Halo 2 E3 demo was "smoke and mirrors"

Bungie's admitted to Eurogamer that the Halo 2 E3 2003 presentation was a fanciful snapshot of a game that could never be recreated on Xbox hardware.

"The graphics engine that we showed at E3 2003, driving around the Earth city... That entire graphics engine had to be thrown away, because you could never ship a game on the Xbox with it," said Chris Butcher, engineering lead on Halo 2.

"Through putting ourselves through hell, we were able to do a five-minute demo of it, but after we came back from E3 we had to admit that this graphics engine was never going to work - it was never going to support the kind of environments that are really important for a Halo game."

"So we literally scrapped the entire graphics engine and started from scratch."

[mushroomwig]

So in that video nobody was actually playing the game? Or was it being played on a PC?

[toaster]

How about you read the article first.. lol. It said nothing about the E3 video being "fake"/pre-recorded.

[Giant_Chibi]

Edit*
Well, that's not nice. The submitter changed the title. :(

here's the original title, before it was stealthily changed.
http://i176.photobucket.com...

Not saying the trailer was fake, but if you look at the title above, it clearly says fake at the end.

So of course, someone is going to logically assume that it's fake.

So, whoever submitted the article is clearly scrambling the actual words of the article. I'll admit, saying it was fake is pretty harsh. It's more like Bungie had an earlier build that they couldn't use, so they scrapped it for something more feasible.

Like everyone else pointed out, most developers do this. It's usually something they target for or it's a rough idea in the making. Things get cut and changed like a film in the editing studio.

[Inside_out]

Great developer...telling it like it is...Halo 2 was awesome...many great moments and the multi player put xbox live on the map and changed everything...nice to see some honesty for once..."Only on brand X " marketing is smoke N mirrors...lol...KZ2 CGI had the fanboys jumping off buildings...Nowhere near that level of fidelity.....Biggest con in the history of gaming...Bought my PS3 because of KZ2 ( holds head in shame )....hope KZ3 is alot better...Moving on...

[christian hour]

I thought this was pretty common knowledge to anyone who bought Halo 2 in the metal case. They pretty much show you this and talk about how much it screwed up their developing time because of it. It's the reason halo 2 ended so abruptly and had so much chopped content. They started out with an engine too powerful for the console and had to restart from scratch.

This is old news been repeated by bungie and then been recycled as fresh news to use as flamebait for you know who and it looks like most people here took the bait. Halo 2 was a brilliant game but it was nothing like the game they wanted it to be... And either was halo 3.

It think it has become clear that Microsoft were constantly breathin down their backs with deadlines to deliver a game that by name alone would move consoles. Halo Reach is their first game they've made since they went indipendant again (odst doesnt count been a glorified expansion) and its looking like they might actual achieved their aim this time. Just as they did with the original halo.

Now bring it out on the ps3 so i can play it! I miss my 360 :(

*edit* reading the comments on the article at eurogamer has made me want to jump ship. Straight away people we're commenting on it been a story several years old, even the quotes are from back then. They aren't recent at all. I tire of the wailing immaturity of a little more than half the people who visit n4g. Yet I'm doomed to be stuck here forever because its a handy one stop shop for all gaming news. I went several months without reading or posting comments on this site. I remember thinking the addition of a gamer zone and open zone would perhaps make this a better place, but still you get biased people coming in here blabbing on about the purchase they made was much better than the purchase of person X... Why the hell am I even blabbing on here? All this is going to do is lose me some bubbles. I guess its in the hopes that someone who has a say in this website may do something to fix this problem. If a mod feels the need to chop this edit, go right ahead.

[Reibooi]

It's always kind of annoyed me that we never got THAT Halo game. It looked so epic and the giant city wide combat was something alot of people myself included were looking forward to but we never got it.

ODST came close but the game focuses a bit more on stealth then a Master Chief like rush and blow everything up tactic. However towards the end of ODST came quiet close to delivering the type of experience we saw in this video.

What was nice to see was despite this entire sequence not being in the final Halo 2 build all the things that made people excited did make it in like Duel wielding and Hijacking.(combos didn't make it in but then again it was a goofy looking idea and people were kinda like Yay? as a reaction to it)

[3XP]

Why are we rehashing sh!t from 2003?

[darthv72]

the one that bill gates introduced. Didnt matter to me if it was all cg prerendered bull piss. I dug that intro with the comm chatter and MC in the lift heading to the bay. That orchestrated music is some of the best.

I actually prefer it over the halo 3 reveal trailer and have both on my psp whenever I want to watch. Classic...the right way to do a trailer. Dont reveal to much and leave the audience wanting more.

[BakedGoods]

Really, you bought a PS3 just for Killzone 2 and weren't impressed? Right.

I laughed at the CG-smoke and mirrors Sony pulled on us with the first Killzone trailer. However, having platinum'ed Killzone 2 I can safely say it is still one of the best-looking games ever made.

You sound like a fanboy who's bs'ing about purchasing a PS3. You've probably never even played Killzone 2. Nice try though, hold your head in shame for that one.

[lil Titan]

Halo 2 was short that was the only bad thing everything else was pretty much on point from what i can remember. cant speak for online since i didnt back then and still dont believe i should pay for online but playing with friends was cool

someone should bring up some Halo 3 screens and video from E3 and show it was "smoke and mirrors" no one really cares about Halo 2 anymore if it was fake or not whats the point

[Rainstorm81]

why does this matter 7 years later?

[Shepherd 214]

Most of you really dont know anything do you?

Its not hard to understand or figure out. Yes, the demo was actually being played live in front of an audience. Yes, many of the same things you saw in the demo were features in the real Halo 2 game, such as vehicle hijacking, swapping weapons with random soldiers, etc. Yes, the graphics in the Halo 2 demo were similar to the actual graphics in the real game.

But, what they are trying to say is that the world that they had rendered for the demo was not possible to do for a full game. The Original Xbox hardware could not handle such massive levels with so much going on at once and with the level of graphical power that was being displayed, so they had to downgrade a bit and cut some stuff up to make what you saw in the demo actually work for the game.

If any of you actually played Halo 2 from start to finish, which i highly doubt many of did, then you will see that the E3 demo is not very far at all from the actual game. That alone helps you to understand what they are trying to explain in this article much, much better. The rest is the simple ability to read the article correctly.

[bjornbear]

why am i not surprised...many other devs do this, they even did it on PS3 with KZ2

difference is, at least KZ2 final product ended up looking better than the CG video xD

[gnothe1]

come on now, KZ2 DID NOT end up looking BETTER than that CGI that was shown, there were parts of the game that looked great but the overall presentaion DID NOT look as good as what was shown off as early gameplay.so dont go to claiming it as so.

killzone looked great, its probably the 3rd best looking game in my eyes behind uncharted(2nd) an GOW3 as the best but it did not surpass that video!!

[zootang]

http://generationdreamteam....

Take a look for yourselves. IMO I think it came pretty close if not surpassed it.

[Giant_Chibi]

lol and that's not even the final build yet.

In this build, you can clearly see rico is much younger looking.

In the final build rico is much older and the graphics were even better.

So, yes. I'd say Killzone 2 did surpass it's cg video.

edit*

no cgi comparison here, but here's the several builds
http://www.ps3blog.de/wp-co...

[Flanders]

OMG.

Talk about epic ownage by Sony and the PS3. I remember the cries of how the PS3 would never be able to put out the 'impossible' Killzone 2 original trailer graphics and Sony ends up not only matching the 'impossible' trailer, they surpass it.

Crazy to imagine what the PS3 will crank out for Killzone 3.

No wonder Killzone 2 generates so much fear from non-PS3 owners.

This is what your games can look like when you are masters of console graphics hardware design like Sony is:

http://boardsus.playstation...

You don't need to fake screenshots and footage when you have the godly graphical power of the PS3.

[Halo3 MLG Pro]

LMAO! The final product looking better than the e3 cg video? Oh man, you sony fanboys are so silly.

[Nitrowolf2]

you just got KillZOWNED

[bjornbear]

i understand your point, and yeah the CG does have more "stuff" going on and stuff, since it is a movie, but the actually look, the realism and the quality of the models are superior in the game, just take a look for yourself =)

im not trying to defend KZ2 visual fidelity, i don't need to =P, its just Guerilla games did a good job at proving to everyone that, even if it was a "fake" gameplay demo, the game did match up to it at least =)

all im saying is, every dev does this =) some just don't pull it off like others

@ Halo - can't see what you are saying buddy sorry, try PM if you have a valid point (so in other words, don't)

[Flanders]

You can just feel the seething hatred Killzone 2 generates. When Sony showed off the game running real time with graphics that were better than what Xbox fans and the idiots at beyond3d all claimed were 'impossible' it was like there was going to be some sort of Jim Jones style mass suicide amongst Xbox owners.

Killzone 2 surpassing its 'never possible because it's CG level graphics' has to be the all time Epic Ownage ever dished out by a console.

[Halo3 MLG Pro]

LOL. Killzone 2 doesn't generate any jealousy. Calm down now. The game failed. Was not the Halo killer that most of you prayed for. Nobody cares for Killzone. LOL!

[The Wood]

funny that nothing on the ps3 looks on par with it....STILL, maybe halo reach right halo mlg...lol.

[Sitris]

You would know as you were playing it online today right? Or me who got the platinum absolutly thought it sucked right? You might not be jealous, but my 360 friends play it every time they come over, and they love thier precious halo. It has sold nearly 2.4 million copies, that is by no means a failure haha it has sold more than mass effect, so in sales wise it is better than mass effect? You can not deny that killzone is now a fps front runner selling more than most other shooters out so MLG, you should be jealous

[Eamon]

The thing is, that KZ2 CGI wasn't even that great. Compare it to Advent Children and you'll see.

Although if that CGI was in-game then yeah, it'd be pretty amazing.

[IdleLeeSiuLung]

Yet all of this graphics talk has little bearing on the actual user experience. It is game play and art direction that affects game experience the most!

[2Spock]

While i think the only thing good about killzone 2 was it graphics, but the only way anybody can say it looks just as good or better than the CGI trailer is if ray charles or stevie wonder said it.

[Rhythmattic]

Halo3 MLG Pro. The stuff you spew.... The OZ >>>>>>>

Its more your style.

Correction........ you have no style.

[Therealspy03]

look, i know that you ps3 fanboys by default love every exclusive and automatically hate everything related to halo. but could you please get out of all the xbox articles trying to force it on people that killzone 2 is a better game than it actually is.

it's a really lousy game. and no, the graphics are NOWHERE near that 2005 e3 showing. you are kidding yourselves if you believe that. that video was also the reason i got my ps3 (that and MGS4 - which actually delivered), killzone 2 was a midnight purchase for me. and it remains the ONLY game i've traded or sold this entire generation. it's that bad.

you know, fanboys. you don't have to shower praise on every exclusive like you're trying to justify your decision to boycott the other systems. just admit you're too stubborn to enjoy anything else and come to terms with your obsession with building up sub-par titles way above their actual level of quality. you did it with heavenly sword, you did it with LBP, you did it with infamous.

just let games be okay games. don't create unreachable expectations, then claim that these games didn't fall well short of the hype.

[Shepherd 214]

It really does make you guys feel good to say that KZ2 looks better than CGI doesnt it?

The problem with that logic though is that if you go back and watch it, the CG used to render the early KZ2 trailer isnt even very good compared to other uses of CG, so KZ2 surpassing it in the final game wasnt as hard as you people make it out to be. Sorry but its true.

KZ2 looks really good and is one of the best looking console games, but get your head out of your asses for a second.

[Cajun Chicken]

Odd. This looks seriously like ODST...

[bobdog626]

You just don't know what your up against.May Allen Wake's Light Shine light so you may see my friend.Halo Reach is a Killer App and nothing on the PS3 will stop it.Smoke and mirror's my @$$

[superrey19]

haha so halo reach is an app now?

[sid4gamerfreak]

you gotta get used to n4g...( you have to literally love kz2 cause if you dont or say anything bad about it, your gonna get a lot of disagrees)

[Therealspy03]

Amen

[smurfee]

This person speaks the truth, that's why I only lurk on n4g and never comment.

[xg-ei8ht]

I honestly thought that was halo reach.

My bad.

[Cold 2000]

I knew Sony fanboys can't read.

[superrey19]

maybe, but at least they ain't blind like some 360 fanboys.

[Therealspy03]

that's true...you aren't blind. you seem to be able to find your way into EVERY article that has nothing to do with ps3 so you can troll and take away bubbles from anyone who doesn't agree with your very narrow and biased perspective.

[superrey19]

Ironic that u think my views are narrow minded and biased yet you don't say anything about the guy I was responding to which had a similar comment. If your gonna point out people as fanboys and being narrow minded at least point them all out not just people that disagree with YOUR perspective.

[BeaArthur]

I might care that they used a fake demo if Halo 2 hadn't been such a great game. However, since I wasn't disappointed by the final product I will let it slide.

[jkhan]

Well they said that the halo 3 reveal trailer was all in-game as well and the final game wasn't even close.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[Eamon]

Yeah I noticed that as well. That was just a teaser trailer though.
I'm guessing this was Bungie's goal in terms of graphics but couldn't quite make it.

[Strikepackage Bravo]

it actually did end up looking like the trailer, peep this, you have to look at Halo3s graphics in the cinema mode because you cant see master chief while your playing since its 1st person.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[stuna1]

Them letting everyone down real easy on what to expect for reach IMO! From their own words it would have been impossible, sure you can rebuild an engine but sooner or later you are going to run out of ways to maximise it and things will start looking dated and unable to compete with todays standards in the industy IMO.

[SixZeroFour]

and what i think this is, is YEARS OLD news that tries to get the audience to believe that what you see in the recent REACH trailers isnt what you are going to see because of what has happened in the past

[wissam]

Hello. we are in 2010.

[Fishy Fingers]

I must of watched that video several hundred times with friends when we were younger and when Halo 2 finally released it was, "huh?!".

[tudors]

I have played Halo 2 from begining to end and it did look this good, this is actually from the game.

[Fanb0y]

Yeah, even to me, the E3 demo seemed more than plausible.

The part 'impossible to re-create on xbox hardware' was probably the city drive-through part. The scope was actually quite huge.

In the article, Bungie does state how the original plan for Halo 2 was actually Halo 2 and 3 combined, and how they were over-ambitious. I guess they had to scale everything back from their goals.

[tudors]

Have you played the game? because I have, how about you show the actual article because as far as I am concerned unless I have selective memory this matches the game I have played.

[tudors]

I just remember it looked pretty good, I guess it's the same as when people 1st played KZ2, it looked good but not as good as the tec demo, guess I am not a graphics hore because I never noticed the difference when it was released.

[avengers1978]

7 years ago, and It's an article now.
News Flash, MS has always done this, and if you think that they still are not, then you are wrong.
Halo 3 was the same way, and Reach will be the same way.
MS lies it's what they do, It's only second to spending money.
They lie and spend money

[mxrider2]

lol was the a secret level i beat halo 2 about 3 times never saw tht level once

[xoxideu]

Halo Reach demo was "smoke and mirrors"
Halo Reach is all "smoke and mirrors"
Halo Reach will be "smoke and mirrors"
Halo Reach was always "smoke and mirrors"
Halo Reach looks like another "smoke and mirrors"
Halo Reach 2.5.1 beta was "smoke and mirrors"
Halo Reach "smoke and mirrors"

[TooTall19]

Halo 2 still turned out to be the best shooter of that entire generation.

[JonnyBigBoss]

Counter-Strike was infinitely better and more popular.

[gamejediben]

@TooTall19 You must be joking.

Halo 2 was an abomination to many of us Halo CE fans. They took out all the best guns and destroyed the credibility of the story with its just plain awful writing. I gave it 2 weeks and then went back to Halo CE and tried to forget about Halo 2. None of the other Halo games have come close to the original either. But even Halo CE doesn't compare to masterpieces of game design like CounterStrike or Battlefield 2. The only reason Halo is relevant AT ALL is because it brought a modicum of the PC experience to consoles. And Halo 2 threatened to take even THAT away from the Halo franchise.

[TooTall19]

You like shooters for the story. I think gameplay is more important. I like the best online mp consoles have seen for that time. You think the story is more important.

[RayRay36]

LMAO
Thats funny

[gamejediben]

@TooTall19

Story IS important but Battlefield 2 and Counter-Strike have no story at all but they are still better games than all the halos and gears of wars and call of dutys combined. But you wouldn't care about those games since console shooters are the only shooters that matter to you. That was the point I was trying to make. You obviously don't know WHY Halo CE was such a big deal because you think Halo 2 was better than it.

[JonnyBigBoss]

That's pretty sad.

[ForROME]

I agree HALO 2 was "just ok" good play but not close to HALO CE Caliber however HALO 3 made up for it but most of all HALO2 Showed what Multi player was all about which is why its seen as a sucess

[kevinx1000]

It's not like this looks better than halo 2, so what gives?
i would've loved to see that ending in the final game though. love that part!

[Demarco156]

ms lies?

nooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[TaylorMade]

This is typical of MS... Project Milo anyone...

[spektical]

screw that, more like project natal.

that thing is going to fail harder than anything. In the spanish video you can hear a guy saying this doesn't work - he says it in spanish. I know, because i speak spanish as well.

M$ is paying these people to say good things about their product, and once the consumers get there hands on it they will cry foul.

[rezzah]

That looked pretty cool, i mean like back then to play that would of been awesome. Too bad they never did it. lol Kinda sucks that they showed something completly different that the final build.

[spektical]

Halo3 MLG Pro - 7 hours ago

3.5 -
LMAO! The final product looking better than the e3 cg video? Oh man, you sony fanboys are so silly.
----

or maybe your just blind. I would expect that from a kid with "Halo" in his SN.

[ForROME]

But heres is the real question why are we talking about HALO2? Why not just start talking about Zelda 2, Mario 2 etc while we at it, were really running out of things to talk about on this site.

[N4BmpS]

Now Bungie why are telling us this now does it matter three Halo games later? And if someone kept asking you about this particular video u should have told them to suck it.

[jack who]

omg no am selling my copy right now!!!

[ReBurn]

Wow, that was 7 years ago and the original Xbox has been dead for years.

Why is this news now?

[danielle007]

Having a graphics engine, then changing it because you realized it just wouldn't work out, isn't really "smoke and mirrors" that's realizing - "Hey, if we want Halo 2 to have the environments that we want, this graphics engine just won't do, so we'll have to start over."

I mean, from the way they talk, it wasn't a deliberate illusion to pull one over on gamers, it was they made a really great graphics engine, but it just wasn't feasible for them to make the game with it. Bungie's still gold in my book.

[Hotel_Moscow]

wait a minute is this halo 3

[Enigma_2099]

I've got nothing to add, except... you people are just too silly for words.

[Premonition]

one thing that made me laugh about this video was when the video started and some guy in the background yelled "OMG!" like he nutted in his pants or something.

[The BS Police]

It was ebcause of that Demo Halo 2 became my msot anticapted game ever, even then not even Halo 3 to me had me as hyped up as this game.

Sadly, the final game left me disapointed to the point that I still hold this against Bungie from time to time.

[jalen247]

That footage wasn't all that impressive. I think the Xbox could have handled it. The Xbox was a very powerful system and it had better looking games than this.

I think Bungie dropped the ball and didn't have the talent to optimize the engine and had to start from scratch.

[silverchode]

same thing with reach?

[RabeloNext]

I m a real fan of games and all games types (I own all system and a good PC machine), but I always HALO fan aтв halo never impress my in graphics part, I really think BUNGIE not make a gooв work in HALO 3 and ODST in talks about graphics, but all another parts is awesome, HALO 2 and 3 have the best ON line gaming I ever played, if have good graphics its perfect(but nothing is perfect).

Uncharted 2 has a good graphics but U finish the game once and never play it anymore, same with Killzone (poor on line game).

The industry of games always make thing like that... halo 3 trailer not even close with final game.... the first Reach trailer was different from in games we see now.......

AND THE MOST FAKE IN THE HISTORY OF GAMES>>>> KILLZONE 2 CGI trailer and SONY says it In game.

Now for ALAN Wake I think is different, because I see the trailers a improvements in time time after time, the firsts trailers is worse than the last one...... last wait.........

[magicwalnuts]

So that's why the campaign for Halo 2 sucked huge balls. The biggest gaming dissapointment in my life IMO, it had an ambitious story that would have matched Halo CE if it hadn't been wrapped in a 6 hour long hideously designed campaign. the MP was good for dual wielding....otherwise I could have gone and played BF2 which was about 10 times better and subscription free.

[OhReginald]

I already knew this when I first played halo 2's single player campagin. Total ripp-off.

[Gobuz]

Is it me or does that still look like crap? And they say the Xbox couldn't do this? Halo Reach look better than this vid, so are they lying about that?

[CountDracula]

Halo reach is not coming out for the original Xbox you ignorant tard!

[Meryl]

I hope halo reach is not the same, I mean if it is it looks nowhere near as good as any exclusives on ps3, so if it comes out looking just like halo:odst there are going to be a lot of disappointed fans, and it will prove once and for all MS only tactic = smoke and mirrors.