280°

Does Bioware Have The Right To Criticize SquareEnix?

Jaekuro from GamesOnSmash writes, "We’ve all seen Strategy Informer’s interview and read the words in big bold print:

“You can put a ‘J’ in front of it, but it’s not a RPG,” Daniel Erickson, Writing Director, Bioware
Of course Square Enix fans take this as a personal attack but, there is a small bit of truth to that statement. As much as we all don’t want to admit it, Square Enix has been falling off the map lately and Final Fantasy XIII didn’t exactly bring them back into the game. But I digress, does Bioware really have the authority to criticize on what makes an RPG and what doesn’t?

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N4GAddict5150d ago

I didn't really see it as a criticism in the first place.

Darkstorn5150d ago

The two make COMPLETELY different games...

I think this is in reference to Bioware alleging that FF13 wasn't a 'true' RPG.

Reibooi5150d ago (Edited 5150d ago )

I don't think have the right to criticize. As Darkstorn mentioned they are to completely different types of games. SE at least tried to make a completely new game and change the JRPG genre. Sure they have varying levels of success depending on who you ask but the point is they tried.

Bioware on the other hand relies on the same old formula with a different skin on it. Dragon's Age is nothing but Baldurs Gate with now gen graphics and as much as I love it Mass Effect is nothing but Baldur's Gate with a Sci Fi theme and a shooting mechanic. They are not TRULY new games. Yet they criticize SE for trying something new and they criticize everyone other Japanese Dev for NOT trying something new. So basically all Japanese games are inferior according to Bioware which is just wrong.

ShinMaster5150d ago (Edited 5150d ago )

ME2 isn't even an RPG. It's a genuine Third-person shooter (with the ability to change your dude's face and hair with branching dialog).
Baldur's Gate is definitely more of an RPG than ME.

BTW, I'm not hating or saying it's a bad game.

MechaGear5150d ago

I may repeat what I wrote on the same topic in another thread, but I don't consider any computer or console rpg a "true" rpg.
There is way more to real rpg's than building up skills.
As for branching dialogues, I wouldn't even had recognized them as rpg specific.
Whatever they say about ff xiii or jrpg in general, bioware is not creating true rpg's either.

Reibooi5150d ago

@ShinGino

If you asked those at Bioware what Mass Effect is they would say it's primarily a RPG with a shooter mechanic. It's funny you mention it's not a RPG at all because that's what Bioware was saying against Final Fantasy XIII which is FAR more of a RPG then Mass Effect 2 is. Yet you don't see Bioware leveling criticism at themselves.

The sad thing is Bioware seems to think that because they have levels and because they have moral choices or a dialog tree that their game is more of a RPG then Final Fantasy or whatever other JRPG is out there. The fact is though that almost EVERY game out there is starting to have elements that Bioware claims is what makes their games RPG's(Dialog tree, Moral Choices, levels,etc) Yet all those games are not RPG's. So why should Bioware have the right to claim they make RPG's but SE didn't make a RPG with Final Fantasy XIII?

Seriously do we have to call Gears of War 3 a RPG now because it will have RPG elements when it comes out?

pippoppow5150d ago

"Bioware on the other hand relies on the same old formula with a different skin on it." So true. Rockstar and Bethesda also do the same yet they are lauded for innovation and freshness. Oh, please.

TheoreticalParticle5150d ago

This is from the WRITING director? Is this the guy practically telegraphed 90% of Dragon Age?

Bioware makes mostly decent games. But they're FAR from where they need to be. The Final Fantasy games are fine, too, but they, likewise are far from where they need to be.

Both sides are trying to defend their poor vision of what an RPG should be like by slagging the others' product, instead of actually trying to make a really good RPG.

Unfortunately for Bioware, I'm getting really tired of their guys talking about how awesome they are.

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WildArmed5150d ago

Do they have the right?
Ofc, Freedom of Speech baby.

But, they could have been courteous.
Everyone is allowed to have an opinion, however wrong / rude it may be.

I havn't played FF13 yet (getting my copy over summer), and I havn't finished ME2 yet.
Did like ME1, despite the dead-slow pacing at times.
Just like I've loved FF-franchise for so long

Darkstorn5150d ago

I'm relatively new to console gaming, as I was a PC gamer throughout the '90s, so I'm really not 'in' on the Final Fantasy phenomenon. I got FF7 from PSN a year ago and haven't played more than the first hour, I just couldn't get into it.

That being said, Mass Effect is a masterpiece, a true PC gamer's game. And KOTOR is even better (in fact, it's the best game of last gen, in my opinion).

While I do favor Bioware, my point is that the companies make games that are polar opposites. As a result, Bioware is NOT justified in its criticism.

iamtehpwn5150d ago

Final Fantasy 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 are better than ANYTHING Bioware has ever even touched. The Term "Console RPG" was once used to describe JRPGs.

Fact is, I loved the main characters because I didn't make them--creating a sense of passion about their lives. I loved the story because I cared about the fate of the characters.

Bioware's games are RPG's and Square's RPG's. Difference? Style. Now if you want to debate if XIII was a good game, yes or no. but it was an RPG.

Croaker5150d ago (Edited 5150d ago )

Yeah, that's a matter of opinion. As far as I'm concerned BioWare is the better developer of the two, hell I think that BioWare makes the best RPGs. But as my opinion I've never liked JRPGs.

So don't attempt to pass that off as fact.

And yes BioWare has that right as does anyone else. Criticism should be welcomed by all developers and for the most part it is.

GWAVE.

You can't say that about Dragon Age.

SaiyanFury5149d ago (Edited 5149d ago )

To be completely honest, western RPGs and JRPGs are ultimately incomparable due to the differences in the views of both types. Western types are typically open with a crapload of options to customise your character, while JRPGs are more closed, and story driven. Although recently JRPGs have featured some modicum of customization. FFs 6,7, and 8 were great. They defined RPGaming on the original PS. Some would add 9 as well. X on the PS2. Personally, I didn't care for 9 or X, but that doesn't diminish their presence on the RPG scene. BioWare makes their games for western RPG fans, and they do very well at it. They have an entire legion of fans ready to buy their games, and rightfully so. They make solid games with plenty of the typical customizable options for character creation. And with the relatively recent release of Dragon Age: Origins, they've proven themselves to be able to tell a story.

Ultimately, traditional Japanese RPGs and western RPGs are to different in styles to compare. Speaking about BioWare's comments on FF13; it was too different from conventional JRPG principles. It lacked so many features that many of us would associate with normal JRPGs. FF13 seemed more of an action game than a normal JRPG. Again, that said, Dragon Age was made for BioWare's fans of western RPGs. FF13 was made to appeal to mainstream, non-RPGamers. I'm a longtime traditional JRPGamer, and FF13 actually turns me completely off. Also, I can play Dragon Age on my PC without any bias. I guess it ultimately is left up to the individual.

GWAVE5150d ago

You can slap "Bioware" on it, but it doesn't make it an RPG.

Case in point, Mass Effect 2.

Akagi5150d ago

That makes you sound like a butthurt weeaboo.

Jerk1205150d ago

No, see, slapping BioWare on it doesn't make it an RPG, having RPG mechanics does.

GarandShooter5150d ago

RPG mechanics? Like what? ME2 is an awesome game, but it feels far more like a TPS/action/adventure game with dialogue choices and skill trees than an RPG.

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Abriael5150d ago

It sure is a snide remark.

They might have the "right" to criticize whoever they want, but this sure wasn't a classy move. And I say this as a massive Bioware fan that bought every single game they did.
This expecially since their actual quality has been dropping TONS lately, with games released massively bugged and never patched or patched months later (like Dragon Age).

They better shut up and get to work, seriously.

Darkstorn5150d ago

Agreed. They absolutely have the 'right' to criticize, but are they justified? Absolutely not.

kraze075149d ago

Didn't Dragon Age receive patches just weeks after it was released? You must be talking about the console versions.

DaTruth5150d ago

If you didn't play past the end of the game in FF13, you wouldn't think it was an RPG. That is the problem with people who say FF13 isn't an RPG or isn't good; The RPG starts after the game is finished, this was done so the game could appeal to regular gamers and hardcore RPG gamers!

When you max out all your characters and get the best weapons, you can still get stomped by enemies in 3 seconds if you don't know how to fight them!

kindi_boy5149d ago (Edited 5149d ago )

But I can't.

What Square-Enix did with FF13 is sad. They grabbed the FF title by the face and drag it through mud. It was a very liner, very boring story, with very dull characters non of them was original, very gloomy atmosphere,with a very nice battle system and a "HERO" who didn't look like a fag. they took the title to the extreme!

So the outcome of their failed westernized experiment was, a non fag main character and a good battle system. (Think about every game that sells well in the west world, shooter and adventure game) I know there are some exceptions but was left is a good battle system and a cool main character.

I remember FF to be like this...
Amazing story, Original characters, enjoyable battle system, open world (map), cities, nice designs, challenges throughout the game, talking to people in cities, mini games, at least a decent soundtrack, and the signature of having the battle track at the end of every game, a decent dialogue, ofcourse some of them you would have a fag to play as.

I would take the fag any day instead of playing with lightening on that game.

booni35150d ago

he says that bioware will push SE out of the light for good which is hogwash. Now while i love my final fantasies and kingdom hearts a tad more than my mass effects and jade empires, they're all rpgs and in general, all pretty fun to play.
Furthermore, SE helped define the RPG as a genre, bioware should at least respect their elders.

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WMW5150d ago (Edited 5150d ago )

they can criticize the quality of ff13 but have no right to question if it is an rpg or not since their game is basically a tps with rpg elements.

they didn't question the quality of ff13 they said it wasn't a jrpg. and if you can say me2 is an rpg ff13 is one too seeing as it is more of a traditional rpg. also every game you play a role that doesn't make every game an rpg also customizing your character isn't an rpg only feature you can do that in halo.

Bnet3435150d ago

Yes it is. When you play Mass Effect, you role play. You play a role of a character you create with full customization. The shooter gameplay is the their "battle system" Are we going to call Kingdom Hearts an action game with RPG elements? As far as I know, BioWare has been making better games than SE this generation. Hasn't everyone been trashing SE for gimping FFXIII? Hmm ... very suspect. We can all agree SE has been sucking for a while now.

PirateThom5150d ago (Edited 5150d ago )

What makes that an RPG though?

All games could be "RPGs" since you role play in a game. Character creation is irrelevent, it's something added in later games for a touch of personalisation.

For the record, I don't disagree with Bioware making better games than SE, just pushing discussion because I feel the actual role playing element of ME2 are kind of stripped down.

DaTruth5150d ago

You call shooting a battle system?

VideoGameJimmy5150d ago

Since when does the quality of a game determine whether the game is a certain genre or not? For example, Rogue Warrior was a bad game, but it was still a shooter.

By the way, Kingdom Hearts IS an action role-playing game. Mass Effect is an action role-playing game. I think RPG is such a generic term.

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Natsu X FairyTail5150d ago

There's always right for constructive critisism as long it's not done in a way you make the other dev feel bashed or disrespected.

Godmars2905150d ago

Pretty sure this classifies as disrespectful.

dizzleK5150d ago

i think biowares games are closer to the mark of what an rpg is than ff13 was. i'll leave it at that.

imo only the shin megami games have kept the true rpg fires burning these past few years. i'd give my left one for a new devil summoner or digital devil saga.

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70°

The 7 Best Final Fantasy Characters: Unveiling the Legends

While FFVII ranks highly, there's more to the series than one game. Here's Chit Hot's picks for the seven best Final Fantasy characters.

220°

The older it gets, the more I respect Final Fantasy XIII

Alex Donaldson: "Hindsight is a hell of a thing, however, and in the years since Final Fantasy XIII, my respect for the decisions its developers made has skyrocketed. In the two Final Fantasy titles since we see both the brilliance and the folly in alternative approaches - and in Final Fantasy VII Remake, we get a more nuanced understanding of what FF13 was trying to accomplish from many of the same development leads."

Einhander1972183d ago

FFXIII is actually one of the best Final Fantasy games.

I also sort of was disappointed at the time, never as much as the bandwagon. But really all the fantastic 3D rendered cutscenes and I actually liked the characters and the story though convoluted was actually fantastic and the ending was extremely emotional. So much budget and time were put into that game Square had such big plans, I actually have always felt kind of bad for how things played out.

I have been thinking for years how great it would be to get all three games on one disk for PS4 or 5.

Nyxus183d ago

I always liked this game, and I agree, a rerelease for current gen would be nice.

Shane Kim181d ago (Edited 181d ago )

Gotta take off the nostalgia glasses. It's the worst FF. Shiva as a bike, I mean come on.

Elda181d ago

Shiva as a bike is strange but saying FFXIII is the worst FF is not at all a fact, that's simply your opinion.

Terry_B181d ago

*One of the 3 equally bad FF's

DivineHand125181d ago (Edited 181d ago )

When I got my series X a year ago, I bought FF13 for nostalgia reasons but ended up being disappointed. When I first played it around the time it launched, I didn't have a lot of experience with final fantasy games, so I enjoyed it. Fast forward to when I played it again, I found that the game had many unnecessary filler moments instead of just giving us meaningful content.

The game is also very linear and a quote on the article said it best. "It is like a sewage pipe that leads to the ocean until it opens up on Grand Pulse."

The story didn't make much sense either and I believe it is my mistake as I played the FF7 remake on PS5 prior which is a night and day difference in terms of pacing, storytelling and likeable characters even though cloud is aloof.

FinalFantasyFanatic181d ago (Edited 181d ago )

Probably was a mistake to play any of the golden era FFs first (e.g. FF6 through FF10), it makes it harder to enjoy some of the FFs that aren't as good. I think FF12 was where major issues with the series started becoming apparent, and it just got worse from there.

FinalFantasyFanatic181d ago (Edited 181d ago )

I didn't really care for it that much, the only saving grace was that it had a better story than 15 (overall it was better than 15) and possibly 12, and even then, you had to read some of it through primers, like reading a book. Plus the battle system was reasonably fun for what it was, even if it was more the spectacle that was exciting for me (e.g. summoning). And to be fair, the 13 trilogy got better with every games, I still don't like Snow though.

Gamingsince1981181d ago

Ff13 is only good if you haven't played a ff before, or any other games that are decent for that matter.

-Foxtrot181d ago

It is in fact no way the best Final Fantasy game, it's one of the worst

Linear corridors, Cutscene, Fight, Cutscene...rinse and repeat

Dialogue and characters are pretty bad, especially Lightning as the main FF hero, they literally said they tried to make a "Female Cloud" and they failed.

Story was pretty awful

I could go on

I think the only alright thing that came from the game was the music.

Elda180d ago

That's not a fact that's your personal opinion. The game sold 11 million copies between its 2009 release up until 2014 including critically reviewed as an 8 out of 10 or an 80 out of 100. The game does have some issues but it's not at all a fact as one of the worst FF games.

-Foxtrot180d ago

Elda

Not just mine mate

A large majority

So….

Traecy180d ago

N4G commenters such as yourself aren't the majority. The game was well received.

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gold_drake183d ago (Edited 183d ago )

i liked the game alot but i didnt like how they handled the terminology.

i dont mind reading data logs but it had soo many.

but i always loved the music and how it looked. the battle system wasnt too bad either.

but i like 13-2 more :)

i still dont understand why we never got a remaster of the trilogy

Eonjay181d ago

Xbox kinda did. Besides the video files of course which are still best on PS3 due to bluray.

Snookies12183d ago

XIII is a pretty solid game, but XIII-2 is WAY better. XIII-2 was one of the few games I decided to go for a Platinum trophy in, early on. Had so much fun the entire way through getting it too!

Eonjay181d ago

Totally agree. FF 13 was okay but 13-2 is my favorite FF game ever.

shinoff2183183d ago (Edited 183d ago )

I hated this to when it released. I haven't much liked a ff game since ff10 as much , aside from ff7remake. I decided to give it another shot on my series x since it's not on a current ps and was liking it quite a bit(just takes me some time to get over things ) until star ocean 2 remake came out I was all over that.

Square should definitely remaster it or something for ps4 ps5

KillerB181d ago

my favorite jrpg trilogy ever

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70°

Interview: Making music with Masashi Hamauzu

Square Enix Blog: "How do you compose iconic songs that help define a legacy? We speak to legendary composer Masashi Hamauzu about his work on Final Fantasy X, Final Fantasy XIII, and Final Fantasy VII Remake, and how to make unforgettable music."

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