Digital Foundry vs. Console Lag: Round Two

EUROGAMER: So, can PlayStation 3 and its so-called "Arc" motion controller offering be put to the test in any kind of meaningful way? So far, the project has been even more carefully guarded than Natal. Less than two weeks from now, GDC kicks off and with it the first opportunity to get a good look at the wand and hopefully go hands-on with the motion controller. I expect it to be very good: after all, most of the component technologies that comprise the system are out there now for anybody to try.

[we won]

" BioShock 2 Frame-rate Locked 133-150ms
BioShock 2 Frame-rate Unlocked 100-150ms
Call of Duty: World at War 66ms-100ms
Dante's Inferno 100ms
Killzone 2 150-183ms
LittleBigPlanet 100ms
Mirror's Edge 133ms
MotorStorm: Pacific Rift 116ms-133ms
Resident Evil 5 100-150ms
Ridge Racer 7 66ms
Street Fighter IV 66ms
Unreal Tournament III 100-133ms
WipEout HD 84ms"

Natal? doing much more with less lag? Of course PS3 fans were not fooling anybody with their barrage of pro PS3 wand comments in Natal articles bashing Natal. They do this to make noise trying to distract people from thinking about how Sony's wand is just a tacked on reaction to Natal just as Sixaxix tech was to the Wiimote.

Looks like PS3 wand taxes PS3 hardware pretty good I expect quality PSN games with the wand. I wonder how devs will make games with PS3's lackluster memory use?

The wand should have a Chip.

I wonder if this will get approved/make the front page or will PS3 fans google the description and title and read this else where so that the degrees stays low enough to avoid the front page.

"So far, the project has been even more carefully guarded than Natal"

^^FOR GOOD REASON.

[BreakNeckSpeed]

"Killzone 2 : 150-183ms"

Ouch!

[NeptuneMerc]

And people say that Natal lagged. Hopefully this shuts up the haters, but who am I kidding their mindless drones.

[young juice]

wait wait wait....werent you the one talking about how ps3 fanboys were doing damage control on the natal articles, yet i come here and see you and your girlfriends flaming it up.... you just contradicted yourself. you hypocrite

[zootang]

Grand Theft Auto IV 133ms-200ms
Halo 3 100ms-150ms
Left 4 Dead 100ms-133ms
LEGO Batman 133ms
Mirror's Edge 133ms
Street Fighter IV 67ms
Soul Calibur IV 67ms-84ms
Unreal Tournament 3 100ms-133ms
X-Men Origins: Wolverine 133ms
http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

They are for the 360 so we won i really don't get your point. You would expect it to be slower on more graphic intense game would you not? So again point?

[RememberThe357]

both Natal and the "Arc" are going to be massive failures to gamers.

[Tinted Eyes]

Look at all the PS3 haters. Its not even finished yet.

Lol @ the disagrees, still won't change the fact that this is the PS-EYE not the Arc, sad little fanboys :)

[Microsoft Xbox 360]

Fact is, the PS3 Arc is the only 1:1 motion controller out there.

[Lord Vader]

Have to agree. If the article is accurate, motion controls for Sony ain't looking too good...

But I think Natal will definately have issues, it's trying to do a whole lot without lag, but down the road, with the right game development, it could be really cool for sports games & driving & action games too...

Hopefully Sony will improve this tech before release....

[evrfighter]

my mx518 mouse

5ms

The problem is bluetooth. I've tried once using a bluetooth mouse. my $80 logitech something went into the trash 1 hour after I saw how horrible it was for fps games.

I'll never use a wireless mouse ever again.

[Saaking]

They're NOT testing the arc though. They're testing the PSeye itself.

This guys do NOT have an arc to test out. It's just testing the PSeye, and OBVIOUSLY the PSeye does have Lag. Sony knows this and that's the reason they made the arc in the first place. Seriously, how desperate can these Sony bashers get?

EDIT:

Okay 360 fans, READ this before starting to blindly bash the arc.

This test IS NOT TESTING THE ARC. Ok, got it? Now don't make fools of yourselves alright. Read the article before posting.

[Cold 2000]

Karma is a b*tch.

[Will-UK]

You are a hyprocrite, in a Arc article being a troll

I bet later ill see you in natal article calling it revolutionary, when we had eyetoy do similar thing in the ps2 days.

1 - http://www.youtube.com/watc...

2 - http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Also a early PS3 eyetoy video
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Stop trolling, dont try calling me a fanboy check my comment history.
Although natal is advanced it is in no way revolutionary.

[DERKADER]

Hmmm which gimmicky control scheme do I not want to use? This happened with the Wii, you buy it because it's cool new tech but it's just a gimmick that gets old quick. Because standing up and shaking my arms is exactly how I want to play a game. But the fanboys are going to debate motion controls now just because Sony and MS are releasing their own completely different takes on it.

[Tinted Eyes]

Didnt read the article did you?

Lol fanboys will grasp at anything to bash Sony., and they still come out looking like fools.

[Microsoft Xbox 360]

It's sad when you have to use your other 10 accounts to agree with yourself.

Incoming disagrees.

[TheBand1t]

After re-reading the article.....all they have is a PS Eye. They don't have a wand on hand to test.

:/

[Carlton Banks]

So basically all the 360 fanboys got happy because they though this was the arc but it turned out to be the PS-Eye?

Man do they look stupid right now.

[OmarJA-N4G]

we won/Cold 2000/Omega4/Jason 360/Sonyslave3/Bungie & the list goes on...

Just watch your bubbles bro.

[fr0sty]

One thing this article fails massively at, besides being an outright lie with it's misleading headline, is they try to pin Arc's latency on what PSeye produces.

PSeye is not used only for the the actual motion tracking, but calibrating the system so it knows at any given point how far away from the console you are. The actual tracking is done by the gyro in the controller (just like Wii Motion+). So, any lag that is present with the eye is offset by the instantaneous input from Arc's gyro sensor. Together, they provide a level of accuracy that is beyond any other motion controller out there.

And, with all of these 100-200ms delays being built right into the games themselves using standard controllers, imagine what Natal will give you!

[Chaos69]

Karma is indeed a b*tch.

[President Tretton]

There's a reason 360 fans are always laughed at and ridiculed.

Look at how they mindlessly bash the arc and here's the funny part....

The article isn't about the arc. It's about the PS3.

haha, wow.

PS3 fans, bookmark this page so you can shove it in 360 fan's faces. It's so hilarious. They all look so dumb right now. hahahahahha!!

[iFLOWLIKEWATER]

Ummm...don't you have to have the PSeye for the Arc to work?

Edit: Along with my disagree(s) can I have a answer to my question?

Edit: Below...thanks.

[President Tretton]

@above

Yea, you do. That's is why Sony is developing the Arc in the first place. They know that the PSeye by itself lags a lot which makes certain type of games (hardcore games) impossible.

That's the REASON they made the arc. To deliver true 1:1 motion controls. All this article is doing is testing out the PSeye and we already know that that lags a lot. Just like Natal.

[Carlton Banks]

Notice how none of the 360 fanboys are talking anymore, they are just disagreeing, lol dumb fanboys.

[fr0sty]

yes, pseye is required, as that is what provides the data it needs to know where you are in the room, voice recognition, facial recognition, body/head tracking, etc.

But, the gyro in arc is what provides the main input.

[The-Warranty]

OMG this is just to delicious, all the 360 fanboys got happy and its not even the Arc!!

LMFAO!!!!!

[Anorexorcist]

So many disagrees to so many sensible comments.

"They were not testing the Arc. The Arc isn't available publicy yet"
15+ disagrees.

@ Cold

Kharma has always been a b*tch, especially most recently against Aaron Greenburg who recently had said in an article that Xbox 360 was going to outsell PS3 consistantly for the entire year of 2010. This recent update is what threw his santimonious a$$ back on the ground.

http://www.n4g.com/News-482...

Natal's lag has already been proven, Sony's Arc controller still has hope and at GDC I am willing to bet the news reports from there will be a real kharma backlash to all the pathetic Anti-PS3 fannies in here.

[headwing45]

I'm going to be honest, I didn't read the article, I just saw the video, and from reading the comments, it looks like they didn't test the controller with the EYE, just the EYE itself.

If that is the case, this article is completely bias. If you watch the E3 demo, you get a perfect view of how accurate it really is. Someone do a slow motion video of that and then you have my attention.

[AliTheBrit19]

You know what

Screw Natal

Screw Sony 'Arc'

Screw the Wii

It's as simple as this, Nintendo knew they couldn't match up to Sony and Microsoft in terms of big development and hardware, so they got away with crappy last gen hardware with mostly crappy games by giving it a big gimmick, motion control,
This gimmick caught on, and suddenly a huge mainstream casual market where buying it.

The sales of the Wii where so good that Sony and Microsoft couldn't ignore it any longer, and thus Arc and Natal where born.

[ActionBastard]

I like that the list is of real games, not just dodgeball/paint splat.

[IdleLeeSiuLung]

"Look at all the PS3 haters. Its not even finished yet. " -tinted eyes

Did you see the Natal article: http://www.n4g.com/xbox360/...

yeah... now contrast that with this article!

[SilentNegotiator]

There was that article that the kid changed from being about how they cut back Lost Planet 2 content because of the 360 to a title saying that it wasn't the case (Despite the explicit comment by the publisher).

Lots of happy xbox fanboys here, giddy over nothing, as usual.

What it comes down to is that the footage we saw of Natal was laggy as heck both at E3 2009 and the most recent of footage (Which has seen no improvement, if not degradation) and the ARC has been much more respondent since E3.

[tronz]

The PlayStation motion controller uses PlayStation Eye. The PlayStation motion controller is limited by the PlayStation Eye's hardware. please stop with this -not the Ark- stuff. Natal is one single unit and the PlayStation motion controller uses two devices so testing one half still proves the wand's ability because the wand is not magically going to change the capability of the PlayStation Eye. Once the wand is thrown in the mix things could get worse IMO. Not hard to understand my PS3 friends.

[DaTruth]

Maybe this is the reason playing NES mods on the PS3 seemed so difficult. It felt like I had barely a millisecond to perform some falling platform jumps! When I was playing these titles as a kid, there was no TV lag like I am probably getting from my 60hz LCD.

Was I reading the same link? They did no tests on Arc and stated how quickly the Playstation Eye is capable of responding. I'm not sure what you guys are commenting on!

"Crucially for the purposes of our discussion, he is able to measure the camera's latency at just one frame, or 16.67ms. For the Arc project, Sony could’ve binned off the camera and used a new one, but PlayStation Eye's impressive spec is accomplished enough that they didn't need to do so."

Am I missing something here?

[SilentNegotiator]

Tracking motion alone isn't the same as tracking light and built in detection, to all you dreaming of the Eye "Limiting" the ARC.

[morganfell]

Sorry but they claim that is similar tech to Arc and it isn't similar when tracking a human hand. This is why closeups of last years live E3 demo show no lag. Because The PS Eye can track the controller much more accurately than a human hand. This is the purpose of the globe on the end of the Arc wand.

I don't know who they think they are fooling with this idiot article but rest assured it isn't anyone that isn't already digging for an excuse to pull the Arc down to Natal's laggy level.

[Foliage]

How did this get approved with a completely fabricated title? You bots are so desperate it's not even funny. Did GOW3 make your console look so pathetic that you guys had to make stuff up?

The article has nothing to do with Arc. The original article title had nothing to do with Arc. A moron with the reading comprehension skills of a 2 yeard old/an average xbox user completely made up the title.

The title could have been changed to "Natal" just as easily, since the article has as much to do with Natal as the Arc: Nothing.

[sikbeta]

@we won

Pal, if the "wand" is laggy, I Have the option to not buy it, is not like I'll buy it cuz is a Sony Product, but you really need to PROVE something with natal, if it's laggy, just [DEAL WITH IT], don't come up with cr@p like, "Oh..the other thing is laggy too", no matter what you say:

wii-motion-control = Gimmick
ps-eye = Gimmick
natal = Gimmick

You can play Games if natal Fail...

[Anorexorcist]

We're giving all the pathetic, delusional disagree-happy PS3 detractors a workout in index-finger calisthenics.

They disagree to everything (yet don't give proper rebuttals to prove why they disagree) with such powerful vigor, like if they're in some Rocky Balboa sports training montage or something.

[fear88]

This clearly belongs in the PS3 section only.

[OnlyOnN4G]

This article's about PS Eye alone, not Arc. PS Eye + Arc = True 1:1 motion as clearly demonstrated in this vid...

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[ScoobyDrew]

this isn't even the f***ing arc! its the Eye, which lags like a mofo

[tronz]

I was wondering if you know how the Arc works.

The PS3 motion controller uses bluetooth for face button input and uses "the Eye, which lags like a mofo" for motion. The wand is just a plastic stick that sends bluetooth signals to the PS3 and admits led lights for the PSeye to read. It has nothing to do with how the Ark will perform. Terrible excuse.

[D4RkNIKON]

Yeah why the hell would the blutooth send data from the accelerometers? That would just make too much sense... I am beginning to wonder if YOU know how Arc works..

Edit- I am waiting for your response.. Where is it? So you are going to tell me that the motion controller doesn't have accelerometers to work WITH the PSeye. That is the difference between the Arc and Natal, oh and buttons!

Haha I love these disagrees from scared fanboys. Nothing in my statement was false or an opinion. The disagree button should read "Denial"

[Bigpappy]

Natal has not been released yet, neither has the PSWand. Yet you guys put so much energy into trying to predict the demise of Natal when it is not made with you in mind. You hate it when 360 owners get excited about something new on their system, so you take it upon yourselves to talk about things that are way above your pay grade. You know absolutely nothing about Natal ar the wand and yet you know more that the developers and the people who actually tested the tech. I have to hold my nose to read some of the shyt that I see on this site (even though you are typing it, it still got a pungent smell to it.

Edit: This site was great when they had an article last month showing Natal's lag. Now that they shown that PSeye lags even worst, the site is trying to pull down the ARC. Do you people have no shame?

[pixelsword]

How does this test the arc when it doesn't actually USE the arc, or any games made for the arc?

Reported.

[tronz]

I didn't say that. I said all the wand does is send bluetooth signals to the PS3 for user input and admits light for PSeye to track but it won't change the limitations of the PSeye. Don't twist my words please.

EDIT

I didn't ignore anything it's not relevant. Talking about "three-axis linear accelerometer and a three-axis angular rate sensor used to track rotation" makes about as much sense as somebody defending Natal's lag by bringing up the orientation of the gamer in front of Natal.

[D4RkNIKON]

"The PS3 motion controller uses bluetooth for face button input and uses the Eye, which lags like a mofo for motion"

Twist your words? These are your words! You completely ignore the fact that the controller has accelerometers that (just like the wii) track motion. Don't be so ignorant. Disagree all you want but your statements are missing facts.

Oh here come the disagrees huh? Well her is a video that proves it. Disagreeing is only proving that you wish that it wasn't true.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...
Start vid at 1:30 and hear all about the gyroscopes and accelerometers ;) Maybe, you will learn something. maybe

[DaTruth]

The MS marketing machine is already at it! They had Natal in an episode of Caprica... of course playing 100 balls flying at you game because I guess there is no other game.

[fear88]

Burnout Paradise 67ms
BioShock (frame-locked) 133ms
BioShock (unlocked) as low as 67ms
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 67ms-84ms
Call of Duty: World at War 67ms-100ms
Call of Juarez: Bound in Blood 100ms
Forza Motorsport 2 67ms
Geometry Wars 2 67ms
Guitar Hero: Aerosmith 67ms
Grand Theft Auto IV 133ms-200ms
Halo 3 100ms-150ms
Left 4 Dead 100ms-133ms
LEGO Batman 133ms
Mirror's Edge 133ms
Street Fighter IV 67ms
Soul Calibur IV 67ms-84ms
Unreal Tournament 3 100ms-133ms
X-Men Origins: Wolverine 133ms

The lag is still there even on the xbox and the source is none other than http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

[Mr Logic]

Omg! Are you people really that retarded? People have said that the lag on Natal reaches up to 800ms.

[nycredude]

You sony bashers are a bunch of retards. This only proves one thing. THat natal will fail because you will have this lag no matter what. THat is why Sony has been playing with this natal tech for years now (Natal is just a eyetoy and pseye) but decided to scratch support and come up with the arch. MS is only trying to copy Sony's last gen ideas, which is the only thing they know how to do well. Sony's arch is the better tech of the two. Quote me on this. I have the eye and several games for it (yes Sony already has "natal" out and have games for it) and it does have a little lag. Natal will lag no way around it. Arch won't is fact.

[IaMs12]

WHoa whoa whoa, i love the fact that every person in here is pointing out "That people love to bash Sony." well yah some do BUT look at the 360 threads im sorry there are more freaking PS3 fanboys in the 360 threads then 360 owners bashing it. EVERY article i go into has you damn fanboys bashing. (Both consoles) anyways, i dont think either will become too popular anyways, and both will have LAG like ALL computers have. There is no perfect motion controller yet.

N4P3G.com indeed, at its best folks... If people on PSN are like you guys on N4G, ill take the kids on Xbox LIVE anyday, i cannot stand you Sony boys... Disagree away:) its the new thing, to have a bunch of disagrees and you are cool :)

Either way i hope both do well, because they BOTH can do something awesome for the industry.

[Sonyslave3]

sony wand lag more then natal and all it doing is following a pink ball.

[we won]

Boy I wish this would stop the Natal bashing but this Natal hate is not about LAG! If it's not lag driving the hate it will be something else. Any excuse they can find will be used because the Sony camp and Sony themselves fear the impact Natal will cause in the casual world.

[The-Warranty]

Lol at both of you. Its not even the Arc

[talltony]

No one cares about natal but little kids such as yourself.

[TehCell]

Will anyone actually buy this?
"um i will"
No you wont. Go play Heavy Rain.

[Saaking]

They're NOT testing the wand. No wonder you 360 fans are the laughing stock of the gaming community. How about you read the article... man, I'm gonna save this story just for the lulz.

haha!

[DelusionalMsBot]

Saaking you need very little convincing to be conviced by sony

Edit: i also think the motion controls suck and should just stay on the wii

Lol saaking nice stealth edit (he said he will buy arc if sony convince him)

[TehCell]

Of course you will buy it.

8.1 - "So far, I'm disappointed in BOTH of them."
2.1 - "I might buy it, but Sony has to show some very good stuff to convince me."

Sony will just tell you it is technically superior and you will buy it. In fact, you will buy two, each for a seperate price.

I will not be surprised the day you buy it and go "hur hur dis is awsom natal sux lolololz"

[n4gno]

The cell, you know so much how xbox fans acts...that you think ps3 gamers are the same kind of ridiculous fans, but no, only xbox fans are bashing best games, hardware, are believing in greentard and ms sites words.

If with the best hardware and games, the wand is what we have seen, a real wiimote 1.1, it would be an other great thing for gamers...if pseye natal is good too, it would be only for casual galming (like eye toy)

[sikbeta]

"Sony will just tell you it is technically superior and you will buy it"

Pal, The Same way M$ is hyping natal like if it's the Second Coming of God and you know there is Not Second Coming...

Anyway, The Whole Motion-Control Stuff is Annoying and is just Gimmicky, no more, no less...

[IaMs12]

you guys all act like hyping for either company is a new thing, get over yourselves

[BannedForNineYears]

That video was just testing the PS Eye.
Not necessarily the Arc.
If you look at the E3 video of the Arc, you can clearly see absolutely no lag.
While on the Natal E3 video, you can clearly see lag.
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
http://www.youtube.com/watc... Look at 2:22 when she moves forward...Really...How can any hardcore gaming bare that kind of latency?

[Xi]

It looks like there's lag to me...

Not as prodominant as natal, but lag still noticeable by the human eye.

at roughly the 2 minute mark, when he starts using the flashlight you can see the difference in the motion... And again at the tank demo, you can see the screen lag behind the movement.

[360FTW2]

HARDCORE GAMING.

This term is seriously being over played.

Can someone give me an official definition for "Hardcore Gamer/Hardcore Gaming", clear and concise please, not some fanboy's interpretation of what it means. Hardcore gaming has been skewed almost as bad as AAA titles in terms of definition.

Please help me to understand. Remember, only quality definitions.

Thanks in advance.

[BannedForNineYears]

Someone who plays MW 2 :P
Lol jk.
Someone who doesn't play Puzzle games? Someone who doesn't play Hello Kitty Island Adventures?

[Renewman]

I can see where fanboys will try to twist the words but the article itself said that even Halo 3 itself couldn't go any lower than 100ms for lag. Developers have to find that magical spot to make lagless gameplay with wireless controllers with monitors and tvs factored in. As long as the lag isn't so severe it affects my gameplay than everything is peachy despite what some fanboys will tell you.

[Lord Vader]

"So yes, Killzone 2 latency is confirmed at 150ms, a full 50 per cent higher than many 30FPS first-person shooters."

I'd say that affects gameplay my friend...

[The real killer]

If i use my PS eye, it has no lag at all, if i move my hand than also the TV without no lag, this test is so stupid.

Every one who owned the eye know that that the PS eye has no lag.

[HowarthsNJ]

There a huge difference between tracking all motion and tracking a GLOWING ORB.

The camera tracks the Orb's position and size (distance from the lens).

I'm assuming there is a sensor in the handle to follow rotation and angle.

[NeptuneMerc]

I'm still waiting for "B..But EURGAMER R TEH BIAS!11!!" comment.

[Raoh]

EURGAMER R TEH BIAS!11!

[Dance]

People complained about Natal latency...good one

[RememberThe357]

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[redsquad]

Why do I find myself humming "Here come the girls" whenever I see hoardes of 360 zombies falling over themselves to get into a PS3 topic?

[Omega4]

Thats a lot of lag, Natal isnt even close to being finalized and MS have said the accuracy will only increase, yet Sony's Arc is already lagging behind literally.

[Tinted Eyes]

Its not the Arc though :)

[Omega4]

Well Saaking that means you and all your fellow Natal haters can stop hating on Natals lag then :)

[ClownBelt]

Why should they?

Natal is laggy as hell = FACT

This article only talks about PS eye not the arc itself. Lol

[bjornbear]

they tested the PSEye...not the Arc...do you understand the difference special boy?

I don't mind trolling, but when its miss informed mentally retarded trolling then it annoys me

this is the PSEye being tested. The Arc will use a tracker ball which takes less processing power (and therefore no lag) to track.

get it? no? then go to special school and stop wasting time on the internet.

[Silver360]

The same latency that is present in the DS3. It will use the same method of communicating with the PS3 so all lag times are calibrated with the blue-tooth tech that the DS3 uses. They used a DS3 for these readings not the arc or eyetoy.

"Using basic common sense and wild ingenuity, Heckendorn has come up with a new design, and the PS3 controller latency board prototype was duly sent across the oceans to its new home within the Digital Foundry lair.

Benjamin J Heckendorn's brand new PlayStation 3 latency controller monitor. The board itself is powered by dual AA batteries on the rear of the unit while the controller itself uses the built-in PS3 joypad battery.

So, what shall we do with it? In the here and now, we can take a look at how latency affects PS3 titles, plus we can expand upon the original feature and cover some new ground. In the future, having the kit on-site also means that when we talk about diminished controller response in a Face-Off article, we can physically measure it and quantify it."

[nycredude]

I love how you idiots bash and when someone says "it's not the arch they are testing" there is no response as if the comment never existed. You SOny bashers seriously need to seek help for your disease.

[Dirk Benedict]

"People invited personally by ms to try Natal at closed press events complained about Natal latency...good one"

I think so too.

[NeptuneMerc]

Where are all the droids? Maybe their too butt-hurt to comment? Sony really propped them hard with this glorified dildo of theirs. Must be sore to learn the truth and get anal at the same time.

[Tony-A]

What do you want them to get here for? So they can use the same excuse 360 fanboys used for Natal's lag?

"It's not even out yet, wait till the Holiday Season!"

It's f*cking February. Neither of the motion controls are gonna be the same by the time they release.

[TheBand1t]

If you actually read the article, they don't even have an Arc on hand to test. They are doing this purely with the PSeye.

[cereal_killa]

TheBand1t Anyone who disagrees with you has not read the article but only what the delusional Muppet's have posted in the thread if you actually read the article (most Muppet's cant read at this level yet) you'll see they don't even have the "ARC" on hand to use they only have the eyetoy as a reference.

"Sony's bundled PlayStation Eye tool, EyeCreate, can be used to give a best possible processing scenario."

"It's not Arc but both show the same underlying tech in use on the only area of the peripheral likely to incur game lag."

But since you guys are to lazy to actually read what is really said there's even video to show you they're not even using the "Arc" but only the Eyetoy. So everything they're saying is just speculation and a guesstimate. But it really wouldn't matter, you Muppet's don't care about being proven wrong over and over it's "Bad News' about anything PS3 related so it must be true.

Edit: Phantom disagrees for Facts LMAO

[kissmeimgreek]

there busy trolling the 360 forums

[Dance]

Natal aint done either but that didn't stop you and the brother hoods of Sony from bashing on it

[IaMs12]

Exactly, What goes around comes around damn Sony fanboys. You know i do not hate Sony, or the system or its games, i just F(CKing hate you guys well because not because you support Sony, just how you act. If the 360 owners acted as bad as you i would hate on them too, same with the Wii.

[TheBand1t]

So it lags more on graphics heavy titles, while Natal lags less on ballbreaker like games.

Out of curiousity, who on earth thinks that these laggy motion controls (both Natal and the Wand) will somehow take on the Wii? It boggles the mind.

[n4gno]

Wiimote is laggy, wand prove in real time to be really better (and the games are uncomparable).

[NeptuneMerc]

Last time I checked you can't break dance in Killzone 2!

[TheBand1t]

Why on earth would I breakdance? I'd just look like an idiot, and probably end up breaking something.

[IaMs12]

Your going to look like an idiot anyways waving a wand around as people using Natal will be using their whole bodies too. If you guys dont see this as a fun thing to do because its not hardcore leave it be then. Its something fun to do, suppose to make you feel silly.

[omegaheat]

Judging by the design, I think my girlfriend might enjoy this device more than me. However, I know she hates videogames, I think she might have a change of heart whenever I'm out of town. I'm just saying.

[MegadethAndy]

After using the arc while you are away, she might not wanna go back...

[fear88]

You got owned so bad!!!

[Raoh]

so the actual article should be called playstation eye and eyecreate software put to the test

[Cold 2000]

Lol didnt see this coming.

[table]

so because natal is proven to be failing you wan't the Arc to fail? You always try to come across as unbiased but your comments are some of the worst on this site. This article has almost single-handedly proved the ignorance and stupidity of the people on N4G.

[n4gno]

desperates and Delusionals xbox fans are always believing articles from...others ms employees (eurogamer.net = desperate multiplatform comparisons, bad scores for ps3 exclusives, and now, that kind of joke for dumb believers), just funny :)

[IaMs12]

Funny thing is, its the samething. You sony boys listen to anything Sony says. I bet if Sony came out and said "We Suck, MS is better" you would believe it because you master said so.

[Carlton Banks]

Why do 360 fanboys always self-own themselves like this?

[Saaking]

It's their nature. Their intelligence is well below normal and they'll do anything MS tells the them to do. They're very pathetic. But at least they're good for a good laugh.

[karl]

what i said... i think he was talking about the pseye not the arc...

the arc during the e3 show looked a lot faster than that...

[Mista T]

we have to wait for the final product of Microsoft's Natal and Sony's arc before we make any assumptions

[Dance]

Over the last few days we have had countless flamebait threads all over this site bashing on Natal about its lag issues

[OmarJA-N4G]

Keep disagreeing 360 fanboys maybe you'll sleep better tonight.

[Dance]

Sweet dreams zzzzzzzzz

[n4gno]

"So basically all the 360 fanboys got happy because they though this was the arc but it turned out to be the PS-Eye?

Man do they look stupid right now. "

like everyday since 2006...(worst, they are now disagreeing the truth with multiple accounts, pathetic)

[Dance]

Nearly every article on this site is pro sony so cry somewhere else

[ApocalypseShadow]

it's like when you compare games like halo reach to GOW3 and then you get your hearts broken on the epic scale of ps3 exclusives.

you hearts have been broken on killzone2,uncharted2,resistanc e 2(60 players),MAG(256 players)bluray,cell processor,GT5,etc.

you claim equality,then your hearts get ripped out by sony.we have seen this time and time again.how many times are you guys willing to get owned by sony?

ON TOPIC,sony knows that pseye has lag....ON IT'S OWN.that's why dr marks says the wand with the bulb at the end is used by the pseye to track it.
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

watch again.that's LIVE and not some FAKE MARKETING VIDEO.see,this is FAKE:
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

FAKE as F#CK.and what did we see live?

BAM,THERE IT IS.

show any ps3 fan lag using THE WAND ***AND*** the EYE and then you can talk.it's like you guys have mental problems using part of the equation.every time you guys say one thing,show one thing,but not the full picture.then you get owned over and f#cking over.

you guys are sad.

[pixelsword]

...I've held my tongue until I got footage of at least one usable game or example in front of me to base it on other than the E3 footage to show progress past the demo stage then I would say one thing or another. I had none until three events happened:

1. the announcement of Natal removing the chip (possible altered experience)

2. the announcement that Natal games were to be "family focused" instead of games for mainstay players (which altered the target to me because I was looking for some really nice mainstay games for Natal)

3. the dance vid for Natal (E3 game running on [I'm guessing] the Newer Natal)

Before then, I had nothing to go on but the E3 footage, which was impressive (although there was lag even then, but it was still new yet):

http://www.youtube.com/watc... (notice the lag in the first part when he lifts his leg and the corresponding leg of the avatar)

so I said nothing about Natal itself (of which I was impressed) and stated at least once here that you couldn't judge Natal games because as far as we know, there was NO Natal games to make a determination on. It was too early to come to any conclusive thought about Natal. But the more Natal is shown, the more you can go by.

They made the announcement that they were getting rid of a chip, which meant you had to throw out everything you saw about Natal because it may not be accurate to the finished product. That is a big thing because when you take things out of hardware, things can get crippled, even if temporarily if the programmers don't know what they are doing (like the PS3 not having "enough RAM" for the games, until you learned how to program and distribute on the Cell, which meant you didn't need the ram once optimized code is ran on the Cell).

The family-centered games announcement was another bell, because most family-centered games are not graphics intensive, so the load on the 360 seemed like it could take a toll on the games played on the 360, but again: no poof, so no comment.

The most recent dance vid convinced me that at the moment Natal is either a little lower than it's former E3 condition or they haven't tweaked that game yet for the new Natal. If you noticed as well, the balls in the E3 demo were coming at you much faster than the dance vid footage... which actually says nothing at the moment, as settings could have been changed inside the finished game itself.

so,

IF this is going to be an actual game,
IF this is using the newer Natal
and SINCE this game has been shown before, it shows no improvement in terms of lag over the older Natal chipset.

Does that mean that it won't before Launch?

NO

But since this has shown a lot more than the arc, a lot more can be said.

And the only thing that can be said about the arc is that from what it played shows NO lag (again, just test graphics that are NOT intensive JUST like the Natal demos so far)

Once again, if you have proof, please show it. I'm BEGGING, no, DARING you to.

show me just one vid where the arc is being used and lagging... you can't, can you? Anyone? Anyone?

Does that mean it will remain that way?

NO

because if/when a graphics intensive game comes out, then we will start to know it's limitations. But until then, nothing is shown/updated other than the 1:1 syncing that is proven again and again.

PROOF, not jabbering and inane suppositions.

Can anyone show PROOF to the contrary?

[Dance]

You should look up the word scale sometime and at least we know Halo Reach won't be as linear or scripted as god of war

[bjornbear]

have nothing to do with eachother.

listen, start taking your medication or else you'll start comparing Deadly Premonition to Heavy Rain next...LOL

[Saaking]

It's confirmed!

360 fanboys are the stupidest. Really guys, is it too hard to read the article? PS3 fans, please report the story with bad editing. It's a misleading title.

[Narutone66]

reading comprehension is non-existent, hence, the popularity of FPS.

[Blaster_Master]

Hahahaha! Look at all the sheep trying to stick up for their favorite system. All I gotta say is that I seen Sony's MC on stage and there was zero lag. It worked perfectly. You sheep should stop lying and start playing video games.

[DelbertGrady]

*looks at sheep*

[bananasNmonkeys]

Just thought i should add:
The eyetoy can record at 60 frames per second.
The PS eye can record at 120 frames per second.

(in other words, no there wont be lag)

[prettyboy1]

misleading title much?and u guys bashing the arc...u know who u r.u should actually read the damn artical before u bash something it tends to make u look like an ass

[ApocalypseShadow]

but it's like chatting with kinder gardeners.

the video shows no ARC being used.the picture for this article IS showing the ARC.that's blatantly false.i can post any video from E3 2009 to christmas of last year.every video of ARC being used WITH the pseye,it was tracked 1:1.

EVERY video we have seen of natal from E3 to now,there has been LAG.if natal had something it could track,there would be NO LAG.but there is NO CONTROLLER.

even the fricken VISION CAM could pull off 1:1 if microsoft made something for it to track.but,as usual,microsoft is abandoning another product in favor of another.just like component 360s were abandoned for hdmi systems.hdmi being something sony pushed.and microsoft said wasn't necessary.

unless they SHOW us the wand and the eye showing lag,this article fails.you don't put ARC pictures up,but don't show the ARC being used.that's a fricken,big handed KRONOS from gow3 FACE PALM right there.

[mushroomwig]

Arc put to the test, awesome...the only thing missing is the Arc.

[jack_burt0n]

Wow perfect example of the worthless leading the worthless.

Cant find anything decent to say about natal, bash the other side with bullsh*t. LOL truly pathetic.

[ApocalypseShadow]

a 360 fan will lie and say that sony said all games to be 1080p.but if you post the truth:
http://www.google.com/url?s...

it says resolutions up to 1080p.it doesn't say all.but 360 fans will pull out blatant lies.

a 360 fan will lies and say sony said all games to run 120fps.another lie.ken k said he HOPES ps3 to support 120fps when the tvs come out.and we have seen tvs now out and coming out that support 120fps.and sony's new 3D initiative supports these new tvs.

http://www.google.com/url?q... http://www.gamespot.com/new...

http://www.google.com/url?s...

even the pseye camera supports 120fps.but 360 fans will continue lying about what sony said.without looking into the real facts.

so when we see them trying to push articles that dont even show the product being used,it's just more lies and bullsh!t.

[xg-ei8ht]

We Won.

x2 the cache at x2 the speed, that's PS3.

If your that worried about the 360, maybe you should worry for the sales. It's already 500,000 behind this year, ouch.

[bjornbear]

people bashing a product saying its laggy...yet there is no proof

no one has tested the arc...this is just the PSeye, its is NOT the same thing =/

stupidity is still a very common factor here...clearly =/

[squeeb]

As I said in a previous thread, I find motion controllers to be completely overrated.

But, I like that the ARC is being used in conjunction with the Eye. Other than video chat, I really have not done much with my camera..

[Ps_alm3k]

That did not read the article but, tries to look for opportunity to bash the ARC. LOL
The article is showing the use of the ps eye in motion and in that regard there is lag and we all know this already. Even killzone 2, I had known for the longest time that there was a control lag. But back to the topic! What make the arc different to just using the Ps eye, is that The Ice cream ball on tip of the wand is helping with the 1:1 tracking.

Look at this video, and not the misleading video that eurogamer tries to bring, to hamper the momentum of the Sony. THis is Live and you probably seen it already, but for the fanboy who pretends to not care.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

and as for natal, we will find out soon enough if it can do responsiveness soon enough.

[NeutralGamer]

Am I the only one wondering why Arc is in the Xbox 360 News section?

[omegaheat]

The article was intentionally posted in this section to fuel a flame war debate for those naive enough to rush over to the site and see what all the noise is about. If the headline looks childish and bias, I just stay in the N4G zone and comment. I'm not going to give those bastards any free hits to their websites. It's getting ridiculous and seems like everyone's doing it now.

[Ps_alm3k]

Take Troll 101 again Bots!!!
Do research first!!! LOL ahahahahhahahaha!!!

Read the freaking article, That is not the arc in action.
this is...

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[nefertis]

Sony Motion wand kick a$$. Playb3yond

[earbus]

Ha there will be lots of sony fans getting their ice cream dildo removed with surgical assistance when it launches .

[NeutralGamer]

----------------->
Open Zone that way...
Screw you and your fanboy comments!

[Biggest]

I hope Sony has learned a lesson from EyeToy and PSEye in that party games and shovelware won't cut it. As it is, the only current gen game that would work with this crap is Heavy Rain. As I said about Natal, the Arc is probably going to be crap. That being said. . .

WTF is all this Arc talk in here? Could have named this heading "Digital Foundry puts Sony's Magical Hair Lotion to the test" and it would have made just as much sense. They don't even have the Arc to test yet.

[pixelsword]

It's been proven again and again:

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

I think some people are just upset because of the recent announcement that Natal will be focused on family games instead of hardcore games, plus that laggy dance video that just came out. If they did the same framerate test on the link I have in my post, it would show that there's no lag in arc.

There's not a drop of proof that an arc game has lag; but there's all sorts of proof that anything that shows the arc in action has zero lag.

[pixelsword]

...else there would be a link doing so. lol!

[DelbertGrady]

From rabid Natal bashing to rabid Arc defense. Why am I not surprised?

[Biggest]

Are you mad that you couldn't protect the Natal? At least they could have actually had the Arc to talk about in this one. I mean, damn.

Everyone is waiting for any new info on the Sony Arc. Well we here at Xbox3604LYFE.com have the info you've been waiting for. We don't have the Arc. No one does. But what we do have is a box of grits and a bag of toasted fingernails. Xbox360 fans rejoice. The combination is HORRIBLE. It tastes like grits and fingernails Basically, the Arc sucks.

Wow. I just became a cool journalist. XBOX 4 LYFE!!!

[DelbertGrady]

No. I'm not mad. It's hard for me to get excited over something I've seen so little of. And that goes for both Natal and the Arc.

But if you go into any Natal article posted lately it's like someone mentioned something positive about Halo. They go out of their way to convince everyone that Natal is extremely bad and won't have any cool games, even though it's far from release and none of us have actually tried it, or seen it live even.

[ironmonkey]

fanboys dont read they just see a headline of an article then comment on it

[commodore64]

is the sheer number of damage controlling SDF who are reporting this article and defending the 'honour' of the as-yet unreleased arc in the face of 'biased' and 'hating' articles such as this one.
Get a life, guys.

*sighs*

Fact is, the article is examining lag in a variety of contexts.
It is part of a series, in which all consoles
and input methods are being put to the test.
.....

The most pertinent part of the whole article, which has been largely ignored in favour of arc damage control, is actually to do with Killzone 2 lag:

Killzone2 lag, with standard controller, has been accurately measured at 150ms!
That's 50% higher than some other FPS this gen.

What's more is, when the KZ2 framerate gets choppy, the lag drops to an astoundingly laggy 183ms!
The article also states, that with LCD display lag included, the KZ2 lag may increase, at times, to 200+ milliseconds.
That is, at 30fps, KZ2 exhibits a 6 frame input LAG, with standard controller!

It is no secret that ps3 trolls have been ragging on Natal, lately, celebrating reports that Natal may exhibit 5 frame lag.

However, what they are NOT considering, is that their flagship shooter, KZ2, which operates with a standard controller (not natal, nor arc) has a HIGHER lag time than NATAL.

Astounding huh?... and indisputably true.
The truth is out there.
Sometimes we just have to dig for it!

[Biggest]

The lag that you speak of is pre-programmed "weight" as explained by the developers. But you already know that since you tried to use this same comment in another thread. Go make up some more funny stories about how Alan Wake looks better than God of War 3 or something. At least that is current.

[DelbertGrady]

Perhaps Natal has "pre-programmed weight" as well lol! Anyone who's played Killzone 2 and isn't a Sony totalitarian knows that the controls are awful.

Some of you hype stuff regardless of quality. I mean look at Yakuza 3. I played the demo at a friends and wtf was that? It's a PS2 game. And not a very good one. Looks like one, sounds like one, playes like one.

[NateDPG]

You sir have no clue about Yakuza and the graphics is great for the people that played the previous parts, it's a big improvement buddy ;)

[DelbertGrady]

No wonder. The previous parts were on the PS2. I'd love to see peoples reactions if it was multiplat.

[commodore64]

@ biggest.

No, the argument of deliberate kz2 'momentum lag' is null and void, because the same lag applies to when your press the trigger on the gun.
That is explained in the article.
Try reading it before jumping to standard defensive rhetoric.

What you are trying to tell me, is that kz2 has implemented lag because they want the bodies and movements to feel like they have realistic mass and inertia which requires effort and energy to move around, as one would in real life
Fair enough, I buy that, and it certainly is what the developer has been selling to the fanboys.

But, as far as firing a rifle is concerned, why is there the same 'momentum' lag?

Why is the act of curling the trigger finger and split second chemicals exploding and firing a a bullet down the barrell at 3000 feet/s subject to the same lag?

It don't make no sense.

That, pretty much, destroys your argument.
Nice of you try though!

[JokesOnYou]

"However, pulling a trigger shouldn't apply and in the case of Killzone 2, the 150ms figure is steady whether you're jumping or shooting. In the latter case, Halo 3 is timed at 100ms, which in terms of my testing (plus that of Neversoft co-founder Mick West) appears to be the fastest response a 30FPS game is capable of achieving."

-Damm, KZ2 controls always felt very sluggish, I always believed that the excuse "its suppose to be like that to give the player a sense of weight" was a cop out excuse because its even present in firing all the weapons....and this confirms it, sonyfanboys have been bashing the hell out of Natal for latency yet KZ2 is one of the laggiest shooters this gen and thats with no motion controls involved. I notice this has been largely ignored in the comments. It's also funny how its funny to prematurely judge Natal is OK, but doing the same based on PS Eye is "OMG its not finished yet", lmfao, As I read above somewhere, YES Karma is a beeatch.

JOY

[NateDPG]

Really ridiculous to act as this is Sonys new motion controller. Poor MS fanboys gasping for air

[Ingram]

But it makes my blood boil I must confess.

I remember 2006/08, a lot of 360 guys bashing anything PS3 related, dismissing personal preferences, hating, shoving Gears in da face.

Now,people can't have an opinion either, they are instantly disregarded again as "People justifying their purchase","Cell wackos","Sony's concubines" sad thing is, when they see the disagrees now, they just say "Meh, N4G ALWAYS WAS A PS3 FANBOY SITE".

Thing is, apart from their good PC ports, they would never accept they bought it because any of the following reasons:

-Can be easily pirated
-Came out earlier
-Cheaper
-Marketed to hell & back

Yet, I have to justify why do I prefer 1:1 motion capture vs Eyetoy+depth*?

*Do some research about Resolution and Framerate capture and stop covering your ears, singing LALALA and wanking to Milo.

[Cuddlefish]

You can clearly see the lag in the wand demo from E3 in these animated gifs.
http://i47.tinypic.com/r89u...
http://i50.tinypic.com/23kt...

Motion sensing on 360 and PS3 will both have lag. Just accept it people.