OXCGN: "While many so-called ‘gamers’ (or what we tend to term hardcore gamers to be precise) seem to be having huge issues with it, there are tens of thousands of Australians that will embrace the system with open arms, no pun intended."
I don't have a problem with Kinect. If there isn't anything that inspires me I simply won't buy it. As for the more $ coming into gaming because of casual or non-gamers buying the new tech, I wonder if the dollar train has left the station now that Wii has been out for so long capturing those buyers???
"Gamers Need To Look Beyond Themselves If ‘so-called gamers’ bothered to take their blinkers off, put on some proper glasses and got rid of the ‘tunnel-vision’ and took a non-biased look at the situation, they would see this quite clearly" really gotta support it cause i owe it ta the "gaming" industry... cough ms... sigh XboxOZ360 (teh aptly named author) you sound like a fanboi. Tho I was thinking about approving this i just cant sites got enough of ya already.
I didn't read it that we NEED to buy it but that we need to see it for what it is and how it will help the industry as a whole. There's so much hate for it when really it is a different market.
110% correct, noo ones saying, hey gamers, YOU need to buy this. What its saying is, stop the hate and see WHY there's such new tech becoming available, that is of course, if you want to see more games made in the distant future. It reminds me of the old "head in the sand" thing . . . The writer above takes it personally and does not READ the article or how it is written, simply sees words in a title and 'assumes' the worst. Typical of the current generation or two of gamers these days.
The fact that there has to be an "argument for Kinect" shows that it really is worthless. Casuals may or may not like it, but I'm not a casual gamer, Kinect is obviously not for me, and Microsoft's focus on Kinect shows that they don't care about hardcore gamers. For gamers to defend it really shows their blind fanboyism. I never saw such devotion from gamers to a product that was not aimed at them. Just the opposite in fact: when the Nintendo Wii and many of the games on it ended up being casual, the hardcore audience revolted and began to hate the Wii. I mean at first, 360 gamers defended it by saying there was going to be hardcore games, but now that isn't the case, so they defend it because...why?
The difference between the Wii and rest of the industry was that there hardly was anything for the hard core gamers. Arguably, when there was nobody bought the games. The 360 on the other hand has a huge selection of hard core gamers already and some of the biggest games are coming in the next 9 months for the 360. I don't see any plans for Kinect beyond that time frame either, so I don't see how that means MS "don't care about hardcore gamers" anymore. Care to elaborate? Then again, I don't think I have ever heard you say anything positive about MS.... maybe that is the reason.
reads more like a bleeding ad for ms then anything else "Gamers need things like Kinect or Move because by allowing game developers to build family orientated games that bring in huge amount annually, it helps bolster the publishers coffers thus enabling them to fund other new and or innovative IP games that would otherwise sit on the back shelf and possibly never see the light of day due to lack of funding. Publishers are losing millions annually, but through such things as Kinect, and Move they will have the opportunity to venture into new territory, build their bank balances, make investors happy, who by the way actually fund the new IP’s in advance, because their portfolios are being bolstered by family orientated gaming via such things as Kinect, Move and 3D gaming enhancements" poor industry is worth billions more than ever but really this is the deal breaker omg pls save those devs buy kinect n all the shovelware they throw at ya... Weak dude kinect will flop like the power glove Im guessing. Either way life will go on n devs will live n die by the games they make n the people they do business with.
its ok. gwave is entitled to his opinion as this is all what this site is about anyway. We all have different views on things. I am man enough to respect what sony is doing even if a ps3 fan may not be the same for MS. What really gets me is the continued effort of the move crowd to insist that kinect is the same and doesnt offer ANYTHING compelling that would make it a worthy purchase. In a move article I may criticize the comments but not the actual unit. I think it is different and deserves its own respect. I like how it can be adapted for existing games and it will depend on how they use it for future titles that will make or break it. I have said this before but Move is an afterthought. Essentially ideas sony had previously are finding their way back into the spotlight because there are those who just didnt know. They think its new and defining the industry as moving forward. They dont realize that what ms has done may not be new as well from the perspective of camera based control but they refuse to acknowledge that it is new to ms. They make the comparison based on previous entries from sony and think that because it is a camera it must be the same with little to offer in the future growth of the industry. motion was ALWAYS a futuristic idea since the days of pong. We also are getting back into 3d and you add both and you are stepping into what was only perceived in the scifi movies years ago. The criticism this device is receiving is really not directed at it but at MS as a whole and their entry into video gaming. This just happens to be the current scape goat. Many dont even know of a gaming world before sony. That may be why they choose not to acknowledge nintendo either. Regardless of the childish nature of the nintendo characters, they helped forge this industry and this is the thanks they get. An argument for kinect isnt really an argument but a bitch fest for these gamers to show their hypocrisy. What isnt good enough for them isnt good enough for anybody in their frame of mind. I like gaming. I like it allot. Perhaps to much to restrict my views to one side or another. I believe in the notion that if you dont have one, you cant comment. I have a 360 and a wii and a ps3 so I CAN comment and share my views on what drives me as it pertains to gaming. If I like move more than kinect or vice versa I have that right to share because I have the systems to which it relates. Its ok to dislike something because it doesnt appeal to you but to ridicule others that have a difference of opinion is pure stupidity. I am making this statement here because I see it to many times in other threads and I am tired (really..bed time for me) and you are someone who I could relate as you seem to have an open mind. I may be labeled a hypocrite because i can be in one thread and say something and then be in another and say something else but that is my right as someone who supports this industry from all sides. I will not pander to those who are one sided by choice. I am big enough to respect someones views so long as they can be equally respectful in a civil manner. ha ha...jeez I must be tired. I just said civil here on n4g.
great reply Darth bubble up I agree with you 100%
So basically this article is saying that gamers should have supported Haze and Too Human, not because of how great the games where, but for how great the sequels could have been. Yes I'm stretching the logic a bit but it's basically the same argument. Supporting a broken product is not how you support technical innovation and financial stability in the gaming industry. In the long run, gamers will remember how they where burned and will not be so quick to purchase future products... for example car buyers and Toyota as of the past 6 months. Also, although this is supposed to be an article about Kinect, why is the PSMove included in the defense of Kinect (at least on these forums). The products are very different even though they are both motion systems. Of the two, the PSMove actually has lots of Hardcore games. So to say that Sony is focused on only the casual gamers with the PSMove is something of a disservice to the last 10 years of R&D Sony has put into making sure their motion system works for the hardcore as well as the casuals. HADUKENS FTW!!!
This article is saying that while you might not like Kinect, it's not being put out for you, it's being put out for the same crowd that bought Wii Fit. There's a lot of money to be gotten from those people, and Microsoft knows that Kinect isn't good enough for core games, so they are putting out Kinect to capture those casual players and figuring that the core gamers will be content to stick with Halo and Gears of War.
Sony is attempting to bridge the gap between casuals and core gamers with move. Microsoft's one and only motivation with kinect is to take a chunk of that casual pie away from nintendo. It was evident from their press conference that kinect was their subject of focus for the remainder of the forseeable future. They are turning their backs on the gamers responsible for helping them weather all of the hardware issues and the ps3 tidal wave. It's clear that microsoft isn't as in tune with their audience as sony is.. I think thats where alot of this hatred for kinect is steming from..
Dollar train definitely hasn't left, it just has more stops now. Having a new platform to release on won't mean the products won't sell. Many casual products have relatively simple tech, which is easy to make cross platform compared to major engines like iDtech or custom engines. Where it might take Naughty Dog a year to port a game (just an example, aware they are exclusive) because it's more hardware dependent, casual developers have a much easier time porting across because even if it's not running efficiently it's still running visibly the same on all platforms. Having an extra 50 million people to sell to between Move and Kinect will do nothing but help the industry.
I do wish some gamers would look past what they think things like Kinect are, and see the 'bigger picture' . .but it seems many can't. Sad really, because if we want more new games that core gamers can play unveted, then we NEED such things as Kinect and Move and dare I say, even 3D gaming, even if it will cause many side effects with gamers.
I think you're missing the big picture. You can't sell a dream as a dream. The Kinect isn't a mysterious product anymore. It is what it is. Looking at what it opens the door for is no reasoning for a purchase. The Wright Brothers didn't mass produce their first airplane and sell it based off of what Boeing does now. Kudos to everyone trying to move forward in technology. But you won't get a sale from me until you make a product that does what you dream of.
I think the idea of Kinect is way ahead of the technology (read: it doesn't work as well as it should), but you are absolutely right that MS is not targeting the "hardcore gamers." Kinect is all about family time fun. Kinect Adventures will be fun for people playing with their relatives at Christmas, and extremely boring for the person playing alone. The hardcore gamers are upset because they got excited about all the things that "Project Natal" could bring to their games, but now they are left hanging as MS chases after Suzy Soccer-Mom and her daughter.
Look here's the issue microsoft painted this big bright picture of natal. They had people believing that there was going to be a whole new generation of exciting games that utilized full body motion control, voice recognition, and the ability to scan objects into the game.. As of right those are all unfullfilled promises.. All I see is a small catalog of uber casual games that we've already seen on the wii.. Factor in that there has been a whole slew of videos and reports of kinect not working properly and you have an overhyped underperforming piece of tech that needs work.. But as usual they are rushing it to market to try and steal sony's thunder.. Thats all microsoft seems to care bout is sticking it to sony..
There is no argument, people saw it at E3 if you where impress by their showing then by all means buy it and enjoy it and if you weren’t then don’t buy simple as that, there are still many awesome games coming in the fall that you could spend those 150 dollars or simply buy natal or whatever is call, most of us already made our minds at E3 and the final point was the price now we know the price and the games that will be there by the end of the year, is the same with the move… As for me ill wait till 2011 probably E3 2011 and see the games then and the progress and by then there will probably a price cut and better games for both natal and move…
But you see, that's it in a nut shell, the whole idea of Kinect (Move etc) is not aimed at you, but at a completely different market, but "gamers' take it onboard as if it is aimed at them specifically. The games made for Kinect won't suit the core gamer, but they will suit the family members who simply want something different for the family to be involved in as a unit. NOt as individuals or even in groups over Live/PSN for that matter. Things like Kinect are aimed at a totally different market, which was evident at E3's special event, which we attended, so we saw it first hand, rather than the somewhat twisted reporting by some gaming media.
What I saw at E3 enlist the games they where aimed at the casual but other features like playing movies with voice or the minority report type features I like but the games are not there so I won’t buy until I see good games for it, the move on the other hand already has support for mayor titles and we already saw some cold things at E3 but I still won’t buy it ether until next year at the earliest…
I have nothing against Kinect or move or Wii for that manner. But the gamers i think, feel they are the one aimed for. Cause MS made a big, very big show of Kinect at E3, and don't tell me that that big show was aimed for the casual. It was aimed at "profesional" journalist, devs and hardcore gamers. They are the one's watching, writing and talking about E3. Why was E3 filled with Kinect if it wasent for them to see, and why do they have to read all about it on every gaming site on the web, if they are not the one's aimed for. So now the true gamers, are talking about Kinect, but there is nothing for them to talk about, cause it all for the casual...For now. I understand if the hardcores are feeling a little cheated, and don't know what to say as long its all Skitles and dance in the news. They want to see what all the buzz at E3 was about..
You've got yourself convinced that this is aimed at the casuals but you and I both know that with out the core adopting the tech early its not going anywhere period. Btw move is being targeted to all gamers. Sony knows their core audience has always and will always butter their bread so to speak.. For microsoft to solely focus on the casual crowd is a mistake that they will pay for..
That's where I think you're wrong! Sony never said that they were strictly aimed at the casual crowd, for anyone that owns a ps3 they would already know that there are already plenty off casual titles on the ps3. Sony has just chosen to enhance the playability of those titles. The ps3 is known for pushing the envelope when it comes to premoting and expanding different genre, whether it be hardcore or, casual . The ps3 fanbase is made up of variety. The xbox 360 console is the one that has the bigger job of convincing the casual as well as the hardcore, that it is willing to shed it's hardcore exterior and be known for more than the console to go to for fps. Will kinects help in that transition? Possible, but only if it can overcome the hurdles that are impeding its performance.
I hope the Star Wars Kinect game is half decent fun. I don't need a game to be 'hardcore', just has to be fun.
Wii has shown me how excited I should be about motion gaming in its present form. In other words, I'm not buying Wii, Kinect, or Move. I bought that You're in the Movies game for Xbox Vision. Even when I got it to work well, it was only fun for a few minutes at a time, and its completely boring when gaming alone. Kinect may be ok for parties, but if your playing by yourself you get bored quick. It's going to take some real convincing to change my stance.
Let's not forget that this same "hardcore" fanbase thought that the wii wasn't worth buying and based the shit out of it. Now look at it, on pace to be the best selling console ever. Nintendo hit it right on the money targeting the casuals and has been, without a doubt, the smartest this generation. I'm not saying that Kinect will have the same success, but I'm not going to doubt it neither.
If you're a Nintendo stock holder, you should be happy about this. The "hardcore" fanbase still thinks Wii isn't worth buying and are bashing it. Even though most of us bought one, it's most likely collecting dust due to poor quality software and the technical limitations of the hardware. Wii, Kinect, and Move are the pop music of the gaming world. It's the lowest common denominator, dumbed down for the masses, designed for milking money and pisses off the "hardcores".
i'm tired of the hardcore/casual shit. you know why companies make this stuff? because the casuals BUY games, the "hardcore" buys cod and rents/pirates everything else. hate the way gaming is going? then blame yourselves for renting a game while casuals are out buying games by the boat load.
I agree with several of the argument points, but the finalised price will be too steep for hardcore gamers to give it a go. You can buy a new 360 (arcade unit) on sale for the same price! As is usual with these things, a lot of gamers will be waiting for a drop in dollars. Or the product fails completely and is on clearance by November next year
Ahh, but the aim of the Kinect is as a bundle, the entire unit, X360 S and Kinect and one Kinect game is $US495 (or $450? not sure), making it a very viable item for the newer, family gamer. When you ad up the cost of say the 4 hand units for a Move game requiring 2 units per person, then it comes into perspective . . . AGain, these items, Kinect and Move specifically, are aimed at acquiring NEW customers rather than adding to existing customer base. @ yess Just out of curiosity, were you in attendance at the Kinect Pre- E3 event? If you were, you would have seen most oif the attention being spebtr on family celebrities, home show guests, ppl like Billy Crystal, and many other, even John Travolta's wife and those like her were all being interviewed. Where were the game dev and game jurnos, well, not many game jurnos were there actually, we managed to get in at the very last minute, and developers from Ubi, and even higher ranking dev like Cliff Blezsinski were there, but not being paid any attention to. In fact, CLiff was quite toiked off that he was simply just another face in the crowd, rather than being made a fuss of, no offense to Cliff of course, he's a great guy, but they do get used to being the enter of attention at events. But they weren't at THAT event. In the pre-event game demo room, before the show actually started, 90% of the ppl playing the games using Kinect were in fact, general celebs and mainstay media, NOT game media or game jurnos. We were relegated to the general auditorium to await the show. Even the japanese dev responsible for Ninja Gaiden, DOA series etc, was just another face in the crowd, and seen wandering the floor aimlessly looking for attention, as he always like to have - attention that is. Kinect was not and is not aimed at the core-gamer, or the game jurnos at the event, in fact, it was a bad idea inviting them actually, as they have preconcieved ideas prior to the announcement . . . Whereas the 'general media, TV shows and the like were all over it . . . from a family frame of mind. Unless you were there, it's hard to actually comment on things as a point of fact, because, unless you have experienced it, you can't really comment, no offense meant mate, we're just talking here, just pointing out a fact . . We were there, we saw the ppl, and saw the game dev just wandering around etc, while all the celbs were having a ball.
I hear you, and no! I was not there, but i was in the background watching it all in my comfy sofa. What i mean is, im not a casual or any of the ten guys with me. We watched and talked, like it was something aimed for us, cause no wife, mother, uncle or whatever was watching this like we did. They made the pre show and thats fine with me, if that was for the above group. But they did continue in the press con the day after, and again it filled most of that show to, which then should be aimed for the core and press, if i am not mistaken. So obviusly we thought, it was aimed for us, cause it was filling most of that show to, and it's been all over the gaming sites since which the casual is not reading or watching. All in all i just wanna say that they should have brought something else for the core at the press con instead of showing what they allready had shown the casual at the preshow, cause if you cut out all the Kinect stuff from the presscon there was not much left for the core, other than the games we allready knew about. You have no more bubbles left to comment. So let's just leave it for now, i did get what you said. And know we can only sit back and see what is going to happen in the future.
I think this article has some good points, but I disagree with something MS has been claiming about Kinect. It doesn't really REMOVE the controller barrier, it just moves it back a bit. The crowd that will be playing Kinect games will still feel alienated by any game that puts a controller in their hands. Kinect will add casual gamers to the 360's install base, but it will not convert them to playing Halo or Gears of War. There will effectively be 360 gamers and Kinect gamers, with little crossover happening. Maybe it doesn't need to bring people into core gaming experiences, but I think that would be better from a business and an industry standpoint because it increases your install base for those core titles. They will have to make more games instead of reeling in more users to the games they already have.
It's the old removing the barrier to entry crap again.The Wii does not control that well,many games are still complex and you compensate for the weak controls often. Pads were becoming so familiar to many that the numbers of people unable to use them was diminishing. Now we are told we "need" a previous generation or those of my generation who don't game.The thing is my childrens generation are becoming very familiar with pads.My 5 year old chooses PS3 over Wii often. My analogy for it,is cars.People don't buy the easy to drive car in the UK.They choose one with gears.Autos are still seen as inferior by many(not true in US,I know)because gears are more engaging. Pads are the same.The complexity of control helps give it flavour. The Eyetoy showed how using hand gestures,waving arms,legs etc is fun for a short period but gets boring quickly.Balancing difficulty for hand gestures is not easy and failing,inaccurate controls are often the only thing that trips you. The other thing is gamers are geeks,they like being superior with tech.These physical systems give superiority to those who excel at the physical ie people that already surpass geeks the many things. Kinect better not be the furure because that would be less rich and varied in control of games than what we already have.
The most important thing he mentions is that it will bring in more money letting developers and publishers invest in riskier games like they could before the recession. I can't wait to see what happens when more creative development starts picking up again on a wider scale. Even if it makes a bunch of bad games, those bad games could have awesome concepts that could be perfected by more skilled studios.
I won't buy kinect because i love using Remotes to play my games. Im a very lazy gamer indeed right?
Right now, the only thing that Kinect is aimed at helping is Microsoft's bottom line. But because of Microsoft's lack of first party studios making games, the blame can all be put on the developers for lack of excellent titles for Kinect. There's a reason why MS makes bank, the really know how to play EVERYBODY.
Yeah like casuals are thrilled to buy the same games that they own for their wii and buy a 360 bundle. After the disaster showing at Macy's were the Microsoft representatives did not had the knowledge of kinect, poorly set up, and the controls not working according to the hand gestures delivered by the gamer.........
While it may not be for the core, Kinect is advancing video game technology and that by itself should be reason enough not to hate on it. And while I will never play a game that brings me off the couch entirely, I do imagine the Kinect input can eventually be used to augment the controller.
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