Valve: Xbox Live 'such a train wreck'

CVG: We failed assuming MS would change online service, says Newell

[lokiroo420]

Hahahaha, the tides have turned my friends, the tides have turned.

[OSU_Gamer]

Now all of a sudden his word is gospel?

Whether or not you hate XBL...a few months ago anything Newell said about the PS3 was laughed at.

Edit:
Where are all those same fat jokes we heard nonstop? Interesting, there are none.

[Montrealien]

exactly.

The tides have not turned, many N4G users are just coat turners. They should be ashamed of being so weak. hehe

[pixelsword]

@ OSU_Gamer:

Although I never considered his word gospel, I didn't see the need to consistently hammer this guy; but if something is said that is totally bogus you can't help but to call it out every once in a while.

[WhittO]

Its true he needs to stfu, always in the media for the wrong reasons.

It's clear if he doesn't get something the way he wants he spits his dummy out.

[Parapraxis]

Sorry Montrealien, but the way I conduct myself is this:
If somebody is being a dick, I treat them like they are dicks.
If somebody stops being a dick, I stop treating them like dicks.

I know it's hard for somebody with a low level of maturity to comprehend but encouraging people to NOT be dicks by giving them hell and then treating them well when they stop actually works. And both parties in most cases understand why those negative actions are being taken in the first place.

The only people being weak are those too stubborn to reconcile their differences.

EDIT:
Nope OSU_Gamer, the difference between his statements towards the PS3 in general a few years back and one specific aspect of the 360 is VERY clear.

He lambasted and slammed the PS3 without actually making an effort to develop for it, and then let a 3rd party poorly port his game. He was making statements about PS3 that weren't based as much on facts but rather generalized perception and beliefs.

What he is saying about Live (one aspect of the 360 which he still generally amicable towards) is not based on opinion, it's based on FACT, ones which have been stated by other devs previously.

comprende?

Apparently Montrealien no comprende as he had absolutely nothing to counter what I actually said. Epic fail bud.

[OSU_Gamer]

Parapraxis

The problem is, you say he is not a dick, but its obviously because he isn't throwing out smack to your favorite console anymore.

Edit at parapraxis:

So anything he said before about PS3 were all untrue just because he never devolped for it? Even though that makes no sense, lets say you are right. If that is the case you look like the fool because you easily turnaround and back the same guy who according to you, lied and was a dick.

You can spin it how you want...but your support of Gabe Newell and the support of Gabe Newell by other N4G users now that he is developing for the PS3 is pretty convenient..don't you think?

[Trroy]

Why don't you make some jokes, OSU_Gamer, rather than complaining? Why does it have to be someone else?

[JeffGUNZ]

Your logic is terrible.

Hitler committed genocide to countless numbers of innocent Jewish people. So, under your belief, if he stopped killing innocent Jewish people you would think he is an ok guy? Sure this is an extreme comparison, but I make it extreme so you get the point. You complained that all his statements about the PS3 were untrue due to his lack of experience developing on the PS3. So, essentially, you are classifying him as a liar. Now, all of the sudden, he makes a statement against the 360 and you take his word for it and back him up. Really shows a lot about your character to run behind someone you acknowledged to be a liar as soon as he shares a similiar opinion of yours.

Stop attacking Montrealien, you look pathetic attempting to attack someone on a video game website.

Grow up.

[Why o why]

If we say xbl is a closed network....

we're fanboys.

If a dev says it.....

he's a d(ck.

If we call him fat.....

we're immature.

If we agree with wat he says.....

we're turncoats.

fcuk me....we cant win so here's my pop at it

This dude is still overweight but i agree with what he's saying.....hows that and what do you think...do you guys have an opinion on xbl's restrictiveness or is it all about the fanboys again...¬_¬

[nycredude]

OSU

So people aren't allowed to have a change of heart now, change the mind? I use to hate broccoli when I was a kid, do I have to hate it forever? Come on now people grow up. Fact is Gabe said some really nasty things about the Ps3 long time ago but he pretty much apologized on stage so people forgive and forget. It's a concept you guys should try sometimes.

BTW I hope Sony doesn't send Gabe a Move kit. He might eat the controller thinking it's an ice cream cone! Ta dah!!! I know pathetic...

jeffgunz

You should be banned from ever commenting on any forum ever again for using such a tasteless and utterly ridiculous analogy, and also on a Jewish Holiday.

How the fuck do you figure Gabe talking shit about Ps3 and then apologizing can be compared to Hitler murdering Millions of people?!! You get the dumbest comment of the year award. Trophy and achievement unlocked.

[UnwanteDreamz]

Wow talk about drama. How old are you kids

I love how you guys take everything kids on the internet say seriously and then use their words to judge the whole fanbase.

Why not save the comments from fanboys so that you can call them out? I mean it seem that important to you. You sound like bickering kids. Why do you care so much?

Pathetic.

@JEFFGUNZ

Do yourself a favor look up "straw man fallacy " so that you don't continue t look ignorant. Here this cartoon should help.
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[Consoldtobots]

I guess MS must have cutback on his monthly supply of cheesecake.

there, you happy now?

all jokes aside I hope those of us who have been calling out MSs greedy business tactics and lack of support for moving the industry forward stop getting de-bubbled and trolled when WE SPEAK THE TRUTH.

[Montoya]

WhyOWhy Wins.

[insomnium]

OMG nycredude. Great comment!

[goldensfree]

"Montrealien no comprende as he had absolutely nothing to counter what I actually said. Epic fail"

well said bubs to ya

Mont feel the burn lol

[Denethor_II]

The comments about the PS3 were indeed laughable because they were premature, unfounded and proved to be untrue. Now on the other hand we have him voicing his concerns on how Live is a very closed and expensive service to work for.
Montrealien, I can see your trying to appear rational and unbiased, nice try;)

[Karum]

That's a shockingly bad comparison, you did say it was extreme but that isn't even the point. It's just not the same at all.

There's a big difference between being wrong and acting a certain way, acknowledging you were wrong and not acting that way and committing f***ing genocide and trying to say "I'm Sorry" to gain forgiveness.

Sorry, just a terrible, terrible comparison regardless of acknowledging the extremity of it all.

[ForROME]

Indeed, when valve said something before, it was dismissed now that its in favor of PS3 people eat it up, make up your mind children

I still think valve is arrogant no matter what system they chose, after half life 3 I think they are done as being a elite company

[mugoldeneagle03]

I was one of the people who disliked Gabe, as most people did. He was anti-Sony for no reason and acted so Ignorant whenever the discussion came up.

But guess what, Sony talked him into developing for the PS3, he saw the consoles power, *admitted he was in the wrong* and now he's bringing us the games we want. Why shouldn't PS3 owners be happy?

It's the same as the media when they bashed the PS3 at launch non stop. No games, PSN is bland, etc. Now here we are 4 years later and guess which console is leading the charge? And guess what console game sites rarely talk shit about anymore.

Are we not allowed to accept an apology? This is 4th grade where if something goes wrong we hate them forever?

[scott182]

Who says we have any respect for Gabe, or take what he says seriously???

I just think it's funny that he is attacking the idiots that defended him for so long! This is great.

OSU has an amazing team this year.

[InactiveUser]

@lokiroo
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[badz149]

up until E3 this year he spouted offensive words towards Sony and sometime PS3 gamer in general but now after that 1 time being invited personally on stage by Jack he's totally changing side? I know that he's 1st and foremost develop for PC but he seemed like preferring the 360 with L4D and stuff. so why would he start bashing M$ now? I simply can't understand. it's not like his next game is going PS3/PC only, right?

[Chubear]

Now you see what we have been telling you for years when Gabe kept doggin the PS3 and PSN.

We told you he was just BSing and doing MS bidding. Now he doesn't have to do that any more he's singing a new tune. It's repulsive how gabe could be like this but hey it's business but the bottom line is, when we kept telling you he's BSing you all laughed and mocked... Pay back is such a B*tch uh?

Just wait 'till Valve (not a company they acquired) make a PS3 exclusive, just wait till L4D gets annouced for the PS3 and it will be considered not a big deal but "SE annoucing FF13 multiplat in NA & EU only is HUGE!!!!!!" :/

[Bathyj]

Up till now Gabe has been saying the sky was green, and we all called him a liar.

Now he says the sky is blue and we're inclined to agree.

Why are you'se so suprised?

He changed his mind, we changed our opinions on his statements.

That doesn make anyone a turncoat. He means he stopped talking sh*t and now people listen to him.

[WildArmed]

lol
Honestly, I haven't forgiven Gabe's ignorance before.
But it's a start-- meaning I'm willing to give him a chance to set things right. But he has to earn it.

And for the record, he isn't making any fans by bashing MS now.

If you cut someone's arm off, and then go cut off his competitor's arm to make the first person happy... you obviously didn't think this through.
He is pissing off both sides, playing a dangerous game there!

PS:
Portal 2 PLEASE :)

[movements]

Can't believe me ears. Is Gabe Newell actually saying this? Left 4 Dead PS3's confirmed, then.

[Gabe EatsWell]

PS3 fans, please wait for E3 2011 for the official announcement. Yours truly. :)

[StanLee]

Sadly Gabe is going to run into the same problems with PSN. Valve has seen how the console community has grown and wants a piece of it and while PSN is more open, Sony still, like Microsoft wants to control the pipeline of content and be the conduit for it. Steam suite on PSN wont work either.

[Persistantthug]

But even treacherous turncoats can speak truth, I guess.

lol

[Persistantthug]

Both EA and Konami are allowed to run their own servers and even sell items via their own network.

If said developer can prove they can carry the infrastructure responsibly, Sony will grant the latitude to do so.

Valve is such a developer, and that's why a version of STEAM is going to the PS3, and why I'm expecting to play side by side with PC gamers.

Its gonna be fun. :)

[chazjamie]

valve has a strange effect on ps3 fans. this is the pc field, totally different story (games).

but hey, i bet you the people who owned a ps2 never even heard of steam. i am glad you guys think gabe is part of the sony team. what an asset to have, but did you even care about valve and their accomplishments before they started showing 360 love. no (i assume). i dont really care about what they have to say about live or psn, as long as they can produce games without complaining (like most developers), then i am cool with them.

every time gabe speaks, its usually a comment that sounds one sided. he knows what his doing. but why would he say such shit? oh yes because he can. he can create fanboy wars.

[ryuzu]

I see you've got a lot of opinions about PS2 owners there.

Gamers game wherever the games are.... Save the PS2 hate for an appropriate thread...

r.

[poopface1]

Half life 1 is my favorite game. But I play all of valves games on my PC.

But its funny to see the huge shift here, now people respect valve. Whic I think is good as they are one of my favorite devs, and they made my favorite game.

Still all gabe is doing is talking. I havent seen them produce anything for my PS3 or 360 that would make me play one of their games on the consoles instead of my 5 year old PC. Part of that is for dedicated servers, which the clan im in has.

I think portal with move would be them actually doing something using consoles. Splitscreen in=s another thing I think they should keep doing for consoles.

[Lich120]

Lets also point out that Gabe != Valve. There is much more to any one company than a single person. Valve is great (in my opinion), Gabe is kinda a loud mouth but Im sure hes great at what he does.

[MegaMohsi]

Because they have the OPTION to pay for PSN+, they still get all the online features for FREE, most importantly being online play and free downloads of title updates and DLC that is free.

[Cueil]

That doesn't change the fact that PSN is still the lesser service and that Valve wouldn't put their stuff on the service until they could use their own service

[Persistantthug]

Pass the pepper please.

LOL

[MegaMohsi]

and your point? The FACT is it's still coming to PSN and it will be free as opposed to XBL where you'll be paying $60 a year for the same content.

[jessupj]

You're fulling yourself if you think PSN is a lesser server. I have one word for you... dedicated servers. It doesn't matter how many feature XBL gets it's always going to be an inferior service as long as it barely has any dedicated servers. Only 360 fanboys that are uneducated about the benifits of dedicated servers would disagree.

[raWfodog]

-double post-

[Jazz4108]

The double chin I mean talk is amusing but the way I see it he is pissing off all the people he hopes to sell too. Ps3 people should hate him for everything he said about the ps3 in the past and now he's talking smack about the 360. How about no one buy his games unless you support thee pc. What a jerk and just says what will make him popular at the time and feed his family.

[LiquifiedArt]

His first comments were unfounded and simply from a "lower userbase, hard to program for" point of view.

but...

This is different. He has never liked XBL. M$ has constantly been a thorn in the side of the PC devs who like to reward their userbase with updates and free content, while psn is more open to the idea.

Just look at the games on both platforms.

Seeing a game like PJ:EDEN, Heavy Rain, PJ:Monsters, Africa etc... Heck, look at Demon Souls. Sony was like "We dont think this is gonna do well !!", but they didnt stop anything, instead they green lit it and BOOM underground success story.

Those just don't happen on XBox. Sony has the games and the desire to support creative freedoms.

[gamingdroid]

I remember when MW2 came out and everyone and their mother on this site complained it was buggy and should have been patched before release. Then I read this here:

"It's like a bug. If you fix a bug before it ever ships, it's pretty cheap. If you ship it and then fix it, it's really expensive. Those ones are really bad."

All of a sudden, it is now bad to expect your software developers to make as much of a bug free software as possible and encourage perpetual patching like on PC. Go figure!

[FACTUAL evidence]

XBL is unstable. Laggy sub-par online service which you pay 60$ a year. I still don't see what makes XBL better than PSN. PSN started to get demos and games before XBL, and it's a paid service. Overrated at that.

XBL was probably the pinnacle of online gaming about a year and a half ago. Truley it isn't nothing better than PSN/STEAM. Can someone please tell me 5 things that XBL is worth 60$ for besides playing online, because that's the only service that charges to play online.

Fanboys will continue to justify XBL like it's 2008. In reality it's not superior. Well all know that it's over priced, and the only reason fanboys say it's superior is because XGC, that's PDU(pretty dam useless). Fanboys will continue to support MS, and say the service is superior. They all know the only thing making it seem "ok" is XGC, which most ps3 user won't use anyway.

Don't go saying no one has mics, simply not true. It's not 08 anymore, netflix doesn't make a superior online service.

[crzyjackbauer]

Yet you still pay $50 for PSN+ when online is free whats your point?

[Redgehammer]

its worth it because I enjoy it.
its worth it because i don't like Sony products
its worth it because I will be getting 4 Gold Memberships for 99 for my sons and I.
its worth it because MS actually tries to deal with cheaters, glitchers.
its worth it because it is integral to the playtime I have with my sons.

Value is a subjective argument. What one person may find valuable, someone else may deem as worthless, and that's just the way it is.

when I was a teen we would argue over the Comodore versus Tandy on the local BBS's, and its funny to me 26 years later that the same vociferous arguments, just with different products, are still ongoing.

[insomnium]

*facepalm*

[IneedWeed]

@crzyjackbauer and Yet you still pay $60 for XBL Gold when online is free, what's your point? O wait M$ forces you to pay $60 for XBL or else you can't play online, which is some games strongest part.

[frelyler]

yeah if you so choose, otherwise I still get demos and pay nothing, some people really are not smart.

[DigitalAnalog]

PS3 being the former and the latter for the 360.

-End statement

[LiquifiedArt]

Bubbles+ well said.

[r1sh12]

@lokiroo420..
"the tides have turned"
I bet your were up in arms when he said the ps3 was crap.
This is him just jumping 'ships', so show his loyalty to the other side.
To be fair, ive seen many games get regular fix updates.
Its only expensive to do the fixes after release because they have to spend time looking over the code etc...
Its time consuming, so paying the programmers to do that is costly.
Rather than paying the programmers to create DLC etc...

[timmyrulz]

Nice Twist on the headline - Who ever submitted the article needs to work for a national newspaper
He states that his companies approach to Live was a train wreck, not xbox live

[8thnightvolley]

this fat dude is really just an asslicker... i bet u if ms was to do something he will turn around and chat shyt bout the ps3 in an instant... what a loco

[chazjamie]

he starts wars way too easily. it is suspicious. just wish it would stop.

his the dad, sony and ms are his kids. i bet you, if nintendo payed him, nintendo would end up being his favourite kid. and he would have no shame to admit how much the other kids suck.

but you see nintendo dont need valve, and the ps3 needs them? i wonder why sony decided to invest in valve? i bet you something besides steam is going down.

[bustamove]

I can't believe Valve said that.

No, wait, I can. xD

[Bloodyghost]

Until Gabe goes on about the PS3 next year. Just watch...all he caters to is the PC. You buy a Valve game, it has to be the PC version or you pay for DLC thats free.

[BannedForNineYears]

Valve > PSN > XBL.
>:[
PSHHHHHHHHHHHH, paying for online......That's unacceptable.

[Redgehammer]

why is it unacceptable?

[BannedForNineYears]

Why?! WHY?!?!?!
Because paying for your internet ANDDDDDDDDDDD to play online is retarded!!!!!

It's like buying bread and ham, and then having to pay more to prepare a sandwich!!!!!!

[BloodyNapkin]

You are paying for features, not just for online service.

"It's like buying bread and ham, and then having to pay more to prepare a sandwich!!!!!! "

Kinda close

It's like getting the bread and ham for free, then buying the topping's. Instead of being stuck with just the bread and ham. People and stupid analogy's crack me up. Anything to help fit their argument.

[BannedForNineYears]

360s are free? Cool! I didn't know that.

[Why o why]

we're paying to play the online component of the games we've already paid for...Eff the bells and whistles the fundamental thing is online play

or

we cannot play the online component of the game we've paid for unless we pay MS for xbl

[Redgehammer]

thanks for the answers to my query, even if i disagree.
From1 983 until 2007 I used to play PC games only, and even though it was "free" it was filled with all the elements that make online gaming suck IE: cheater, hackers, glitchers, griefers, and just down right asshats. In my experience MS does a good job of policing its service so those of us interested in fair play, have a better chance of attaining that goal. When I purchased my 360, I had zero intentions of trying out XBL, but there was a free trial in the box so I figured what the hell. Three years later I have not regretted one cent I have spent on my memberships (I can't say that about a few XBLA games). Basicaly , the gaming experience I loved on the PC was streamlined, organized, and handed to me in a nice little package. I will always hold PC gaming special, but XBL is my preferred method of online gaming, and when I try to go back and play my old favs, I am left wanting.
I used to think gaming should be free, but I also looked at my internet connection as a entry fee to the data buffet that exists in cyberspace. Warez, appz, crackz, 0-day and the like were at my fingertips and I drank from the fountain which was FTP until I felt like a glutton; drunk on copyright violations, and tingling with that excitement that only comes from doing something you shouldn't be doing. However, things changed, and I realized; just because you pay for a connection to the internet, does not mean that you have carte blanche to whatever you want because you pay for a subscription to the net. The bottom line is your ISP is providing a service and is getting paid for it, as is MS, if you don't want the service do not pay for it, it really is that simple.

Remember, millions of people play WOW and that has a monthly fee to play online. Should all WOW players be considered idiots or stupid because they choose to pay to play a game that has fees not included in their monthly internet bill?

[IneedWeed]

@ Redgehammer how is forcing us to pay for XBL in order to use a games' free feature acceptable? Wow people who support XBL is retarded. If it had silver being able to play online MP for free and Gold service for the extra features, then that would be OK. Imagine if steam sold us games for full price and it forces us to pay $60 a month in order to play those games online. Even poker sites don't charge us to play poker online.

[Redgehammer]

@IneedWeed
If someone forced you to buy an xbox 360 and then subsequently intimidated you into paying for XBL, then maybe thats a matter for the police. To say that someone is retarded for liking something you don't shows to me that maybe you have smoked some super dank, and you can't tell the difference between a personal preference, and a mental handicap.

[number47]

http://www.pcgamer.com/2010...

Its not even about Xbox Live. The question was asked about updating games/patches over the service. And how Valve assumed it would be more flexible. Its prefaced with a comment about how fixing a bug before it ships is more preferable to fixing one that gets to customers.

"Erik Johnson: Favourite conversation of ours! PS3, so far. The way we’ve dealt with those customers so far, and the product that they have, and the lack of updates on the 360 for TF2 is also a total failure. Those are the ones that sting the worst because…

Doug Lombardi: There’s actual ramifications.

Erik Johnson: Because it got all the way through to customers. It’s like a bug. If you fix a bug before it ever ships, it’s pretty cheap. If you ship it and then fix it, it’s really expensive. Those ones are really bad.

Gabe Newell: That’s why we’re really happy with the current situation with the PS3… We’re solving it now in a way that is going to work for our customers, rather than assuming something is going to emerge later that will allow us to fix this.

PC Gamer: Was the mistake on the Xbox side to think that Microsoft would let you update it more often?

Gabe Newell: We thought that there would be something that would emerge, because we figured it was a sort of untenable… “Oh yeah, we understand that these are the rules now, but it’s such a train wreck that something will have to change.”"

CVG fails at everything. They really do just troll for hits.

I dislike valve/gabes views on the PS3 and wont support their products because of it. Its a slap in the face to the consumer. But, this article is out of context. Totally..

they are off-put by the lack of updates they can do for their titles.

[BloodyNapkin]

The only tides that have turned is from the people that was making fun of Newell and swearing they would never buy nothing from Valve again. But for some reason these Hypocrites love Gabe. 90% of this site is nothing but POS. But really i could give 2 rats @sses what Valve does on any platform, cause i never buy anything they put out anyways.

[Leathersoup]

Actually the tides haven't changed for me at all. I've supported Gabe Newell when he talked shit about the PS3 and I'll support him now that he's talking shit about the 360. He's not an idiot. When it comes to supporting games and their customers, Valve knows how to do it. It's Sony and Xbox that need to wise up. Fortunately Sony did. Now it's just Microsoft's turn to eat some crow.

[solar]

an open platform is the best for gamers. glad to see Sony realized what we have enjoyed for years from Valve and many other developers on the PC.

[Leathersoup]

Exactly. My PC is still pretty much my system of choice... and I have a PS3 and a 360 as well.

[Lifendz]

Sensing a lot of you didn't read the article. Gabe isn't saying XBL is crap; he's saying that all the stipulations and restrictions really surprised Valve. They expected to be able to provide free content for customers (see Epic Games as well) and ran into MS arbitrary policies and restrictions. The closed nature of Live that was heralded as it's greatest strength is now a detriment as companies are seeing that PSN's open nature also allows them to provide support and run servers without the over-restrictive nature of Live.

Amazing how things always repeat. I think Sony was extremely cocky following the success of PS2 and after "struggling" (allegedly) with the PS3 early on, the company is much more humble and pro-developer. MS is apparantly in that cocky stage after enjoying success with 360 in the U.S.

Have a feeling that multi-console owners are really going to question paying that XBL fee once Steam support is on PSN.

[wsoutlaw87]

man he just cant help but bit** about something

[saint_john_paul_ii]

wow... wtf is up with valve with their change of heart? did sony opened Valve's eyes or did Microsoft pissed Valve off???

It would be funny if Valve revives the now defunct "black box" for PS3 owners as a way of apologizing for the crap that was the "orange box"...

[xCaptainAmazing]

Valve is smart, and they've found that an effective way of getting what they want is to criticize other platforms. PSN is pretty good and is free, but Valve constantly insulted the platform for being CLOSED, and had nothing but praise for the "more open" Xbox Live "platform." They criticized Sony for years, and were eventually able to back them into a corner and forced their hand at being the first console to support Steam. Now that Valve has what they want, they have turned against their former ally to back them into the other corner, hoping they will also succumb to the insults and launch Steam on their platform.

Valve aims to be the premier digital distribution service for games, and they will do whatever they have to to insure their global success. Microsoft (thus far) isn't buying into any of their monopoly crap. So no, the tides have not turned. If Sony wants to keep PSN in their control, they're going to have to outline some rules for the Valve guys, otherwise what we are playing will soon be called PlayStation Steam Network. I'm not even joking, and if you don't believe Valve has the industry respect to at least make the above a POSSIBILITY, then you're mistaken.

[Shepherd 214]

Im pretty sure most of you were Valve haters a few months ago, ripe with fat jokes and such.

[Sarcasm]

Why o Why Wins... Babality...

[mastiffchild]

I'm a massive Valve fan on PC but have always hated their outbursts on the console scene and see no reason to chhange that opinion jusxt cos they seem to be backing POS3 these days rather than 360.

I have also been very critical of the state of ALL their console ports. I've said that they don't get as close to the PC versions of their games as any of the other PC heavy devs around. Thing is I can understand them being annoyed if some of this has been down to restrictions put on them by MS(if, for example, the lack of mods being allowed to be shipped in to L4D etc is down to MS then that IS a sad thing as it's what keeps the game good and fresh on PC)but if they knew the situation pre release why keep doing it Surely they needed to test more before release or they knew they would let customers down, no Moaning about it now seems just as pointless as their unprofessional hating towards the PS3/PSN community ion the past.

I can see that this kind of issue would annoy them because of the way they're used to working on Steam and PC but, if so, why say so now and look as bitter as they once did about Sony? They knew the rules when they priced their 360 ports, didn't they? Yes, so they should either have said something at the time, priced more accordingly or made damn sure the game's shipped with fewer issues and more on disc content. Say they wished they could put out more for free by ball means but the bashing is still not professional in tone and is as bad as it ever was about Sony-and this is coming from me- someone who has also always said paying MS to play online as well as an ISP was a joke and beyond cheeky!

So , while I have some sympathy with Valve if they feel hamstrung by not being allowed to ship over community made mods or be allowed more free patched content etc they still haven't conducted themselves as respectfully as some of their competitors on consoles. Plus, GC is what REALLY kills TF2 on Live-which was about the last reason I had, as a game, to shell out for Live ironically-before finally having enough myself last year. There's a time and a place to say the things Valve have and they haven't chosen the correct one yet this generation, imho, and this is no different. Nothing's EVER their fault and as such a great, creative force with so many massive fans and influence I think they really should behave better and take responsibility for the state of their console ports AND the choices THEY made with them and where they released rather than blame either MS or Sony when they already knew the rules of Live etc.

If MS stand in the way of content like what Sony allowed with Epic's UT3 then, yeah, that's shitty but Valve shouldn't cry about it now after taking their money and running away from providing 360 gamers with a similar experience to their PC gamers. Gabe's not suddenly a saint for changing loyalties-just looks a bit more of an EA pawn because of the massive turnaround even if it's not true. This stuff should have been thrashed out before games shipped-with MS concerning Live updates/etc AND not one sidedly and in public either. If PS3 gamers are only gonna be getting what we have had on 360 they shouldn't be too excited either as compared to PC their console output has been much weaker than it should have been so far.

I LOVE Valve, their games and their PC output but hate ALL the console moaning they do.

[vhero]

Its funny all the 360 fanboys are turning on him after defending him saying he's a great dev and his slating of the ps3 was justified, now your agreeing with what ps3 supporters said ages ago now he has finally given up with your beloved 360. Honestly you would backstab your own mothers if you had the chance... It's a console for crying out loud.. We all know how strict MS are with XBL and to be fair it has its pros but of course it has its cons. Valve isn't the first company to complain about XBL yet support MS to the hilt EPIC are also guilty of this when they released UTIII for PS3 and 360 complaining about XBL and lack of mod support thanks to MS. Yet they still won't bring Gears to PS3. Sure its probably money motivated but my point is still there.

Devs moan and moan but while MS is signing the pay cheques they really can't and won't do anything about it.

[IcarusOne]

Yeah it's annoying, but I got an email from MS with a link that locks my gold membership in at $40/year for next two years. A $10 discount. Don't know why. But I guess not everyone was extended this offer.

[ActionBastard]

Looks like the honeymoon is ovah!

[Montrealien]

looks more like Gabe Newel is laughing at how easily he can change peoples opinions all while he sells games on all platforms. the real joke is on the fanboys here imho.

[ActionBastard]

No, it actually looks like Gabe is saying the restrictions in place by MS hamper the experience Valve tries to deliver to its customers. There will always be fanboys pointing and laughing (this is no different), but Valve's stance isn't a bad one imho. They are saying the same things gamers have been saying since all the free packs for L4D were hitting PC and charged for on Live.

[yewles1]

*facepalm* Another one, Kettle. Right here.

[insomnium]

Nycredude said it best up there. Here --> "Fact is Gabe said some really nasty things about the Ps3 long time ago but he pretty much apologized on stage so people forgive and forget. It's a concept you guys should try sometimes. "

Does this go way over your head? Is the joke on who now?

[xCaptainAmazing]

I know, nobody else is smart enough to see what's happening here. It's all smoke and mirrors to establish Steam dominance, and Microsoft knows this. The only problem is that Valve has enough pull to possibly get what they want.

[amiga-man]

His point playing, online is free on psn anyone who wants psn+ is up to them, i choose not to. if xbox users want to play online what choice do they have?

[xCaptainAmazing]

I suggest you read more carefully. Reading the literal meaning of something is rarely the actual meaning. In other words, your post is not accurate, this is not what Gabe's point is.

[amiga-man]

My comment was aimed at Omega, who has had his comment deleted,sorry for confusion.

[GarandShooter]

@ Captain

You only say that because you failed to read beyond the literal meaning of amiga's post. :P

[Leafhopper]

How you trusted them.

[Gabe EatsWell]

and look how I betrayed them. =))

[HeroXIV]

Bring us L4D 1 & 2 on the same disc Gabe! Please? :)

[newhumanbreed]

That would never happen. PC owners are still crying that they paid for L4D1 with promises of future updates. A lot of them didn't buy L4D2 for that reason. If VALVe were to release both of them on one disc for PS3, they will get a lot of hate from their PC community.

[mastiffchild]

Yet the PC community was STILL treated WAY better than the 360 one over the L4D debacle. Cheaper games, better performance, mods, more options Why was the 360 version twice the price again and why on Earth would PS3 gamers want any L4D title bereft of the mods which
keep a limited game alive and fresh anyway?

Both L4D games were poor value on Live/360 and I doubt the PC community would have a leg to stand on if Valve wanted to release the same limited versions on one disc for PS3-it still wouldn't be worth the same as ONE of them off Steam, imho, would it? Valve have shown they love their PC fanbase a lot in the past even if we fall out sometimes but compared to how they treat console gamers there's NOTHING to moan about. Console gamers, of either preference, would be well advised to taker Valve outbursts with heaps of salt.

[NYC_Gamer]

its about time devs wake up to MS and their shady xbl policy

[Natsu X FairyTail]

Half Life 3 PC and PS3 CONFIRMED!!!!

edit@baka: I totaly forgot about the Episodes -__-. they need to bring the 3d already.

[Baka-akaB]

more like episode 3 on ps3/pc/360 , and Half life 3 pc and whatever is left as console next gen

[thief]

I am just relieved that HL3 and Portal 2 will be on PS3 – just one year back I was pretty sure they were going to make it XBOX-exclusive and I wouldn’t be able to play it, as my 360 will be sold off as soon as I am done with Mass Effect 2 (I know it’s coming to PS3, but couldn’t wait till 2011 to play this beauty)

[Montrealien]

Reminds me of Half life 2, it was only on Xbox and PC until the orange box, 2 years later.

It would be funny if this gen the PS3 being the more powerful console this gen, it will end up with Half life 3 at the end of this generation. Then 2 years later all the next gen consoles will have a Blue Box which will have Counterstrike 2, a new awesome student source mod and Half life 3. lol

Valve is playing with you guys, they are just laughing at all of this and selling their games on what ever console/platform they can sell them on.

[jack_burt0n]

no mate ur delusional, he has seen whats been happening and responded.

[Parapraxis]

Montrealien, you are delusional and a little bit obsessed.
Opinions can change kiddo. You need to grow up.

[Why o why]

we cannot possibly change our minds because we are perfect and perfect people NEVER change their minds. It seems him saying this is pissing off a few commenters here on n4g....ps3 fans are being attacked for agreeing with what he's saying even though we've been saying the same thing for years... Ask Montrealien or OSU why the dlc was free on pc but charged for on xbl and you'll see some type of defense better than mayweathers. Ask them whey there were no mods on unreal tournament and you'll here something about ps3 fans. These guys get so caught up in what we say and do sometimes that they never see the point....just deflect and defend if it comes to something they hold dear. It goes both ways so dont get me wrong but here in this thread is an example of n4g members being ignorant to the facts by focusing on irrelevant things

[Consoldtobots]

this is the same kid that threw a hissy fit when I called him out on his Ps3 bashing (which he has turned into stealth trolling) and then blocked me from responding to his PM's.

ignore him.

[Motorola]

Oh snap....lol

[HeroXIV]

LMAO I knew this from the start... I think Gabe was completely retarded calling the PS3 the CLOSED platform... it's not remotely, well it may be for indie developers but for someone as big as Valve, EA, Activision... "do what you want" is Sony's philosophy.

[jack_burt0n]

hold on the indie pledge sony made saying they would cover all the development costs, if you bring a title to PSN is pretty good.

[jack_burt0n]

great read, good times!

[Jazz4108]

I guess its ok tsohat he said the ps3 was total crap and not worth his time and would never sell. He really never apoligized for those comments but as long as he talks bad about the xbox he's just fine. Too bad though because a lot of his comments regarding the install machine were spot on.

[thief]

http://uk.videogames.games....

No wonder they charge for Live. This doesnt come free - You need to pay to enjoy the "superior" service

[Syaz1]

freedom of speech is a double-edged sword. good thing gabe knows humility as well.

[divideby0]

ok....where are all the Valve supporters now, that Gabe is calling out one of the biggest problems with Live...besides paying for it like I have since day one of live...

not anymo when my sub runs out...

and Gabe's simplistic approach with these consoles is to be a FRONT runner...what a douche... picks the one thats doing best at the time of his pic.

PS3 sucks, now PS3 is good
Live is great, now Live bashing begins

[OSU_Gamer]

welcome to N4G

[divideby0]

nah..its all Gabe.... being a phony front runner

he will always diss consoles, he is PC, which is fair, but we see where PC gaming is now, taking a back seat to the mass appeal of consoles

[Zinc]

@divideby0 - The only reason developers/publishers want to put their games on consoles, is because the more platforms, the more money. However, if they could, they would only release them on an open platform like the PC, because then they don't have to pay the hardware company or deal with their restrictions. It's that simple. It's all about money, not that they like doing it.

[UP]

Companies are restricted to the amount of free content they can give away on XBL????

That is the biggest amount of BS I have ever heard in my life. Why does Microsoft do this if companies want to release free content let them release free content.

[jack_burt0n]

There are actually, totally valid, grounded in reality reasons to seriously doubt the integrity of Microsoft.

To think thats a newsflash to certain people is also worrying.

@up
ok mate, did not aim that @ you :) was a general statement. Its also a literal reason why LBP and Mod nation couldn't happen on live.

[UP]

I honestly did not even know Microsoft limited free content released by companies. I thought that they just limited how large the content is. I am a educated gamer and know a vast majority of the game industry and even I did not know that.

[Consoldtobots]

anyone that thinks MS didn't take the 1billion+ RROD kick right in the cojones is insane and delusional. They're still trying to recover what they lost on XB1 and RROD just made it that much worse.

[BDSE]

I feel faint.

[theonlylolking]

What happened to valve? I thought they where pS3 haters.

[Montrealien]

they just want to prove they can turn the haters into believers with a few words and surprise showings at conferences. Their main goal is to sell games, they really don`t care where or how they sell them.

[jack_burt0n]

ur denial is actually scary, do you know they have setup a joint office inside valve HQ where the ICE team from sony can setup shop to work on the fundamentals of the new source cell engine and intergrating steamworks.

So the most powerful game technology team around, has been welcomed at valve LOL.

[xCaptainAmazing]

buddy, you have no clue. Montrealien has the nail on the head. The fact that you can't see what's happening here has me severely questioning your (lack of) intelligence. By your logic, you would have to believe the PS3 sucked, JUST because Gabe said so for years. Wrap your head around what's happening here and then come back.

Gabe loved Xbox/Live because it was more open (in his words) than the PS3/N, now he has reversed rolls to get what he wants. Xbox Live is great. The money argument is always there of course, but it doesn't change the fact that as a core service with features, it does, and always has, delivered. Gabe/Valve just wants to stretch their reach. I don't think it's right, but they certainly have the popularity to do so.

[Parapraxis]

Wow...very forward and blunt comments from Newell.
It seems that the valve team has become overly frustrated with MS' ridiculous constraints on Live.

Maybe this was one of the deciding factors for Valve to start working with Sony.
I'd honestly like to see just how good Valve could make games on PS3, they could likely make the PS3 versions as feature-enriched as their PC counterparts.

[logikil]

Wow MS, come on now. I've been inclined to buy multiplatform titles on the 360 because of the friends list and uniformity of Live, but I guarantee you that if developers such as Valve start providing more on the PS3 this will change. Portal 2 will be a PS3 purchase because I know that Valve will support the game fully through Steam. Half-Life 3 will also end up as a PS3 purchase. Rethink this MS because I won't be the last one that makes this decision.

[karlowma]

Humble pie is his favorite.

[Calm Down Sunshine]

Gabe..you...you were a spy all along...

[PimpHandHappy]

i never knew you had to pay for a update on the 360 if your a dev!!!! WOW i guess MS loves to milk everyone when it comes to XBL

[divideby0]

yea...look how transparent MS is....frigging greedy.. preying on the noobs

raise price of Live...just before Kinet. comes out....
they are targeting the non hardcore gamers and many will just pony up the 60 bucks for Live, since they are new and dont know any better.
after all buying Kin with such a trash lineup of shovel ware (Motion is in the same boat), is like MS fishing in a barrel

[xCaptainAmazing]

Microsoft doesn't charge for hosting content on Xbox Live though, that's part of what we (the users of Live) pay for. Sony charges these fees to the developer. It's Apples and oranges, but Microsoft focusses on giving devs what they want, while Sony focusses more on the consumer end.

[pixelsword]

.

[Tapey]

Only a couple weeks until my XBL subscription expires, can't say I'll miss it when it's so inferior to what Steam and PSN provides. If other 360 owners have any sense then they too will vote with their wallets, rather than bending over and taking it like fools.

[StanSmith]

i'm speechless......... Valve have turned on MS in support of Sony!

[wenaldy]

P(l)ay with us!!!!!!!

[militant07]

and now ps3fanboys like VAVLVE and gabe.

hypocritic

[raWfodog]

...I just think its funny that once he was talking shit about PS3 now he's talking shit about 360.

[Biggest]

No. A hypocrite would be one that says "We shall not support Gabe!" while supporting Gabe. In this case it was "We shall not support Gabe because he doesn't support us!" Now that his stance has changed, people have the option to change their stance. Since the reason for not supporting him was his lack of support for them, there is no logical reason to ignore his product anymore. But you stay out there on the attack, little buddy! Keep those fanboys in check. lolu

[Drycell04]

Not all ps3 fans hated Valve and Gabe, yeah he said one of my favorite platforms sucks but that's an opinion, I like CS:S and Portal but I don't really like TF2 but that's my opinion

[Motorola]

I liked Valve before PS3 was out. I dont care what he says they make good PC games.

[lightningsax]

This is perfect. Valve isn't just throwing fanboy comments out there, they're releasing harsh statements in order to negotiate outside of the corporate office. It's something you see more and more in the sports world, and it's sometimes unnecessary and stupid, but since Valve is a company that still delivers the goods, it's warranted and even welcomed. I'm happy to see them think outside the box about negotiations.

Honestly, I couldn't care less which system this was about in this case - if it was toward Wii, DSi, PS3, or PSP, I'd still love it. Valve is a giant in the gaming world, and they'll bring people to your console if you let them. If your console policies aren't open enough to let Valve do their thing, it's time to change your policies - besides, how much has Valve done for the Windows PC gaming world over the years? Even if you just count Half-Life, that was a stunning revolution in FPS design that made people want to upgrade their PC's again.

If companies are bringing the PC gaming world to the console, and console companies benefit, then consoles need to open up a little. Give me a better way for Valve to go in this situation than appealing to its customer base!

[CyberCam]

and a very well written statement, which is also the total truth. I totally agree.

I've been dealing with the entity called M$ since the mid 80's and I've learned over the years that they would suck the life out of you and nickel & dime you to death, to get every dollar out of you. They absolutely have no respect for their clients and partners!

I've seen them almost bankrupt small-medium businesses with the licensing schemes & technical support contracts. Not to mention stealing their partners innovations and competing against them after luring them in to develop for their platform.

[atlys]

Gee, i wonder why ms would limit the amount of free content given away on live? Cause it's in the business of making money, duh! Sure, there ain't no shit like free shit, but ms plays it's cards close to it's vest for a reason. besides live is a closed atmosphere for a reason, if it weren't it wouldn't function. ms is public enemy number 1 with hackers. keeping it closed helps them maintain some measure of control. if they enjoyed the same kinda rampant love that apple or sony gets, then maybe things would be different. personally i hope they find some way to compromise and open things up a little. valve is a great dev and i would hate to not have the same level of support on 360 as on ps3 cause i, like many, do my multiplatform gaming on 360.

[lightningsax]

The free thing you're talking about, regarding Valve's argument, only applies to updates, Atlys. Not free DLC or whatever. Updates. No matter how hard a dev works on their game, there will always be bugs, and good development companies will keep working on those. Also, updates to improve balancing issues happen when you're a great dev company. If they're only allowed one free update to their games, perfectionists like Valve will not be happy. Like in Team Fortress 2, as they mentioned.

Microsoft, like any for-profit, is in the business of making money, sure, but if they don't support their third-party developers, they won't get support for their console from fans of the third-party devs' products. That's when you're in the business of losing money.

[atlys]

they are also talking about content, not just updates. as far as charging money for devs to apply updates, that's an old-school practice ms has always done, and not just with games. if you look at hardware and drivers on pc, ms has a certification process that gives manufacturers digital certificates and signitures and it costs money to obtain these. the purpose of this is to makes sure said hardware/drivers will work seemlessly with ms products. i lot of company's choose not to utilize this program cause it's expensive, but as the user, you take the liability for using an unsigned driver or piece of hardware that hasn't been tested by ms. ultimately you have the choice of using something endorsed by ms or not, with live you don't have that choice. it is unfortinate, but the nature of the beast.

[lightningsax]

Good points, Atlys. The article mentions content (RDR, which is Rockstar), but I didn't see anything about it from Valve.

I know I referenced the good old days, and I understand it's an old-school practice - MS has to pay people to certify those updates the same way that Nintendo has charged companies to get their stuff licensed in order to keep their licensing staff paid, but if a competitor starts offering a better deal, it's time to "change or die," as Chef Ramsay would say. Valve isn't just complaining, they're advocating for change by energizing their consumer base.

Valve isn't acknowledging that it's a new thing so much as they're saying there's an alternative to the way Microsoft is doing it. In a much more closed delivery system like XBL or PSN, big companies should be listening to other big companies if they're going to get everyone on board, even if it involves a policy change. This goes for PSN as well, just not in this particular case.

[atlys]

"Valve isn't acknowledging that it's a new thing so much as they're saying there's an alternative to the way Microsoft is doing it. In a much more closed delivery system like XBL or PSN, big companies should be listening to other big companies if they're going to get everyone on board, even if it involves a policy change. This goes for PSN as well, just not in this particular case."

i couldn't agree more. both xbl and psn could be so much better if a lot of these close-minded policies were abandoned. if they would just focus on what's good for the gaming community and not what's only good for their bottom line, they could provide much better services overall.

[Jazz4108]

I believe I just downloaded the first dlc for allen wake for free. Thanks ms and remedy.

[Lucreto]

"Microsoft has a notoriously closed approach to its online service compared to PSN, with developers allowed as little as one free title update (though there are exceptions) and limitations on the amount of free game content they can release"
It this it true you would think the content would be free on PSN but we still have to pay just because MS wants to charge.

edit: I misread it, it was talking about patched not DLC my mistake.

[Cueil]

apparently some developers have found ways around this like Monday Night Combat can be balanced on the fly

[Kain81]

Steam VS Games4WindowsLive

Both are competitors...

[frelyler]

To see valve's commitment to it's customers in keeping things cheap or free. They give you a product and will ensure it is the best it can be for free, because you already paid for the game, something M$ seems to forget. I don't blame M$, they are a corporation and want to make money, but when it starts to become Nazi like in it's ability to nickel and dime everything then naturally some will be turned off. I bought a 360 and it broke before the recall was in effect. I sold it to a store clerk while he told me what an idiot I was and how bad the PS3 was because that's what I was trading it in towards. All I can say is my PS has not had a problem for 4 years now and I got burned by M$. Because of their actions they lost a customer. I feel sorry for all those that are continuing to get ripped off, especially parents of kids who don't know what is going on. I stick with the PS because their online seems fine to me and they don't rip you off at every corner. If you don't feel ripped of by M$ then something is wrong with you. Thank you valve.

[Jazz4108]

dont put your eggs in one basket as it wolrks both ways. My fat ps3. Ylod a little over a month after purchase so just realize that it could have happened the other way around as there are tons of problems with th fat ps3 and that's why sony dropped it quickly.

[Cherchez La Ghost]

The Dev's have a little more strength to rally and tell MS what they need. Give the comparisons of what the PS3 offers them and they have no choice but to listen or just parish slowly in time for support for the 360.

You cannot keep ignoring people, especially the ones who took part helping you made you who you are today.

[KillerPwned]

Well said bubbles.

[Cherchez La Ghost]

I truly feel that MS has gotten out of touch with Devs and their fanbase some. It's all about their goals without sharing the dream with the consumer. If you want to raise the price of XBL, give some more incentives with it. I still choose XBL over PSN. But I feel Sony give more freedom to Dev's and reward their fanbase more than MS does. That's coming from a XBL fanatic.

[JonnyBigBoss]

Long live PSN and the free world! So long the days of being held captive by a bright green interface and a $60/year fee to access online!

[jjmustoe]

L4D ON PS3

[jjmustoe]

L4D ON PS3

[N4BmpS]

I really don't see why not at this point. They're probably doing God Knows what.

[KillerPwned]

Live can be good to a extent i suppose but PSN is just so much more open and free to developers it makes things so much easier. Certain consumers out there will make live seem like its the best thing in the world when its not both live and psn have their pros and cons.

But to see MS actaully give to Valve and lose a little money...Ah yeah right try someone else valve MS in general is greedy.

I personally take PSN over live any day i rather save money.

[hot111]

Live is like $1 billion+ per year and Gabe is drooling...sorry Gabe no Steam on Live,Nintendo won't allow it either...that leaves Sony but PSN+ is here hmmmm
lol

[djfullshred]

Funny to see the fanboys freak-outs. From what I read here, he is pointing out flaws, not saying they won't sell games on the 360. But I suppose some here didn't even read or comprehend the article, and would rather defend flaws because they are flaws from their favorite brand.

[Lazy_Gamer]

Hopefully this will mean in the future:
- L4D for PS3
- Half Life 3 for PS3
- Massive Orange Box update fixing most/all of its promlems especially TF2

[SkylineR]

I love how all you PS3 fanboys take this CVG article and love it.

When CVG posts an "anti PS3 article", they're the most unreliable and biased pieces of shit on earth.

Rich.

[Rumor Monger]

a fanboy calls a fanboy a fanboy...hypocrite

[gamer8179]

The ps3 fanboys are just feeling good about themselves right now. Don't ruin it for them. They already get crappy ports, and very little features for online. Let them have this moment

[Persistantthug]

Perhaps you forgot that while PS3 has a VERY comparable online gaming system, that btw, Ive been playing a hell of alot of BFBC2,

You seem to forget that the PS3 has other online features such as the browser.
With that browser, I've been able to watch ever episode of TRUE BLOOD and DEXTER....and I don't even have HBO or SHOWTIME.

With that browser I can also use Pandora, Facebook, YouTube, Twitter...get FREE THEMES...FREE Porn, and do and use more stuff than I can count.

Do you call that "very little online features", gamer8179?

I'll pm you this message,if that alright with you.

[DarkFantasy]

PS3..It only Dose Porn. ;)

[Silly gameAr]

I've always thought CVG was a garbage site, no matter the topic.

[Jazz4108]

Good for you I have a computer for that crap. And guess what you could have played lfd 1 and 2 and great orange box no port and all the mass effects and tales of vesperia and gears and halo etc many many years ago by owning a 360. I hope you enjoy these ports of old games if you get them. If you do play them on the pc or ps3 it will be is my computer going to play it or how long will the install take. Just jump in and enjoy both consoles like I do.

[PotNoodle]

I've been saying this for ages. Valve's hate wasn't ever specifically for the PS3, the original hate from Gabe Newell actually started from him hating on Microsoft and the 360. This isn't anything new, Gabe hasn't suddenly turned into hating Xbox live, he has been saying this for years.

The only difference is what people are choosing to publish.

[Eiffel]

Wow, Valve is certainly bi-polar.

[Gamer_Z]

I really do think xbox live is better than psn but the money hungry douchebag's that are running it makes it a joke

[rapidturtle]

This is Hilarious. The best part is, a lot of people are defending their $10 price increase.

[Silly gameAr]

Articles like this just bring the worst out of people.

[TronEOL]

First developers are talking about how the 360's DVD Format is not enough space for their games, so they need to remove content to make it fit. Which then hurts the multiplatform games for other Console/PC owners. Only to have Microsoft refuse (stubbornly, like a 5 year old not wanting to eat vegetables) to eventually implement BluRay drives.

Now Developers are disliking the "no free DLC or updates on XboxLive" thing.
This is when PS3 looks much more attractive. Once seen as a difficult platform to develop on, now seen as a very open platform owned by risktakers giving gamers what they want.

[d10sfan]

Valve saying this is the pot calling the kettle black. Steam has tons of issues that Valve just ignores.

[RagTagBnd445]

For example?

[DarkFantasy]

I have a feel and from reading most of peoples comments they didn't read the article,oh well i enjoyed it..interesting i never knew this before

"Microsoft has a notoriously closed approach to its online service compared to PSN, with developers allowed as little as one free title update (though there are exceptions) and limitations on the amount of free game content they can release."

learn some thing new every day by actually reading the articles.

[videogamescliche]

xbox live is actually set up better than steam in alot of way's the only bad thing about xbox live is everythings intergrated together so if xbox live server messes up lol nobody can play online, having seperate servers/master servers has some advantages, but also disadvantages when it comes to communication.

[SuperbVillain]

wow its funny how things have made a 180....

[DeadIIIRed]

I said this before when these people bashed the PS3. They need to quit complaining and just make do with what they have. Voicing concerns like professionals with Microsoft is one thing, complaining is something entirely different.

[tudors]

"In particular It's a huge turnaround for Newell, a man who once called PS3 "a waste of everybody's time" - something for which he later apologised for to owners of the console."

I wander how much they paid him appologise...Gabe if you don't like the service good for you that you moved but don't be so two faced, have you complained to Sony about lack of cross game chat? they are two different services, what you expect them to be the same or somthing.

[MrLife]

LOL at Valve changing sides every second.
That's what happens when your'e not under the spotlight anymore

[N4BmpS]

Interesting Valve, interesting.

[Sgt_Slaughter]

N4G, the official fanboy website for PS3 V. 360 arguments.

[Captain Tuttle]

The only difference is that now PS 3 fanboys have a hard on for him. What happened to all the fat jokes, huh guys?

[Wardog1368]

He's not saying xbl sucks. It's much more like XBL is the appstore of consoles. Just like apple is a nazi about what is put onto the app store, Microsoft is about XBL. While PSN is much more like android that gives developers much more leg room to work with. This is not an XBL vs. PSN thread for users. This is for developers.

[mayberry]

IMHO the recession is hurting just about every american based business. so, if valve see's a cheaper route, it would be in their best interest to pursue it! If psn doesn't charge dev's, then valve should go for it.
ps3 owners will have more content, and that is always a plus, esp. in justifying an expensive hobby purchase, such was my launch 60g. keep it coming!

[Trroy]

Valve is basically completely honest, and self-centric. They complained about the PS3 architecture because its different, and that's a headache for them, no matter what the benefits.

Now they complain about XBL, because XBL's structure doesn't cater itself to their business needs.

You can't blame them for being open and honest. At the same time, you can't assume that their opinion will be universally shared by the game dev and game business community.

Valve is Valve. They speak for themselves, and no one else, although others may share their opinions.

[ChickeyCantor]

First he was some fat douchebag, but now the same people calling him like that are praising him.

[Dead_Cell]

PC's provide a great patching and Modding system along with Community Freebies whereas Microsoft, notorious for being very protective over their products and nickle and diming, would not provide.

Sony is more open minded when it comes to that stuff, there basic premise is "sure, do what you want, create us money and prestige".

[PS3-247]

Wow this is too funny. MS has been getting alot of negativity lately. Valve has finally seen the light.

[deno]

funny how time works. Ps3 is becoming my preferred console and I was a good 360 fan. Microsofts business model is always backwards.

[MetalFreakMike]

WOW! I never thought Valve would say something like that about XBOX LIVE. They want to be in total control of their products and give map packs for free if they want too.

[Tikicobra]

So even Valve has turned against Microsoft now?

[IHateYouFanboys]

the hypocrisy in this thread is laughable lol.

its been basically 4 years of 'gabe newell is one of the worst developers ever', 'gabe newell is fat and doesnt know what hes talking about', 'we dont want valve games on PS3 cause they all suck', 'gabe newell is a talentless fatty', etc etc............then as soon as he starts making games on the PS3 and says something negative about microsoft everyone on here loves him and says how great and wonderful of a developer he is! hahahahahaha

and i do believe it was only a matter of days ago when these same people were also saying to boycott CVG and that CVG are a microsoft biased rubbish website purely because someone wrote an article about GT5s damage not looking too crash hot lol. now all of a sudden CVG is fantastic and everything they write is gospel? lol

good job N4G.

[TABSF]

Both PS3 and 360 fans are hypocrites

The only true followers of Valve, Steam and Gabe Newell is PC gamers

PC it only does everything

[TABSF]

Disagreeing only proves my point hahahaha

[MrLife]

Homosexual.

[jashmister]

I don't know why you are getting disagrees but at least the middle of his comment is true Valve ARE a PC company, valve are staying with PC gamers more than anyone because they own the most popular PC gaming client, Steam.

[QuantumSponge]

This coming from the people behind Steam? Sure, it might be better now, but it was a complete trainwreck when it first came out. Nearly ruined my appetite for online services.

Upon further reading, it seems like this is more about money than software infrastructure. MS want to get paid for allowing developers to update their games. No surprise there. But this is coming from the hardest direction. I mean, the accusation of another company being autocratic from one whose own online service requires you to be connected online to even play your games that you *own* and have purchased legally? Wow.

Also, is it just me, or is it fanboy week here at N4G?

[jashmister]

I always think its fanboy day here at N4G

[TheNocturnus]

Live>PSN ANYDAY. Disagree all you want but i've had both, PSN is a joke. If you don't believe me then get a 360 and find out for yourself.

[Sarobi]

Had a 360 longer then PS3 and i can't say its better, 50 dollars a year for what?, PSN does everything a VIDEO GAME system needs, anything else is unneccessary, if you don't believe me then you need a better life

[strickers]

Totally agree.Live was cancelled a while back for me.

[Argento-Nox]

@Nocturnus30

Take into consideration that Gabe Newell went on stage at the last E3 con and stated the PS3 (his most hated system at the beginning of this gen) version of portal 2 would be the definitive version on home console due to Steam and free updates.

That says a lot when you consider in retrospect, especially when Gabe Newell is clearly saying that Sony was right to have a more open gaming system. Gloat all you want about LIVE, but I assure you that by next gen it'll be another bulleye that Sony shoots down, the same way Sony is pushing more exclusives games while taking away 360 exclusives (Valve and ME2 anyone?).

[Kamikaze8]

Talk about misquoting themselves to boost the hits. In the article they said his assumptions about Xbox Live were a train wreck. He wasnt talking about Live itself, either way I do agree that the free updates problem needs to be fixed, but whatever, I dont really care, its not going to kill me.

[GodHandDee]

these guys on your side vs against you any day

so welcome to the darkside Valve

[jony_dols]

U love rubbing people up the wrong way.

He enjoys pissin off overly sensitive fanboys.

He'll prob end up burnin a koran 2mro, just to stir more
shit up, and get his fat ass in the limelight.

[MadMan00]

The only train wreck I see is this article and this site.

[ChronoJoe]

This is cool, but this is the case.

I can see valve abusing PSN, to get what they want from Microsoft. Based on what they said previously, they flat out hate the console, but since Microsoft literally won't give them what they need, they had to go elsewhere.

But they still gotta hate the console, I mean XBL or PSN were no dif two years ago when the fat bastard was still hating... if this was really what they wanted, they obviously must have based their past decision to focus on XBL based on other factors... now they're intentionally causing a fuss, letting M$ know why they left the platform as lead development... what I suspect is that this is in hope that Microsoft will change their ways.

Then of course, the 'turncoats' or w/e, will be back in bed with MS. I don't much care for Valve or MS, but one thing I know is that the two companies are like, made to work for eachother. One produces a console where FPS sell, EXTREMELY well, the other produces... almost exclusively FPS...

[theroadtoruin]

valve is just happy with what ever benefits them, first its PS3 sucks cause it too hard to develop on now its the Sh*t to them because they can run steam with it.

[Hiruu]

Errrr...Valve is saying they messed up in their planning...oh...why would I assume most of you xbox haters would even read the real article, not just the Foxnews-like spin N4G puts on things...hmmmm...this kinda reminds me of a certian case this year with Dept of Agriculture.

[Argento-Nox]

I think it already says a lot that Gabe Newell, one of the hughest detractors of the PS3 at launch, says the PS3 version of Portal 2 will be the definitive version on home console due to steam. 360 fanboys up until now, were all gloating about Valve games like L4D and L4D2 etc., yet now there isn't much they can say.

I'm willing to bet Splinter Cell Conviction is the next game after ME2 to be announced for the PS3 next year. Certainly it will be mentioned that ME2 and Splinter Cell Conviction were released on the 360 a year earlier, but that's missing the bigger picture that future titles from those series will be day 1 multi-platform games. Suddenly, the 360 doesn't have as many exclusives with the exception of xbox LIVE game.

[unworthyBOZO]

Wow how the times have changed.

[stuntman_mike]

thats a turn around...I think Gabe might be a MANWHORE!

[omi25p]

Gabe newell is the definition of sellout. Not that valve is putting games on ps3, but because he was once quoted saying "PS3 was a failure" and now sony has paid valve to put games on ps3 (not that theres anything wrong with that) he is now bitching about xbox. Gabe newell grow up