Classy Gamer responds to Roger Ebert, film critic of the Chicago Sun-times, that recently reiterated his antiquated standpoint that Videogames cannot be art.
I tend to think that they can be art, most definitely. However, just like other forms of art or expression, everything is subjective, including the answer to the big, overall question, "Are video games art?".
That's pretty much the standpoint of the article. Videogames CAN be art. Are ALL videogames art? No. Just as much as not all movies or books are art. But still, saying that video games CANNOT be art is delusive.
Video Games ARE art.
I'm just going to disagree with you all and say video games aren't art. Whatever video games are they're fun and i'm passionate to come here debate about video games all day.
Everybody has different opinions about what art is. The question shouldn't be "are video games art?" or "can video games be art?", it should be "what is art to you?". Some people believe art is anything that comes from the mind, some believe it's just the ability to transfer emotion, and some will tell you it's anything that requires a lofty amount of talent and skill. Maybe it's all of the above or more. Art is a difficult thing to encapsulate in one single definition, so don't argue about what is or isn't art. Take some time and think about what art is to you instead of arguing what makes art.
Brazil has the right idea. I don't want to throw on a black turtleneck, grow a beard and argue about what is or isn't art. If somebody thinks Metal Gear is the greatest story ever told, I can disagree and pick it apart, but who the hell am I to say it isn't art? "I understand that 'old' film critics like Ebert are so absolutely frightened by the growing popularity of gaming over filmed media, that they actually feel compelled to try and 'shoot them down' in an attempt to protect their own job and popularity." This sentence is driving me nuts. What, are you going to take his job? One medium isn't a threat to the other. Video games aren't going to muscle out movies. I think you're trying too hard to take a shot at him, here. I don't agree with Ebert - I think he's making broad statements about something he doesn't really understand. I definitely agree with you that video games can be art, but I've never played a game that I would feel right using as an example. I could show Roger Ebert plenty of games like Uncharted or Final Fantasy that he would probably say are entertaining, but not art. There is no Chinatown of video games. We just don't have a Bicycle Thief, an M or a Shawshank Redemption. Not that I think we need one, because games play by a very different set of rules than these flicks, but I'd imagine that's what Ebert was looking for when he decided that games weren't art. I wrote way too much and I am a giant nerd - at least everybody can agree with that.
just imagine if a game like Okami or Shadow of the Colossus were movies....we all know Ebert would be giving it two FAT thumbs up
Flower is art without question. IF movies are considered art than so should games. If this is considered art http://www.southernmillfloo... Than so should this http://www.youtube.com/watc...
SH!T!!! I had forgotten how awesome the graphics in MGS are.
200% agree with flower
Roger Ebert... let's face it... is a film critic. You really need "art" directions from him? -End statement
Not really, we don't, but someone needs to let him know :D Guy got a big, big head :D
Odd that you'd get 5x more disagrees than agrees for those statements. Ebert has strong support from N4G viewers? Or are there reading comprehension concerns here? Anyway, it's ridiculous that Ebert thinks any medium cannot be art. He can be extremely obstinate, though. I remember how he completely missed the boat on the movie Blue Velvet. Even after discussing the movie with the director and reviewing the movie more than once, he never overcame his initial emotional reaction to a nude scene in the movie that upset him even though it's interviews with the cast and crew show that his assumptions about that scene were inaccurate. He'll probably never change his mind about video games; once he's made up his mind almost nothing can change it, which I consider to be one of his greatest weaknesses as a film critic.
I get a lot of "haters". -End statement
Roger Ebert looks like an old lesbian.
Not if they are on the 360, then they become flops
You know if you think about about it 360 games seems like mindless shooting games to me no art found and I consider art to being Graphics and story. I ain't seeing much of that.
The inevitable rebuttal argument. Nice.
You know, I prefer to write a rebuttal article proving him wrong, than not write anything and have the usual troll comment sarcastically with "The inevitable rebuttal argument. Nice." :D
This is so obvious we dont need an article, even if its a response to a man from the stone age. You what he, and us to if we reach old age, must understand is that like technology and society, art evolves. Want to know if this is true or not? Ask yourself if we as humans beings are still drawing on the walls in caves around the world. The man failed to succumb to the evolution of art.
Murumasa is art and it is also a video game
The big problem with the whole art debate is it's never been given a clear definition, it needs one, too much legal gray area that depending on the judge you can be sent to prison for "obscene" which changes from person to person (and the miller test is crap, it changes from person to person based on their view of humanity as a whole)The debates been going on for over 100 years, iirc when a artist signed a toilet and called it art. I define art as something one makes with a skill dynamically, as in if you paint a painting it's art, but to paint car bumpers on a assembly line the exact same way isn't art. I would use the definition many others tend to use, "the use of skill and imagination in the creation of aesthetic objects, environments, or experiences that can be shared with others" but I feel programming is a art, and hence changed it so it would be able to fit in there, technichally, when you count in the GUI and such it brings forth it makes it part of that, but I think my definition brings it in much better for those who don't understand what a GUI (general user interface, such as HUD) is would help them understand. Contractors? Artists Video game devs? Artists Proggramers? Artists Musicians? Artists Porn Stars? Artists I find all the people who bring in this "emotion" thing art has to have and try to make it this big complicated thing are far more vocal than the ones who have already made their minds up with a definition similar to mine, I enjoy abstract art and cannot feel emotion from a large amount of it, but I still classify it as art, for example I saw a piece while touring a college recently that was a 3D abstract piece displayed outside, it reminded me of a corkscrew, and is art, but doesn't invoke any emotion to me, none the less the same people who get on the emotion kick will say it's art.
three Russell Meyer 70's soft porn flicks doesn't get to determine what is art and what isn't. Anyone who can write can be a film critic.
Reason I say that is because what is the first thing that pops into mind when u mention, "Videogames"? Of course most people (Gamers) think of it as, "Fun". Where others outside of the video game world would prolly think of videogames as a waste of time, not all but most none gamers. In my opinion art is rare to find in most videogames but there are games that can be defined as art. A few examples are games like. 1. Shadow of The Colossus 2. Ico 3. Metal Gear Solid Series 4. Zelda Series 5. God of War Series 6. FF3 FF6 FF7 FF8 FFX FFTactics 7. Okami 8. Uncharted Series Sorry if I forgot to name more but those were examples as games & series that in my opinion fall in the catagory as art. I think what seperates these games from all the rest (With a few others I forgot to mention) is that these games arent just games that are, "Fun" to play. These are games I like to call an, "Immersive & Cinematic Expirience" that takes the "Fun" expirience to "The Highest Level" where emotions come into play aswell.
So what is art? Only the stuff you like?
Well I never said that what I listed was the definite definition of art. I was saying that those are the games that pop in my mind when I think of "Art". Its an opinion. Yeah of course we could also say that games like flower or echo chrome can fall into the catagory aswell but then if were going to add those games then we mightest will say all games are art, which they are in reality because they are drawn out like a painting but my opinion was trying to answer the definition of "Can Videogames Be Art" based on the article. Like I said in my opinion personally when I think of art, the first thing that pops to mind is a "Fine Painting". Thats why I based my opinion with those list of games as examples of videogames that define that "Fine Painting". If I were to just list games like haze, halo odst, lair, wii fit, those games may have some sort of art in them but doesnt fit the "Art" based from the article.
by its very definition, art cannot be delineated. to say that something cannot be art is simply to say that you dont think it could be or that you dont take or accept it as such. The reason we gamers have taken such offense is that roger states his opinion in a very factual, absolute, high falutin manner. i mean, if i stood up right now and said " Paintings cannot be art" i would just get brushed off because to so many people, paintings are gripping statements and universally considered art. This is how we think of games and one mans opinion, especially an old, practically blind opinion, should be brushed away just as promptly.
photography is art though....lol..wow...i took a picture of something someone or something else created....thats art...what utter crap...I'd wipe my as$ with the mona lisa before I'd give up any of my favorite video games...I'd hit that weenerless statue of david with a sledgehammer and take a dump on anything picasso did...picasso's "work" looks like the inane scribblings of a bi-polar panda bear....ebert..your a washed up film critic..your opinion is utter fecal matter.
Especially some 2D games are pure amazing works of art, like Whispered World, all older sierrea adventures, Final Fantsy 7-8-9 and a bit 10, zelda etc etc
Humans can only create 2 things. Tools with practical uses and Art. You can combine the two by having Practical Art but that's not creating something new, it's innovating.
To me, being someone who's been doing Art and Graphic Design for god knows how long, I personally, think that art is an expression of ideologies through a creative medium. Videogames come under this, as do films, literature. Any videogame can be art, but it's the application of that expression which imo, determines whether or not you can consider them art, or just mindless entertainment. It's all subjective. Example? Oboro Muramasa defines the concept of Videogames as art imo. Where as, something like Manhunt, I don't consider art. Just entertainment.
First, it's quite obvious that games are using components from other mediums widely recognized as art : music, pictures, storytelling... But I think that the point is "do videogames add something arty to this mix ?" My answer is : Everyone can just think whatever he wants, it all depends on how you define art ! Are we talking about one specific product (one song, one movie, one videogame...), about a specific medium (music, painting, film making) or about any process that can create something of any given shape (or something immaterial) with the purpose of providing emotions ? I personnally think that anything can be art as long as people want it to be, or as long as the creation can make you feel something even if its creator doesn't say it's art. Now let's be clear, "art" doesn't mean "good" or "quality" or whatever. There are a lot of things I consider as utter crap that can be called art, and a lot of great stuff that have not been made to create emotions and therefore might not be called art at all.
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