Mafia II - Final PS3 Build Has No Grass, Less Blood and Inferior Cloth Movement

2K Elizabeth on the Official Mafia II forums has this to say about the Final Build of the PS3 version of Mafia II:

"Hey guys,

When designing Mafia II, we optimized for each of the three different systems the game would run on to make sure the core experience was the best it could be. Because of this, there are some differences from one platform to the next. In terms of the PS3 version, I wanted to clarify a couple points you have been asking about: There will not be highly detailed grass or large pools of blood, the cloth movement is less noticeable than, for example, the PC version, and the visual fidelity in the demo is generally representative of what you’ll see in the full game. "

[Hellsvacancy]

Well, thats a day-1 buy downgraded 2 a rental, im wise when it comes to buyin games so i feel like ive let myself down on this game, was really lookin 4-ward 2 it aswell

What pisses me off is we all know the PS3 is a number of stars above the 360 (the games show that) so y on earth should i hav 2 settle 4 second best?

Lazy development is my guess, its like, do u think they even played the both games after? "hmmmm, theres no grass in the PS3 version", "its ok, who-ever looks down at the grass anyway"

So now comes the wait for Fallout Veags :-(

[Nitrowolf2]

agree, there is no reason it should be like that, it should be on Par. Even little details like this become noticable. It not that it really doesn't bother me that there are less details just the fact that the devs seem lazy over fixing a little problem.

[ExplosionSauce]

Also, I love how some people bellow immediately jump to hate on a certain system, this time being the PS3, the moment articles like this comes out. These guys pop out suddenly.
Some like to say N4G is PS3-fan dominated, but let's be honest, it's pretty damn even.
_____

[On topic]
I don't know how 2K will respond to this. I mean, we have seen better on the PS3. And simple things like these are signs of some poor development choices. Some devs don't learn or take note from previously made mistakes. You just can't develop for the PS3 the same way you would for 360 or PC.
I still think it's a good game, but come on.

Also:
"we optimized for each of the three different systems the game would run on to make sure the core experience was..."
I believe I've heard this excuse before too.

[WhittO]

4+ years and there are STILL Devs incapable of good programming for the PS3?

No excuses now, people said don't call them lazy etc if some devs find it difficult to code for, but it has been YEARS, there really is no excuse for this to still be happening in mid 2010!

[Aquanox]

Those Gamespot shots were obviously bullshots. Sadly, we'll have to avoid the PS3 version at all cost. PC version is definitely the one to get but if you only have consoles, you need to go for the Xbox 360 version.

[SilentNegotiator]

So that creative director was full of crap when he claimed that they were identical.
I don't buy games from liars. I'll wait to get it used and cheap.

@Mandatory_Install
Oh noes! We have to deal with more content instead of grass!?
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
And you have to admit, with 2K members claiming identical versions and prettier screens from content EXCLUSIVE to the ps3 version, it was definitely looking like they would be identical.

[niceguywii60]

Well the PS3 version was already proven to be inferior most often if the game is inferior in a demo comparison there is a reason one version is inferior and will be reflected in the final game.

Devs struggle with the PS3 so they started to cater to the lowest common denominator(PS3) using PS3 as lead so the PS3 would never have to struggle with the 360's advantages by default(despite PS3 being the lead in some games the 360 versions always matched or where/are superior). I see the trend is changing once again to the way it was.
Devs are starting to develop simultaneously again due to the fierce competition with other developers allowing them to get their best work out at the cost of different quality variants across platforms yet not held back by one platform across the board.

PS3 fans will do damage control in response to anything bad about PS3 you can never believe their damage control SDF articles that follow bad PS3 news or PS3 fanboy articles leading up to an gaming event etc.

[karl]

c'mon guys... MAFIA2 will be such an awesome game.

the ps3 version may be inferior to the other platform and even though i agree that it shouldnt.. i dont think u guys should miss this great game

if u have a pc ... played it there same if u have a 360 .. but dont let this game pass .. i will buy it on ps3...

[blind-reaper]

instead of "EXCLUSIVE CONTENT" they should have invested those resources in "finishing" the PS3 version.

[DaTruth]

I have to disagree. Demos for PS3 are always compressed for distribution so the Ps3 demo does not necessarily have to reflect the finished product! The Ps3 demo for Batman:AA was inferior to the 360 demo, but he finished retail version was superior!

The 360 is tailored for compression, so highly compressed downloadable demos perform better, while the PS3 is tailored for streaming of uncompressed data and textures so compressed demos wouldn't generally perform well!

But considering that most multiplat devs compress the PS3 version of their games for no apparent reason(only thing I can think of is a straight port of the compressed 360 version), it is highly likely that you are right.

[Hallmark Moment]

They finished the game they just turned some things off and downgraded some things in the ps3 version so ps3 could run the game.
P PSW10
BV DV62CLR-S
P TSI-100
S LN46C650
B 201 series
XB 250gb 360-s
B 301 series
B 161
S BD- c5500
P VSX-902-k (soon)

[BISHOP-BRASIL]

There is a reason, Cell architeture isn't like PC. Last gen optimizing games for multiple consoles was almost as easy as set configurations for a PC game. This gen devs would have to actually redo parts of the program to fit the Cell architeture right, develop way better engines to work multiplat, reasign many of what usually are core CPU and GPU tasks to one of the SPEs, test a lot more to find the best they can take from the machine with their code, work with smaller (through faster) XDR Main RAM while organizing the video data to go to dedicated VRAM (256MB GDDR3)... It takes time, money and talent (this later one which many simply don't have), even if you try to avoid the PC port hell and lead development at PS3, in which case you also won't end up with code ready to port for PC and 360 (but as PC architeture is more familiar it's quickier and cheaper to optimize for it, and things like grass won't go missing somewhere through the process).

In other words, many Devs and Publishers simply prefer to have less work/cost and put out flawed games than actually deserve those 60 bucks. Although it's a reason it's not a good excuse.

[maxcer]

@DaTruth

"The 360 is tailored for compression, so highly compressed downloadable demos perform better, while the PS3 is tailored for streaming of uncompressed data and textures so compressed demos wouldn't generally perform well!"

lol omg what a load of pure bull shit.

[bakasora]

I played the demo i can see that the quality of texture arent so great. Now thats some lazy sh!t!

[FarEastOrient]

I've downgraded my purchase from collector's edition to wait for it on sale...

[FACTUAL evidence]

ORLY?? Explain why FF13 is inferior on the 360 then.

[HSx9]

http://i34.tinypic.com/2447...

[Foliage]

This is embarrassing. When you create a PC game and place it on both consoles like they have, the PS3 performs twice as fast immediately. I've had this happen with 4 games I worked on.

Unfortunately you are left with nothing else to do but focus your optimization on the 360 alone to make up for the lack of space and terrible processor. As a result, you leave the PS3 version on the shelf because it didn't need as much optimization.

In the end you have a PS3 game with very little optimization, and a 360 game that was optimized to death and barely runs anyway (Mafia 2 on 360 has no AA and terrible screen-tearing). That's the hard truth.

In this case they probably ran out of time and shipped whatever they had, which is terrible from a developer of their caliber... embarrassing really. No other words... maybe "pathetic", that also comes to mind. Instead of optimizing the PS3 version, they went with the quick fix of disabling anything they could switch off. This is an obvious sign that they paid very little attention to the PS3 game. Grass and emitters are not something you plan to cut, those are things you cut because you ran out of time.

I'm not buying this game. I was going to, but no amount of DLC in the world will cover this up. Even 360 owners will get screwed, sine their game runs worse than the PS3 version (at least they have the small details though)....

pathetic.

[nycredude]

Look at all the comments of hypocrites. All the people talking down teh Ps3 version and talking up the 360 should just stop talking. Cause if it was that important to you that the game ran good then you wouldn't consider either version and go with the Pc version.

I paid it off on steam already and am playing through Mafia 1 for free while I wait for the superior version to unlock.

[kasasensei]

@Datruth
"Demos for PS3 are always compressed for distribution so the Ps3 demo does not necessarily have to reflect the finished product!"

Ridiculous. omg you failed so hard! XD
Demos are never representative, but there is no "more compression with the ps3 and it's leading to a biased representation of the game", you are saying bullshit.

[T9X69]

Well I tried to tell everyone here those Gamespot screenshots where the PC version using a PS3 controller, but noooooooooooooo I'm an "Xbox Fanboy" and I was just trolling.

[danfry]

When compared to PC and 360 (which are practically identical, PC's are just very, very powerful 360's), the PS3 is radically different to code for. In fact, whilst the PC version just needs a simple port to the 360, the PS3 needs an entirely different engine for the game to run on. This is of course very, very expensive as the entire architecture of the code has to be changed for a good PS3 port.

So what has happened here is that despite the above, the developers still just port the code to the PS3, but because of the different hardware of the PS3, the game has to be simplified a lot, only using 2 of the 8 PS3's processing cores and so on.

This is like having a Ferrari, but only doing 35MPH because there is a Horse Box in front of you.

[0mega4]

computers have more power of course there will be some that will be able to play them at the highest settings

yet some will play on a lower setting much like what playing on the console version is like

it will have no effect on game play

[frostypants]

Looks like if I'm gonna play this game it'll be on my 360. Note the "if". Since these devs are too lazy to make freaking grass on the PS3, I can only imagine that their laziness and ineptitude will manifest itself in other areas of the game as well, on all platforms.

So, I'm just not going to bother with this game at all. I'm not going to reward mediocrity.

[moparful99]

Enough! People need to stop speculating as to why the ps3 has issues when it comes to ports.. It has nothing to do with the ps3 being inferior or a bad system it has everything to do with a design decision. Because the cell uses spe's it only has a single core so developers get the code running on the single core and leave the spe's untouched. THIS is why multiplats suffer on ps3, they are only using a fraction of the calculation potential of the ps3. Sony and ibm created the cell with split memory 256 each for pre and post processing so when the single core is used half of the memory is available... I really wish deevelopers would learn to use the spe's seeing as they offer huge advantages in processing on the ps3 but due to time or money or whatever reasons they do not.. We get inferior ports more often then not...

[The Lazy One]

"This is embarrassing. When you create a PC game and place it on both consoles like they have, the PS3 performs twice as fast immediately. I've had this happen with 4 games I worked on. "

Which games are those? I can tell you right now, nobody who's worked on any game that's actually licensed for both consoles would ever say such a thing. While it may be true, saying something like that would probably lose you your job or at least land you in a lot of hot water.

Also it's stupid. The PS3 would never perform twice as fast immediately. It's a completely different architecture. The only way it would perform better immediately would be if you programmed it poorly for the PC in the first place.

It could perform better after a couple months of work, but it would never perform better immediately.

[BrianB]

Teh power of teh cell

[RememberThe357]

That gives them less of a reason. If 2k wants to drag their feet then they will have to take less sales.

[D4RkNIKON]

Yeah it is the Cell's fault, not the devs. You must be some kind of Genius! /s

The PS3 can do Uncharted and GOW but can't pull off Mafia II because... DEVS

[ExplosionSauce]

This isn't a matter of hardware. We've definitely seen better on the PS3.

[SeanRL]

What makes me mad was that at one point, 360 fanboys were bitching about how their version was superior. Then, ps3 fanboys started bitching about how it's equal. Now everyone is gonna be bitching!

Oh, and there is no excuse not to fix this.

[BrianG]

It is def not a hardware issue, this is just lazy development. If they can not get the game to run equally as good, then they need to fire who they have developing for the PS3 and get more experienced people. It is just about 4 years since the PS3 launched, there is no excuse for this type of development.

Yea the CELL may be harder to program for, if thats the case get more experienced people.

By the way, this goes for both systems, there is no reason for sub par multiplats on XBox neither. If you cant make them equal, don't make it.

[Brosy]

The Cell might theoritically be more powerful, but you would never know it looking at the PS3's games. 2 games that look exceptional is pathetic compared to the amount of titles on the market. Oh well, 2k Czech isn't exactlly famous for making great games anyway.

[JackBNimble]

I have the Mafia 2 demo on both PS3 and PC, and I tell ya they are pretty much the same.
The PC version didn't seem all that much better then the PS3, maybe a little crisper but I really didn't notice any difference in the grass or anything else for that matter.

EDIT: Just to be clear .... the PC version ain't all that shit hot either!

[darkziosj]

just like all the ps3 multiplatform games nothing new

[gamingdroid]

I think people are missing the point, it isn't about if the hardware is capable. It is about human resources and software technology that better fits the current technology.

The Cell may well be a supercomputer when it comes to cranking out Fast Fourier Transforms or whatever other calculations, but it is not as good for general computation. Cell is designed to do fast computation on repeated calculations, not on memory intensive tasks.

This means that a lot of the current programming paradigms will not work on the Cell. You will have to redesign the software from scratch and this is no laughing matter. That is very costly, not to mention the learning curve.

Devs or not, Sony isn't innocent. This is the result of supposed "superior" technology introduced when the market isn't ready.

[n4gno]

"just like all the ps3 multiplatform games nothing new"

only xbox dreamers believe that kind of joke (it's less pathetic than others "ooposite world" examples, like "you have no games", or "x more powerfull than ps3", but always sad to see misinformed people trying to misinform others)

[FarEastOrient]

@gamingdroid

No it basically boils down to talent, and for the comparison of the PS3 I'll have to use the PC as an example. I'm using a Quad-Core i7 which is really nice, yet even Starcraft II isn't using it to full specs and Civilization 5 isn't expected to either.

I use an 8-Core for my servers yet many of the programs feeding through the system maxes out at Duo-Cores.

What I'm getting at even though technology has gotten better, human programming isn't catching up as fast and definitely not passing the current limitations. Moore's law is working for machines but human processing is still too slow, need to change on how one thinks about writing code.

[Kurt Russell]

The only time PS3 games look any good is after years and years of development as an exclusive. It's a shit to program for, which is clear when not viewed through fanboy goggles - Only person to blame is Sony for that, not "lazy programmers" etc... These lazy programmers do a great job on other systems. Wake up smell the roses people.

Chumps

[frostypants]

Brosy, 2 games? Metal Gear, Little Big Planet, GT5:P, Uncharted, Uncharted 2, GOW, Wipeout HD, etc. None of these have an equal on the 360. And I own both platforms, so don't try to BS me here.

[0mega4]

but its exclusives rival graphics achieved on very highend computer systems

ps3 in comparison with the 360 wins hands down in the graphical compartment of gaming

the xbox may come out with the most sales but the ps3 will be remembered as developers pushing it to its limits and creating some of the best games of the generation

[gamingdroid]

Actually, NO! Your logic is kind of really far off base.

Human programming? I don't even know what that means?

As processing power gets faster and programming projects gets bigger, what do you think the developers will put resources into? Maximizing the performance or put more resources into finishing the product?

My point being, hardware (and hence programming tools) should focus on how a programmer can most EASILY take advantage of a available computing power. There is no point in exerting an extra 80% work, to squeeze out 5-10%! That is not economical.

[S_C]

why should less grass make a day 1 go to a preowned ?

[RememberThe357]

Instead of looking for ways around the issues they had with the PS3, they left is alone and gave PS3 buyers some exclusive DLC. That's lame.

There are a ton of games coming out and that I have passed up, you have to earn my purchase. Thats is not how you do it. And since now that my 360 crapped out all I can play is my PS3. The PS3 version is like an unfinished 360 version and that's bull shit.

[MiloGarret]

"Instead of looking for ways around the issues they had with the PS3, they left is alone and gave PS3 buyers some exclusive DLC. That's lame."

I don't think it's as easy as simply "finding ways" around the issues, it's clearly an issue about resources as well given how often it happens. I also think it's a fantastic solution to offer free dlc as compensation.

[Persistantthug]

But if its more, then as a hardcore PS3 owner, I'm not gonna reward bad work, the same way I and others didn't reward Platinum Games for their crappy job of BAYONETTA.

Doing so will only encourage them to do what they did again.

I mention Platinum Games, because it looks like Czech 2K did the same thing.... they tied to get someone else do the port when they should have develop led the game on the PS3 in the first place.
http://www.massivebear.com/...

If they lose enough sales and critical acclaim and get embarrassed enough, they'll so it right the next time, and so will many other onlooking developers......they'll be to frightened not too.

Fear works wonders....Ask Platinum Games :)

[morganfell]

No reason for this level of incompetent development. Preorder canceled.

[siyrobbo]

seems that instead of specifically developing for each system, they just ported the pc code and downgraded it

i can only speak for the 360 version

aliasing is horrendous
game looks sub-hd

not very impressed

especially when you look at a game like red dead redemption, even though the ps3 version is sub hd, both versions look fantastic

[morganfell]

In light of great looking multiplt titles this type of half assed work is inexcusable. The only thing these developers and publishers understand is a vote with the wallet.

I give them a day before they print something worthless called a "clarification." They need to understand that PS3 gamers don't like shovelware.

Far too many games from 3rd parties look great. This isn't 2006. Excuse value - 0. Sales from me - 0.00

[commodore64]

@ Morganfell.

Hmmm, the third party games you are referring to are likely KZ2, GOW3 and UC2.
Apart from those three, there is nothing that really shows us the power of the ps3.

As a matter of fact, for every ONE of your third party games that look really great on ps3, there are 20+ multiplats that are simply inferior on the ps3.

There really is no other way to put it.
We are halfway through 2010 and today multiplats continue the trend of being inferior on the ps3.

It has become one of the defining hallmarks of the ps3 this gen.
Don't get mad about it.
Just accept it.

I am sure Mafia II will still be a decent game on ps3.
The developer has stated that:
"Our aim is to make a cohesive and immersive experience and optimize the game for each platform so that it could run its best. And while there are some differences between each version, I’m sure you’ll find that the core gameplay and the heart of Mafia II remains no matter whether you play on PS3, 360, or PC."

There you have it - it'll still be ok on ps3.
It's not the end of the world.

[jetlian]

morganfell why don't you tell the experts how to do it lol. people just won't except the facts that cell isn't all its cracked up to be

[XabiTheHumble]

so KZ2 UC2 and GOW3 are third party titles now? LMAO!!!

[Anon1974]

Whenever there's an article about a PS3 port that might have a slightly blurred texture or unnoticeable difference in loading times you'll find some fanboy who insists that this is the norm. 2007 was a long time ago, my friends. While there may be some versions that lag on one console, these are few and far between and it all boils down to opinion anyway. What makes a game superior? Better graphics, or 5% less screen tearing or load times or control issues with a faulty d-pad or paying extra to game online, etc...etc? It all boils down to personal preference.

Even the sites like Lens of Truth have commenting recently, even when they give one console a victory over another that "You'd never be able to notice the difference, even side by side." And what do sites like this compare? 5% of the multiplat games out there?

Differences between versions of software are inevitable when you're developing for totally different hardware - but most developers have it down so you'd never notice. Thankfully we have the internet to point it out when, if pausing the game and zooming in on that certain shadow to the left in the background - god forbid a texture is a little blurred on one version compared to the other.

I agree with Morganfell on this one. When it does happen, there's only the developer to blame. We know what the PS3 hardware is capable of because we see it proven time and time again.

[jneul]

@commodore way to be ignorant I can name many more games

Even uncharted 1 is better than most games on x360 and that was a release game but anyway enough of that here is my list that owns your entire statement

Heavenly Sword
Wipeout HD
GT5:Prologue (still better than forza 3)
Uncharted 1
Uncharted 2
Ratchet And Clank:TOD(was platformer on release)
Ratchet And Clank:ACIT(now is best platformer and no platformer is as good on x360, sorry)
MGS4
Killzone 2
Infamous (looks better and is better than prototype in every way)
Heavy Rain
GOW III

Multiplatforms that was better on PS3
FF13
Dragon Age
Batman:AA

UPCOMING GAMES THAT MAKE X360 LOOK LIKE SOMETHING FROM LAST GEN:
Infamous 2
KIllzone 2
Motorstorm: A
GT5

my list can keep on going on but carry on thinking x360 is superior when the best x360 could do is wake and was meant to make PS3 look inferior but only confirmed x360 has no juice left in the box 540p and 4XAA compared to GOW III 720p and MLAA (which is 16xAA to idiots), btw KZ3 AN INFAMOUS 2 AND LBP2 ARE USING MLAA SO NO MORE EXCUSES ABOUT IT ONLY BEING DOWN TO HAVING FIXED CAMERAS:P

[solidjun5]

You're as ignorant as ever man. You're so blinded by console loyality, it's almost laughable you try to tailor your writing to sound article. Laughable.

As someone pointed out, here's a list of games that throw your ridiculous argument out the window.

Heavenly Sword
Wipeout HD
GT5:Prologue (still better than forza 3)
Uncharted 1
Uncharted 2
Ratchet And Clank:TOD(was platformer on release)
Ratchet And Clank:ACIT(now is best platformer and no platformer is as good on x360, sorry)
MGS4
Killzone 2
Infamous (looks better and is better than prototype in every way)
Heavy Rain
GOW III

See? you're a nutty fanboy. Don't deny it. Accept it. I'm sure you're cringing inside.

[Christopher]

Yeah, the stark differences just pushed me over to buying this for the PC instead.

[raztad]

the differences are ridiculous. I have a piss poor laptop, played it on low settings and still looked better. The only thing I'll be missing is the additional content.

[JackBNimble]

Really... you have a piss poor laptop, played it on low settings and still looked better?

Bullshit!!

[ProjectVulcan]

Subjective. Even with lower settings if he maintains a good framerate and has vsync on so its at least playable than i would prefer it over a bunch of tearing and slowdown.

I thought the 360 demo had bad tearing and slowdown- until i played the PS3 version. I wouldnt put money down on EITHER console version, much like i wouldnt with the original mafia which was only any good on PC too.

There is simply no way i would play this on a console because of they way they run more than how they look. I just cant stand teary chuggy games.

[raztad]

@Jack

I' m not bullshiting.

My laptop only got a ATI 3650, Core 2 Duo 2.5GHz.

Granted I had to lower the res bellow 720p to keep a playable framerate, but the image quality of the PS3 version was comparable to mine, and on top of that the PC version had "extra" stuff like grass and better textures.

Of course I'm not playing this game until I get a decent PC, but it is very sad the PS3 is in such a poor state.

[jack_burt0n]

@vulcan

Whats wrong with your ps3?! granted neither console version has vsync but the ps3 has less tearing pretty clearly.

So tbh i can understand them cutting the grass lol to get it even a little better, hell playing the pc version i had to cut the physx because the optimization was total shite if it worked at all supposedly it needs a new set of nvidia drivers.

[JackBNimble]

I only quoted you,
" I have a piss poor laptop, played it on low settings and still looked better".

I would agree that it's comparable on pc at low settings, the only real difference that I could see at that level was the grass.

There has never been any doubt in my mind that the PC version is a better looking game, just not to the extent that most PC fanboys claim.Although I don't have the best graphics card yet either .... so what do I know?

[ProjectVulcan]

'PS3 has less tearing' Well i'll leave that up to a technical analysis and someone with the tools to prove that but to my eyes it didnt. Not that im claiming 360 had less, they both seemed about as prone which was....very.

Even if PS3 does have a bit less, Its like saying someone is a bit less dead from a fatal accident.

All that tearing is still nasty

Plus physx on Pc is purposely screwed up by nvidia anyway so it doesnt run well on slower cards or CPUs

[tinybigman]

it's a good thing i didn't pay for the game with hard earned cash. i love trade-ins :)

[tinybigman]

would give a disagree with trading in games to get another? sad person.

[FragMnTagM]

GAMES for one new one I suppose.

[number47]

are all here in full force celebrating minimal graphical differences between a PC version of a game, compared to a console version of a game.

These people all make excuses for the lack of visually stunning titles on their console, and claim that gameplay is of the utmost importance when it comes to gaming. Where is that attitude right now? I often see the people make excuses to flame by saying "so the ps3 s 'allegedly' powerful yet it can't do grass?!!?". Well in incapable hands, any tool can be misused. After seeing what it has to offer, how can a person come to the conclusion that 2k is the end all designer and developer of games, not a Naughty Dog, or someone trained in it? -- Thats right, none of you will be in that story commenting.

Yet, we see these people here today celebrating grass, and cloth movment? Its as if they have these uncanny eagle eyes when it comes to the differences in multiplatforms, but then they have mudvision when it comes to other titles.

Its amazing how people can't see things when they aren't avaliable on their console. Its a shame that 2k is lying about the PS3 version of the game at this point.

I'm going to sign up onto the forum and ask point blank, are the Screenshots on the PSblog from the PS3 version of the game, if so, why is there grass in the build, and high levels of AA that aren't in the Demo. 2k games is pulling a Turn10/Epic with this one, they deserve to be busted for it.