Uh oh! New Xbox 360 Slim uses the old X clamp on chipset

Thought that the 360's hardware problems were over? Perhaps not. A modder has revealed that his brand new Xbox 360 features the same old X clamp on the chipset. This X clamp was widely associated with the RRoD previously and it will have many people fearing for the reliability of the new device. But that's not all, there also more disadvantages too.

[HINDERIZATION]

lol

[D4RkNIKON]

They removed the red lights hoping to end the title of RROD so it will be GreenRingOfDeath or just death

[Al Bundy]

New paint job, same old faulty hardware.

[RageAgainstTheMShine]

more lols!

This is how MS does biznezz!

[MRHARDON]

How do you know its faulty? PS3 has hardware failure too!!!YLOD?

So PS3 isnt any better and if PS3 fails and its YLOD people have to PAY 150$ to get her fixed.

[ShinMaster]

Seriously, how many cases of "YLOD" have been reported?
Personally, I haven't heard of anyone that's had such problem with their PS3.

Pay to get fixed? How about paying full prize to re-buy another 360? (which adds to sales for M$). Not everyone got the chance to fix their 360 for free.

[DaCajun]

I've had a YLOD right before my 2 year point but I had the extended warranty and got a new 250G slim for free. In that same amount of time I had 2 360s die and the disc drive on another die. Still have a 360 but I prefer my PS3 and to me it is more reliable.

At below you need to read it again and it makes since, you need to learn how to read and comprehend. But since you are slow I will paraphrase it for you. I prefer my PS3 over my 360 and to me my PS3 is more reliable. Stay in school kids.

[RememberThe357]

That comment makes absolutely no sense. The console the breaks on you most is the most reliable?

[Gawdl3y]

Yeah, pretty much sums it up.

[Danteh]

red lights indicate that doors are secure.... NOT

[WrAiTh Sp3cTr3]

Not really concerned. My 360 red ringed around the same time the first Bioshock came out. I sent it in and got it fixed and haven't had a problem since.

[Speedy180]

U ppl who just keep letting ur 360's Die and just wait for a new 1 r the Problem. If this was any other piece of Hardware u wouldnt stand for this would u?

[RedDevils]

they're fanboy :)

[KingME]

There are many PC that uses the same principals and they run just fine. Also, the new Xbox runs much cooler and will produce less of a problem.

Stop exploiting every single issue you get to hate on Microsoft, and try to at least display that you can you some form of common sense. I know this will be difficult for some people because they have no sense of responsibility, but for those that do, don't give in to this silly flamebait.

[JsonHenry]

The X-clamp was not the problem. It was just one of the things you had to take off in order to fix the problem. My PC CPU has used an X-clamp underneath the MB for at least 5-6 years now and never had an over heating problem.

And I am certainly NOT defending MS on this. I am on my 3rd xbox right now because of the problems. I just don't think MS is gonna implement something in their new design that was a factor in the RROD fiasco.

[k2d]

So what was the exact reason for all the RRoDs?

I've heard both bad soldering and bad admission of coolpast/miniscule heatsink..

[darthv72]

straws....sdf...grasping

Come on people. Trying to find any kind of negative view on this new revision is flat out lame. This is a machine that actually has added stuff since launch. RARELY does that happen. Generally you find there is stuff taken away and the big 3 (Sega, Sony, Nintendo) are all guilty of it.

This new board can use the old clamp provided the board itself has been properly suited to accommodate it. The old board had warping issues due to heat and bad solder and the clamp was the scapegoat and easiest piece to try first.

Process of elimination is most likely where it brings back this clamp. Once they determined it wasnt so much the clamp itself but other components they realized the clamp was suitable for use again.

I can understand if you have no interest in the 360 but this is just sad and low ever for so called gamers.

[acere]

go wait for your rrod

[Tomdc]

the latest 360's dont break down to often now i doubt it will be to bad

[Old Greg]

these SHlTTY comments remind of that SHlTTY Ke$ha song.

[Venatus-Deus]

My bluray drive broke 6 months after launch

My refurb then Ylod after another 18 months

I'm on third PS3 and i'm pro Sony. Read my comment history.

I'm an unlucky fcuker

[AliTheBrit19]

Wtf?

Microsoft why is it that me, an amateur 19 year old IT student, could build a better, more reliable console than you?

Seriously WHY WOULD YOU GO BACK TO SOMETHING THAT OBVIOUSLY FAILS.

[ryuzu]

Amateur, 19 yr olds have already been doing the job by the sounds of things lol.

r.

[Danteh]

@alithebrit

then why don't u do it and become rich? /s

[GWAVE]

Microsoft.

*facepalm*

But HEY! They removed the physical "red lights of death", so that took care of the problem. Right? Riiight?

[darthv72]

simply using the same clamp does not mean the same end result will occur. This is a new board revision which i would assume would have a refined soldering points which seemed to have been part of the cause of the RROD issue. The clamp used to keep things together would not have been suffecient if the parts it was to keep together were not mounted properly. Makes sense to me.

Now a revised board with (hopefully) a better mounted chip placement would be able to use the previous clamp as it was intended.

[HolyOrangeCows]

What were they thinking?

[Information Minister]

They weren't.

Or maybe they were thinking that you can't have an RROD without the red ring.

Take your pick.

[HammockGames]

I kid, I kid.

On topic, at face value this clamp thing doesn't sound good.

But if I remember right the x-clamp fix was actually to address an issue with the soldering compound (they used a cheaper, weaker version in the early years of the console) along with the mobo warping and poor ventilation/overheating? So were the clamps a contributor to problem or the x-clamp fix just an attempt to remedy the other things that went so wrong in the design (by tightening the solder points/connections)? Correct me if I'm wrong - I'm going from memory here...

Regardless, to me the "RRoD" and "x-clamp fix" are forever linked. For that reason alone this doesn't resonate well...

Hopefully with a new mobo, smaller & cooler chipset, and improved ventilation, 360 fans won't have to worry anymore. Seriously, we're all gamers here, and we just want to play. Any system failure flat out sucks, regardless of the platform. Personally, I wouldn't wish it on anybody...

[MegaPowa]

Dude calm down. How would you know if your console is more reliable than this one its not even out in the wild yet just because it uses the x clamps does not confirm any rrods. oh and by the way don't be so arrogant with your i can build a better console than Microsoft crap. I'd really like to see you design and build a console better than the 360 without using parts from the 360 itself.

[shqype]

Microsoft was handing them out during its E3 press conference.

One of the major gaming sites even demonstrated what happens to your games when you move the new 360.

[The BS Police]

Th older models do that to your Xbox 360 games when you move the console aswell. It's nothing new and in all honesty common sense dictates that you don't move any console while a game disc in in the tray.

[sonnyz]

@The BS Police
My PS3 is right next to my plasma. When the PS3's fan starts running hard I walk over and move it away so that it doesn't pull in so much heat. I don't turn the system off first. I wouldn't say that means I'm lacking common sense.

[darthv72]

there is a difference between sliding the unit away slightly and flat out flipping the sucker over.

[ClownBelt]

" WHY WOULD YOU GO BACK TO SOMETHING THAT OBVIOUSLY FAILS"

That's where they get most of their sales?

[KingME]

Perhaps for the same reason you do it everyday with you lame comments.

Edit: @lirky and D4... What do you think beta testing is? Companys experiment with consumers all the time. Hell Sony pretty much admitted that with the PSPGO, but I don't hear you mentioning that.

Just a thought.

[MegaPowa]

Most of the time people just send in their 360s to get repaired not buy new ones :/

[Strikepackage Bravo]

do you know how many PS3 owners have went back to PS3s with YLOD, and they actually had to PAY to have that fixed.

[RageAgainstTheMShine]

korrect!

[AliTheBrit19]

Alright, maybe a little bit of an overreaction on my side.

But everyone knows that the X-Clamps cause serious problems, when they contract and put pressure on the motherboard, eventually cracking it, or just causing it to massively overheat.

Microsoft had a clean slate with the 360s, to make it uber reliable and put extra care into the hardware design, they clearly did not.

[KingME]

"Microsoft had a clean slate with the 360s, to make it uber reliable and put extra care into the hardware design, they clearly did not."

Wow, you managed to rebutt and then jump right back to conclusions all in the same comment. I don't think I have ever seen that before..lol But I'm sure there's a name for that.

[BISHOP-BRASIL]

@KingME

Although I think people are reacting way too soon - no fails so far, unless you move it, which is not advised to do in any console - and I agree we should not jump to conclusion, still AliTheBrit has a point.

X clamp is metal piece designed to hold a important component, processor, to motherboard. And most metal leagues does expand a lot when submitted to heat and contract back pretty fast when the heat source is put away, all over a processor and soldering that is going through the same expand and retract circle in a different timing. Hence the X form and some metal leagues being not ideal to devices that generates considerable heat, as consoles. They will simply stop moving and hold the silicium processor on every side while it's still expanded and over soldering in it's most fragile state - still hot but not fluid, it become easily breakable.

I'm not saying the new 360 will outright overheat once you play it, but putting the X clamp is indeed a bad move on the design side of things unles the material they are using for it is a lot better, which doesn't look like it, seens to be the same materia that 360 already used.

If it really is the same metal X clamp we all knew before, they'll need to make sure the Xbox generate way less heat and/or that the generated heat have to be dispersed way more efficiently if sticking to this design. Now we'll have to wait and see if they are able to do it.

[testerg35]

Ali, the PS3 (well the phats) also used a clamp to push down on the cpu/gpu.

[Greek God]

they think its improved and buy it and then maybe rrod and then another new xbox and then rrod and then..
bling bling cash

[No FanS Land]

I'll stick to my Quiet PC modded falcon motherboard 360.

I didn't read the article but isn't this piece that cracked due to faulty solder joint causing RROD or E74?

Wow, I read on another article that apprently the 360 S was in dev for 2 years. so much for R&D.

(on another note, is this the infmaous Valhalla motherboard?)

[tatotiburon]

please somebody tell me how this

http://img686.imageshack.us...

and this

http://www.wired.com/images...

are the same??

[No FanS Land]

Your first link is the upper side of the motherboard and you second link is below the board ¬¬

[tatotiburon]

what makes this article a lot worst, if the old x clamp is below the board, why they claim that the new xbox 360 is using the old x clamp if they didn't take a picture below the board, just because the top heatsink have a x form so it use a x clamp below? hahaha

[dirthurts]

I have fixed many 360s, and this model hasn't been in any of them with the RROD.
The Xclamp wasn't actually the problem. It was the thickness of the clamp anyway. If they fixed that they're fine.

[devilhunterx]

damn, and I always thought that he was only 12 year old.

[XxMajeSteRxX]

I REPAIRED ALL OF MY FRIENDS 360,LIKE 17 OF THEM AND IT NEVER HAD TO DO WITH THE X CLAMPS,THE PROBLEM WAS ALWAYS THE GPU CHIP OVERHEATHING BECAUSE OF BAD SOLDEER PROBLEM, I ALWAYS HAD TO REFLOW THE BOARD,AND THAT FIXED THEM ALL

[sonnyz]

dood, turn ur headphones down...

[AAACE5]

The X clamp's main problem was dealing with high heat! With a cooler chipset inside, those red ring problems shouldn't be an issue! But this is the internet and more importantly this is N4G and there is a lot of hate for the 360 so bash away!

[Dee_91]

meh.. il just wait a couple of months and see
im not spending $300 on the same old xbox with a new skin and wifi
if they really fixxed the rrod il b onboard

edit: and if i can still Mod them >D
if its unmoddable fux it

[theonlylolking]

they need to go back to school

[Lirky]

Microsoft are experimenting with consumers.

Untill the consumers keep helping the 360... into the future then microsoft can release a more reliable product.

[D4RkNIKON]

The experiment uses consumers as test subjects and no one seems to care, xbox is still in a beta. sad really

Seems like the truth stings worse than I thought, some one had a few die on them already lol

[Hallmark Moment]

I see the old console war is heating up. Not enough people talking about Sony's offerings so they turn their attention on the 360's lol. Trying tag RROD on new redesigned hardware is epic fail. Shouldn't people wait for a massive failure rate first?

[Misterhbk]

Not enough people talking about Sony's offerings???

Have you seen the vast number of GT5 articles posted today? Pack your bags and move from under that rock!

[Misterhbk]

5 disagrees for speaking the truth??? There are 5 GT5 articles on the front page of the site alone! So yes it's true, this guy must be living under a rock if he think no one is talking about "Sony Offerings." SMH

[JustTheFactsMr]

If they hadn't told everyone they were within industry standard failure rates while the whole RROD fiasco was going on you might have a point.

But since they pulled the wool over people's eyes why would anyone trust them again? Especially when they didn't fix the scratch discing problem this time either. The simple and inexpensive one. It would have cost them a penny or two to clamp it down properly.

The onus isn't on the consumer to spend their hard earned money on a company that duped them the first time around by bypassing proper QA procedures to beat their competitors to market at consumers financial expense.

Now if your a trusting fool type then go for it. But the odds say it will be RROD all over again. Just like disc scratching wasn't fixed either. Just a new shiny box for appearances sake. Even if it is fixed you would be better to wait a year and let others be the suckers this time around. Just in case.

[Megahurtz1986]

New clothes, Same old person underneath em. What else would you expect from microsoft

[jaredhart]

never learn

[SmokeyMcBear]

this one consumes less energy, and probably emits less heat. Who knows they might have had cases and cases of the clamps and needed to use them. Im sure the new model has been in development for years and years by now, with lots of testing.

[You Noob]

Yeah it produce less heat, but this time is two chip in one single socket.

This mean... +- same heat :3

[AuToFiRE]

Smokey, I love ya but the new S model is simply to compete with the slim, they made it in the time the slim has been out, they probably had tons left like you said, and thus making it even cheaper, also they are the easiest, cheapest and fastest to produce, again another point from the original 360 line, i can see them breaking again

[SmokeyMcBear]

damn, forgot to put /sarcasm at the end

[tiamat5]

Is Microsoft 's learning curve a straight line? Can't believe you people even trust Microsoft any more?

[Megahurtz1986]

Straight line lol

[PS360PCROCKS]

Not sure what the reason for this is...to look cool cause your board has a big "X" on it? I don't see this being an issue though...the console is down to a single 45nm gpu/cpu combined chip. How much heat could that chip produce? Plus I suspect Microsoft has the fan RIGHT ON TOP of the chip this time.

[tuglu_pati]

You are making to much sense, that's not allowed here. Be careful or your bubbles may suffer.

[iceman2885]

It looks like too many people are ready to just jump down Microsoft's throat without giving them the benefit of the doubt.

I SERIOUSLY doubt this new version of the xbox 360 will have the same RROD problem that the others had.

I mean, Microsoft may not be the most consumer friendly, and a lot of people here hate their guts, but they aren't stupid (there is a reason they make butt loads of money). I doubt they would release a design that hasn't gone through major quality testing after the debacle that was the RROD. It's not good business practice to have to spend billions of dollars replacing broken machines, and I think they learned their lesson the first time around.

I'd be willing to bet good money that this new slim 360 doesn't experience RROD like the original 360's.

[SKullDugger]

Yes the fan is right on top of the chipset and the chipset is no longer under the DVD drive, hence the vents on the top/righthand side of the console.

[PS360PCROCKS]

Haha thanks for the warning tuglu.

I agree Iceman, I hammer Microsoft for crappy customer service. Lack of Games, Kinect overload at E3 and the fact they changed Memory cards and HDD. But they aren't stupid, we all know this. I agree though, I am sure this console revision has been in the works and been under STRICT testing for a long time now. I don't think this machine will suffer any real issues.

@Patriots - Yeah that's what I was thinking as well. That was the first thing I noticed was the placement of the fan and the vents. Someone finally came to their senses and said "Hey maybe a DVD drive 3/4 of an inch over the top of our GPU is a bad idea"

[blazBlue]

...*facepalm*

Not again...

Really, isn't this part of the reason why there's a no model? To fix the RROD? I hope this isn't the case because I'm considering a 360 right now. That's what made me scared to get one in the first place.

Oh, wow, two disagrees for saying this? People get too easily angered around here, lol.

[Arnon]

It's not logical to compare the X-clamps of this model to the older versions. For one, there's been revisions such as the fan has been placed directly on the chip now. The console consumes less energy, and emits less heat, so comparing it to a jasper model 360 isn't really a fair comparison. The console's been revised in a positive manner.

I understand that the original 360 has had it's issues, but I honestly cannot fathom the fact that Microsoft would reuse faulty parts in the same manner. This console is completely different from it's predecessors. This thing has probably been in development for years with extensive testing, and I guarantee you they didn't just slap on a part only to have their asses sued to high-hell. They know the risks of the last console, and I'm 95% sure that they wouldn't continue making the same mistake if they had the choice to do so otherwise.

If past speculation is correct, this is running on the Valhalla motherboard. This board combines the CPU and GPU into 1 super-chip at a 45nm process. This reduces heat, energy consumption, and space allowing for a much better, single fan to be placed within the console. The anatomy of this console is completely different.

Also to note, that the picture shown is not the X-clamp. That's the heatsink. The X-clamp was placed at the bottom of the board and wasn't really an issue to begin with. It was due to faulty soldering that the thing fell apart.

[Wikkid666]

Clap was never the issue. DVD drive placement was. Add the heat of the GPU, CPU, then a high rpm dvd right over it was a recipe for disaster.

New 360 has Valhalla chip set. 45nm CPU/GPU combo. Half the power consumption, half the heat. Then add proper heat sink and fan placement. I bet the thing won't even get warm.

[SKullDugger]

Let me see some video and more pictures, like with console case and power supply and the box it came in! Then I will decide. I have no proof this is the new MOB.

[Jrome]

"Yeh, umm...we didn't exactly finishing selling the old 360's so, we dressed them up and tried to resell them"

lol

[KILLERAPP]

MS has never been a hardware company like Sony, they need to hire better engineers am available to work offer me a job MS…

[k-Lan]

You really sound like you know what you're talking about.

[fossilfern]

I was also wondering. Is using the same heatsink for both the GPU and CPU a good idea ? because dual GPU graphics cards use the same heatsink and they can run extremly hot. Maybe im talking rubbish but i have a feeling its not a good choice but i suppose the fan mounted on the heatsink solves it

[The Lazy One]

That's not the x-clamp. That's the heat sink. The x clamp is on the bottom of the board, and the problem with the clamp was the wrong solder not the clamp itself.

[ImmortalLegend]

I'm not hearing about 3 red lights as much, but what about error E74 and 1 red light? I know quite a few people with E74...just saying. In fact, E74 wasn't even covered by the extended warranty at first, now it is.

[SPARTANVI]

IIRC, every iteration of the Xbox360 uses x-clamps.

Quote from a Xbox repair expert:

"First problem is the lead-free solder being used by Microsoft (required by law) cracks under lower temps, unlike a lead based solder. Second problem is the PCB likes to flex, and once flexed, it wont go back to OEM specs. This combined with the ball grid array (BGA), temperature, and lead free solder = big problems."

As for the authors other complaints. Finger prints? Really? For a console that takes NO handling to turn on/off? You don't even need to touch the console to open/close the disc tray.

Second, Game has confirmed that Xbox 360S will be packaged with data migration kits.

[jay2]

They are NOT bundled with the data kits, don't believe me? watch the first unboxing video that popped up.

'Microsoft said that they are releasing a data transfer cable for $20 soon after the new 360s launch.' You'll here a very close to the above comment in the video, you'll also notice there's no cable either listed on the box, or in the box it's self.

[SPARTANVI]

Are you sure that's not an unboxing from one of the units gifted to the press @ E3? I can't watch the video (at work right now).

In any case, this doesn't mean that it's not bundled with the data migration kit at RETAIL.

Source: http://www.mcvuk.com/news/3...

[ihungry]

Heating and cooling cycles cause the solder balls under all the BGAs to crack/whisker/etc.

The most reliable way to repair this problem is to reflow. The problem is greatly mitigated simply by introducing efficient cooling systems.

[midgard229]

ms just changed the skin a little to increase sales but its the same xbox. how sad

[Phish]

I think the problem was mainly with the solder & poor cooling on the old boards, and not the xclamps. My Xenon had all kinds of issues, but my Jasper has been rock solid. I don't see why this one would be any less reliable than the Jasper units.

[biggame901]

The xclamp wasn't the only problem. It was the heat distribution, which should be resolved with the new chipset design, and placement of the fans.

Listen, Ive cracked on Microsoft for a number of boneheaded decisions, and E3 definitely didn't help. However, they would have to be downright stupid to release a new console design that hasn't been thoroughly tested, considering the disaster that was RROD. I don't think this one will have the same problems.

[TwistedMetal]

when you can buy a ps3 for the same price with more features, better games, and free online. Start useing your heads people because M$ and the x360 will not last to much longer. stop being tricked and start supporting real next gen gameing with real hardware.

[bviperz]

I'm STILL bitter at MS for throwing my money down for a MW2 360 and wifi. This slim 360 was a great surprise for some, a huge letdown for me. MS, always soaking you for everything you got before giving you what you need.

I've read that the 360 slim doesn't even do red lights. MS confidence in their fix for RRoD or tactic to sooth consumers should the unit fail? My thoughts, until MS explains the reason why a unit red rings, then there is no fix, just theories and band-aids.

[Fireseed]

XClamp is to the RROD as the color of the PS3 is to the YLOD

[washingmachine]

dont worry,fools will buy it

[xCaptainAmazing]

It was only an issue because it was coupled with rampant overheating. If they solved the overheating issue, the X-Clamp design should be fine because the "warping" would be nonexistent. Only time will tell.

[abhisheksagi]

the fanboy fight again lol

[tudors]

Just because it is an X does not make it an X-clamp, this guy also says there is no migration kit, but wasn't it confirmed that there is? just more attempts to put a negative on a positive thing.

[xCaptainAmazing]

the article is complete flame bait, with few facts to back up its claim. move along everybody, troll central!

[eliasg]

i hate this trolling articles...

[oguzsasi]

Made Kinect instead of fixing the main issue of the console!

[dragonelite]

Xclamp=/=Rrod
Keeping heat inside the case==Rrod

And the 360S is pumping out heat like a motherfucker so no rrod i hope.

[Berzf]

And So i thought i was replacing my xbox arcade with a new model, finaly with a internal wifi...
Way to go microsoft.

[Xander756]

I predicted this would happen a week ago: http://www.examiner.com/x-1...

[iliimaster1]

idont care at all all i care about is getting the 149 one and modding it

[OlvaR]

suddenly everyone on n4g became expert engineers!...pure gold i tell ya

[xxLuckyStrike]

Soooo not true

[EXID]

wait a few months before you buy one. if you've gone without a 360 for this long you can wait a few extra months to see if their redesign is faulty. i'm waiting until a price drop for the new one. by then, anything wrong would have been brought to light, and i'll know if it's worth getting or not.

[BasilMarceaux]

I rarely pre-order new hardware of any kind for this very reason.

[likedamaster]

Besides the x-clamp, look at this guy's other complaints... lmao

* It will gather finger prints easily
* No more faceplate fun
* Free floating disk drive
* No HDMI cables included and no migration kit

[BasilMarceaux]

I agree, just like when the PS3 slim came out, reviewers said "Oh its great, it doesnt attract fingerprints..."Morons.

Whaaaaat? who puts their hands all over the outside of the console?! theres a power and eject button on these things, and you dont even NEED to touch those!

Shiny black is just better looking. This looks 10x better than the ugly matte elite and the PS3 fat looks better than the slim.

Ever hear someone say "I wish that shiny black sports car was matte finish, I just hate those fingerprints"??

[dragonelite]

I heard some people like to make sweet love to their console and dont want to leave evidence behind like fingerprints.

I know it sounds crazy but those are the urban stories i heard.

[air1]

so many ppl talking out of there as$.. the x clamp was never the issue, no matter what clamp you use if the damn thing over heats the solder will melt. the x clamp is there for "support" its not meant to hold the whole damn thing together if the solder is melting. the heat sink glue that they used was trash too, thats why if you ever fixed a 360 you take off all that glue gunk and did it over with a better glue, it was called silver something i think llama .com sold the whole kit

but what ever you sony fanatics know it all soo....

and what a stretch with the other complaints, what are you 10?

[tudors]

You mean thermal paste right?

[xCaptainAmazing]

as long as the unit remains cool, the x-clamp is fine. it's not like x-clamp equals fail, heat equals fail.

[air1]

yea thermal paste.. but i think it has another name, cant remember it though..

point is, it was never the x clamp. if you buy the kit they give you spacers with it to make the clamp tighter but that was cause the board is more then likely warped.

like xcaptain said "heat equals fail"

[BasilMarceaux]

Suppose you get a new 360s. Take it home, and a week later it dies.....

Given that places like BestBuy scammed us all on their so-called product replacement plans, we would all be forced to send them away for a new refurbished one.

At this point, there would be no refurbished 360s's would there?

What Im getting at, is if you sent it away for repairs would you get an refurb original in return??

[Thoreau]

the typical monkey see, monkey do mind set without the actually follow through in the tech department. i have never had rrod with my hdmi enabled 360 and i seriously gave a thought to buying a new 360, but they pull the same half azzed tactic.....

[IWentBrokeForGaming]

damn near everyone can shut up about it!

[CrazedFiend]

Does in not make sense to ANYONE to wait and see if the hardware proves itself this time around BEFORE buying into this? Microsoft e-mailed me right after the big reveal of the new Xbox, thanking me for buying the 360 and trying to get me to buy the new 360. I replied with a big "No thank you, I'll wait until your new toy proves itself" (I doubt that they'll get the message though). It was bad enough I got burned the last time around.

Someone a while back said that the biggest way to make sure that we continue to get poor quality hardware is to continue to blindly buy poor quality hardware. And that's exactly what we did. Of course, they've improved somewhat on the quality of their hardware over the years, but the fact is that even when the RRoD was at it's peak, the 360 NEVER dropped in sales. As consumers, we sent the wrong message to Microsoft when it was time for them to design their new 360. We basically said "It's ok Microsoft. We'll buy whatever you give us. And if it doesn't work, we'll forgive you."

Now, I'm not saying that this new 360 is not a good piece of hardware and that the problems of the past have not been fixed. And I'm not saying that there will be any issues at all with this new version. But I AM saying that any smart consumer of ANY product that cost as much as these things do with the kind of track record that the 360 has had in the quality department would wait a while and be ABSOLUTELY SURE there are no major issues BEFORE putting out their hard earned cash for one. But now I'm guessing maybe that's just me...

Ok, I've said my piece. Let the bubble robbery begin (>_<;)

[lugia 4000]

This xbox comes with an integrated cooler master . I believe this will keep it cool.

[You Noob]

Damn... this console is a total disaster under all aspects.

And the worse thing is that MS marches on people stupidity...

[kewlkat007]

has really sunk!!!

[SPARTANVI]

The featured comments are FUD, while the factual posts are buried in the mud.

[Tone]

I work as a tech in a Computer Store, we also repair all the consoles and i can tell you this for a fact, the main cause for RROD or YLOD is due to cold solder ball joints usually in the GPU, but sometimes also on the CPU.

Constant heating and cooling down over a period of time causes the lead free solder to have micro fractures = bad connection between the GPU and the mother board, that is the main cause of the issue. The X clamp has nothing to do with it, neither does this "flexing of the board" which does not happen in reality.

The only way to fix these issues (with the older machines) is to remove the GPU/CPU and reball it with lead solder, which is far stronger and more reliable than lead free. Once this is done i put back on the x-clamps and have not had a single one back in over two years (We use a dark infared rework station to carry out the work)

Here is a picture i have taken from work a while ago, with a pile of consoles to show all the non-believers, you can grumble and bitch about it, but im sorry but the facts are the facts.

http://i67.photobucket.com/...

[kewlkat007]

It will not read disc, you don't get any icons to start the game>

[Tone]

Means you will need a new laser for your drive. Its probably a KES-400 laser. Its pretty easy to change and you can get the laser from Ebay easily. We get ours from a direct supplier (the lasers for the PS3 are made in China) there are two different types for the "fats" : single lens (KES-400) and dual lenses (KES-410)

[Gun_Senshi]

I told you that X360 Error rate will never be fixed. Its Viral Marketing by MS to sell more X360s to same user.

If you have a big game collection and your X360 bricks? You buy another.

[DaBadGuy]

WTF? Who runs Microsoft the Three Stooges? Larry Fine aka Xbox Live's Major Nelson, Curly Howard Senior VP of Marketing, and Moe Howard as President of Microsoft. "Hey Moe, we gotta have these new consoles out dis week, but they ain't done!" "You numbskull, just slap some X-clamps on there and you'll be right as rain." "I'll do it when I'm ready!" "Are you ready?" "Yeah I'm ready Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk." I imagine that's how most meetings go.

[bruiser81]

It is my observation (OPINION) that MS, as well as many other people are under the impression that Sony moved lots of consoles due to the redesign. Now I for one am not a fan of the PS3 slim, i prefer my fatty. However I think it was more the price reduction that shot up their sales and not appeal of a slimmer (inferior) version of the PS3.

I think MS wanted the same sales surge so they repackaged what they already had, and added what should have been added in the beginning to achieve these same figures as Sony last year. Now I think the system will sell strong but not PS3 slim strong for the simple fact the 360 from the beginning had the more appealing price tag. That face the new 360 is still eating discs and as far as this story goes still have the POTENTIAL to overheat tells me they didnt really fix anything, they just made it prettier and added what it should have had from the beginning.

[Tone]

From the breakdown of the new die size, power requirements and the new cooling system, i cannot see any future issues with the new system, same as when the PS3 went "slim".. have only ever had 1 slim in store for repair, where as if you look at my previous post with the picture, we get a lot of "fats" is with Failed lasers or YLOD. We still get the old Xboxes in also with RROD.

Both Consoles have had their faults, but mostly seem resolved now.

[bruiser81]

yeah my fatty died last month, and now i have slim. I miss the fatty so much though

[GrilledCheeseBook]

nothing wrong with the x clamp