buy into it.
What is hillarious is the exceptance of sony's motion games over every one else. 3rd parties see this as the equivalent of the nintendo effect where only their games will sell. The sales arguement is not changing the minds of devs. They will continue to patch it in.
Sony just needs the hardcore to be excited.
Truthfully I'm seeing alot of moves on the shelf. I've even tried to get a few gamers to give it a try. On top of this these number are pretty low.
If the wii is the standard measure for success well even the shipped number shows they did not even have confidence in the sales.
Well interesting enough 3 million doesn't matter and no one cares about this "war" simply because we all know the hardcore wants it to fail and we all know this is all a product of past pr lol.
It's not going to end all that well. Before you know it people will start saying the eyetoy was fun and hardcore.
The only people coming to this site is Sony fans. That is what is even more sad. That's ok because no one cares if they lied or not seriously.
Wow im a bot and please name the etc games because thats a long list right and really why does sport chapion only have a few games in it?
No one cares about halo or mag or kz3. Heavy rain is traded in as soon as it's beat? I mean really what is on the horizon to get excited about?
Dont get mad im just stating how a large portion of people feel. Sony did a way better job on the PS3 1st prty games and seriously they are almost there, yet they are lacking some things in a effort to wow a small group of gamers.
There is a pool of around 10-20 million hardcore gamers out there yet for some reason sony cant get these guys to buy the same games.
Im sure you enjoy your machine as I enjoyed my neo geo. Also I tried to tell these sheep about the calibration issue a long time ago actualy sony had enought time to fix it yet didn't.
Oh well as long as some one is happy. Enjoy your exclusives.
He said shipped not sold to consumers. In other words sold to retailers. Its very clear what he said.
This is the first time i know of Sony using shipped instead of sold figures so what is the big freaking deal?.
Even if they shipped 2.5 million in 30 days. I would say at least 50% of those have been sold to consumers. Thats stlll over a million without Japan which is still a great feat.
Lol! at all the x360 fans out in full force and still complaining about what PS3 fans said or are saying. We must really have hurt your feeling huh?
but out of my nearly 2 full friends list only about 4 people have one. Move doesn't have 2.5 million users and I'd bet my jordans on it. Be a fanboy all you want but sony, M or nintendo aren't going to come out and say that their product is selling like shit. It's the psychology of business: create the belief that everyone has adopted a new trend, that way, whoever takes in that propoganda will feel left out(humans are social creatures) and feel the need to 'catch up' and be apart of it. This is how corps that try to sell you something think. Business is War and all War is Deception. 'The Art of War' by Sun Tzu is very popular in the business world
your nickname = impossible to believe you have a ps3. :)
it's unreal too see desperated xbox fans so full of hate because of move success, they were so happy after the "100 000" number, and now, they know they can add another failure to the big list "bububu bluray is dead", in the long gaming history, they are the worst and most misinformed people of all generation, never seen that in the atari/amiga, sega/nintendo, time.
is a lying douche bag and he always has been, and always will be. He thinks this is the old days when Sony lied about pretty much everything, and got away with it.
Well in case you didnt notice Jack, a few folks are trying to change for the better over there at Sony. Your the boss but that attitude clearly didn't come from you.
i got a hater now? LOL thx for the attention. now i know the guy who keeps following me and giving me disagrees for NO reason in the past 6 days XD. and no caps are for emphasis dude . did i make you CRY? with my logic? Xbox fanboy (you) 0. me 1 :D dont make a name just to convince people that your not a troll. LOL @ you hating on move
If only people could put this much energy into shit that actually matter in the world. I could only imagine how much better of a place the world would be.
It's incredible how much energy fanboys put into such irrelevant shit!
I guess you guys haven't been looking around and seen all the piles and piles of unsold Move stuff. Sony is shipping it and it's just sitting around.
This isn't the first time that Sony has tried to pass off shipped numbers instead of sold numbers and it's the very first game I warned people to watch out for now that the NPD isn't reporting units sold through at retail anymore. They have been playing that game since the PS2 days.
How many times are you going to let Sony lie to you? Seriously...
no name site.
They dont lie, they will be sued by shareholders. Its just manipulated by shitty websites like urs.
...the Sony Defense force, they are also all joined up with the New Sony Kill Kinect Campaign...
If this was a Microsoft guy.....
lol @ the approvers.
Its sellnig out folks, and they would ship it if there wasnt demand for it. Stores wouldnt take it.
Such stupidity. You cant claim a number as sold when its not in a publicly traded company.