How Square Enix Is Changing The Modern RPG

Changes in most RPGs tend to be minimal, particularly when you think about how closely most RPG fans will watch every little change in their series. But just like any genre over time, there have been some major changes since 'back in the day'. Square Enix is no stranger to changing times, and sticking around in the industry for so long comes with its own advantages.

[ShawnCollier]

Yeah, I am wishing that some of the other Japanese RPG developers would try rising up to SE's level.

[mephman]

I think they have a happy medium too. Dragon Quest caters for one side of the market and Final Fantasy caters for the other. But they aren't afraid to experiment either with other franchises and new IPs.

[Game-ur]

BioWere and Bethsaida and Atlus are the ones advancing the RPG genre, SE is suffering from lack of vision for some years.

[Reibooi]

@Game-ur

While Bioware and Bethesda made great games it's kinda hard to say they are advancing anything.

Bioware games have basically been the same with better graphics since they found success with Baldur's Gate and very little has changed since then. Sure Mass Effect is a shooter RPG hybrid but at it's core it's just a science fiction version of Baldur's Gate.

Likewise Bethsda is know for the Elder Scrolls which as largly been the same since Daggerfall with the only thing changing being the graphics.

Compare that to SE where every single game had a completely different story and combat system and it's easy to see that SE is trying to advance the genre more then most out there.

[Game-ur]

FF games only changed mechanics, they didn’t evolve and expand the experience, SE peaked at Chrono Trigger and FF6, and then the games advanced only in graphics and regressed in gameplay. Their were some exceptions like Vagrant Story, but very few. Before the merger there was always some fresh new RPG between FF games like Parasite Eve, Vagrant Story, Xenugears, FF tactics. But now they hardly pay attention to anything other than FF DQ and KH, imagine what a classic game Nier would have been if they produced it better.

In the other hand you have to credit BioWere for setting the benchmark in character interaction, and Bethesda for the amount of freedom and effect you have in the world, and also the random events that make the world fell alive.

Also Atlus have produced different kinds of RPGs while keeping the same magic system, Persona4&5 are fresh RPGs, and Devil Survivor on the DS is even better.

[bakasora]

Too late, my love and respect for Squareenix is gone.

[Kain81]

Yeah, I am wishing that some of the other Japanese RPG developers would try rising up to SQUARESOFT's level.

FIXED

[Sanrin]

It'd be nice if they could do so, without outright copying them though.

[Eamon]

completely agree.

Bring back command prompted ATB battles!! >.<

[Game-ur]

Imagine what Persona5 would look like running on the Catherin game engine, and Level 5 are making a great beautiful looking game in Ni Nu Kuni. And the new Tales game for the PS3 is taking the series to a new graphical level.

And don’t forget this generation already bright great JRPGs like Lost Odyssey, Tales of Vesperia and Valkuria Chronicles, so JRPG lovers don’t need to hang their hopes on SE anymore.

[evrfighter]

have you tried ff14 beta?

I swear it's just like playing a f2p korean mmo

[mittwaffen]

Enix make bad games, and this MMO shows they bit off Way more than they can chew.

[Sarevok]

@Game-ur
Persona 5? when did that come out? O___o;

[Game-ur]

WTF?!

sorry ment 3&4

[Nate-Dog]

I don't think using Lightning as an example of character development was a great choice. She just pouted and moaned for a lot of XIII at, well everyone, and then towards the end was a bit nicer. We didn't get much info on her backstory and she didn't develop much in the title. Unfortunately too, she was probably the best character in XIII, which shows the low standard it's characters set.

Don't get me wrong, I liked her but she wasn't anything special nor a character I would remember.

Also I agree about SE trying ti cater to different times and audiences when they notice a change, although as pointed out, XIII didn't work out for them. Let's hope Versus will be a better turnout and will return to what was good about the earlier games of the series. I hope this "darker tone" does turn out to be just that.

[mephman]

True, Lightning isn't the best example. However, Kainé is a fantastic example.

[zatrox]

What's funny is that Cavia did something with NieR SE failed at with FFXIII, a great story with great characters.

[Nate-Dog]

I haven't played FFIV (is that the one with Kainé...?) but have heard a fair bit about Kainé though.

[zatrox]

Naw, Kainé's from Nier.

[Game-ur]

Why don’t people talk about FF6? I'm I too old? A shame it doesn't get rereleased, it had the best set of characters in FF games, and their wasn't a main character, everyone had a spotlight.

[Aleusia]

We heard you the first time. You said FF peaked at 6. You like 6 alot, we get it. Nobody cares.

[TotalPS3Fanboy]

Lighting and Hope. Worst character development ever. Square Enix needs to understand that whining for 40 hours straight isn't character development.

[darthdevidem01]

This "whining"....what is it?

I've seen more whining about things from people like you than any whining from characters itself.

I'd be whiny if my mother died and I got turned into a time bomb who had to destroy his own world. Oh I'd whine A LOT.

The characters need to be realistic.....if they didn't whine, that would be very unrealistic. And Hope stopped whining in Chapter 7.....15 hours into the game.

Lightning never whined, just got angry.

Its so simple to disregard characters by saying, "oh they whinedz, they suckz"....offer constructive criticism.

Tell me what is Character Development then.....

And if you think FF13 character is the "worst" I don't think you have played very many games.

[Eamon]

darth, it is the worst in the series.

I don't think you've played many FF games. FIXED.

The level of angst in some characters in FF13 is beyond astronomical. Not to mention, we have to put up with it constantly during the first 13 hours.

The only decent character in FF13 was Sazh.

[Homicide]

Exactly Darth!

****FFXIII SPOILER***

Hope's mom died, and Hope thought Snow was the cause of it. Throughout the game, Hope wasn't really whiny - I mean not whiny as in Tidus whiny. He was angry at himself and Snow, and he had a good reason for it. He didn't have the courage to confront Snow about his mom's death, so he hated himself for being able to tell Snow about it. Finally, he had the opportunity to confront Snow about his mom's death when Snow was in a similar situation. Also, he matured and gain confidence when he spent time with Lightning.

That my friend's, is a good character with great character development. He went from a scared, lonely kid to a strong, brave, independent child. Much better than emo Cloud and Squall's character development.

***END SPOILERS***

Lightning was angry at herself for not believing Sera, and that was the only scene where it shows she was angry. She was not whiny.

[TotalPS3Fanboy]

How can you guys say Squall and Cloud are emos? Those guys are some of the most badass mofos in video game history.

Hope, on the other hand, is such an emo, whining until Chapter 7. Squall and Cloud are nothing like Hope. Cloud is an arrogant guy who lies and brags. Squall, he just doesn't say much. But they're both still pretty badass.

Seriously, when you really look back at FF13, half the time, they're just walking around whining.

Sazh was actually the only character with great character development in FF13.

SE chose to developed Hope in an annoying way. It could have been done better. Less whinning.

[oldjadedgamer]

You expect Hope to act like Squall/Cloud? A little unrealistic considering he is between 10 - 13 years old. Not a soldier. It's reaching, but any of us would whine a shit load more than Hope.

[Eamon]

Actually Cloud's 'real' personality is that of an emo. Look at him in Crisis Core and Advent Children.

But for the majority of FF7, when he's under the "fake personality", he's pretty cool.

[Homicide]

Cloud was acting as someone else, or Zack I should say, for the entire game. In actuality, he was this inexperienced, low-ranked soldier.

As for Squall, he was a whiny loner throughout his entire life. In FFVIII's plot twist, we found out Squall was a loner in the orphanage and cried a lot because of it. Now grown up, he's still a loner and rarely talks or interacts with others.

[gamingisnotacrime]

is it worth buying? amazon has it for $20
At that price, it might be tough to ignore

Edit
Already Have it!!
VC is such a pretty game

[Da One]

.....

[kratos123]

Listen to this guy vc is just too great to pass on after playing ff 13 fore 20 hours I went back to vc and started to play it fore a second time ff 13 isn't any fun just too boring fore my Damn and ff was my moat beloved rpg ever hopefully vc can take that spot now

[SprSynJn]

For $20 it is a great deal. I wouldn't advise it for the full price though. And if I can offer some advice if you do plan on getting it, do not think of it as a Final Fantasy game. If you do, it might ruin the experience.

[R420247]

lol no world to discover, no personalized characters names or jobs, its not very immersive as a real world FF13 is just a grindfest action game with nice graphics and cute girls, a poor rpg by most standards.

[CountDracula]

Well yeah after repeating the same mechanics for the last countless games, you would expect them to eventually change things up a bit.

[AllroundGamer]

who the hell is Square Enix?...

[FiftyFourPointTwo]

A once very much-loved video game company that has lost its respect this gen because of its corrupt leader, the japanese Bobby Kotick named Yoichi Wada.

[4pocalyps3]

Err...

[AllroundGamer]

sadly i know who they are... i just wanted to make a point, that who the hell should care about them now, when they became a pure moneyhungry company with westernized crappy games...

[CimmerianDrake]

And I'm not talking in some lame MMO, I'm talking about in a numbered FF game that isn't an MMO, or a spinoff. You could say that FFXII had it, but it was lame in comparison to FFIII's or FFTactics. People like the job system, why get rid of it?

[HeavenlySnipes]

In their next games. That game had the best battle system to appear in a rpg.

[TotalPS3Fanboy]

The human combo system, not the Gears system.

[4pocalyps3]

By f*cking it up?

In my eyes they are at least. They used to be better when it was Squaresoft.

[albel_nox]

This is why SE is my favorite game company. They aren't afraid of taking risks and most of the time I am satisfied with the end result.

[Aleusia]

You think SE is doing mostly good and talk smack about MGR when you have the chance. I'm going to say that anything you say should be reversed for truth.

[Homicide]

"So how exactly is Square Enix changing the modern RPG? Simple, by doing what they've always done best. Challenging the norm, taking risks, and learning from their mistakes. No part of that is particularly groundbreaking in its own right, but it's impossible to imagine what the industry would even look like without Square's participation."

Right on. That's why I like Square-Enix. They are not afraid to take risks and experiment with their games. Personally, I found FFXII to be one of the greatest and freshest JRPGs of all time. This is exactly what I've wanted. Innovative battle system with lots of customization, exploration, semi open-world, numerous side-quests, and a mature story to boot. The only thing that bogged it down was Vaan and Penelo.

I thought FFXIII had a nice battle system, and it was interesting how they kept the ATB system fresh. Also, Square-Enix brought us The World Ends With You and Dissidia this gen. I'm currently playing Nier, and it's surprisingly good. Not sure if you can label it as a SE game.

There are a few JRPG developers that do try to bring something fresh to the market, but most of them don't. They need to stop porting their only successful game or stop using features that were introduced in Ultima 3, and take a risk.

[madjedi]

First of all, who said the genre needed to change itself, probably people that don't even play rpgs and never will.

Second square isn't leading shit when it comes to console jrpgs this gen, end of discussion.

FF13 did change up from previous ff, thats good for some, unfortunately it didn't work for the game.

@homicide Nier was done by cavia, se just published it.

"There are a few JRPG developers that do try to bring something fresh to the market, but most of them don't. They need to stop porting their only successful game or stop using features that were introduced in Ultima 3, and take a risk."

Yeah here is the problem with that line of thought, they don't have ea, sony or activision to bail their ass out if a series of games flop badly.

Their usually very small companies, with limited budgets, and have a very small niche of gamers that buy their games. They can't afford to do something uber radical and piss off their small amount of fans.

They need to only give their fans the types of games they want and not listen to people that don't understand that market, and wouldn't buy their games anyway.

This is not the shooter market with near endless amount of buyers, and se is the exception not the rule, size and probably also game sales wise of jrpg devs.

I am tired of idiots screaming either change or innovation at rpg and jrpg devs in particular, without having 1 fucking clue as to what needs to either changed or innovated or why.

As for the people complaining about characters being emo, that must be some annoying trend that is popular now. But why is it these same people never complain about overmuscled and over macho soldiers/hardass/soulless characters is hilarious.

[Homicide]

"First of all, who said the genre needed to change itself, probably people that don't even play rpgs and never will."

They've been using the same formula for over 20 years. It has become stagnant. You can have something traditional and still manage it to keep it fresh like Persona.

"Second square isn't leading shit when it comes to console jrpgs this gen, end of discussion."

Um..yes they are. Tell me, who is leading JRPGs this gen? Atlus? They haven't done anything this gen. Level-5? Please. WKC wants to be Final Fantasy XII, but it failed. Tri-Ace? Nope. Star Ocean IV is awful and so is Infinite Undiscovery.

"Their usually very small companies, with limited budgets, and have a very small niche of gamers that buy their games. They can't afford to do something uber radical and piss off their small amount of fans."

Atlus says hello. They made Persona 3 & 4 last gen, and it pissed off some of their long-time fans due to it being more light-hearted. However, those games became Atlus' best selling games.