Blu-Ray Review

From projectorcentral.com : "They say the outcome of a war is not determined on the battlefield, but rather in the strategy rooms long before the first shot is fired. And so it is with the great "format war" between the new high definition video disc rivals HD-DVD and Blu-ray. From our vantage point, it appears that HD-DVD has already won."

[Theonetheonly]

I Knew it but i couldnt prove it

hmmm good read!!

[Islandkiwi]

I had no idea load times were so long for both types of players. What's the reason for that?

[DC RID3R]

like i've said b4, $1000 bucks for compressed mpeg2 is seriously taking the piss!!!!

does SONY think the entire population are punks!?!?!

if i want a mpeg2 movie, i'll just download it, but y bother when i can download mpeg 4 ones????

SONY - FIX UP!!!!!!

[achira]

a bit biased the article, especially if you know that the blue ray quality is indeed better than hd-dvd. go to a shop and look yourself.

[MONTY 187]

I would agree but i have heard all these points about the differences before!! The load times are interesting though. Aint heard about that b4!

[THELANDSOFSAND]

i went, i saw, and i chose the HD-DVD by toshiba, because it looked OBVIOUSLY better than blu-ray. Sony TV too!

[jib]

i think you're the one whos biased.

[Captain Tuttle]

I don't know why Sony is risking so much with Blu-Ray. The PS3 would be a great machine w/o Blu-Ray. If Blu-Ray fails, PS3 fails...it's the only reason it's so expensive.

[achira]

what is the correlation between blua ray fails and the ps3 fails ??? there is no. blue-ray is for games, period.

[Fat Onion]

If Blu Ray fails. Sony will have to make blu ray players AND disc specifically for the PS3 only.

This may keep the cost high since they are not in large mass production.

At the $499-$599 price point, I don't think playstation 3 will sell as fast as ps2.

ALSO... the PS3 will loose its main advantage over the Xbox 360 making the X360 seem like a much better value.

[Wipy1838]

Until Sony and his player goes out to the market, a do a fair comparision, the sony player will suport mpg4 and v1
http://www.sonystyle.com/is...

[slugg]

like it says in the article, all Blu-ray movies right now are ENCODED in Mpeg 2 because of problems manufacturing the 2-layer, 50mb discs. Mpeg 4 and Vc-1 will NOT FIT a full-size HD movie on a 25mb disc, so until Sony fixes this manufacturing problem, Blu-ray movies CANNOT and WILLNOT be as high quality as HD-DVD is RIGHT NOW. So even in the future, when Blu-Ray does catch up to HD-DVD in quality, it will still cost TWICE AS MUCH. Sony was willing to concede Microsoft a year head start with the 360, but the can't afford to let HD-DVD have a huge head start, as well. So they release Blu-Ray BEFORE IT IS READY because if they lose this battle, they are in deep sh1t. Couple this with ANY problems related to the PS3 launch (Delayed again, not enough working units by launch date, or, God forbid, problems with the cheap BLu-Ray drives in the PS3 soon after launch) and Sony could be seriously fu@#ed!

[4me2]

The other way around. MPEG2 produces bigger files then MPEG4, h.264 or VC1.It is not even possible to stream 1080p 60 frames/sec with MPEG2 - not enough bandwidth. For 1080p/60 you need MPEG4. Why they did not use it......when the movies when to production final spec for BD have not finalized yet. Manufacturing, distribution takes months not days.

[TheMART]

"The result: a night and day difference. The HD-DVD image was much higher in contrast and showed beautiful detail in high resolution that was completely lost in the DVD. It was smoother, cleaner, and much more three-dimensional. The standard DVD looked surprisingly dull and grainy in comparison. This was true despite the fact that the U-571 DVD is actually a much better than average video transfer.

This dramatic improvement in image quality was apparent across all HD-DVDs we have seen thus far. From the outset we were happily surprised by the substantial improvement in image quality being delivered by the $500 Toshiba HD-DVD player. And after investing $1000 for the Samsung BD-P1000, we were expecting to see at least comparable results. After all, the player is twice the money, and the discs are encoded in the same 1080p resolution format. How different could it be?

Quite different, as it turns out. The Blu-ray launch delivered a rude surprise—picture quality that is moderately better than that available on standard DVD, but not rising to the level of anything one could call high definition. We viewed The Fifth Element, Terminator, and The House of Flying Daggers side by side in their DVD and Blu-ray versions, deriving the same results from each test: the Blu-ray discs showed somewhat better contrast and detail over their DVD counterparts. But the difference was not nearly as dramatic as the comparisons between DVD and HD-DVD. Moreover, none of the Blu-ray discs matched the higher quality of the HD-DVDs."

[Jay da 2KBalla]

Hey doesnt that last paragraph soundd exactly like what real deal said about blu-ray movie titles?

[TheMART]

BetaBluRay is lost. PSZero = BetaBR Player = doomed also

[Wipy1838]

http://www.pioneerelectroni...

[Wipy1838]

For me, It's not a Blu Ray vs HD DVD comparision, it's about Samsung Blue Ray player vs Toshiba HD DVD player comparision

[CAPS LOCK]

it might of been the player, i would of belived this article if the sony blu-ray player was against the torshiba one.

that would of been better since they both invented each one.

[Bozworth]

Maybe I am wrong but I don't think that sony invented a blu ray player, isn't the blu ray drive in the PS3 made by samsung? Therefore probably the same drive as the player used. Just like Microsofts add on HD-DVD drive is made by Toshiba.

[MySwordIsHeavenly]

Guys...DON'T READ THIS ARTICLE!

Go to your local Best Buy and watch Blu-ray...then, go somewhere like...walmart maybe (best buy has dropped hd-dvd because it KNOWS how superior blu-ray is) and watch hd-dvd. How can you even compare them? Blu-ray looks a HECK of a lot better! Why's everyone lying?

[ironwolf]

HD-DVD is on one end cap and Blu-Ray is on the next one. You can see them both.

One of the sales guys told me the HD-DVD is out selling the Blu-Ray about 4 to 1.

[Moostache]

Blu-Ray is lucky to MATCH HD-DVD, but I have yet to see anything on it that EXCEEDS HD-DVD...

PS3 is going to do very well as a Blu-Ray player, with a HUGE caveat...early adopters looking for a cheap Blu-Ray drive will get them but if they have ANY reliability issues (similar to the DVD drive problems in the early PS2's) then word will get around fast that it is not a good idea to buy them for movies.

Quite frankly, I have tired of this whole debate already and I root for someone to lose and lose royally just so I can have a unified format and move forward. Since Sony is last to the party, they are currently the ones I root against from a selfish view - I haven't spent a dime on them yet. However, in the end quality will win over all else and I will probably end up with one of eah anyway...damn lack of patience on my end...lol.

[PS360PCROCKS]

I went to walmart and saw HD-DVD and it looked great, it was in the MIDDLE of the aisle in the electronics section with a huge 50 inch TV sitting on a bunch of TV'S they were also trying to push, and Blu-ray was nowhere to be seen, maybe their not selling it?

[gspang123]

I can't believe such a ridiculous statement was even made here. Obviously from all this other feedback we at least know that some people know whats going on. No HD-DVD in Best Buy, HA! Nothing couldbe further from the truth.

[THELANDSOFSAND]

Go Blur-Ray!

[amrasmord]

I think that this time around, Blu-ray is gonna win. Why? Because of PS3. People who buy PS3 for gaming are also buying a BD player and people who dont want to play games are still gonna buy a PS3 because its 400-500$ cheaper. Back in the day, all Sony had were beta-max players, now they have a game console and BD players to play the HD movies on.

[THELANDSOFSAND]

yes, its the beta-max 2.0

[Chronical]

Yes, in a way i believe Sony is planning it that way so that they sell PS3. But unfortuantly I still think Sony is going to fail

[jedicurt]

I would like to let all of the people out there who keep calling Blu-ray the beta-Blu-ray, and betamax 2.0 something that they might not know.

I have both a vhs and a beta player, and quite a few beta tapes still (don't ask why) and i'm sorry to say but beta was the better format when compared to quality. so calling Blu-ray the betamax 2.0 might be taken out of the context inwhich you intend because to me, the way i read it is that you agree that Blu-ray is a better format even if it doesn't win

[Chronical]

Not this time around. It seems its not as good and less popular

[4me2]

Both formats support the same codecs MPEG-4's H.264/AVC; and VC-1, a codec based on Microsoft's Windows Media 9 plus Blu-ray MPEG2. At some point picture quality will be the same on both formats.It looks like Blu-ray was rushed to the market. Either they have problems with dual-layer disk production or they have to use MPEG2 because at the time when current BD titles went to production(March or April) Final Specs have not been yet finalized

Also for movies to be in HD quality they have to be shot on HD equipment or they have to undergo frame by frame digital restoration while being transfer from the film. It took between 9 and 22 months (I don't remember which know number is correct so if anybody knows please post) Mr Coppola to transfer "Goodfellows" to digital format. Goodfellows is consider to the best HD quality title as of now.It is picture perfect.
For example if you would transfer VHS home movies to DVD just because is on DVD it doesn't mean that it is DVD quality.

So for now Toshiba has done better job price wise and was smart enough to make sure their their first releases are actually HD quality. Though Toshiba's HD-A1 is subsidized by them. If it comes to hardware production cost of both format HD-DVD is about 10 to 20% cheaper.

[Moostache]

Goodfellas by Martin Scorsesse
or
The Godfather by Francis Ford Coppola?

As far as I know it must be Goodfellas because I haven't heard of an HD transfer of the Godfather movies yet...of course, I could be wrong...

[4me2]

You absolutely right... sorry ... and great that somebody is actually watching ....

[Jay da 2KBalla]

Very good article and its good to hear the truth. So Hd-dvd is kicking blu-ray's ass and microsoft will have a 10-12 million unit lead by the end of the year. Damn sony. Just damn

[Watapata]

Microsoft will not have anything near a 10-12 million unit lead by the end of the year. To say that you'd be assuming that not a single PS3 is sold this year. Microsoft isn't even claiming that, they claim that they'll have 10 million units in the channel by the time PS3 launches. However, it should not be hard to admit at all that, at least initially, the PS3 is going to sell at a quicker rate than the 360 as brand new, competing, products tend to. The only question is how quickly Sony can get more units into the channel after the initial shipment to take advantage of the unusually high demand typical of a product launch. if Sony meets their initial shipment projects you are talking about roughly 2 million PS3's to 10-12 million 360's by the end of November. It would be absolute folly to think that the PS3 does not sell out the entire initial shipment by the end of November, as well as the shipments immediately following that likely through until April and March, just as the 360 did at launch. Realistically, over that time frame the PS3 will likely sell at a higher rate than the 360 over that entire time frame, closing the gap further. At that point things will start to slow down, bringing the two consoles more in line at sales rate. The question then becomes which will be able to maintain a slightly higher rate than the other.

[ACE]

lol people here who mention beta ray in ps3 this and that lol ARE YOU PEOPLE STUPID?....

DO YOU THINK ITS GONA BE A GOOD QUALITY DRIVE + LASER ? .....

NO ITS NOT GONA BE GOOD QUALITY COS THEY CANT AFORD TO PUT AN EXPENSIVE DRIVE IN THERE LOL ...

YOU SONY DROIDS ARE FUNNY .... KEEP DREAMING!!!!!

[Bozworth]

This really could spell disaster for Sony because their drive is built in. Sure sony could still use the drive for games but so many PS3 fans defenses for the price was for the ability to play blu ray movies. Well if the movie companies see it getting far less support than HD-DVD then they will switch to the more supported format for money gains and then the entire reason for the higher priced console has gone out the window. Sony will have to make a new one with a different drive if they want to also play the HD movies. That was very smart on Microsoft's part because either way the format war goes they can switch without revamping the console itself, just bring out another add on.

[pRo loGic II]

I can say you have Pro logic too, the "DVD" is well known and people are comfortable with DVD, the name of the new formate will win it alone. Toshiba makes a hell of a product(EVERTHING THEY MAKE) and they're getting very popular.

[ironwolf]

One thing I've never seen mentioned here (it may have been and I missed it) is that HD-DVDs can be produced on the same equipment as DVDs with only realativly inexpensive modifications; whereas Blu-Ray is sufficiently different from the original DVDs that a complete replacement of production equipment is required, equipment mods simply won't do. This is one of the reasons that HD-DVDs can be and appearently are cheaper. Their price does not have to recapture a massive capital investment.

[Dragonopolis]

I recall the big news was how well betamax peformed over VHS. However, we all know betamax got shut out by the industry. HD-DVD is not an open standard it is someone elses propriety standard so what's the difference? VHS had the backing of the market and I'm sorry folks so does Blu-ray.

HD-DVD may or may not be the better format (you really have to give both formats a year to work out the kinks) - it doesn't matter.

What matters is; who is kissing Hollywood's/Movie Industry arses.

One answer.......... Blu-ray

I would wait til more Blu-ray players hit the market before tossing it out as a viable format.

Also, to HD-DVD lovers, its not the picture its the industry standard that gets adopted...

Don't get burned like all the Betamax lovers did; follow Hollywood/Movie Industry Tech News and watch what format they prefer before making any rash buying decisions.

My best advice would be to not buy a Stand Alone HD Movie player this year/holiday season until the dust settles.

As for PS3 owners......... if for some reason HD-DVD wins don't worry. PS3 games will benefit from the huge amount of storage available (PS3 will read dual layer blu-ray disc if needed).

I like the PS3 concept but I grew up in a Commodore/Amiga generation of cheap computing.

I applaud Sony for trying to bring back Poor man Computing and I hope they fully support Linux. After all, everybody dismiss the Commodore as nothing more than an expensive video game machine so I'm sure if Sony gets its way the industry will just blow it off as a cheap Poorman's PC. (How many $400-$600 dollar PCs do you know that can play games as beautifully and (key word) "smoothly" as an Xbox 360 or upcoming PS3. None! Most negative news isn't coming from gamers its the PC industry. Microsoft and Sony got them running scared.

What would happen if a $500 dollar console could run our games nearly as good as a PC and fulfill all our other computing needs as well ( but cost up to a $1000 less). PCs are still business machines they are not consumer machines. PCs are built to satisfy what Businesses want not consumers. Everybody laughs at Sony but don't think for a second that Microsoft isn't thinking the same thing.

I wouldn't be the programmer today if I hadn't started played around on my Commodore....

Oh! I almost forgot, the PS3 appears to play and display video games almost as well as my PC and a heck of a lot cheaper - got to love it.

Got to go. Need to get back to my Xbox 360 (wink!)

[THELANDSOFSAND]

Poor mans Pc would be for $249 from Hp. Sony just don't give a damn!

[4me2]

If Sony is smart and make PS3 hacker/mod friendly that also would be also a boost.
And by hacker friendly I don't mean breaking BD Copy Protection or doing malicious stuff but just being able to run your own software. This is like free R&D.

For people that are not familiar with programming just go sourceforge.net and you can practically find any app, source code for whatever needs you may have. And it is free.

[Dragonopolis]

Can that Poorman PC display and play games as good as an Xbox 360 or PS3. No! When push comes to shove I'll place my bet on better gaming experience for cheap over better (or is it any better?) Word/Data Processing any day.

[FeralPhoenix]

My, how fast things have changed! I remember when Blu-ray was suppose to be the superior HD format, now HD DVD is reportedly suppose to be better looking right now. Everyone should go to Best Buy like I did a few weeks ago and see for themselves, I still say that they look almost identical, but seeing is believing, right? Dragonopolis still seems to think that Blu-ray will be the winner because it has more Hollywood studio support or in his words: "VHS had the backing of the market and I'm sorry folks so does Blu-ray." It was the same theory you stated in a post about a week ago on the "Sony is in a better position than M$" news article.....but again I have to disagree with that logic for the same reasons I disagreed before, I'll just cut and paste it from that old post so I don't have to type it all over again: "Also I disagree with your statements about Blu-ray vs HD DVD, because while betamax might have been a little better than VHS it still didn't offer any significant quality advantage over the VHS format but it was alot more expensive...thats the main reason it failed, not that consumers won't pay more for a quality product but there has to be a significant quality=cost ratio, in other words the higher quality/benefits has to warrant the higher cost. Im old enough so I remember that initialy
vhs and betamax had about the same amount of studio support you could get most movies on either format, but VHS took off because the consumers decided very quickly that a VCR was just as good as a betamax player but only more affordable so they bought VCR's and VHS movies....it wasnt even a war, it was over before it started, and of course Hollywood just went with the winner. Now my point to all this is it doesn't matter if Blu-ray has the majority support, if consumers go to their local electronics store and see that the picture quality is basicly identical (I have perfect 20/20 vision and I've watch them both on the same TV, same hookup and guess what they look identical) and despite storage capacity the quality/benefits are relatively the same, but Blu-ray is almost double the price.....so we'll just have to wait and see....either way I dont think this will have a clear winner anytime soon like VHS and Betamax because DVD's are still very popular and by comparison the movie quality doesn't blow you away, its more like cool that looks good, oh wait it costs how much?, OK maybe later, wheres the DVD section?" //

Im not saying that Dragonopolis in particular would rather see Blu-ray win, but I do know some want it to win because of PS3. Its funny that this article has some of the same reasoning that I stated a week ago, not that I'm a rocket scientist or something but it actually just makes more sense that the consumer will decide the winner and not Hollywood, so unless all the studios completely dump HD DVD, its clear they have a more balanced quality=cost ratio....so its possible more studios will give more support if consumers by HD DVD players in large numbers. Thats definitely bad, bad news for Sony/PS3.

[4me2]

Reasons that Betamax failed were
-Sony did not licensed any other manufacturer(they want it be the only one make it) and JVC licensed averybody including Sony(more choices better prices). That's not case this time. Actually Toshiba is still the only player manufacturer, BD- Samsung ,Sony, Philips, Panasonic, Pionier, Sharp.
-you could not put more that 1hr on Betamax and who would bother with one movie on 2 tapes.VHS offered bigger "storage" -1 movie 1 tape.

Blu-ray and HD-DVD are storage medium (both optical based on blue-violet laser 405nm). Quality of the movie depends mostly on transfer, post transfer digital corrections , codecs used and than on the hardware plays it. Since both format support identical codecs if you would put current HD-DVD titles on BD they would look NO better and NO worse. Just like when you copy movie from DVD to hard drive, same movie different storage (as long it is in digital format).

As for now BD movies look worse than HD-DVD but not because they are on BD disk but just because the studios awful job with transfers, decision of using MPEG2 or just simply BD technically is not ready yet. Though they kind of already pushing hard in PC market (Sony 50gb burrner $750).

HD-DVD as storage medium is a evolved, improved current DVD format.
Blu-ray is a new format, method of reading and streaming data is differnt, bigger storage(begging of 2007 TDK or JVC will release 100gb burrner with disks) So BD as storage medium is superior. If it comes to the content(namely movies) they store/hold now, they are NOT.

[tk]

Quick list of posters activity last 14 day
1. The Real Deal 701
2. THELANDOFSAND 319
3. JIN KAZAMA 309
4. TheMART 284
5. DJ 161
6. jay da xbox baller 143
7. pRo loGic II 135
8. achira 130
9. DC rider 360 106

Now tell me - how does one make 701 posts on one site in 14 days? I mean - this guy must be permanently - 24 hours a day be sitting and typing messages. Except for - if this is not just someone typing away - killing time. This seems to be a full time occupation. I wonder if M$ has a special PS3 bashing division - just typing away, pretending to be gamers being "negative" about the PS3. You know - good old fashioned FUD tactics. You - that tactic you use when you are not quite so sure that your product will be competitive enough on its own - that you need to create FUD to keep the customers from buying the competition's console. And these posts are this site only.

I think it is time to get the moderators of PS3 sites to start banning this bs. You want to read an article and post a comment or read a comment - and all you see is this "negative" posts from a couple of pretenders who on a bad day make 50 "negative posts" minimum. This seems to be a clear misdirection and FUD tactic by someone who have a vested interest to ensure that any news re the PS3 is regarded as negative.

[FeralPhoenix]

Yes those are some good points, and I think it makes a lot of sense, but either way I still believe the major reason Betamax failed was the quality did not match the price as far as value goes.....anytime the consumer is given a choice of 2 similiar products, the best value always wins the majority.

[FeralPhoenix]

I definitely don't have that kind of time....and neither do most people, but just because theRealDeal is a "postjunkie" doesn't make him a M$ rep or something. I mean this sounds like a classic conspiracy theory that fanboys for both sides are always throwing around....I actually think I spend too much time on this site and I only check the news 4 or 5 times a week and make a few comments here and there, but thats just me....I love videogame news and if I had the time I would probably read/post more but I got to actually play the damm games sometime, oh and I have this thing called a job too. BTW, Im not defending theRealDeal but he has alot of post because he likes to debate (argue) with Sony fans over and over again (useless)....and besides that I like to read peoples opinion that have something to say other than "360 Rocks PS3 sucks" and vice versa. I like comments from all perspectives including PS3 fanboys and 360 too, as long as its intelligent with just a hint, of truth. I think theRealDeal has alot of good posts and some I disagree with too and no disrespect but he definitely doesn't work for M$! lol Theres no need for making up Conspiracy Theories just because you dont agree with him.

[uckitsayitchbay]

HD-DVD FTW!!! lmao blu-ray killed this format even though HDDVD was more accepted

[uckitsayitchbay]

HD-DVD LOST PEOPLE!!! PS3 FOR THE EPIC WIN