Xbox's lack of Blu-ray a 'problem' for developers

The developer of the gorgeous-looking Castlevania: Lords Of Shadow has called on Microsoft to help developers overcome Xbox 360's "storage problem".

The 360 version of LOS will ship on two DVD discs when it is released later this year - but the PS3 version will arrive on a single Blu-ray.

[saint_john_paul_ii]

hasnt this been obvious already?

i thought people have already realized that....

[MorganX]

No, because no one has really exploited the weakness. It appears now may be the end of the line and lack of next gen storage may begin to hurt MS. Will be interesting if the new 360S can play games from a Blu-ray external. Wonder what HDMI chip it's using??

If they can't, they'd better be making plans to move to the next gen by 2012.

[Cold 2000]

I just got the Orange Box 2 days ago for the first time. I've never played HL2 & Portal so I wanted to give it a try. I got the package for 8€.

I was expecting to get several discs and couldnt believe that they were able to pack Half Life 2, Episode 1, Episode 2, Portal and Team Fortress in ONE single DVD.

Now I'm not saying Blu Ray isnt needed. But how is it that Valve can Pack all those games, that to this day still look good and that are masterpieces on one DVD when other devs have storage problems.

Anyways MS should just drop the royalties for extra discs and thats it.

[Archdemon]

The xbox360 could have been superior to the PS3 with a blueray drive.

Too bad MS.

[Persistantthug]

*sarcasm*

[DelbertGrady]

It didn't prevent developers such as Rockstar and Bethesda from creating some of the biggest games this gen with Red Dead Redemption, and Fallout 3. Each on 1 DVD.

If it's packed with pre-rendered cut-scenes I can see a problem though.

[Rot_in_Fail]

what about that hddvd drive lulz

[Faztkiller]

That's true but both those game Reuse stuff over and over again and the environments weren't very varied

[jerethdagryphon]

@cold

simply because the engine behind it and all the file formats is the same

a few cabinet files of textures per game and scripting and such each games files is probobly compressed to 2 gig or less

[HorsePowerr]

Xbox 360 is limiting GTA IV, says Rockstar:
http://www.computerandvideo...

[vsr]

People should understand the gaming experts comments.

[secksi-killer]

but i think that they (MS) will just f"*k it, and start telling devs to make games on two discs, but give people with HDD the choice of installing one disk, and just playing with second disc.

not an ideal solution, but something that i think is incoming.... GTA5 being the first game to do this me thinks

[ingiomar]

i dont think its a problem for the developers its more like an inconvenience

[fossilfern]

I know its been pretty much obvious from the start of the generation. MS charge extra for more than 1 disc and each 360 game is only allocated about 6.9GB ? i have nothing on the hard drive that has been more than 6.9GB and it is a set back, heres a link for GTA4 and R* openly saying DVD and the 360 not having a hard drive in each system is a problem:

http://www.computerandvideo...

[iPad]

If the PS3 was the lead console to program since 2006, I don't think the 360 would be here today. All those years mastering the Cell and using the capacity of the Blu Ray disk. The muliplatform games would be sooooooo much better!!

[TheFreak]

man they made a mistake there. Currently playing trough mass effect 2 and it is annoying swapping discs. Man I wish mass effect was released on the ps3 also

Edit: He revealed that the first LOS Xbox disc will offer an install option on the in-game menu, allowing gamers to play the full title off the second disc.

Is this possible with mass effect?

[talltony]

The hard drive in every ps3 is a bigger advantage than bluray. The 360 cant ever depend on a hard drive for anything because not all 360's have one.

[Faztkiller]

Sucks DVD is giving dev's headaches MS need to do something about the problem

[Folezicle]

Don't call me a fan-boy for backing microsoft, but the blu-ray issue has only been mentioned as an issue for one developer. A lot of developers keen to use the blu-ray to their advantage just make exclusives (E.g. Rockstar making agent. Although arguably both Sony and Microsoft would pay these companies to make exclusives) However the title is mis-leading as so far there has been one developer that has stated this, instead of millions of developers. This 'issue' may become more apparent in the future, as the technology advantages, and I imagine there will be an external blu-ray player or some other technology released to combat the issue. However in the current day there has been no issues with the DVD disc size, as there hasn't been an xbox 360 game (If there has been any it would be few) that have needed two discs. Although I kind of agree with this guys predictions, you can't take it like he knows the future..

So to answer your question, "no it isn't giving many developers head aches, for now. However times are changing and we are seeing more games being developed on the PS3 first than the 360 (just like this one), which could become an issue for the Xbox. However there is no need for Microsoft to waste their money on it as there hasn't been complaints from majority of the developers and stacks of games packed with multiple discs.."

My bad there has been two complaint Kojima and the guys from Bungie: http://www.jolt.co.uk/news/...

[dosgrtr]

http://www.computerandvideo... -capcom

http://www.joystiq.com/2007... -rockstar

[ZombieAutopsy]

I think SE stated that DVD holds them back too, but i just woke up and too lazy to search.

[webeblazing]

environment copy and paste thats what you always see with them thats why no problems.

[dosgrtr]

previous post but yeah add square enix too:
http://www.joystiq.com/2010...

[Folezicle]

The GTA article is extremely old, meaning it is really irrelevant as back then there was different circumstances.. Yes maybe one developer had issues however back then, alot of developers didn't know how to work with Blu-Ray and few needed to actually use blu-ray however you can add Capcom to the list. Although Capcom could be putting the blame on Microsoft for such a crap game.

Edit: Yep Final Fantasy is another you can add to the list, however once again they game didn't do too well in review so once again they could be putting the blame on Microsoft (however unlike Lost Planet 2 I think this is unlikely)... However I still reckon Microsoft have no reason to go and add a Blu-Ray player just yet. Hopefully by the end of the year as the list will increase. But to release it now would piss off a lot of people who just bought the new Xbox 360S. So what can we do?

[40cal]

The team working on PGR4 said they had to cut content due to the lack of space on a DVD.

This has been an issue for a few years now.

[Folezicle]

Instead of disagreeing with me listen to what I say. The blu-ray player isn't coming anytime soon.. Simply because people would be pissed off after just buying the new 360 to go buy a new accessory.. Although there seems to be more developer complaining about the limitation in 2010 (Previous years a lot of the complaints have been one off issues), not the majority and in particular companies that sell well on the Xbox such as Ubisoft and Activision. Thats not to say I don't want one, and the Xbox is perfect as it is, but more that blu-ray discs aren't an essential for all the major game companies for developing at this current day. However in the future games might follow a similar trend to Castlevania (in which it can only be fit on Blu-ray through one disc) in which Microsoft will need to use Blu-rays or some alternative technology to create core games.

Honestly to get agrees do I have to praise Sony for using Blu-rays..

[Optical_Matrix]

But I thought Blu-Ray wasn't needed?

[dirthurts]

As multiple disks are an option. Extra storage is more of a luxury. I've dealt with multiple disks for pc gaming for years. I've never minded. Just install and move on. People really try to make it into more of a problem than it is. Just use more disks.

[Yostoner]

yea you baicly said it, you install the game and move on, that doesnt work with 360, in 360 you have to switch disks all the time, in pc you dont even need the cd to play, you can just use cracks.

[ZombieAutopsy]

True it's not needed, but for every disc thats more money a dev has to pay royalties for. For the gamer yea it's no problem because i too install all my games but this is about devs.

[maxcer]

@4.1.1 here's the quote from the article because you obviously didn't read it

"He revealed that the first LOS Xbox disc will offer an install option on the in-game menu, allowing gamers to play the full title off the second disc."

[Skadoosh]

Mass Effect 2 had 2 discs and I had to swap it 2-3 times in 60 hours of game play. What's the problem? :/

[BornToKill]

you having to swap discs.

[pustulio]

Changing Disks is not the problem is the money Dev needs to create a 2-3 Disk game, also Blu-Ray is so but SO much powerful it has way too much memory to play with it's Devs wet dream.

Imagine what Bungie could have done with a Blu-Ray probably a game of UC2 or Gow3 caliber or less but still it could have been a LONG LONG campaing, bigger or more maps, even more stuff to play in Forge, etc...

But no MS used DVD format now games need to get cut, like Halo, Lost Planet, GTA, etc...

Bluagh....

[JakemanPS31994]

its not the disk switching i think. i think its not letting them have the best looking picture and if something takes like around 40 gb that would be 3 disks and dosnt microsoft make devs pay extra for 3 disks?

[Wizziokid]

I agree swapping disks isn't a problem, it's just being lazy if you can't be bothered and in some respects it's a good thing as it can indicate a break from the game but still it would be better just to have a single disk.

[sackgirl]

Yes we all know.

- Xbox gamers are not lazy, they love standing up in the middle of the game to change disc.
- They love to pay for online play, because they can afford it.
- They have no problem with RRoD, because Microsoft gives a 3 year warranty.
- etc.

[jaytv-pyro]

so they like it when M$ rapes them ???

[saint_john_paul_ii]

multiple discs= more royalty fees to Microsoft.

not every dev has the money to pull that off...

[maxcer]

im pretty sure the publishers pay disc royalties

[webeblazing]

yea so do they change the design if of the game if they cant?

[Skadoosh]

Born to Kill, you have a problem swapping discs? Does that mean you always have the same disc in your ps3? What do you do when you want to see a bluray movie?

Yeah more discs might mean more money to Microsoft but that's not what this article is about. It's about storage which can easily be remedied with an extra disc. And like I said in my previous post, Mass Effect 2 has 2 discs and only a couple of disc changes in 60 hours of game play. Their is no problem.

Like the article said...

"I mean, each console has it's own issues [360's smaller disc capacity and PS3's slower loading times], but you have to work around them."

[WoshJills]

The problem is that they have to compress all their files for it to work. Meaning they have to put less into a game.
Meaning DVDs restrict developers.

[xYLeinen]

24 hours long, no freaking way. I assume that's with the pre-rendered cut scenes tho, but STILL..

[Wizziokid]

MS really did hang themselves when they decided to pass on blu-ray tech, now the limitations are starting to show which sucks.

In terms of MS adopting blu-ray now, well that's too late, they would put a massive price tag on it for starters which would cause people not to buy it, then devs would still need to develop the games on a DVD disk because not every 360 owner will have the blu-ray expansion which will cost more to make a game and further loose the company money and they can't just leave the DVD user base out of the discussion.

The only way around this problem now is to wait until next gen where MS will have to adopt blu-ray or w.e tech is current then.

Halo Reach will be the biggest game on 360 which can fit onto a single disk (feature wise) and I don't think we will see that topped this gen.

[xYLeinen]

I don't think it is as easy to just adopt bluray for the next gen. Microsoft is not a part of the bluray association which Sony is. Not sure what legal terms and such will affect things.

[kneon]

All they would need to do is pay the fee and royalties, no one is going to block Microsoft from joining.

[dragon82]

How can you get disagrees for true facts?? This site cracks me up some days.

[Yostoner]

i remember 3 years ago Microsoft saying "pfffft blue ray? who needs that, we got DVDs." now all i hear are the sounds of kids jumping in there living rooms to kinect and making friends with fake boys. ahhh Microsoft, work on your hardware please.

[Dioxinis]

im just glad they arent compremising the ps3(both) version instead of putting this on 2 discs.

honestly i hope this keeps happening so we get better games granted the 360 versions will be getting more 2 disc games but it will show microsoft they need blu-ray in the nextbox

hopefully developers will continue ot make bigger games taking advantage of those blurays and if xbox owners require 2 discs so be it

[ForzaGT]

sooner or later microsoft is going to have to bring alternative solution if they to bring exclusives that can be improved much greater like the ps3, otherwise the 360 will always be limited by this factor no matter how many discs swap solution they bring

makes me a happy ps3 owner here onwards ;-)

[dizzleK]

ditch the arcade. period. they're going to have to go the install route and an hdd is a must.

but don't be fooled, just because devs have extra space doesn't mean they'll use it. why did ID have to chop the pc version of rage? the skys the limit on pc but they're still getting the short stick, just like they do with almost all multiplat games. why didn't ps3 owners get this phantom lost planet 2 content?

put up or shut up, lets see what a multiplat game on ps3 can truly be. make an example of the title and say "see, we couldnt fit these 3 levels on dvd but here they are on blu-ray". they didn't have any problem last gen when xbox got the superior version of every title. what changed now?

[silvacrest]

"ditch the arcade. period"

its to late, it wouldn't make any difference now, there are still a large amount of people who have arcades with no hard drive

micro will have to wait for the next gen to rectify this

[mightydog01]

if you read the story the games coming on 2 discs, and they running in to problems, and the developer ask microsoft if they do something to help with the problem and they said no......looks like progress will be at a stand still or force to do something if developers start bringing top notch games out on ps3 and give microsoft gimp versions then they might sit up and use there brains for once

[Karlnag3]

Their "brains" will just tell them to get timed DLC and everything will be ok.

[hiredhelp]

A TIMED DLC MAN WAKE UP. that dlc could be huge and in size if microsoft will charge you for it.wakeup .

[Karlnag3]

I suggest you hire some help to help you make sense.

[00000000000000000001]

You guys do know that Blu-ray wasn't ready when the 360 was designed. MS was looking at HD-DVD and made a good decision not to use it. Only Sony fan boys have problems with more than 1 disk. I guess they either can't get up off the couch, or figure out with disk is #1 or #2.

[1942]

yeah well the 360 wasn't ready when it released so why not rush blu ray too? also like others have said it cost more when devs have to put games on multiple disc. why would anyone with a brain want multiple disc on a console know n for scratching disc? and lastly this is like the 4th devs haviong problems with it so it isn't only ps3 fanboys genius it is the people making the games. it really is sad how 360 fanboys are such idiots that they will accept these thingsjust out of blind loyalty. i'm glad that they are getting the short end of the stick now with most games because i'm done with games being gimped because these clowns are ok with crap.

[hiredhelp]

microsft new m8 dont u worry.they know everything there sly.

[Lucreto]

I was just looking at the trailer and pity they got rid of the 60fps for 30fps. The 60fps gave it an amazing edge to the gameplay.

Developers have to try and keep it on 2 discs as any more and MS will charge extra.

[C0MPUT3R]

...................
.
Devs have NOT had enough space for years now.
.
Do you think it's just a coincidence that devs have just enough space for their game to fill up a DVD?
.
6.8 gigs is the magical amount of space for an hd game?
.
NO, obviously not. The devs have to trim & cut, recycle assets, compress textures, cut out side areas etc. To get under the 6.8 gb limit.
.
Now the argument is well just ad another disc. The problem is that can only work with a linear game, not an open world game. And 2nd the publisher has to pay a licensing fee per disc, cutting into their profits, and essentially encouraging 3rd party devs to cut content to avoid that 2nd licensing fee. Also encouraging DLC where MS gets another licensing fee off of that too.
.
We have been paying more for less this gen. If you can not see that, you either lack logic or understanding of technology.
.
I also love how MS refuses to do anything about the issue. It really shows they care about the developer, and in the end, the level of quality you the gamer receive.
.
.....................

[raztad]

"Devs have NOT had enough space for years now"

That is true. Even Carmack said, sometime ago, they had to cut RAGE to make it fit in 2 DVDs. DVD splitting seriously limit developer imagination and storytelling. The game need to be done with storage limitations in mind.

What about high quality sound?, that might not be "necessary" but truly enhance the experience. Multiple dubs, like in FFXIII, where the Japanese voice-over was dropped even in the PS3 version for the sake of equality. Keeping with FFXIII, it is pathetically obvios the game was severely affected by the xbox storage restrictions, I'm conviced its linearity (until the 3rd disk) was because the devels tried to minimize swapping. No towns to explore, no side-questing. It is a shame really, and it affected game overall quality.

In conclusion, DVD is a dying format that doesnt make the cut anymore. PCs have the luxury of using DVDs because their HDD, but that is not the case for the xbox360.

[123360]

sent over there tech guys to get the most compressed game ever,how low can they go.this ain,t to do with the game this is about royalties per disc,they basically are saying were here to check what you have to say and see before we give you an answer to the second disc royalties releif fund we have in place.thats what its all about money,if the games good and a well known franchise there give it a free ride other wise its pay time.

[timmyrulz]

I have 67 games for the x360 and out of that only 4 of them have had to use more than one disk. I have been more than happy with the games released this Gen and i dont even mind changing a disk every 20 hours or so. I think blu ray is more of a luxury than a necessity this gen but when it comes to the next Gen then blu ray will deffo be required or digital download

[C0MPUT3R]

...................
.
What you fail to realize is, how much better those game would be if they didn't have size limitations.
.
...................

[LiquifiedArt]

exactly. People need to open their eyes and realize M$ always gives you less and makes you pay more. Their strategy is short-term, where as Sony's is a long-term strategy. This is easily seen in how they acquire studios and build their internal development staff, constantly.

[jetlian]

that when KZ or UC has all the modes and stuff you get from halo or gears

[ranmafandude]

will never say that sony won the format war lol. they are either going to come with some bootleg version of blu-ray or stick with dvd9 next gen lol. aw man can't wait to see this go down in a few years.microsoft is going to try to find a way to get blu-ray without permission from sony and the rest of the companies that developed it.

[shikwan]

I wonder why there's a lack of BluRay games on the PC too?

[strotee]

Because every computer comes with a hard drive? *facepalm*

[shikwan]

So does every single PS3...so Ur point is?

[AK46]

I wandered about that two, since BDD is supposedly unhackable

[Droid Control]

Its become pathetic now. Its 2010 and M$ are still using decades old tech.
I remember the days when on the original machine, 'XBOX' stood for cutting edge hardware and eye watering visual splender.

Oh how times have changed. The 360 is turning into a Wii with every passing day...

[Hades1337]

It's a wonder how Bethesda can fit massive games on DVDs like Oblivion and Fallout, yet games like Castlevania struggle.

[bessy67]

It's because japanese companies are infatuated with lengthy cg cutscenes that aren't in many western games. I mean, in the article kojima says that there aren't any really long cutscenes, but he does say that the final one is 14 minutes. That's long, IMO.

[1942]

open world games aren't that hard to make geniuses. the problem with disc space is based on quality(graphics, physics, sound and amount of content) not only how big the enviorments are. gow3 is 40gigs that is bigger then every open world game so if a dev was to use that much with an open world game it would be far better then oblivion and fallout. anyone can create a big empty world for gamers to run around in. gta: sa has a bigger map then 4 but doesn't have the all the technical things 4 does.

[kraze07]

Hopefully the PC version of Mass Effect 3 won't be gimped because of the Xbox360's aging hardware. Don't get me wrong I like my 360 and have spent countless hours on it in the pass, but stopped playing it over the last couple of years.

[WitWolfy]

We can all clearly see that FF13,Alan Wake And Splinter Cell. Felt the pinch thanks to the DVDs limitations.

You can't tell me a game 4 years in the development can look so average. I refuse to believe that... there was so many stages on Alan Wake where I was like... uuurgh man this 576p really screwed up the game for us HD gamers, and to make it worse, they over polished everything to hide it as well. The nerve, first take away free roam, then rape the graphics with a engine that looked like alone in the dark clone, and let everybody have these dull face aninamtions.

And thank God I got FF13 on PS3 hehehehe
Point is ... those compression tools can only compress so much, before it starts losing quality. And the DVD9 is starting to feel the pinch.... for a loooooooooooong time now

[jlemdon]

I was telling my friends that MS should'v developed Games for HD-DVD!!! Kinda serves them right!

[Why o why]

did you REALLY just ask that...lol

Anyhow devs aint stupid. They get away with what they can. If the limit is 6.8 then so be it....If people are still in 2010 thinking dvd<9 hasnt resulted in the butchery of SOME games then frankly , you're stupid, ignorant or just very naive.

Some will go on defending or attacking the 360's media having less space than last gen until the cows come home but the truth is MS's hands were tied. Blu ray wasnt a viable option for them. What is holding some games being on multiple disks is the genre's and the extra fees incurred per disk. From time a baseball game couldnt fit everything on the 360's disk people should of known. Stadia missing from the 360's fifa from way back...see, many things get brushed under the carpet so some will never know unless devs speak up but at the same time why would devs speak too loudly if that same speaking hurts potential sales. Devs are catering for the lowest denominator and the 360's disk space is the lowest in this hd era. If a disk is anywhere near full then more space was probably needed for example if a disk has 300 meg of space left but the item is 500 then it will be chopped...simple. No point putting that 200 spillage onto another disk therefore they move to the new get out clause which is dlc

[C0MPUT3R]

"Microsoft hands were tied"
.
Microsoft could have made every system sold have a hard drive. So the games could ship with install discs. Thus no space limitations. They didn't need a Blu-ray drive, just a hard drive standard in all systems.

[WitWolfy]

That sounds retarted.

The point of having a console is to jump the loops of installation to begin with. And even if it is installed on the HDD the loading times aren't really improved anyways. In fact some games like Halo 3 for example actually loaded worse when installed on the HDD.

MS jumped the gun. And everything went AWESOME....... for a while... Then demanding fans ASKED for more content.... MORE game for their buck. Which they got.... At a price of other content that had to be stripped and/or to be sold seperatley as DLC. WTF man????

Think about it, MS has done nothing but milk gamers since day one. Expensive online gaming on P2P servers, with accessories being way over priced, because of the Microsoft badge on it. Not to mention Banning people who every November just to bring sales figures up (perfect time for Christmas shopping)!

I remember a time when I use to be excited when MS announced new upgraded IP for their last gen games. And getting excited when they announce a sequel to block buster IP.

Then one day you look at the console and go. You costed me more money thanks to your addons and gimmicks, then what I was prepared to pay in the first place.

Marketing... a PR's way to get you buying shit you never needed in the first place!

[pustulio]

You gotta love the irony of misspelling "retarded".

ahahahahaha

[mcstorm]

I dont see why MS need to look at changing there media this gen as you can install the game onto your 360 or swap dvd's.
I also remember Sony saying at E3 all games will be shiping 2 versions of the game 1 for HD and 1 of 3d so this to me seems like Bluray is not needed as it is still far too big for games and the most we have seen on a 360 game is FF using 3 DVD's and this is all because it has lots of Videos on it rather then game footage.

I think next gen they will have to drop DVD and look at a bigger storage maybe even buy HDDVD tech as this will hold more or less as much as bluray and cost is around about the same per disk.

Do the Sony fan boys not remember having to swap the CD's on the PS1 for games I remember some games having 4 or 5 cds you had to swap but no one seemed to mind doing it then why should they mind doing it now?
I remember havung my Amiga 1200 when I was a kid and it came on 12 floppy disk and I had to swap them every time I picked a different car and track but this is part of gameing.

Both of the consoles have the good points and both have bad points but to me developers saying that they now need more then 8GB of space to put Games on shows they are getting lazy again just like they have done with pc games.

[raztad]

"I dont see why MS need to look at changing there media this gen as you can install the game onto your 360 or swap dvd's."

I dont think someone is suggesting MS change their media, it's too late for that, however MS could issue some policies allowing devs to install the game on hdd. Make their proprietary HDD as cheap as a regular HDD on the market. Ditch the arcade, and drop 2nd or 3rd disk fees. That would help. Still it is not enough, and devels should be no concerned with content being the same in both platform, and allow for custom made games, where the PS3 can enjoy its higher capacity drive.

"even buy HDDVD"

Why HDDVD? that is a dead format. BD is the only way to go.

"Do the Sony fan boys not remember having to swap the CD's on the PS1 for games "

There is a HUGE difference CDs actually were the BD of the time, I mean there was no other storage madia more advanced than CDs, so there was not choice. Coincidentally the CD drive was a key element in sucess of PS1.

[mcstorm]

I Know HDDVD is dead but if they do not want there next device to have bluray why not use HDDVD yest it will not play Bluray movies but I stream all mine any way have done for years have a ps3 too and never used it to play DVDs or Bluray.

There was not a different media to use when the ps1 was out but HDDVD and Bluray were not really about when the 360 came out this is why it is dvd but I dont think its affected the 360 in anyway I think the 360 has done alot better than alot of people have thought it would ever do.

[yewles1]

John Carmack with RAGE all over again.

[divideby0]

yawn... developers went pubic with this last year..
all the BlueRay dissers...egg all over their face.....

[Antan]

"Mercury Steam boss Dave Cox told"

Dave Cox is NOT Mercury Steam boss. C&VG have been sh!te for years.

[hot4play]

Blu-ray is the next logical step.
The 360 is holding back (to some extent) game development this gen. Developers have been complaining about the DVD format...Yeah this is kinda old news and a lot of gamers know about this by now... :)

The power of Blu-ray gives us games like Uncharted, God of War 3, Killzone 2, LBP as well as giving developers the opportunity to add bonus content (even full games) in the disc (see Medal of Honor and Dead Space 2).

In the case of PCs, it's arguable but with consoles, DVDs ARE OBSOLETE. Imagine if people back then said "CDs or DVDs aren't needed let's just stick with cartridges." The same can be said with Blu-Ray. It is needed. I just hope developers discontinue the trend of making PS3 and 360 versions of a game equal and start focusing more on PS3 development and take advantage of the better medium. (eg. EA, Platinum-Vanquish)

[AliTheBrit19]

For the most part we are fine

If we can get games like Red Dead Redemption and Assassins Creed II on the 360 just fine, its obviously down to developer skill, either way, a developer should strive to make games as small as possible in terms of storage

Especially if digital distribution is considered, which it always is at this stage.

Besides, the PS3 has its own problems even with Blu-Ray, forced installs (which to be fair, aren't as big of a problem now as they used to be) and insufferable and constant long updates for games (in comparison to short and quick with the Xbox 360)

[Bhai]

its funny, every six months a developer says about it, its really obvious how 360 is saved only by the price cuts and media support as being the american console which the american press has to defend at all costs... well whatever, this game is going to be a masterpiece, which PC does not have :)

[gano]

Actually that's y kinect is so important.
They can't keep up with bluray, so they push that camera as a new hardware.
Alot of new gen gamers are saying there is nothing wrong with 6.8gigs, but don't realize how incomplete some games have been.
ff13 should have showed them. IT's like some people are on a sinking ship and are tryin to convince you you won't go down with it.
The people clamouring 2 or more disk is ok are the same people saying well the ps1 had it. WTF!?
PS1 over 13yrs ago, that was not an option for 1disk and was impresive yrs ago.
We have an option and moles argue it's fine.
REAL GAMERS WANT ADVANCEMENTS IN MEDIA STORAGE NOT THE SAME/STANDSTILLS IN THE PROCESS.
I'll never buy M$ products.
They are not equal.
They are not the same.
Games are being limited because of one company holding full gameplay back because of disk.
People still pay 60 for a dvd, damn.
Actually some of the people debating it and posting articles about games, aren't real gamers!
That's y the articles have that i don't care attitude.

[bessy67]

If you read the article, you'd see that you don't even need to swap discs.

"He revealed that the first LOS Xbox disc will offer an install option on the in-game menu, allowing gamers to play the full title off the second disc."

Finally, someone using the xbox game install feature right.

[Dance]

red dead and gta4 says hi an both games run at 720 native on the 360

[webeblazing]

yea its so many different environments in rdr lol. im glad some devs dont like gamers running on treadmills.

[e-p-ayeaH]

Its not a problem its just inconvenient thats´s all

HDDVD gives more profit now than ever for MS they would be dumb to loose money on a new format and since they have new halo/gears titles comin up they cant afford to lose money

[Henry Cain]

But 360 fans say blu-ray is only for movies.

[Trroy]

Here's the real issue that hurts games (it's not swapping):

2-3 DVDs cost more to produce than 1 Blu-Ray disc. Publishers make more money by producing Blu-Ray games, than multi-disc DVD games -- so they push their developers to fit the game onto a SINGLE disc. That hurts the game. A lot. Thank MS for downgrading many of the multiplats, heck even their own exclusives, this gen.

[Dark_king]

I hate when people say just adding another disc makes up for the difference.It doesn't.People don't seem to understand that the max size of the 360s dvd9 is 6.8 gigs. So if I made a rpg I have make my game engine small enough that there is room left for other data.So say the game engines 3 gigs that leaves only 3.8 gigs per disc for game data.Now on Bluray the limit is many times higher the game engine can be built very large for exp 10 gigs with the rest going to the game data.

[blackpanther25]

but tell me why they released the co-op pack later for free? They even advertised the free co-op dlc in the game box (i still have the slip).

Disc limitations

[Lazyeye79]

I remember when the PS3 released and the 360 fanboys where laughing at us for having to install games that would take like 3gbs and now they say (probably quoting someone) "multiple discs is fine, I can just install to the HDD"

Strange how when the PS3 does something its bad, but when the 360 does the same thing its amazing. 360 fanboys are retarded. But again the PS3 leads!

[hennessey86]

thats fangirls for you double standards all the way. You still have to install games on ps3 now but it isnt a problem

[hennessey86]

but will microsoft do anything about it NO, the fact that the hddvd drive was external and not internal says everything and if microsoft add blu-ray thats probably going to add 80 to 100 pounds to the price of the 360 which is unrealistic imo. I do think microsoft will either use blu-ray or some other form of large storage in there next console though and to be honest theres only one game ive played where ive had to swap discs was mass effect 2 and it wernt that much of a problem. I have a ps3 aswell so if it came to the choise of buying a multi plat on 1 disc or 2 it wouldnt matter as i would just go with the best version of the game regardless of the amount of discs

[gypsygib]

Devs should just create games that require an instal for 360