Should developers bow to the wishes of their ever-demanding fans, or might there be a value to sticking to their original vision?
Yes and No. At times it helps. Not to mention they're the ones who buy your product. But when they complain about things like character design, No. I understand Dante's an iconic character, but just roll with and see first. If it doesn't work change it in the next game.
noooo don't listen to fans devlope a game no one wants and watch it fail :P
look at the maker of Infamous......... we hate the new character and they respond quickly
Fans are the consumers. If they really don't like something about what is in this case a reboot to a beloved franchise, then there is something wrong. I don't remember this much hate toward the new Castlevania even though it completely different from the rest. Redesigning Dante is fine bu trying to sell him as the exact opposite as we've grown to know him is not going to work amounts the series biggest fans. I have this feeling that the people defending this new "Dante" are not even DMC fans and just really couldn't care either way. I probably wont pick this game up (I might rent it) because the main character is so lame. I hope I'm wrong though and this is almost a creation story about how Dante became Dante. However I don't see how Emo Dante can transform into smooth Dante over the course of a single game. @jjacinto23(above): Thats because they knew people weren't pissed for nothing. Even though our responses were overblown, there were legitimate character design issues with the old-new Cole. The cool thing about Sucker Punch is that they weren't so arrogant to think they knew what the consumer wanted more than the consumer.
between listening to the fans and letting the fans dictate how a game will be. It's always smart to listen to your fans, especially when it comes to making a sequel and listening to problems fans had with the previous game (for example, I would hope Mercury Steam will listen to the feedback and improve the camera and invisible walls for their next Castlevania). That said, if a developer has a vision that involves doing something different, they should stay true to that vision and not change it for the fans, as most all fansbases tend to be very resistant to change. Sometimes you have to shake things up to revitalize a franchise. It may or may not work, but always playing it safe will lead any IP to a slow death. Sometimes you need to take risks.
Bungie, Insomniac, Naughty Dog, and Suckerpunch have all listened to their fans and look how their games have turned out!! Absolutely terribl--- terrific.
comes to reboots than ya they should listen to fans of that series. However, sequals and new IP's fans shouldnt really have a say in the developers creativity. They ( the devs) have a vision and they need to be expressed the way they want, after all they are the ones making the world and experiance. In some cases the fans can give input to sequals but ultimatly it really is up to do what they want to do from there.
The main thing to remember is that this is a reboot. It's not the same DMC that you're use to, and I wouldn't be surprised if the gameplay was similar, but different as well. Give the game a try, and if it's not up to par then you can count on the next game going back to the original.
Just fuck NT and their new Dante.
i think it looks pretty decent
Yes and No. Completely depends on what is being asked. There's no absolute answer here. Player A makes a reasonable request that might enhance the game while Player B makes a request that would cause imbalances. Developers need to ascertain how the request would affect the balance and goals of the game first and then the benefits, if any, of the request. If you choose to just ignore your user base, it doesn't mean you can't make a great game. It's very rare that developers don't utilize usability and feedback tests with their games to get general feedback from a wide range of users, including hardcore and casual gamers.
no if its a couple of fans / something trivial and stupid / a basic design decision in the case of DmC: Universal reaction Messing with cannon and art style = very fan oriented sensitive imo
If you want to innovate then you need to break misconceptions and sometimes that takes having to stick to your guns despite what the fans want. You can't please everyone, so at least go for the product as you would envision it. And besides...the fans only want what they want because it was something new to them in the first place. It's hard to go back to "first"...you can't keep making the first of anything, unless you're like Square who makes a new FF every time. Franchises exist BECAUSE of their continuity. Which unfortunantely can damn them to stagnation.
San Andreas 2 Listen Rockstar!!! :)
The good ones do Bungie, Naughty Dog, Insomniac, Polyphony Digital. That doesn't mean they will do everything their fans want but the do listen.
can i have examples of those developers listening to their fans? im curious. show me examples. :)
insomniac returning the weapon wheel for R3 PD with weather and damage system in GT5
I know I'll get a ton of disagrees for this one, but Treyarch for balancing out their next Call of Duty and listening to what fans want and don't want. No commando, no stopping power, more recoil in the guns (based on what people who have played it have said), no easy quickscoping, no martrydom, no juggernaut, no deathstreaks, no kills that count toward killstreak kills, killstreaks such as the chopper gunner are much harder to use, no infinite sprint, the inclusion of the Zombie mode, no danger close, a theatre mode for recording matches and catching and banning boosters and glitchers, tactical insertion doesn't work in free for all (and some other mode I forgot), no shotguns as a secondary weapon (which is now primary thank you treyarch), gun game which was requested by the community, deeper gun/emblem/title customization, golden camos return, a true barebones mode straight at launch, bots, no resupply of noob tubes from grenade launchers (and I assume, but I'm not 100% sure) and equipment such as claymores and launcher ammo, and a few other changes I can't think of at the moment that Treyarch implemented because the community requested it.
They've never done anything that majorly pissed fans off then ignored complaints and concerns. Square has done nothing but even back in the days they were Squaresoft, meanwhile you've got someone like NIS and Atlus throwing in soundtracks, bonus material and multilingual voice and subtitle options without ever being asked.
"That doesn't mean they will do everything their fans want but they do listen." And that's key. Many of Bungie's fans wanted Reach to basically play exactly like a prettier version of Halo 3, and Bungie did the right thing by often saying "NO" to their fans. They listened, and changed things where it made sense, but didn't sacrifice their vision just to placate every whim of the fanbase. That's how a smart developer should operate.
When they make drastic changes like in DMC, a character that's around 5 years who's being turned over to a relatively new and unproven dev, yes. inFamous, they probably should have stuck to their guns. Especially if they make more changes for i3.
Yes they should because we're the ones buying them. If you dont put what we wont then we wont Buy your product anymore.
The only time devs should listen to their fans is when it could hurt their sales if they dont. For instance, 90% of everyone that played KZ2 didn't like the weightiness. I know alot of you dont like the idea of them messing with it, but its really the main reason why the game didn't sell the way it could have.
Yup, i hate the fact that it takes 3 seconds to look behind me. By that time I'm already dead.
i've stumbled across a website where every "gamer" just b!tches about good games amazing =P
Yeah, Kzz2 was a bit crap in that respect. Along with the storyline. @solar I think Crysis had far more interesting gameplay, you had more choice for a start. The fun factor was only limited by your imagination.
KZ2 only had graphics on it's side. much like Crysis. @lolzers i agree about crysis. but i cant compare the two because the ps3 fanboys will call me an xbot (even though i dont own a 360 only a Ps3). im trying to stay on the DL. shhhhhhh!
no one bitched about stupid shit like this. no one said to the Karnov dev's "hey!your jumps are too floaty! make it more like mario's jumps!" they just played the damn game until they got good at it. kids these days play a game for five seconds and are like, "its too weighty, slow, etc, we hate it". i guess i just come from a time when the devs handed you a game, and you had fun with what was contained within. now everyone wants to put their two cents in and basically make every game into call of duty
No, Karnov was shit imo. It was a crap game, I had far more fun with Strider. @asyouburn I never could get into it, fair play for beating it, it was a bitch.
strider was infintely more fun, but i still stomped the piss out of karnov. i wasnt gonna let it beat me! EDIT yeah it was really hard, though not mega man 2 hard
More like should publishers
well yeah, who else is going to buy their products?
well ok some do but for the most put our input into the actual idea of the game is next to none -_- our main choice is we want a sequel in thats it -_- even then we only get a sequel if we speak with our pocket books
i konw ninja theory should
Don't listen to the fans! Or else the game could turn out to be great!
listen to their fans, but the developers should know when the fans are asking for stupid things.
People know what they want and what they don't want. Problem is, you can't please everyone. You have to judge what would be in the best interests of your game in listening to the fans, but also in maintaining a vision you have. It's not easy. You can't give everyone what they want because not everyone agrees on what they want. But, I would say that if a majority agrees on something, it would be wise to listen.
Take for example, Front Mission Evolved. So turn based strat games weren't selling, and they wanted to see if the IP could be turned into a TPS. That's fine, give it a shot. You need to make money. Ignore that fans on that one and give it a try. But then you go and write one of the dumbest stories in video game history. In the first instance, I understand that the company vision trumps fan outcry. In the second, fan outcry should get that guy fired. When your artistic vision is THAT awful, you don't get to trust it anymore.
Only if they aren't raving lunatics. 85% of n4g should not be listened to, which just so happens to be the ps3 fanboi majority of this site. I made the percentage up, but it's just about right really.
on the developer and franchise. that's because I've noticed this generation that some developers are screwing with their franchise in a negative way. a company like Nintendo for the most part knows what the people that buy Zelda,Kirby,Mario,etc. want. yeah, they make mistakes too, but for the most part they make quality games. then you have companies like capcom and square enix who are going all over the damn place not knowing where they wanna go. they make and published LOTS of mediocre games this gen, but they are so big that they can still keep going strong without it affecting them financially as a whole, but their reputation from the fans. the fans have some say, but for the most part, we really don't matter to them. they change or makes games nobody asks for and it flops. finally you have the niche companies like atlus and nis America who HAVE to listen to their fanbase because it's so small. if they didn't listen to them, they probably would have gone broke a long time ago. the fans keep them afloat and stable. they bring over games nobody even hears of and takes huge risks each and everytime they do that. they depend on the fans to help them and the fans do just that. i know i like both of these companies even though the games they make/publish require a certain taste in gaming. they are not for everyone. i hope this explains it from my perspective.
Nice post! Good simple brief summation on how companies think in relation to their overall budgets. I think Nintendo and Blizzard are the only two companies that utilise their budget and marketing to apply to quality games in terms of overall consistency. There are many others like Polyphony, Bungie that come to mind, but they only generally work on one game in general which is why I can't really include them although they are awesome companies as well. Overall I can't agree more with you, Capcom and Square Enix really are sticking their hands in everywhere. I'm not sure if this is a business strategy to test their strengths, or an overall profit beats quality plan they are implementing. Of course in this day and age it's all just for the money which is kinda sad because I still remember Capcom as the side scrolling beat-em-up masters, and Squaresoft(before enix) as the great JRPG behemoth.
I think Capcom have delivered in many ways to their fans, even this generation. At the moment I'm playing DR2 which has been improved on fairly significantly in comparison to the first game. This is something I am happy about, they have listened and learnt. SF4 also is the superior version of a series I have loved since I was 12 years old. In other ways they have gone against their fans, these two cases are credit to how fans have helped them improve on their games. They listened. Whether they listen enough is a different story, but they obviously do take fans opinions on board.
If they want their money, they should... Nothing wrong with having a unique vision, but don't go crying if no one shares it. Especially if you also go through the trouble of putting down what they already like in the process. Bottom line, good or bad... WE DON'T LIKE DANTE'S NEW LOOK. GET OVER IT.
yes, developers should listen to their fans. but to an extent. say a MP game like TF2 or an MMO like WoW, if the balance of the world get's sacrificed because of a minority thinks this weapon is overpowered, or this class cant compete with this class in a duel, then what are you gaining? there are a lot of different variables. a gamers suggestion isnt always right. but as gamers we need to give ideas, opinions, thoughts, etc and let the developer decide the games' outcome. the gaming industry is a mainstream market now. (which i hate). it's about money nowadays. :(
This question is all wrong for DmC. Problem with this game is we're NOT FANS of Ninja Theory. We're fans of Devil May Cry. Some asshat put DMC in the hands of this dev, and this dev decided they were going to screw over the fanbase of the game. So, in this case, yeah they better god damn listen because we're not fans of them, we're fans of the game they're destroying.
he will eventuality become the Dante u all know. this is just a new prequel game. Dante teen years.
Developers should keep their artistic vision, but not to the extent that nobody will buy the game.
Beyond Good and Evil didn't listen to fans when the jack ass in charge made jade green and stupid looking- and look how well that game did after that. Nintendo thought Celda would fly, and they didn't listen to fans telling them to change link back. And look what happened, Gamecube was destroyed by that. So people should listen to fans when making major graphical changes.
had so much more character than twilight princess. TP just looks so generic.
Wind Waker > Twilight Princess
"Should Developers Listen to their Fans?" Yeah sure sometimes, but if this occurs all the time, then there goes all the original creativity, ideas themes stories etc. You get stuck repeating peices the fans like, such as Raving Rabbids. BTW Urahara. Fans, knew nothing about BG&E or Jade Whom was modeled after Ancel's wife...Geez. Get over Fan-service.
You should always listen to your fans. You shouldn't always react to them though if you really think they are all wet with their opinions. The vocal Internet is not always representative of what the majority of gamers think.
If you have millions of fans that buy your games then yeah you should listen to them if you want them to keep supporting your games. I do support the ideas of devs but I'm not liking what is being done with DMC and I'm a fan of the series except for DMC2. I'm glad Kojima kept making his main MGS games. If he didn't the series wouldn't be as good as it is now.
Sometimes there is this thing called "The loud minority" They are not to be listened to.
Developers should listen to the fans and not the loyalists. Loyalists never complain about things that need changing and they just go along with all the bad decisions the devs make. Listen to the majority that genuinely dislike certain features of the game and not the loyalists. It's not that hard to tell the difference.
concerning DMC they no longer have a fanbase and when the game releases it will be targeting different groups of gamers, so even if they lose support by their old fanbase, by not listening, they can create a new greater fanbase if the game is actually good. But thats if the game is REALLY good.
sometimes the fans know what they are talking about. but there are alot of times where we should accept change.change can be a good thing for a game look at castlevania sotn one of the best changes in gamming history.
fans of castlevania at the time wouldve had a cow, had they known thats how symphony was gonna be. they'd bitch and moan about how its a ripoff of super metroid and all that. "dont mess with the castlvania formula" they'd say.
Or suffer there wrath!!! We are the ones the decide to buy it or leave it on the shelf. Just like I sent Halo Reach back to Game Fly :)
In response to the articles statement: "Did fans dislike 'New Cole' because he was worse, or did they just dislike him because he was different?" Fans didnt dislike him because he was "worse" and they didnt dislike him because he was "different"... They disliked new Cole because the developers took away the fact that he was different! They made him look like a Nathan Drake macho hero guy crossed with your typical space marine and dropped completely the unique hero that made Infamous no.1 such a good game!
I'm pretty sure old Cole filled the "Space Marine in a Russian clubbing suit" position much better than the old-new Cole. In fact, how many games can you name in the last 3 or so years where there main character acted or looked at all like Nathan Drake? I truly don't understand why people think originality means to have an "elf from outer space, hunting rabbits to feed his dying mother, whom is actually a child". I think being original is doing something nobody else is, and doing it well. Therefore making it an original experience with things you are aware of. PS. Point is, Sucker Punch bitched out, and now we most likely lose the funny witty lines aimed at Coles new look all because gamers are stupid and stubborn to change.
Does nobody remember the way fans drew out the Dante they wanted for the new DmC? If so, then I'm sure you'll ALL agree that Dante looked like a effing fairy. Tinkerbell made him look like a wimp. This new Dante on the other hand actually looks like someone that would get into fights. His hair is a mess, he gets beaten up, he is affect, both, emotionally and physically by what he goes through. So if they changed him back to perfectly handsome, cocky and clean looking, it'd most likely ruin the entire story Ninja Theory has set up. And given Devil May Cry's history, it NEEDS Ninja Theory. DMC has never had a story that has truly pulled me in as much as many of the Western Games have. DMC3 was pretty badass, but it was, once again, just a "fight to fight" type of game in the end. And as for the bigger picture when it comes to this topic, I'll answer with a big, fat, NO. Fans of videogames are very fickle and have vastly different opinions on how they perceive each game. The Developer, on the other hand, have been working on this game for years and usually have a reason behind why everything is the way it is. It takes a professional and someone with an open mind in order to make these "how it should be" decisions. And that's why I'm sort of ticked at Sucker Punch (inFAMOUS 2), Capcom (RE5), and EA (MoH), to name a few. If they have an idea lined up, they should really stick to it. It may anger or slightly upset a few people, but they'll still be buying your games and playing them.
This gen is filled with idiots like YOU taking it up their backsides and I'm sick and tired of it. There's a difference between fans and loyalists: Loyalists = Never complain and love all the bad decisions made by devs. Fans = Get pissed off at bad decisions made by the devs. If you want to continue getting lubricated then carry on excepting this shit.
NT is awesome at creating a good captivating story with very believable characters. I want to see something fresh and new not same old badass dante who cared but didnt really really care. New dante looks badass still but like u said he looks like hes been through hell. Picaso didnt sit here and have someone tell him how to make his art neither should these devs. On the other hand Infamous 2 character chhange made no sense seeing as it is a direct sequel. Still i didnt really care much because i played infamous for the awesome gameplay and story, not the way cole looked.
i totally agree with he shotgun comment shotgun in games have a range of 5ft which is unbelievably unrealistic the aren't as long as a machine gun obviously but they do have some range
Is this even a real question?
ohhh no Dante's again
Is not only DMC games, but i do enjoy the Anime and Manga, i am attached to how he looks and his demeanour. That what makes him likeable to me. Very moronic idea to change it, they can refresh without changing the way Dante looks. It his personafication. PS. And Dante will be in Marvel Vs Capcom 3, look at how he look in that upcoming game.