Blu-ray Association hits back at HD DVD sales claims

HD DVD figures fail to include the European PC drive sales or Sony's PlayStation 3 console.

According to the BDA European Promotions Committee including these would mean that Blu-ray Disc accounts for almost 95% of all next generation hardware sales in Europe this year.

[Bill Gates]

HD-DVD & M$ = Tisk tisk, you liears...HAHHAHA

[cuco33]

1. how is this related to gaming?

2. gates, what are you... 14? grow up dude. your comments, along with many others show the immaturity fanboyism on this site. common knowledge, ms isn't hd dvd; if hd dvd fails, if hd dvd fails the 360 still moves on unlike ps3 if BR fails the ps3 shares similar fate. not saying BR or ps3 will fail but they are tied together unlike the 360. so again, how is it that we constantly see the d*ckriding scrotumsucking posts where hd dvd = ms? how?!

there ya have it...! cheers to all fanboys taking my bubbles and disagreeing with me ;)
is ps3 only BR drive? is ms only dvd9 drive? is ms's hd dvd addon an... add on?

@1.5 - exactly how am i losing my arguement? isn't this news4GAMERS?! how come no one preached ps2 & xbox1 was so great for playing dvds? oh thats right... because BR is superior to all. let me strengthen my argument. there are those (most) who buy ps3 for gaming and those (some) that buy it for movies. so what'll happen to BR for movies when gaming is abundant and the ps3s get used specifically for gaming, especially with hd dvd stand alone players outselling BR stand alone players? do some research, my view is backed up with fact. BR movie sales soared when ps3 was launched, why? because of lack of games. and every time a good game, even if it were a port, BR sales dropped. so since most buy a ps3 for gaming, whats to happen to BR movie sales when gaming is all abundant? would people drop $60 on a great game that can occupy them for hours on end especially online? or would they drop $25-40 on a BR title that can occupy them for 2 hrs tops? maybe BOTH will succeed but it's evident that ps3 viewed as a player only isn't smart and reason why analysts are more than willing to negate it from the statistics. my choice would be to keep it in there as it can help and hurt the numbers. see, thats what statistics is, a means for marketing and management to spin the numbers towards their benefit. it'll give u a conclusion that u are #1 and likewise it can give u a conclusion that u are suffering drastically

@1.6 - and it'll be a great upconverting dvd player, but isn't it what all the brand loyalists on here preaching BR as if it were mecca of all HD movies? it was born for PC, and should have stayed on PC in my book but i'm not bashing it for making it a standard in the ps3. but can't knock it for having the disk space, it could be used within the next 10 yrs that the ps3 is being designed for right? but say BR movies were to die the format war, not saying it won't but say it did... then ps3 would be just gaming and dvd player, just like 360, just like last gen and if it were still more expensive and still not selling as well... it'ld end this generation where it is now, in 3rd place.

[Huddymonster]

Cuco you idiot. Look what you just wrote. You first asked is this gaming news? Then you proved why it is gaming news because you said the blu-ray and the ps3 will fail or thrive together. LOL next time read what you write or be smart enough to understand what you are typing.

Also if you state the blu-ray and the ps3 are linked then I like my chances because blu-ray is in a great position and if they do win and they succeed together then it really will fly by the 360 sales figures.

Thanks for playing Cuco

[cdzie1]

They launched the BD 300 $100 less than they wanted. They copied Toshiba and started a 5 free movie promotion. The dropped the PS3 price. Why? Because they are walking away with this thing? Blu-ray knows that HD DVD is a real contender and they are doing all they can to compete (HD DVD has 70% standalone sales in the US & 74% standalone sales in Europe). Even Warner Bros chimed in saying it like HD DVD’s strategy better.

Even a top Sony exec was recently quoted as saying HD DVD would be dead in months! This buffoon was lambasted on all of the high def message boards and is a real embarrassment to Sony. Thankfully, Microsoft’s Peter Moore took the high road and responded by saying he’s seen the latest sales numbers and he’ll see this guy at CES next year!

Wait, does Sony know if they actually lowered the price on PS3 yet? Half the company thinks so, the other half doesn’t. To top it off, the Blu-ray interactive spec isn’t even done yet! Things are a mess in Blu-ray camp! Half completed technology, executives blabbering nonsense, pretend price cuts, a complete copy of Toshiba’s successful promotion…

This is a company in chaos..

[Huddymonster]

I like the part where you said 74% Europe and 70% US for standalone players. Which is correct...oh wait you forgot all those ps3 and pc drives sold. Whats that.. you say people use those for games? So your telling me that blu-ray has sold more movies than hd dvd just purely on the stand alone players. Or IS THE REAL TRUTH that people bought the ps3 knowing they would use it to play blu-ray movies as well.

Also I like how you quoted Peter Moore whose job is to spin anything in favor or Microsoft which supports HD Dvd with its standalone player.

Finally all this chaos you talk about is you taking seperate incidents and putting thm together to make it sound like the apocalypse. I Can do it too.... OMG HD DVD is in CHAOS THEY DROPPED THE PRICE OF THE HD DVD PLAYER TO 200 DOLLARS NAD HAD A PROMOTION WHICH SOLD THEM AT 100 DOLLARS. ALSO THEY HAVE TO THROW UP SALES FIGURES WHICH DONT INCLUDE THE MILLION OF PS3 SALES OUT THERE.

Its fun to play story time.

[ArduousAndy]

cdziel is technically correct since he is saying STANDALONE players. PS3 and pc drives do not count since technically they are not stand alones. True they should count when they announce blu-ray players. But then we have to go and count anything and everything on both sides that play HD-DVD and Blu-ray. If you want to go into semantics.

Technically then disc format in all its forms have lost the format war and Digital download has once. Since for this to play out we can count every single computer or anything and everything that does digital downloads.

However since the numbers are just for stand alones PS3 does not count. Neither do the pc drives (for blu-ray and HD) as well as the HD-dvd drive for the 360.

I will not argue saying that chances are there are people that bught a ps3 as a stand alone since at the time it was cheaper. But the fact is that since it also plays games no matter what the intentions are for purchase the PS3 is a game system first a Blu-ray player second.

As far as Blu-ray disc says yes I truly believe the PS3 did make a HUGE spike in disc sales.

My brother right now has more blu-ray movies then actual PS3 games. So there you go.

True Peter Moore's job is to Spin. So was the guy at sony that stated Hd-dvd will be dead in a couple of months. However Moore whose company does not have as big a stake in Hd-dvd can easily say at the same time "pretty much ya its going the way of the Dodo in a few months thats why we are working a blu-ray player)
The Sony guy needs to say that on Blu-ray since sony has a huge stake.

Will Hd-dvd die in a few months lets just wait and see.

I personally think that the deal that Blu-ray is having is in reference to the sales on Stand alones.

Sure blu-ray may have the most disc sales but if its only because the only system that is actually selling is a game system. It may cheapen the actual product. Look at UMD's they sell movies and are portable. Why has anyone not decided "lets make a UMD player that is not PSP."

Someone posted that Blu-ray is in trouble with all the sales they are having.

I think what is going on is what I stated above. Blu-ray player sales are down (exception on PS3) so they are doing what they can to sell systems.

OR MAYBE (i know this may contradict but this is also a possibilty i see happening)

Blu-ray IS completely and totally dominating on all fronts and are doing a HUGE push (price cut 5 free dics) to finally blow HD out of the water.

Again its a wait and see deal.

Me personally I have an Hd-dvd add on I got a ton of Hd-dvd Movies and my brother again has the ps3 with a ton of blu-ray movies.

So frankly I dont care who wins. But if I was to root for someone it would be HD just so I can say in your face to my brother.

Also CUCO ya dude way to lose your own argument.

[Vip3r]

I love how all 360 fanboys think that the PS3 can only play blu-rays. If for whatever reason that BD did fail the PS3 could just as easily use DVDs like the 360.

[coolmatrix]

http://www.n4g.com/tech/New...

In the latest high-def bundle deal to hit retail, the big box discount chain is giving away two Blu-ray discs to consumers who buy Sony's BDP-S300 Blu-ray Player at a new low price.

Combined with the BDA's recently announced "Five Discs Free" promo, that's a total seven free Blu-rays for lucky Wal-Mart shoppers.

Wal-Mart is offering this promotion to customers online at Walmart.com and in its stores nationwide. The company says the offer is limited and only good while supplies last.

[Odion]

except that they proved that its a very small minority of people who use their PS3 for Blue ray playing.

Also if people want to add in computers Toshiba would rock the hellout of those numbers.

But the most important sale is a stand alone

[Marceles]

Dude, barely anyone is buying stand alone HD players so what do you think people are using to view all of their movies?

[TheMART-sucksdick]

hahahaha you should be.... HD DVD will be dead soon, a lawsuit against MS.... hahahaha it will happen... you will be owned hahahahaha sorry... I will still play my 360... But i will always hate Microsoft.

[Snake_Doctor]

"Counting only standalone players is like MS saying they have cornered the MP3 market excluding ones that start with the letter 'i'.

Toshiba: Suckers, your PS3 BR playing device does not stand alone in its definable box therefore it doesn't exist
Consumers: BAAAHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAH"

anyway if you counted that only 10% used PS3 as a BR player you would still have a substantial lead in hardware.

[drtysouf21]

http://www.n4g.com/industry...

[MrSwede]

Good reminder drtysouf21! Props to you for existing on this site.

[BaMYouRDeaD]

There's one problem with your post Odion. I took part in the survey that you are referring to. The question was: What is the main reason you bought a PS3?. Obviously, the majority answered saying for games. The question was not: Do you use your PS3 for Blu-ray movies. Most of the people I know that have a PS3 have purchased at least 2 Blu-ray movies for it. I myself have 6 movies that I bought, not including the free copy of Talladega Nights that came with my PS3.

EDIT:

Thanks for the bubble guys! (:

[Vip3r]

How do you know how many people are using the PS3 as a dedicated BD player? I guess it's your fanboyism taking over.

[The Swordsman]

With this article showing that Blu-ray is the (appearantly)preferred choice for High-Definition viewing, what are the chances of Microsoft releasing a Blu-ray add-on for the Xbox 360 in the next twelve months?

[Jeremy Gerard]

gunna happen, M$ could care less about this whole format war, they are into the whole downloadable content thing, and i agree it is the future not bluray or HD DVD. I dont care about that format war either, but i do know HD DVD sells more players than bluray; only if you add the ps3 does this change, so there are plenty of hddvd players out there, that format aint going nowhere, its just too large of a market to ignore, they will both survive in the end, dont fall for Sonys hype, hddvd is not going to die, besides, it has superior picture quality on average so the AV geeks will always buy it, even when the dual format players takeover.

[Kleptic]

there was talk about that...that if HD DVD completely died before the end of the 360's life cycle...and if there was a demand for it...they were capable of it...

its unlikely though...simply because of how unlikely it is that HD DVD will completely go away by then...

Its been illustrated on several levels that MS is much more indifferent on the format war than people in their camp want them to be...they just stick to "not forcing it on gamers"...and that is it...other than that it seems they really couldn't care less...

[PS360WII]

HD DVD Promotion Group announced that Toshiba has taken a leading share of the European market for standalone high definition players.

That's right standalone high definition players. PC and PS3 are not standalone players now are they.

[Marceles]

Same strategy that happened with the DVD...PS2 brings out a cheaper DVD option than the stand alone, everyone buys a PS2 with DVD movies, stand alone prices go down more than PS2 price, everyone buys stand alone, DVD format owns

[trueltie5]

Why is this even a discussion ? Blu-ray is obviously going to be the clear choice of high def. HD-dvd is going to obsolete. You know whats funny...I seen some clown come in the other day telling his parents that he needs to buy an hd-dvd player for his 360....I wanted to tell him that HD-dvd and the 360 will be dead soon...Oops im sorry most 360's are already dead. I swear some of these people users live in caves and are behind in this world...

[cuco33]

that continue to misinform the public with your obvious brand loyalty...
i dont care who wins but its obvious that both formats have their advantages... sadly it's the ps3 fans that work are these retail stores preach to customers superiority... kinda reminds me of when i walked into a honda dealer and the young salesman was boasting about how great hondas were in terms of power and speed and albeit true IF MODDED, hondas (non si & type r) are slow as balls.

EDIT: huddy, i recently went to an audiophile/videophile type of store specifically only the best of the best in audio and video components and products. they dont sell nor preach gaming and i asked a few of the guys as it was a slow day for them which they feel is the better format. they agreed that hd dvd might not win the format simply for the fact that ps3 is the biggest ace up BR's sleeve (its the best player, best pick, etc simply stating the firmware upgrades is huge) but as far as which they would pick it was the newer hd dvd stand alones SLIGHTLY because of the upgradability of the systems, they highly praised the ps3 for what hd dvd players can do. they mentioned they sell more hd dvd players than br stand alones and a lot of guys who are gamers own a ps3 and went out and bought stand alone hd dvd player. they also stated that for the regular consumer, they wont buy the components needed for superior audio or video playback so any technical advantages in any player of any format won't even be recognized by the consumer aside from a spec that is preached, but not understood. they hate sites like these, where fanboys preach misinformation of dieing formats. they said both have advantages and both have disadvantages. they also agreed that the format war won't be over for a long long time, saying one is a dieing format is clearly fanboyism... these guys aren't fanboys... if they think a product is crap they wont sell it nor will they allow their customers to buy it at their store. mind u they carry both format players. if they think something is really great, they'll preach it as is. very informative professionals, not someone who makes minimum wage at best buy or circuit city. they also mentioned that a big advantage is the studio support that is clearly in favor for BR camp, that could also be another winner.

let's also face facts as i can easily prove BR movie sales were superior due to the ps3 not having games. look at the charts, when ps3 was released the movie sales soared, once games started to come out and the initial buzz was over, movie sales slowed down. thus far since launch, ps3's lack of games helps BR's movie sales and when games are launched, the movie sales drop. stand alone players only play movies. the format war is FAR from over. we'll see whn ps3 has an abundance of games and how many seld proclaimed 'movie buffs' really buy BR movies when they have a great selection of gaming.

[Huddymonster]

He stating that the kid should not buy the hd dvd player because its a dying format not because blu-ray is a superior format. Lets get this right ok? Blu-ray has only one major advantage as far as technology and that is the space on the disc. However seeing that is is leading in overall players and studio support, it should be the format to support because no one wants to a buy a technology for a soon to be dead format.

Sorry Cuco having a guys opinion doesnt shape a format war. Sales and money does. Right now Blu-Ray has the numbers and the only way hd dvd can have good news is if they ignore the ps3. I think both formats are very similar and a nod can be given either way but with the blu-ray having more space, more players out, and more studio support its only a matter of time.

[cuco33]

then yes BR has more players and not everyone who owns a ps3 uses it for BR but stand alones it's clear the movie buff and tech geeky consumers want hd dvd as stand alone hd dvd wins.

regardless, by the time either format wins, downloadable content will be here as a norm and i'll bet dvd still outsells by a huge margin. most are waiting until a format wins to decide, i for one am in that camp waiting for a standard.

anyone who preaches format war is over is sadly mistaken. think about it, if ps3s are a dominant player figure in the BR sales, then why looking at stand alone player sales it clearly shows time and time again is favored by hd dvd? main reason why CC, BestBuy, blockbuster, etc picked BR is they sell ps3, ps2/ps1 made them ton of money and likewise would like to continue the trend with added high def movie format sales. i think it's dumb, they should be neutral and offer both formats. some studios think the same as they are multiformat

studio support can sway to whomever wins because it is money and it is business... main reason why BR camp won as much support as it has was because of the encryption and security features BR offered, which is done with now since both hd dvd and BR has been cracked. fortunately for studio supporters the cost of burners & disks as well as disk space of high def movies won't affect piracy issues like in dvd movies.

agree or disagree all u want, but until movie sales AND stand alone players BOTH outsell the other, this war is far from over. thusfar the movie sales favor BR, and the stand alone players favor HD DVD. HD DVD didn't have the greatest selection of movies this past quarter, they had more craptastic releases over BR. this quarter it could change, we won't know... only time will tell. dont forget that combined hd dvd and BR only make less than 5% of overall movie sales... dvd still dominates.

[Marceles]

If a non-stand alone hardware's sales are outselling a stand alone AND a non-stand alone hardware sales combined, then this article shouldn't have even been made. Even the fact that Sony sales any stand alone blu-ray players hurts HD-DVD even more. We can talk about hardware and software, since the format IS software sales..blu-ray is a monster, then add that to how many blu-ray players are in people's homes...forget stand alone. At least HD DVD is trying to see a positive out of all of this...but it's not much to save them.

[Valik21]

Why is so difficult for you to understand that who buys a ps3 CAN ALSO watch movies with?. It's a gaming machine and i will buy it for games first, but these doesn't exclude the possibility to own it also as a BR player. If i buy a PS3 and i know it's also one of the best BR players, i will not spend after this another 400-600 for a BR stand-alone, it's foolish. I will use my ps3 as a BR player without spending anymore, like you want. And i'm sure that like 80% of the ps3 owners use it also like a BR player and don't buy beacouse of this another stand-alone, so it's normal to have more hd-dvd stand alone players than BR stand alone players, it's becouse of the PS3 factor, remember it.

[MaximusPrime]

i knew something was missing...

[Salvadore]

It doesn't matter if HD-DVD sells more in Europe, Blu-ray is till leading around the world.

[THAMMER1]

PC drives and PS3's are not. Dedicated stand alone players are what count in a hardware war. Just like with the PS2. Sony sold millions of PS3 but very few games per unit. Xbox and Nintendo sold less units of hardware but had larger attach rates. The format war will swing with the hardware installments.

man there are alot of rookies on this site.

[cdzie1]

According to the Blu-ray Disc Association European Promotions Committee, it says that this claim is “misleading and misrepresentative” of the real and clear market trends in Europe, before admitting that HD DVD “does have sales advantage for several reasons”.

admitting that HD DVD “does have sales advantage for several reasons”.

admitting that HD DVD “does have sales advantage for several reasons”.

admitting that HD DVD “does have sales advantage for several reasons”.

admitting that HD DVD “does have sales advantage for several reasons”.

admitting that HD DVD “does have sales advantage for several reasons”.

[Huddymonster]

They lead in sales for several reasons. THE FIRST ONE IS THEY ARE NOT INCLUDING PS3 and PC DRIVE NUMBERS. LOL wow its like you are trying to be dumb. So lets say just 20% of people with a ps3 in Europe are using it to play highdef movies. IT STILL DOMINATES STANDALONE HDDVD PLAYERS.
Thanks for playing

[XxZxX]

it's good to see a HD-DVD supporter here, you're pretty rare but should at least enuff to keep HD-DVD alive until next year

[MaximusPrime]

Prefer Blue.

[Captain Tuttle]

Downloadable content is the future. Sony's finally going to win a format war and formats are going to be obsolete.

[The Swordsman]

a future that is the tenth generation of gaming. Really though, with modern technology, it isn't feasible to be downloading huge, epic games like Halo, Grand Theft Auto or Final Fantasy. Maybe films or smaller games and such, but even then, that's pushing technology to limit!

[boi]

lol in saying that then the whole dl thing shouldve won already...but it hasn't!

mayb in the future yes but that be another what 10years or so (mayb more then 10 years)...

remember downloadable content was already introduce way b4...but its still not the way yet...people still prefer renting/buying ect

[XxZxX]

I agree with lone_swordman.. First of all, they are still quite large numbers of users using dial-up. Second, none of XBOX 360 and PS3 are equipped with TB hard disk. With 120GB hard disk, I can only download and install 5 24gb games which is slow as hell before my hard disk is full. Blu-ray is here to stay for a while.

[drtysouf21]

http://www.n4g.com/industry...

[dale1]

ps3 is a blue ray player and a whole lot more thats why i bought it
its got a mix of things not just one, games ,internet,photos,music, and films sh*t it was a snip at £425 at $499 its as cheap as chips

[boi]

yep agreed but most of all your missing on the important part not every1 want to wait for a dl to finish or even just dl anything form the internet...they would just go and rent/buy from store...or just out to see what is worth picking to rent/buy for the day/night to watch...with download contents u don't have the feeling of going to store...not the same...if u know what i mean

but yea dl content won't be popular anytime now!

[XxZxX]

i do, imagine download the whole blue-dragon or MSG4 of internet, for those in dialup on lower than 1mbps connection people, it will take day for them. They would rather pick it up of the store. Also, with downloadable content, you can't rent or borrow games since they have pretty strong DRM. I'm sure nobody want that.

[The Swordsman]

Also, imagine the huge job loses the movement from of selling games on discs to selling games as downloadable content would cause.

[boi]

more like weeks if they r on 1mbp or months on dial up lol

well 8mbp speed broadband and something thats about 700mb takes well depending but in less then 3hours...if your just dl the 1 file if more then ofcourse longer

so anyways dl content isn't the way yet but near future will most properly...but its hard to say if it will ever be popular or not

[Lord Anubis]

"This is simply because those who buy a standalone player are interested solely in buying and watching movies and other video content, whereas those with HD drives built into games consoles are primarily interested in games."

if that was true you wouldn't see blu-ray movies outselling HD-DVD movies.

[Shaka2K6]

' ' how is this related to gaming? ' '

Its not duh this is news for flamers now.

so we all knew Blu-ray was going to win, theres was never really any hope for h-dvdead.

[ApocalypseShadow]

even if downloading is the future,and i agree,you will NEVER get rid of a hard copy.

as said earlier,not everyone has the speed,not everyone has the space to hold all that content.only delusional individuals will believe that everyone upgrades at the same time.

everyone has the same house space
everyone has the same car speed
everyone has the same job salary

you're delusional.most of you that thought hd-dvd would win are now jumping on the digital download bandwagon.that's how sad you guys are.when talking about japanese ps3 sales,you say sony is getting owned by nintendo.but neglect that microsoft is getting destroyed in japan.for the second time.xbox failed over there too.

this is reality:

sony has more support for movies and make some of the best movies that will never be on hd-dvd.spin that f*ckers.

bluray holds more space than hd-dvd and uses the same codecs.and has better copy protection.spin that f*ckers.

microsoft only supported hd-dvd to slow sony down in the adoption of bluray.how many commercials do you see microsoft putting across the airwaves supporting IT'S OWN ADD-ON?NONE! spin that f*ckers.

hd-dvd is losing because more players-ps3,drive add-ons,stand alones (TOGETHER F*CKERS) are whooping toshiba's @ss.so they try to exclude all other bluray devices to say their winning.but movies sales don't support that.spin that f*ckers.

elite gamer saw the light and bought a ps3.bladestar is seeing the light and is getting the ps3.more of you are converting than sony fans to 360.spin that f*ckers.

if you want HD GAMES and HD MOVIES all at the same time,built in and more of it,bluray and ps3 are a better choice.and that's excluding reliability.

spin that....you already know.why should i say it again?

[boi]

it was turning into a nice conversation here but then ur comment came up!

pls if u dont like 360 keep it to yourself

[razer]

They would of included an HD-DVD drive in the 360. Imagine how this "war" would look then.. I'm a proud owner of 1 Blu-ray movie and it was given to me free with my purchase. I won't drop another dime into that crap.. The only HD movies I watch i download from Xbox Live Marketplace or off of Digital Satellite/cable.

MS simply went with the best HD format at the time of launch. HD-DVD was a superior technology at launch, but now Blu-ray has adopted the proper codecs(developed in part with MS thank you very much) and now Blu-ray is doing well. For anyone to connect HD-DVD and it's failure to the 360 simply does not know what they are talking about. Sony's power is it's movie studio support and their large investments in their own studio's.

[00]

Why is this in the PS3 section?.

[Lumbo]

this threads never fail to amuse me ...
"my dad is better than your dad, no mine, no mine, my dad will kick your dad's butt, no mine will"

And round and round it goes. Next week Toshiba will announce that they managed a stunning 100% marketshare of all Toshiba HD players, no other company has sold any Toshiba HD players, oh my god. Ok, cutting out some of the competition by defining a "hardware pool" where you might claim victory is quite childish.

Lets hope this so called "war" is done with after x-mass latest, so people can stop posting this crap here.

[WilliamRLBaker]

cause by numbers ps3 sales are what account for like 50% of those blu ray player and movie sales.

[erosevaporator]

But why the hell doesn't my wal-mart carry more blu-rays than "Night at the Museum" and "Littile Man?!?!?" It's the dumbest thing IO have ever seen. They alwasy have these damn posters up for "buy it on bluray....", and yet, they never have any of the movies on bluray. That's why I go amazon, other than the fact that wal-mart rapes customers and communities. I own 45 of 'em now. But I own a few hd-dvds as well.

[paracardium]

I use my ps3 for movies also. Probably everyone likes to at least watch one movie on it. Can't wait for classics like Evil dead trilogy to appear on Blueray which it will since that company backing Blueray to.

[Arkham]

Hearing that Anchor Bay was supporting Blu-ray was music to my ears. I collect horror films & books, so this is exactly what I needed. The only hold-out now is Universal. I want the Gill-Man and Karloff in 1080p, baby! ;)

[Bloodmask]

associate HDDVD with Microsoft, it is Toshiba.

HDDVD player do outsell BD players every month usually 4 to 1. Standalone players are the only ones that should be counted bc it is known that consumers bought it solely for movies.

Only 13% of people watch movies on their console. You can google it I don't feel like it.

It is like counting every PC, XBOX, XBOX360 and PS2 as a DVD player....and we all know not everyone with these devices watch movies on them.

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

Sony defence group, wow anything Sony nowdays is just pathetic and why is it that all these people do is b!tch and complain. Oh thats right they are associated with Sony "we whine, b!tch, moan, sign petitions, lie about who is winning and cry like babies when we don't get what we want." and then they b!tch when the other guys use simular tactics LOL SONY=LOSERS