Hideo Kojima, legendary game creator and industry voice, recently tweeted about his feelings towards the disparity between Japanese level design and Western level design. And it wasn't pretty.
Kojima sounds like he really dislikes the west. Maybe this is why he will never make a full fledged Metal Gear on the Xbox?
"It's not a direct attack, but Kojima shows a clear disdain for Western-style development." How? He simply gave his opinion about the differences in Japanese and Western level design. Author fails.
He only expressed his opinion on how Japanese and western developers create game environments. How that was translated into "slamming" by author is beyond me.
Let's not forget to vote down the sites people. It doesn't annoy me more than seeing journalist spin the source like this.
i hate twitter.
No offense to Kojima. But him and some other Japanese big shots/former big shots are really segregating the gaming industry. Not that I'm saying they are "attacking" western devs. But they continue to go on and on about western games. Ultimately creating a gap. Well the console industry I'm talking...On the pc side Blizzard, Valve and the Indies are flourishing. SE may like the pc platform but they left "western" and Japanese pc gamers alike in disgust after that abomination that is ff14. I guess you could say SE has brought both sides together on pc even more.
^^ Wow - is someone pointing a gun at your head and making you come here? This is a news aggregation site - it's for news. People can comment on the news and that's it. There's no right to a discussion or anything else here. If your comments are boring or stupid, other people get to shut you up. Perfect. If you want to chat with like minded people, go to a forum (try www.xbox.com for starters eh?). r.
Author fail indeed... I was reading the quote and I was thinking "hmmm thats intresting I can remember textures in MGS4 being really high" and than the article moves on to say that Kojima doesn't like Western programming. The author just pulled that out of his ass.
Read the next part of the tweet "For my next project, I'm going to mention to the staff to throw out the old ways of production. Do not create pretty images, create a beautiful world. Designers shouldn't focus only on their part, but also borrow the programmer's strength to maximize the quality. We shouldn't measure quality by parts, we will measure by the quality and completion of the entire world."
Kojima I mean. It's just his opinion but theres some truth to it.. Anyway the end result is we buy and enjoy them no matter what. Some win some don't... My 2Cents...
Naughty Dog and Santa Monica have proven that they have great level designers. For me they are the only true stand outs along with Rayman, PoP and Beyond good and evil designers. Japanese as far as level design when you factor in Nintendo franchises have been excellent from Mario to SoTN to The MGS series on a whole. I love both but Naughty dog is there. Insomniac is there with Rachet and Clank. Santa Monica is there. I do not consider most open world games level design based but Infamous should get a nod along with Sly series.
Kojima didn't even slamed Western-style design. He simply compare the difference between the two. And he's right. Western games like Halo used a lot of techniques like bump-mapping to bring out the graphics. While Eastern games like Okami rely on their arts, styles, and expressions to bring out the graphics. Anyway, the author is bullsh*tting.
Reading this article made me feel like I just sat for an hour of FOX news.
"Like Halo..." One of the worst looking big current-gen franchises, is not the best example of comprehensive coding... *OMG bump-mapping O_o* How about ray-tracing, deferred rendering or parallax-occlusion mapping? But Kojima's not really making a lot of sense here... In the end, the device you play on still has to draw the environment where better tech results in better picture overall.
I'm pretty sure Bioshocks art design was created by Western Developers, and Bioshock had both great technology (at the time) AND great environments/artwork.
yea he sure hates it
I believe that was a decision by Konami. Kojima didn't approve it. That's why he took the money from the sales and created his own studio and separated from Konami.
then he left to make his own studio. also it was inferior with framerate issues.
And mgs3 was bieng ported to xbox but they decided not to. He had no problem with that. Mgs twin snakes was on gamecube and metal gear was on nes. He puts games on whatever platform makes sense to him. He is not biased he has no loyalty and he has the freedom and success to do what he wants. Im sure he ok'd rising being his baby and will make sure quality is up to par. Anything even remotely associated with him like castlevania is top notch. He simply likes the artistic approach and designs of the east that doesnt mean he hates the 360 or the west, im sure he respect many western developers.
I can't think of any exact quotes, but I know I've read many positive quotes from his mouth about western development. Also the title is a bit misleading, hes talking about style, ie. Art. Level Design is generally used to describe feel and playability. Not so much visual.
You mean like Metal Gear Solid 2 and the new Metal Gear Rising? You know the MGR that Kojima himself announced for the 360 at E3?
he announced it because konami made him do it.he really doesn't want anything to do with the game, but mg is his baby and he can't just walk away from it.mgr doesn't have his full backing (the 1st in the series not to)that should tell you something.
"he announced it because konami made him do it" Read minds do ya? proof please
He sure did, and then he got on Sony's stage and proceeded to emphasize that the true Metal Gear sequel would be on the PSP as Peace Walker. His body language was pretty clear in stating that he didn't want to be on that stage.
MGS 2 came late and was inferior with framerate issues,etc. Also he didn't work on that port which is why it was so terrible. Metal Gear Rising is a spinoff,not a real mgs game.[even kojima said it that same E3 when he revealed peace walker for psp] why do you think its an action game with swords and has no relation to the mgs story? Also don't act like they didn't pay kojima to go to the stage.
"he announced it because konami made him do it" lmfao, So you are saying not only does Kojima-san, owner of kojima productions not have any say in what platform he chooses to dev on but he also has no say in whether or not he makes a personal appearance at a Live game event. lol, pffft if it was any other dev you fanboys would be screaming "he sold out!" but, nah if its Kojima somehow theres no way he's doing it at least in part for the huge potential profits that multiple platforms offer, in other words ps3+360=$$$$....oh nooooo it must be because the lil powerless fellow was forced against his will. lol All this despite past MGS titles on multiple platforms including xbox, then some actually believe a dev would make the "true" sequel to his most profitable well known franchise on a handheld that certainly won't raise the bar over its predeccessor nor is the device known for strong software sales, considering its plaque with piracy. lmfao, Did you guys just start following the gaming industry last week? JOY
IDK JOY. I'm not privy to what goes on behind closed doors at Konami or any other big company but Kojima probably does have to do things that his paymasters ask him to-it's pretty normal ion business to do what the boss says, isn't it? Same as with Gabe being puished onstage at the Sony conference at E3-I doubt he really wanted to do that and wouldn't have unless EA made it to be in his best interests. Unless you're the master of everything you do there's always someone with the authority to make you do something-even stuff you aren't comfy with and even if you're a big shot game director. Did that happen in these cases? IDK and neither do any of us but I don't know whether either would have done exactly what they did without sopme kind of pressure. Gabe had to eat his words and Kojima DID do the weird "PW is the REAL sequel" thing the next day so I don't think the arguments are that silly even if the truth is probably somewhere between the two points of view. I wouldn't discount either without more evidence or knowledge myself, though. Also, I doubt ANY of this had to do with Koj being a Sony fan of any kind-his games have graced tons of platforms in the past. No, I just think Rising is a very different flavoured game which Koj doesn't have his usual level of input into as he was giving the younger team chance to stretch their wings. I think it was as much a "there you go! See what you can do on your own. Fly my monkeys!!" type of thing as much as him saying it wasn't the kind of game he'd make himself. So, those saying it's not true MG have a point but not for the reasons, imho, that they think. I'm a big MGS fan and don't think Rising looks as much my kind of game, tbh, but that doesn't stop it being a great game in it's own right and we'll just have to see but we should all agree it isn't much like, from what we've seen, normal MG games, is it? Because of MGS4 being PS exclusive and other multiplats with a heavy PS heritage out of Japan (like RE5 or SF4-even though they've been on many platforms a lot of gamers have histories playing them on Sony consoles by now)selling better on the PS3 it could be argued that Rising needed to be a different kind of game to sell best across the two platforms as most MGS fans would already have a PS3 and MGS4, no? So to me Rising was always going to be a different type of game and Koj giving it to the kids just made this more certain, that's all. No fanboyism involved!
"I'm not privy to what goes on behind closed doors at Konami or any other big company but Kojima probably does have to do things that his paymasters ask him to-it's pretty normal ion business to do what the boss says, isn't it?" -It most certainly is, so then why the assumption that Kojima is being forced to bring MGS to the 360 at all? If anything this is just consistent with most dev's this gen, HD game dev is very expensive and ALL 3rd party dev's are looking to make better profits= multiplatform. So once again I don't consider this a situation of Kojima being forced, coerced or in anyway being hesistant to do Rising at the insistance of Konami, seems logical to me that it was just a natural/logical next step for a game developer/business descision. -ps3 has alot more consoles in homes and Gabe is anticipating an eventual Valve game release on the ps3, its in his best interest to apologize for his negative comments related to ps3, http://www.1up.com/news/gab... but I wouldn't say his apology means now that he LIKES the ps3 architechture, just that he wants to make money from future multiplat sells, like it or not there is still money to be made and he's still running a business afterall just like Kojima. -Listen the whole point of my response to xXxSeTTriPxXx was that he has absolutely no basis for his claim that kojima was forced to bring MGS franchise over to the 360, stop making up BS, just it accept at face value= theres money to be made from multiplatform development and move on. In fact while working on MGS4 for the ps3 he says out of his own mouth that he wants to work on the 360: “Well, yes, I do have strong interest in creating something for the Xbox 360. In the US and Europe, it is selling, and I think it will sell a lot this year as well. I’m a fan of Gears of War as well, it’s very interesting." -Kojima-san http://www.aeropause.com/20... -hmmm, Kojima wanted to work on 360 + 360 fans want to play MGS4 thus Rising is born, seems Kojima is just going where the demand/$$$$ is, as a gamer I don't see anything wrong with that?....oh wait lets just assume Konami FORCED him to say that too. lol -Also while I respect Kojima very much again lets not kid ourselves Peace Walker is a handheld game he's trying to sell on a significantly less powerful and heavily pirated device, frankly he has to do his best to sell PW on that platform, oh but at the same time I'm sure anything to do with MGS(his reputation) that he is genuinely deeply engaged in and will make it a quality experience but doesn't it seem wierd that ANY dev would make the "true" sequel to his biggest IP by far on a lesser platform? and especially for a guy who is well known for using that IP to push the tech further than whats been done before. So I'm certainly inclined to believe MGS Rising is NOT a direct sequel to MGS, in the same way ODST isn't a sequel to Halo3, however I do believe it will be a quality title within the MGS universe/franchise and thats cool with me. At the same time I dont believe PW is a true sequel for MGS4 either, if so I would be dissapointed, since I much rather see that on a console. JOY
"he announced it because konami made him do it" Read minds do ya? proof please The proof is that at E3 he didnt take the 360 slim that was offered by Microsoft as a gift.He immediately LEFT the Microsoft conference at E3 when he announced RISING!!! Then came to sony to announce peace walker a true sequel to MGS series.
"Body language." "Konami made him do it." "He wants nothing to do with Rising." You guys need to get a fucking life.
I can flag the article as "TROLLING"? yeah, with the bold, capital letter like that!
Kojima didn't attack anyone at all. Simply highlighted what he thought of as different approaches to development.
Before going all "West is good too", I'd actually like to know the context. The guy has not been about hating Western games. In fact, he's praised Western game design many times before. I would at least give the benefit of the doubt.
i kinda see where he's going at with this, if anyone saw the MGS2 dvd, his development team actually built the entire oil plant out of Lego before going on to programme the game, now according to him Japanese devs do this quite alot.
...isn't this the chap that thinks stealth is running around with a barrel on his head...O_o...C'mon now Kojima, make a game people care about then open your ignorant mouth. Flameproof suit at the ready...lol
Because Syphon Filter is as iconic and successful as MGS is right? /s No one cares about MGs, hence no one bought it right? /s MGS4 is simply one long movie right? /s Fail.
why are all his characters white? It's the western approach to software development that he dislikes. God of War and Uncharted, compared to Ico or SOTC, are, obviously, vastly more technically impressive with lots of polygons, shaders and high res textures that make one go "wow," but Ico's environments and atmosphere surpass anything in those technical giants. It's a fundamental difference between westeren and eastern approach to life (although it's changing nowadays as both move closer to each other). One looks outward and emphasizes technology and aims to increase ownership of more and better things/objects while the other looks inwards and seeks spiritual enlightenment.
I guess he hasen't seen the copy paste job square enix did with ff14 :P
Japanese games will opt for smaller, more compact environments that are as detailed as possible. Where as Western developers tend to opt for bigger environments, even at the cost of detail in the environment.
Kojima's tweet is just an obersvation and he isn't "slamming" anyone. He is just saying -- this is how things are done in the west and this is how we do things here in the east. How is that a slam? I will tell you how, this site is just stirring up controversy. You read the headline and read the tweet it may come off as bad. If you just read the tweet alone, it's harmless. Any "disdain" is being read into this, UNTIL Kojima specifies otherwise. You can't just take someone's words and run with it. That isn't factual reporting. This author is interjecting his own bias and feelings.
I do agree western environment tend be generic and blnad since the always go for a more realistic approach , but then again you have games like uncharted and gow3 with probably some of the most beautiful environment out now.
are you serious? are you really being serious?? a twilight reference, in a video game article, about one of the greatest developers ever.
No just no.....-_-
As Usual:::::::::: http://www.lolblog.co.uk/wp...
That is so fuckin awesome!
That is a bit misleading if you ask me. He didn't slam the west simply gave a comparison as to how the west and East does their stages.
Misleading headline he just pointed out differences between design choices, neither is right or wrong just different, he didn't "slam" or attack Western developers just make an observation. @GenoZStriker lol you beat me to it.
someone is trying to cause a war. I like how he discerns the differences because it means that he hasn't forgotten his roots. Sooner or later European developers are going to have their own of way of designing levels. Well, European style is actually a balance of the two.
I always has great respect for European developers. They do seem to have a unique blend of West and East design/artistic philosophies.
http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3... East http://xboxhype.com/wp-cont... West I'm not seeing a difference. http://meodia.com/userfiles... East http://cache-04.gawkerasset... West
You should feel bad for the Quantom theory pics, knowing damn well that was trying to be a carbon copy of GoW.
not in your choice of examples you're not.
Those are quite possibly the worst examples you could use seeing as MGS4 and COD4 are totally different games, and Quantum Theory was a lazy attempt at making a Japanese version of a Western game to appeal to Western gamers.
The article is talking visuals.
Out of all those MGS4 still one of the best graphical games out.
yeah, the greatest cutscenes of all time lol
http://o.aolcdn.com/gd-medi... East http://pictures.topspeed.co... West http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3... East http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/... West (Yummmmm... flat muddy textures) http://blog.storybird.com/w... East http://xbox360media.ign.com... West http://ps3.ign.com/dor/obje... East http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/... West @Surgreev: Read up on some gems from Cliffy B.
Well I guess the environments in the 2008 Prince of Persia game were created using programming. Dude. WHAT THE HELL. Vanquish is a Japanese developed game right? Why the hell do the environments look so bland in that game. He pretty much just insulted every western environment artist.
Not really and Western devs are constantly ripping on Japanese games so I don't really see the problem if he was in fact trying to slam western games.
He said that Western environments only look good becuase of the shaders they use and what not.
"Kojima has stoked the fire." - Dan Crabtree lol
thank you kojima i rike you i rike you alot,a perfect example is the new "dante" in DMc
We got a mix of both and out came Uncharted 2. I'm done here.
That's about the only Triple A title worthy of keeping. I think people sell away more Western games than they do with European/Japanese games. Just imagine a world where only Halo, Call of Duty, or GTA are played... I really don't get it.
If anybody actually wasted their time looking at Kojima's quote then they would know he is not slamming Western-style level design just stating the difference that he feels is between eastern and western-style level design.
I don't know much about kojima but I'd say it's unclear whether this is an attack and therefore we shouldn't be seeing 'slams' in the title. the author thinks kojima's comment is a thinly-veiled insult but do we really know for sure? if it WERE an attack, I'd have to point out the well-crafted level design in orig bioshock and politely ask kojima to stop acting like a pr1ck...
well, everyone that plays video games know that the "west" (no offense to anyone Asian countries/nation) makes visually stunning and interesting video games and that developers obviously took there time...... now thats including PC,PS3, and 360........examples Crysis 1-2 and more (PC), GOW3(PS3), Uncharted 2(PS3) and more, GOW 1-3 (360), Halo: All of them (360) and more..... If anything, It does sound like he is trying to "down talk," the "west".......... P.S Why the hell does it takes so long to download a got damn MGS4:MGO update, and the hell is it separated from PSN?...... LMAO KOJIMA HATE'N LOL JK
Let me start of with if you think halo(very good games) are stunning you need to check your vision cuz until reach all halo games where slightly behind in that category compared to games coming out at the same time. Other than that those are all REALLY AMAZING looking games. BUT not ONE of them are artistic. They have flush realistic landscapes that are heavily saturated with color. But NONE have a unique art style. And finally MGO has a separate because producer Konami NOT developer Kojima productions is retarded.
Until this gen almost all of the visually stunning games that came out came from Japan. Most of them still do and it's sad that you think that FPS' and shooters represent the most stunning games this gen when very few are that at all.