How Fast is Project Natal?

Xbox Evolved Writes: Natal's lag has been debated heavily since it debuted. Some say it's bad, others claim it isn't so bad. We decided to put it to the test... and after seeing the results we're not surprised that they didn't want to allow cameras into the latest public showing of Project Natal.

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5250d ago Replies(49)
DailyAddict5250d ago

This has been pretty noticeable since E3 and at every showing so far. It's no wonder why Microsoft says the first wave of games for it will be family oriented. Hmm....that sounds familiar. Could it be Wii 360? Yip. Much like the Wii, it lacks major precision so at best I wouldn't expect to see any core games support it at all because the lag would get on your nerves in more serious games.

JokesOnYou5249d ago

@ callahan09, Well frankly your comment is a premature assumption at this point, micro just had a great X10 where they showed and talked about some of there upcoming releases, but why do people expect to see final games of Natal so early? E3 is right around the corner, I expect we'll be seeing more games and interesting stuff from Natal, but as I've predicted even months ago, the early stuff still will mostly be casual stuff, Natal is a huge undertaking with the control scheme and I don't expect the very first games to be Natal-controlled Halo Reach quality games, so the point is most of us on this site are not interested in Richochet type games, thats really for a different audience micro is trying to bring in from the wii's success but what most of us who ARE INTERESTED IN NATAL are waiting to see if it will offer any enhancements to the type of games(hardcore) we care about.

@ mastiffchild, "I've heard both systems praised and derided by people on here who nearly all(to a man , virtually)hated motion controls when Wii was the only console really banging that particular drum. People who rubbished the Wii now cling on to things like Natal's proposed menu navigation using gestures as a great thing when, to me, pressing buttons seems both quicker, easier, more natural and something that works way too well to even consider trying to fix!"
-This the exact same stubborn mentatlity and a constant mis-information I see from so many sonyfanboys, Listen I don't know if you've ever read to much of my posts but you're clearly NOT in tune with what MOST of the people looking forward to Natal think. #1 Thi wii is NOT well liked by many who want Natal to impress because even to this day the nintendo themselves hasn't even attempted the type of hardcore experiences WE CARE ABOUT, aside from Metroid I can't think of any really great implementation into a really good game thats on the wii. #2 wii isn't trying to bring in the hardcore demographic with its decidedly lower specs, #3 nintendo themselves have admittedly many times they are NOT trying to compete with sony and micro with hardcore gaming experiences= This is EXACTLY WHY PEOPLE LIKE ME DON'T CARE MUCH FOR THE wii, and ITS ALSO EXACTLY WHY PEOPLE LIKE ME **WANT** TO SEE NATAL DO SOMETHING GREAT FOR HARDCORE GAMES.

Also, you seem to be set in the mindframe that motion control can't enhance games at all. It's funny I remember when ps3 fans were high on the idea of having motion controls in the sixaxis was a big benefit over 360 controller even for multplats. Why is it now that Natal has recieved so much hype that ps followers are so turned off by the idea of making even limited motion control enhancements to games we care about? While you downplay "menu enhancements" as being nothing to be excited about I ask why not? IMO that would be very cool and its telling that you percieve mashing buttons on a controller as "easier and more natural" than something like maybe pointing to a on screen icon or whatever I guess in your opinion would be un-natural.....hopefully you were being sincere in your questions, but YOUR WHOLE POST STINKS OF PRECONCIEVED NOTIONS OF WHAT NATAL WILL BE LIKE, AS IF ITS BEEN OUT FOR A YEAR OR SO AND ALL ITS EVER PRODUCED WAS CASUAL WORKOUT GAMES LIKE THE **wii. Which is funny because we heard so many times to "wait" and be patient for games and stuff like HOME, but when it comes to Natal many fanboys have already decided its a failure....nothing new on n4g. Will they succeed?...At the very least it will bring some casual fun to a limited audience, if so, as I've said a thousand times then I won't care for it and will simply keep enjoying the games I like, if they go beyond that like I'm sure micro/devs will at least try with a few big titles eventually then we'll see how that goes, until then I'll just watch the haters (not referring to you) keep sinning their wheels.


headwing455249d ago

I'm sure they will fix this problem, I mean, they were able to fix vista right...right?

WildArmed5249d ago

well MS better have something to prove that they improved the laggy natal project at E3.
Otherwise, I'll have to regretfully skip Natal.

ASSASSYN 36o5250d ago

Lets all be surprised by the natal lag issue...again. This is old news there is lag in natal. A product that is many months away.

fr0sty5250d ago

What ISN'T old news is the fact that there is STILL the SAME amount of lag almost a FULL YEAR later, after all this time they've had to patch it up. Now they're down to mere months before release, and you expect it to magically disappear? They're still showing the same dodgeball demo from E3 2009! It still lags, and still glitches. They've improved the glitching some from when i saw it at e3 though, but the lag is still there just as bad as it was day 1.

GiantEnemyCrab5250d ago (Edited 5250d ago )

Wasn't it the same tech from the last E3?

Either the thing is broken still or maybe MS is playing it cool, keeping Natal in the limelight and working on improving all these complaints and then at E3 show a product that is better.

If it is mostly software like you say then there should be plenty of time to tune it between now and E3 and I imagine they've been doing that ever since the last E3.

I agree let's wait till the product is out.

morkendo5249d ago

seems to me to be the perfect assessory for 4-7 graders to play with.
i cant possibly see anyone over 12 using natal entertaining themselfs slapping and kicking in the air to long.

Dance5249d ago

They still have plenty of time to fix Natal lag issues

Anon19745249d ago

You're kidding yourself. This issue won't be fixed. We're talking Microsoft here.
The thing about that is, the casuals who this is targeted at won't care. The Wii-mote is terrible and people are lining up to buy those. When you play the Wii you spend 25% of your time losing your pointer on the edge screen and trying to find it again. Ever play a shooter on the Wii, try to shoot something in the upper side of the screen, lose the pointer off the edge and get shot to hell trying to find the pointer again?
Natal isn't meant for gamers or serious games anymore than the Wii is and that's why it might still have a chance, even with these issues.

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CobraKai5250d ago

MS has their work cut out for them.

Cueil5250d ago

This has two problems... one the cam is not a 60fps cam and second (if you've read Eurogamers artical about lag you would know) you can't accurately count frames because of the 0 frame mark... you still need a 60fps camera anyway and it needs to be setup at optimal settings to give you even a chance... for example .15 secons is the delay in pushing a button and getting action doing a camera test like this only more accurate... the game? Killzone 2... pretty actiony right? So if Natal has a .12 at it's worse and .08 at it's best and it's still got several months till release I think it's going to be pretty solid for any game at 30fps. Also from what I understand they were using E3 hardware at the London event

Dev8 ing5250d ago

The only reason you'd need a 60 fpsec camera is if the action was too fast for a 30 fps camera to resolve. Clearly that isn't the case because the delay between input and response is 5 frames. The 5 frames at 30 frames per second = 5f/30fpsec = 1/6 sec = 0.167 sec.

How did you come up with the 0.150 sec? If input lag was that bad people would hate gaming. That is almost as bad as what natal was showing.

megacheak5249d ago

I do not think Killzone 2 a bad game, but it has a delay of input 5 - 6 frames. (As told Cueil)

You say - "If input lag was that bad people would hate gaming". But for some reason everyone is impressed by Killzone 2.

And honestly did not want to mention other games and compare competitors' platforms. But where no'll come - everywhere PS3 fans curse all that is connected with the xbox ...

Sarick5249d ago

I assume that a lot of them are 5ms to 10ms in range. The really goods ones are far below 4 ms latency.

With the response lag combined to this screen lag the difference can be amplified significantly. I would assume the average gamer would want to reduce as much latency as possible in their configurations just to have acceptable performance. I assume that if I combine the sum of all latency in a standard home setup it won't be acceptable with this level of lag.

hesido5249d ago

Killzone2's delay is on top of the delay caused by the sixaxis controller, which I'm guessing is only a few miliseconds (2-3??), so that latency is caused by the game software and not the peripheral input latency.

In this video, we cannot exactly know how much lag is caused by the game itself, and how much is caused by the peripheral input latency, but my guess is that, unlike Killzone 2, due to the simple nature of the application, the game delay should be not more than 1-2 frames., so Natal lag would be 3-4 frames. If we played Killzone 2 using natal, we'd certainly have even higher latencies, because it would react after the initial peripheral latency.

BTW, check out the gif I posted in my second comment in the thread, Sony's Wand has latency too..

OnlyOnN4G5249d ago (Edited 5249d ago )

There is no lag in the arc controller, just watch the below video and you can clearly see his movements are being picked up with 1:1 tracking, no input delay, in fact you can even pause the video whenever he moves the controller and you'll see it's exactly where its suppposed to be on the TV screen, no lag whatsoever, and the TV screen and his arm are in clear view of the camera unlike that gif you posted, where you can't see the tv screen clearly.


hesido5249d ago

Thanks for the heads-up.. That's clearly better than the developer videolog (although the videolog was after E3), it may be a problem with the TV set. Some TV's have ultra high latencies when post-processing are on (e.g. my friend's phillips has more than 10th of a second input latency when you turn on its advanced post-processing effects). I'll analyze that video also. Mind you that we should not be looking at the overlay video, the overlay video is in sync with any latency introduced beforehand.

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